#2

Wouldn't the state have to BUY this infrastructure from Disney and then fund its continued maintenance and updating?

The "get" for DeSantis and the butthurt Florida Republicans would be that Disney would now have to kowtow to THEM instead of unilaterally controlling their own independent district. And like a good mob boss, there would be mandatory tributes (new taxes) and bribes (political donations) demanded above and below the table moving forward.

Just more thugocracy from Florida's chief authoritarian kleptocrat.

From the comments, it's obvious that many have not considered the 360-degree view of Disney asking for and receiving the Reedy Creek legislation. Disney did the state of Florida and the-then sleepy town of Orlando a HUGE favor by taking on the entire expense of paying for their own infrastructure without charging taxpayers a penny.

Please consider the enormity of Disney's property, and consider that in the early years they would not have been contributing tax revenue to the degree they've grown to now. Orlando would have had to pay for all the improvements, fund the police and fire departments, pave hundreds of miles of roads, etc. even before Disney could open the first park. It's not like Disney has the authority to collect taxes within their district. The usual comparisons don't fit in this example. For a property as large as Disney, it makes perfect sense for them to control and maintain all aspects of its property -from security, safety, sanitation and upkeep - without having to coordinate with local and state governments at every turn nor seek funding for their internal needs from local taxpayers.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if The Villages has some sort of district like Disney does for many of the same reasons. Isn't it every righties dream not to have to deal with government for anything? Disney put their own money where their mouth was almost 6 decades ago and have done a pretty good job of creating a huge asset for the state of Florida and the local governments surrounding their district.

#14 POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2022-04-19 09:23 PM | REPLY | FLAGGED FUNNY BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Ignorant pantywaste ...

Re. post 14, the facts almost verbatim as I presented them:

So you all don't think that revocation of the special district wouldn't come with levying taxes on Disney to pay for their own infrastructure.

Disney already paid for their infrastructure, why would they want to pay for it again? That was the whole point of the District in the first place - Disney paid for what state and local governments couldn't afford to do for the entire enterprise to get up and running. And Disney pays $566 million in taxes to Florida annually already. You really think they want to pony up even more and then depend upon Florida to provide anything close to the same level of service?

And you think a government run by this clown is capable of meeting Disney's and its clients' needs? That's laughable.

5 years from now Floridians will be complaining about state revenues being down and taxes going up.

While blaming Haitians and Puerto Ricans for causing it.

I imagine Disney will pay more and get less, just like the rest of us.

Why should they when how they've run things for 50+ years works efficiently as it is.

Republicans are going to eff around and find out how powerful Disney and its shareholders actually are.

DeSantis and the GOP already gave Disney another $570 million in tax breaks over 10 years this session already, but they really want to upset the main apple cart?

DeathSantis will not be a snide moniker if he pushes Disney too hard, it will be the new state of his political career.

#45

As Yav said, there wouldn't be any of the other parks and attractions if Disney hadn't spent untold millions of their own money creating the physical and economic environment that everything else sprung up from - including non-entertainment industries who moved into the area because it made the region more desirable to workers.

Normally, I'd likely be against giving a private (now public) company this much civic power, but Disney took a great risk when they started to turn farmland/groves into the entertainment destination we now recognize. And Sitz, for the most part Disney only gained law enforcement control over their visitors - which is mainly crowd control and health emergency response related - but not local citizens that had no other option but to live under their auspices. Now that Disney has created communities on their property too, anyone moving there knows what they are getting into.

In my opinion, this has been one of the most fruitful public/private partnerships in America, and now simply for spite, vindictive politicians and their party want to upend it because the corporation stood up for the marginalized people the GOPers want to intentionally hurt.

While Disney has its own security forces, they really don't have a full-fledged police force like many seem to think.

At one time they did have some Disney employees who were authorized (and possibly deputized by the local sheriff's office) to enforce traffic violations, mostly speeding and running stop signs, in the municipalities, but after a small number of injuries during pursuits, this was mostly discontinued. Whether this policy could be reinstituted is a little bit up in the air. Actual law enforcement on the property is now conducted by the Orange County Sheriff's Department under contract by the municipalities, even in the portion of the property that is not in Orange County.

Penalties for violating park rules can include a Notice of Exclusion, meaning that you are on notice that you are not wanted on the property and any entry may be considered a criminal trespass. These are usually reserved for offenses that are either repeated or endangered the safety of the recipient, employees, or other guests.

"They wouldn't be here if it weren't for Disney." It begs the obvious question. If you are an early cause of growth, when does your special treatment expire? Do you get it forever, because Disney? Put an expiration date on it at least ffs.

Why? Disney directly contributes $566 million in taxes to Florida every year. Why should they give up the legal autonomy which they're contracted to have? Are they abusing the public trust in the way they run their business? Are they breaking any laws or not being held accountable to standards other companies are?

If DeSantis came out against private prisons, suddenly the leftists here would be in favor of them.

More confirmation that your mind is incapable of processing thoughts beyond two simple metrics.

My position has nothing to do with DeSantis per see, it has to do with both my historical understanding of why Disney has their district - and why it was needed - along with an objective cost/benefits analysis of its effects vis-a-vis taxpayers, outside businesses, and the millions now living in and paying taxes in the Odo metro area because Disney exists.

No one can point to a tangible reason that Disney should be stripped of its district today by showing empirically that doing so will make things better for the people of Florida fiscally or governmentally. People just don't like the idea that Disney has control over the infrastructure they built, created, paid for, and maintain without any direct funding from Florida taxpayers. Why is that?

#58

Again, a simpleton's exaggerated response to a unique situation.

First and foremost, you ignore how and why Disney built the infrastructure that the did which at that time did not include providing normal public services to outside residents unrelated to Disney itself. And most importantly, Disney started from scratch, but they only built what they did to support their business venture to generate profits from it, not because they thought that owning and providing governmental services was itself a profitable venture.

Where is there an analogous situation where a private company wants to build and maintain communities by sinking billions into physical infrastructure that won't turn a profit for decades if ever?

And for the record, do you like your cable tv service provider? That's exactly how cable tv was built out by giving one private company exclusive rights to territory. How's that model working today with our internet based world?

Public services are called public services for a reason.

You didn't build that. But Disney did?

On their own property which they paid for.

Do private companies own the ground under our cities and towns?

At what point are you going to argue that Disney should be it's own state or country?

Never. This just confirms how malinformed you are.

Disney created the physical necessities which allowed their business to grow with their corporate vision. They do not run a government to the degree most municipalities do, but they have the autonomy to control the growth and necessary functioning of what we erstwhile call 'public services' within the property that they own.

This is no different than when a builder builds a new subdivision.

Only if the builder also funds and builds the community a power plant, sanitation services including a sewage removal system and their own fire department and security force completely independent to any related services funded by taxpayers.

Would you support other organizations opting out of the collective and using their own resources for their private benefit as they see fit?

That isn't what happened. Disney didn't "opt-out" of anything, they built and paid for their own systems from scratch within the boundaries of their own property without using any taxpayer money or existent infrastructure.

For that, Disney was able to control the growth on their land without the need to go through elected bureaucrats or local government vis-a-vis zoning, but they still adhere to or exceed other public safety standards and health regulations.

And in Disney's case, the "public" is their business, so their services indeed serve the public's interests when visiting the Disney property.

When you try and educate the ignorant, they spit in your face and continue to offer up non-sequiturs not analogous to the facts of what's being discussed. First and foremost, Disney did not receive any "carveout." There are almost 2000 different "special districts" in Florida, all given that designation through the legislative process or executive decree.

More relevant discussion on Disney being stripped of their SD status:

Disney is pandering to it's more liberal customer base.

No, Disney responded to their own employees who were upset because the legislation would negatively affect their children and families and demanded that Disney do the right thing, which they then did.

Being concerned for how marginalized individuals are treated and targeted should not be a left/right issue. It's a right/wrong issue. The GOP intentionally tries to frame everything they're against as being left/right. The actual world doesn't work that way all the time.

I thought this law prohibited K-3 teachers from teaching certain things related to sexuality....correct?

I've stayed out of these discussions, and I'm not starting now. But I will answer this way: No, the legislation is far more sweeping and pervasive than your explanation, and it will very heavily negatively impact particularly those in the LBGQT community while potentially bankrupting teachers who'll be open to lawsuits from parents for simply doing their jobs.

IMO, that enforcement provision is the poison pill that will make more likely (if not guaranteed) that the courts will toss this law once it's challenged at that level.

I guess you've failed to notice that the SCOTUS has allowed these civil lawsuit laws brought by citizens against other citizens (as they relate to abortions) to stand (even though doing so stripped settled legal abortion law down to 6 weeks or less) and appears ready to rule in their favor once a case gets before them.

#151

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but in addition to the bonds, won't Florida's governments have to PAY Disney for their existent infrastructure before taking it over? They just can't take what Disney has built and paid for, can they? This isn't an imminent domain situation and even that would require negotiated compensation from the state to Disney for what they're taking over.

As I stated earlier, the Florida Republicans are getting ready to screw themselves and Florida taxpayers royally because they don't like a political stance that Disney took to assuage their employees and customers.

Back to this comment....you really think Disney supported this bill unknowing their employees would object then had to reverse their entire position on it after learning they objected?

Don't you think you're being a little naive here?

Not based on the chronology of events that I've read. At first, Disney didn't want to make any public pronouncement whatsoever. But under their current CEO, Disney has greatly expanded whole house inclusion and diversity. This is one of the things Republicans keep mentioning derisively as Disney's movies and shows have included LGBTQ characters and situations rather prominently which of course the GOP/conservatives abhor.

The employees threatened to strike if Disney didn't publicly follow in the footsteps they were already traveling down with their internal business decisions and marketing.

Of course at the end of the day, this is all market driven, I'm not saying that it was strictly moral. The world is diverse and Disney wants everyone to fill their coffers, not just a small cross section of bigots and regressives, but their initial silence was in placation of just those now screaming the loudest.

So far, the Republican Party has banned abortion, books, history lessons, and Disney, because they really, really, really hate cancel culture.

Brian Taylor Cohen

As is...this afternoon?

Couple hours ago, yes.

The bill's passage is a done deal.

Warm weather states across the country are likely putting together aggressive bids to try to steal Disney from the ingrates in Florida.

Unfortunately, I don't see any other state that has Florida's year-round weather advantage of being the farthest south and the ones along the Gulf or coast are all GOP-run as well as you mentioned.

Colorado has already made a pitch to have Disney move its headquarters to Denver.

Both Orange and Osceola both went for Biden. This is the ultimate power move by DeSantis LOL!!!!! They'll be shoveling that debt to kingdom come ROFL!!!

The new Republican Party campaign slogan: Vote GOP: Even though we don't care to actually legislate, we solemnly swear to amplify hate, spur insurrection and retaliate!

Laws shouldn't be written for a single company.

Leftists on record as being against equality before the law.

ROFLMAO! What an intellectually vacuous response, wholly disconnected from the express purposes and reasons special districts were created.

You're arguing that taxpayers should be upset/concerned that a private company received legislative approval to spend its own money and run its own services within its own property, not use taxpayer funded infrastructure, AND pay hundreds of millions in taxes, INCLUDING property taxes - when they don't use the government services property taxes fund.

Disney pays, taxpayers don't and Visitor thinks Disney is receiving special treatment that others don't. Tell you what, any company in Florida is free to request the same deal that Disney has but that line will be extremely short or non existent. No company would pay to replicate infrastructure when easy, affordable access to existent infrastructure is available.

Disney didn't extort control over something built by taxpayer funding, they built their own infrastructure from scratch with their own money. In return, the government allowed them to run what they created on their own property the way they want to within laws and regulations.

Where's the inequality, V? It's called a quid pro quo.

As NBC8 explained, "Unlike other theme parks in the state, when Disney wants to build a building, fill in a lake, or pave a road on their property, they don't have to seek permits or approval." The special status for Disney is not enjoyed by other Orlando attractions, either.

Disney is NOT just a "theme park" they're a 40 square mile, self-contained metroplex who BUILT and CONTROLLED all aspects of their own property which was developed BY THEM, FOR THEM at their expense - not the taxpayers, which is really the whole ballgame - with the expressed blessing of the state of Florida's legislature. Nothing that Disney has asked for nor done was outside of Florida law, and up until this moment there was not one single thing wrong with the arrangement but for Florida's GOP politicians getting butthurt because Disney had the audacity to publicly oppose their anti-LGBTQ legislation.

You think that is fine and dandy for the state to come in after 57 years and simply take over administrative control of Disney's own property because "other theme parks don't have special status." Well, while you're at it, why don't Florida's politicians take away MAGA-central "The Villages'" special status which allows them to do all the same things that Disney does?

Crickets. Hypocrisy thy name is Visitor.

Keep at it, Visitor.

You are kicking butt and taking names.

Compared to Visitor, I'm a 3-legged man in a butt kicking contest with the Black Knight after his earlier defeat.

I would be interested in reading a genuine response to your post.

Please, in 264 responses there isn't a germane and substantive one answering his questions to be found. And that's because there is absolutely no reason for the legislature to vote to rescind Disney's district because under Florida law only the district's homeowners can dissolve the district. So all of this is nothing more than political theater to highlight DeSantis' Nixonian pantomime as the Miami Herald calls his revenge tactics.

As it stands now, Disney runs their district at a loss of $5-$10 million annually, rolling it into their price of doing business. This red ink will be transfered to the counties thanks to DeSantis, so that means raising taxes. Disney already pays property taxes, so they can't just dun them for more. And don't forget, there are only 19 landowners in the district, so there aren't but a few handfuls of people to actually target. That's why the corporation foots the bill.

There's also at least $1 billion in debt that the counties would have to assume as well if they take over from Disney. And taxpayers would then be on the hook for all capital improvements within Disney's property too. All of this because Disney stood up for LBGTQ citizens and stood against the GOP's bigoted legislation.

So what argument is there that dissolving Disney's district benefits the taxpayers in Orange and Osceola counties?

Little thought experiment here, just imagine a future where the counties take over Disney's services:

Disney: Hey counties, a couple of our electric generators are at the life-end and we need new ones stat.

County commission/board: Well, that just isn't in our budget for this fiscal year...

Disney: (WTF?) Ah... you do understand that this isn't something we'd "like" this is something that is absolutely needed based on the timetable we gave you quarters ago. If our generators go, people can get hurt. You know, all these electric rides that we have where any power interruption would be fateful. We could have thousands of people distressed, creating a potential catastrophic situation!

County: Eh, it doesn't work that way Mr. Mousey Britches. You don't run the show anymore, we do ... and don't forget it.

Disney: A couple of our Emergency Response vehicles need replacing, they're falling apart ...

County: (cuts him off) Make do with what you have. They aren't in the budget until 4th quarter, just make it work.

Disney: You do understand that some of our guests might need these for emergency critical care, right, and if they're unavailable, people might die, then they'll sue us, not you, right?

County: Cost of doing business big boy.