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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, April 21, 2022

On Wednesday, the Florida Senate voted 23 to 16 to eliminate the Reedy Creek Improvement District, dealing a major blow to Disney and by extension, taxpayers in Central Florida. The district has about a billion dollars in outstanding bonds that need to be dealt with. That burden, as state lawmakers admitted, will fall on local taxpayers.

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"If Reedy Creek goes away, the $105 million it collects to operate services goes away," wrote Orange County Tax Collector Scott Randolph. "That doesn't just transfer to Orange County because it's an independent taxing district. However, Orange County then inherits all debt and obligations with no extra funds."

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Florida Men At Work.

#1 | Posted by shoeless at 2022-04-21 07:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

All so desantis can make a campaign commercial about how mean he is to gays.

If he's willing to cost florida $1 billion for a publicity stunt, imagine what he'd do as president.

#2 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-21 07:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Kill Big Bird
--GOP, 2012

Kill Mickey Mouse
--GOP, 2022

You've Come A Long Way, Baby!

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 07:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Next President of the United States right there!

#4 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 07:53 PM | Reply

Next President of the United States right there!

And also the last!

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 07:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#5
No they'll still keep the title President too much emotional investment to change it. Just voting will matter even less than now if we even get two choices to vote for.

#6 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2022-04-21 08:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I meant the end of the nation, not the end of the office.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 08:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@snoofy, the Dems can always secede again. I mean it wouldn't be the first times to do so. This time though ... we won't care.

#8 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:22 PM | Reply

"the Dems can always secede again"

Too late! The Republicans already have.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 08:24 PM | Reply

Next President of the United States right there!

#4 | Posted by Reginald

You can't wait to vote for a guy who'd blow a billion taxpayer dollars on shameless self promotion.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-21 08:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Weird, which state has seceded under Biden? Zero.

But again, the Dems are free to pack up and do your own thing. Just leave us the copy of the Constitution since the left isn't really a fan of it as is.

#11 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:26 PM | Reply

@Speaksoftly, he leveed the debt on Democrats who love taxes and spending. Both counties went for Biden heavily, I'm sure they won't mind. Just paying their fair share as ole Bernie says.

#12 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:27 PM | Reply

Republicans don't wave the US flag.
They wave the Trump flag.

Cops don't fly the US flag.
They fly the TBL gang colors.

You'll figure it out someday.
And when DeSantis announces a restructuring of The Union, you'll cheer.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 08:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Actual Fans of the Constitution are also Fans of Democracy.... which leaves out a great number of today's Republican party.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2022-04-21 08:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Poor snoofy, it's gonna be a long 10 years for you once we retake the House and quite possibly the Senate come November. But yes, DeSantis will be the President in 2024 and boy do I look forward to that day.

#15 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@Corky the US isn't a Democracy we are a Democratic Republic. So yes, your statement is very true. With that said, if you want pure Democracy try Ancient Greece. Both the Greeks and the modern Left also seem to love the kids so ...

#16 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:35 PM | Reply

@Speaksoftly, he leveed the debt on Democrats who love taxes and spending. Both counties went for Biden heavily, I'm sure they won't mind. Just paying their fair share as ole Bernie says.

#12 | Posted by Reginald

Oh so you're excited about voting for a guy who uses his power to punish people who didn't vote for him. Got it.

Have you considered moving to russia? Sounds like you'd love it there.

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-21 08:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Poor snoofy, it's gonna be a long 10 years for you"

Why only 10?

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 08:35 PM | Reply

"You'll figure it out someday."

LOL!!!

Highly unlikely.

#19 | Posted by Angrydad at 2022-04-21 08:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm also curious as to what kind of suffering you think I'll endure under a DeSantis regime.

Anything I need to pre-cry about now? Or will you only know what's over that hill once we crest it?

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 08:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@Snoofy why would there be any suffering? We'll get the border under control, fix the inflation mess that the Left finds a new excuse for about every 30 days. It's gonna be a great time for everyone.

#21 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:48 PM | Reply

@Snoofy you can also wear your mask too if you feel you still need it then. We don't care.

#22 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 08:49 PM | Reply

"We are mad and will use the gov. to attack you" is so dumb. Bullying is not leadership. Good ideas, planning for the future, etc... it seems folks forget living in bubbles.

#23 | Posted by Brennnn at 2022-04-21 09:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Anything by Reggie

You do know the difference between a political party and a political philosophy, right?
Anyone can be a Dem or a Pub.
Only a Con can be a Con or a Lib can be a Lib.
Confederates were Cons.

#24 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-04-21 09:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Poor snoofy, it's gonna be a long 10 years for you"

"@Snoofy why would there be any suffering?"

^
Is this one of those accounts that's run by committee?

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 09:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And I'm really not sure why anyone would consider acting like Trump to be a winning strategy. He squeaked by on a technicality in 2016 and lost in 2020.

#26 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-04-21 09:21 PM | Reply

@Snoofy no clue as to what you're talking about, but this is a one man one account show.

@TFDN what you're going to see with DeSantis will be similar to when Ronnie came into office. There's no way in Hell Biden gets re-elected and much like Carter refusing to bow out. There will be some challenger (Clinton has hinted at it) that will challenge him and tear the party apart. DeSantis gets in smooth sailing.

#27 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 09:29 PM | Reply

"@TFDN what you're going to see with DeSantis will be similar to when Ronnie came into office."

What's that mean, exactly?

Record high inflation, okay.
Mass Amnesty for illegals, gotta love it!
Can't really bust the unions, that's been done.

I guess you're excited about restarting the Cold War, a new SDI, and Mrs. DeSantis' astrologer navigating the Reykjavik Summit.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

TAX THE RICH !!

(Florida takes away special tax district.)

HE CAN'T DO THAT !!

2 faced...lying.....hypocrites.

#29 | Posted by Kempster at 2022-04-21 09:36 PM | Reply

TAX THE RICH !!

Doesn't mean only tax the rich people in two counties...

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 09:37 PM | Reply

DeSantis gets in smooth sailing.

#27 | Posted by Reginald

How does he get trump out of the picture? Promise to pardon all his crimes?

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-21 09:46 PM | Reply

I'm confused.

Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???

#32 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2022-04-21 09:46 PM | Reply

Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???

#32 | Posted by jamesgelliott

It was never a problem before when those huge corporations were agree to the republican agenda.

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-21 09:47 PM | Reply

"Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???"

Only if they wanted the billions annually that Disney World brings into the state.
If they didn't want that, they would have said NO.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???
#32 | Posted by jamesgelliott

That's not the point here.
The point is that it's not an officials job to use the power of government to perpetuate personal goals. I don't care if it's a cop pulling you over because they like your car, or this BS by DeSantis.

#35 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-04-21 09:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm confused.

Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???

You are confused. Go visit the thread about repealing the special districts. Even though the title speaks about taxing, that's a complete misnomer as it regards Disney. Long story short, the reason Disney has its status is because they choose to build, pay for, and maintain their own infrastructure, something that is normally paid for by resident taxpayers.

Disney said, let us have control over our own property and we won't charge taxpayers to fund our utilities, roads, fire protection and power grid. Disney still pays taxes to the governments in the counties they reside, but they don't ask anything of the county's taxpayers but for the ability to govern their own growth. And they lose $10-$15 million annually doing so. Now the counties will be responsible for paying these costs, not Disney.

The 40-square mile Disney property has 19 landowners of record which comprise the board of their district. They are the ONLY taxpayers affected by Disney's control and all of them are Disney placements. So Disney does not run a "government" like a regular city and they collect no taxes from the general public as a city/county. Disney built and paid for their own service infrastructure and now DeSantis is forcing the taxpayers to pay the bills, not Disney. Disney just loses control over their own property and will be forced to go through an elected bureaucracy heretofore they didn't.

#36 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-21 10:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Just leave us the copy of the Constitution since the left isn't really a fan of it as is.

#11 | Posted by Reginald

This from a DeSantis supporter.

Eat ----.

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2022-04-21 11:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Just leave us the copy of the Constitution since the left isn't really a fan of it as is."

He means the one before any of the Amendments outside the Bill of Rights were added.
No Thirteenth Amendment, No Fourteenth Amendment, No Fifteenth Amendment.
#MAGA

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-21 11:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Conservative Media Cheering DeSantis Crackdown on Disney Are Ignoring What a Catastrophe It Would Be for Florida

My sources ranged all across the political spectrum but universally expressed shock at DeSantis and his GOP compatriots mounting such a blatant assault on free speech. Many raised concerns about the thoughtless speed by which the bill moved forward, and the havoc they expected its unintended consequences to wreak in a state dependent on tourism revenues. "They're just making ---- up," was the blunt reaction from one Central Florida political insider.

www.mediaite.com

#39 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-04-21 11:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@JPW aww boohoo. I know it's tough on the Left right now. You hold the power, nothing of substance has really been accomplished, no one in the wings who can save the day and you're getting slaughtered in the polls. I'd be pretty upset too.

#40 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-21 11:54 PM | Reply

"There's no way in Hell Biden gets re-elected"

So? Can't Kamala Harris just send certain results back to Dem-friendly legislatures?

(You know, after California objects to other states' rights to certify their own elections....)

#41 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 12:07 AM | Reply

From Gal's link:

The 1967 state statute that created RCID granted the Walt Disney Company broad powers to develop and control the land they purchased to build projects that would eventually include some of the world's top tourist attractions like the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and Animal Kingdom, plus numerous Disney hotels, restaurants, and retail stores. It encompasses a roughly 25,000 acre (39 square miles) parcel southwest of Orlando, stretching over Orange and Osceola Counties.

Disney collects and remits sales taxes to both counties, as well as collecting Tourist Development Taxes from hotel guests, and RCID pays county property taxes (nearly $300 million from 2015 to 2020) as well as levying taxes on its own properties to cover needed expenditures for local government type functions like building permitting, fire and emergency medical services, a power plant, water and waste treatment, trash and recycling, and construction and maintenance of roadways and waterways. RCID demands a higher standard than the neighboring counties, resulting in immaculately maintained roadways (locals frequently joke about trying to get Disney to seize control of the unending I-4 construction), building codes that are state-of-the-art for hurricane protection, and significant resources devoted to environmental protection.

The bill essentially sets up a system of legislative blackmail with a short clause establishing that the included special districts would be "dissolved effective June 1, 2023" - in other words, after the upcoming midterm elections in which DeSantis and the Republican legislators sponsoring the bill are running for re-election and after the regular 2023 legislative session.

The legislature is "putting Disney on a leash," as one Florida attorney Board Certified in Local Government Law told me, "so they better do what Ron DeSantis says, they better give to the PACs Ron DeSantis says, or else." In his view, it was more egregious than immediately dissolving RCID, sending Disney the message that "if you do what we say [and stop criticizing HB 1557] then after session, we'll quietly let you come back."

The governor and his allies have characterized ending RCID as a justifiable blow against crony capitalism, but it's a far cry from the multimillion dollar incentives handed out to build sports stadiums, instead comprising a grant of interwoven powers and responsibilities that would be excruciatingly difficult to unwind, assuming such an effort survived the likely legal challenges.

DeSantis and the Florida Republicans are using naked extortion by using their political power to keep Disney at heel. Keep thinking that voters are alright with this when millions of Floridians are forced into paying higher taxes for that 'privilege.'

#42 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 12:12 AM | Reply

@Danforth If Biden runs for re-election it's not even going to be close. I wish you luck in your bid to get Dem friendly legislatures to overturn results. Because here's the problem ... R's control all of the following that would be in play for such a move ... PA, AZ, GA, VA, WI, and MI. Let me know how that works out for you ;D

#43 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-22 12:14 AM | Reply

#40 | POSTED BY REGINALD

The Dems are, yet again, picking up the piece from a Repub administration while being blamed for it.

It's the Repub's greatest hit played over and over again.

#44 | Posted by jpw at 2022-04-22 12:34 AM | Reply

@JPW oh really? Things were affordable under Trump. The Border was secure, Russia wasn't invading Ukraine (2 for 2 now under Democrats). Crime was down and I can go on and on. Quit running that old tired excuse of a line as the Democrats continue to whistle past the graveyard for the midterms.

#45 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-22 12:45 AM | Reply

Stop being a ------- ------ who uses temporal associations to form opinions.

I get it. You're a Repub so you're a simpleton loser.

Just try not to make it so obvious, mmmmmkay?

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2022-04-22 01:02 AM | Reply

"I wish you luck in your bid to get Dem friendly legislatures to overturn results."

I don't.

I never bought the Mike-Pence-can-overturn bs. My guess is neither did Kamala Harris.

"Because here's the problem ... R's control all of the following that would be in play for such a move"

You're pretending to know the lynchpin ahead of time. Did you call it as Georgia going for two Dem Senators in 2020?

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 01:08 AM | Reply

@JPW aww someone's a little hot under the collar. It's okay little guy no need to swear.

@Danforth to your first point, when the votes were tallied I didn't cling to the stupid belief the election would be overturned. I was one of the few on the right telling my friends to let it go and concentrate on the midterms. As for Georgia, I figured it would be lost due to Trump throwing a pity party post election and basically telegraphing to Republicans in GA to not show up and vote.

Personally, I was glad they won both seats because it would make it that much easier for R's to make their case in 2022. Best to take the loss and refocus. Turns out, I was correct in my thinking that the Dems would fail in spectacular fashion.

#48 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-22 01:18 AM | Reply

" I didn't cling to the stupid belief the election would be overturned. "

You'll just vote for the party who are, by and large, still claiming as much.

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 01:31 AM | Reply

#16 | POSTED BY REGINALD

Projecting your pedo-ness on others is... pretty disguising, really.

#50 | Posted by Corky at 2022-04-22 01:42 AM | Reply

@JPW aww someone's a little hot under the collar. It's okay little guy no need to swear.

No, you're just worthy of that type of response.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2022-04-22 01:43 AM | Reply

@Danforth no different than the left after 2016, so it's a moot point.

@Corky the left definitely has a significant number of Pedo's compared to the right. Heck, when St. Kyle Rittenhouse fired his gun and hit three leftists one was a child molester, the second beat women, and the third was a felon who somehow was in a possession of a firearm when he legally wasn't supposed to have one. Which pretty much so sums of the current makeup of Democratic voters these days.

@JPW as your side likes to always say to the right ... Cope. Cope very hard friend.

#52 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-22 02:28 AM | Reply

Reject, the leader of your party is 300 lb sack of----------.

During this period, Plaintiff was a minor of age 13 and
was legally incapable under New York law of consenting to sexual intercourse and the other
sexual contacts detailed herein. NY Penal L 130.05(3)(a).
Defendant Trump initiated sexual contact with Plaintiff at four different parties.
On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied Plaintiff
to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the
course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but
with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to Plaintiff's pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in
the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted. Exhs. A and
B.
11. Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were
she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse of her by Defendant Trump,
Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed. Exhs. A and B.

www.politico.com

#53 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2022-04-22 03:12 AM | Reply

@Rein I'm well aware of this claim, however this "suit" has been brought and withdrawn twice now. If it were actually true "Jame Doe" should have followed through with the accusation and not withdrawn the claim again Twice.

#54 | Posted by Reginald at 2022-04-22 03:19 AM | Reply

An ex-GOP staffer who helped design social media ads for Donald Trump's re-election campaign has been sentenced to more than 12 years in prison for receiving hundreds of child sexual abuse materials, including videos of babies being raped.

Ruben Verastigui, 29, reportedly posted a photograph of himself at the White House just two months before his arrest on child pornography offenses.
Verastigui, 29, was active in an online group with at least 18 members dedicated to trading child pornography and discussing child sexual abuse, according to the Department of Justice (DOJ). Verastigui shared child pornography videos with another member of the group and made numerous comments about sexually abusing children..

lawandcrime.com

The 300 lb sack of---------- hires the best people.

#55 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2022-04-22 03:26 AM | Reply

Factually ignorant poster like Reggie keep tut-tutting like decapitated chickens over something that's actually headed directly into Florida courtrooms because Florida's law is quite explicit - only the electors in the special district have the power to dissolve the district, the Legislature doesn't.

2021 Florida Statutes

Title XIIIPLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT

Chapter 189UNIFORM SPECIAL DISTRICT ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

SECTION 072Dissolution of an independent special district.

189.072Dissolution of an independent special district."

2)OTHER DISSOLUTIONS."
(a)In order for the Legislature to dissolve an active independent special district created and operating pursuant to a special act, the special act dissolving the active independent special district must be approved by a majority of the resident electors of the district or, for districts in which a majority of governing body members are elected by landowners, a majority of the landowners voting in the same manner by which the independent special district's governing body is elected.

So good luck fighting this statute in court, and I'm sure Florida's taxpayers will be thrilled that DeSantis and his stooges will cost them millions for lawyer fees in the coming months/years for the right of taking on billions in more debt and funding obligations that Disney used to pay for.

#56 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 08:49 AM | Reply

Link for above: m.flsenate.gov

#57 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:08 AM | Reply

#56 - that is one HUGE ray of HOPE, Tony. Thank you!

Now we need the Courts and the D.O.J. to end all the other laws the GOP has enacted that are so problematic.

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 09:20 AM | Reply

Re #58

Florida law dictates that special districts created by the legislature can only be dissolved with a majority vote of the district's landowners. For Reedy Creek, that's the Walt Disney Company. "Nothing is going to happen," said Jason Pizzo, a democrat who represents the state's 38th Senate district, during the special session Wednesday. "Everyone in this room knows this is not going to happen. I'm just tired of missing my kid's baseball games for stuff we know is not going to happen."

www.cnbc.com

#59 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:24 AM | Reply

There's a lot of misinformation and confusion about what the end of Disney's Reedy Creek district means for the company and for taxpayers.
Here's what I know, after talking to lobbyists, lawyers and tax officials:

twitter.com

#60 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-04-22 09:25 AM | Reply

Don't know how accurate it is, but from the above link:

10/ Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn't have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal.

11/ That doesn't appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.
Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers.

#61 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-04-22 09:34 AM | Reply

From #60

Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn't have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal.

That doesn't appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.
Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers.

The residents, by the way, had no say in this vote, no say in their property taxes going through the roof, and no desire to have their communities staring at financial ruin.

The insanity of what Florida is intentionally doing to its own taxpayers cannot be understated: Disney's "taxing" power is limited to ITSELF, ie. they tax themselves to pay for their own services. Once taken away, that money has to be replaced by the residents of the two counties affected, potentially raising their property taxes by as much as 25%.

Now we've seen it all - Republicans cheering on a huge tax increase so that they can pwn a "woke" company by removing its rights to pay for its own public services. Wow, the stupid really hurts here, "That's showing Disney who's boss, let's give them a billion dollars. Take that mouse-breath!"

#62 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Unbelievable. This is going to piss off a whole lot of people. I know I am.

#63 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 09:50 AM | Reply

Gal/Tony,

If Disney is getting a massive tax break from this, how do call that extortion?

#64 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 09:50 AM | Reply

how do call that extortion?

#64 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

DeSantis is punishing them for opposing him.

Come on, BILL. Have a brain.

#65 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 09:55 AM | Reply

If nothing else this should show you how serious middle America is becoming about gay indoctrination of their children.

The way I see it gays pushing for social normalization to accompany legal protections is harming the Democratic party and other issues democrats champion.

You can't change thousands of years of natural feelings.

#66 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 09:56 AM | Reply

If Disney is getting a massive tax break from this, how do call that extortion?

Because the dissolution doesn't go into effect until AFTER this year's election and next year's legislative session. In essence this will be used by DeSantis and the GOPers to force Disney to generously donate to their campaigns and never publicly cross their political agenda on hopes that they will amend the legislation into something more palatable for Disney moving forward. For Disney, this is simply about the ability to run its legal business model as its been run for 55 years without any deference to local governments and their bureaucracies and without burdening local taxpayers for the public services Disney provides for itself.

See this for an example of what Disney is trying to avoid.

#67 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:58 AM | Reply

If nothing else this should show you how serious middle America is becoming about gay indoctrination of their children.

#66 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

It shows me how eager you people are to burn witches, BILL.

It shows me that you, specifically, are dangerously delusional.

#68 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:01 AM | Reply

You can't change thousands of years of natural feelings.

#66 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-

Which didn't exist in, say, 100 CE.

#69 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:03 AM | Reply

gay indoctrination of their children.

#66 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Never seen it, never seen it, never seen it.

Never even heard of it, except out of the mouth of people like BILL.

#70 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:05 AM | Reply

Tony,

For some it is "simply about" Disney attacking parents rights to control normalization of topics they consider inappropriate.

That's how it sounds to me.

You can tell yourself it's not really about parents rights and make it about donations if that makes you feel better.

#71 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 10:06 AM | Reply

"gays pushing for social normalization to accompany legal protections is harming"

Yeah!

How DARE they expect equal treatment!?!

It's almost like they read The Constitution or something.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 10:08 AM | Reply

#61

I read the thread but I wonder if they experts quoted have read the actual founding document for the Reedy Creek District? It very explicitly outlines the purpose of the district and the elective process of his governing board and its adoption of the legislative mandate given them by the Florida legislature.

I know lawyers will always spin on their sophistry, but to this layperson, to say that the possibility the district wasn't properly electorally codified - ergo the express language dictating the only way special districts can be dissolved isn't operative - is laughable considering the copious details of almost every single factor and purpose behind its existence and operation documented and indexed at its legal inception.

#73 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 10:09 AM | Reply

"For some it is "simply about" Disney attacking parents rights to control normalization of topics they consider inappropriate."

For others, it's a reaction to being told they are "less than".

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 10:11 AM | Reply

You can tell yourself it's not really about parents rights and make it about donations if that makes you feel better.

You need to read a little better Bill. I precisely stated that controlling Disney's public statements was behind the effect to strip their status:

In essence this will be used by DeSantis and the GOPers to force Disney to generously donate to their campaigns and never publicly cross their political agenda on hopes that they will amend the legislation into something more palatable for Disney moving forward.
And since when do conservatives think that it's alright for politicians to use government's power to silence private business' 1st Amendment rights?

Cancel culture much?

#75 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 10:14 AM | Reply

Zed,

Gays are not witches.

Gays are not evil.

People using gays for political influence is evil. Liberals have been using gays for decades.

This is a case of parents not wanting topics that lack decorum exposed to their children.

Liberals in public schools have been pushing the envelope for years.

Parents are feeling motivated and empowered to take on liberals.

#76 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 10:15 AM | Reply

Special assessments are charges levied by local governments against real property to defray the costs of public work or improvements which benefit such property.

#77 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:15 AM | Reply

"Liberals have been using gays for decades."

Yeah, how cruel it was of Democrats to put judges on the bench who ruled on Oberkfell.

And what a "use"! All gays got out of it was equal marriage rights.

#78 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 10:18 AM | Reply

"Parents are feeling motivated and empowered to take on liberals."

You're talking for the guy in your mirror, not parents.

#79 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 10:19 AM | Reply

And Bill, let's be frank. Disney did not come out for sexualizing young children. They came out in opposition of the state's efforts to control simple age-appropriate references and conversations about relationship dynamics which don't demean nor demonize individuals whose identities fall outside the male/female couple dynamics. Disney is not trying to advocate for anything but helping children to understand human dynamics as they exist in the real world without prejudice in ways that don't ostracize or demonize children and their parents who fall outside the hetero mainstream.

How dare they!

#80 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 10:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Special assessments are charges levied by local governments against real property to defray the costs of public work or improvements which benefit such property.

Correct. Disney has(had) the ability to levy taxes on ITSELF to offset the costs of its own public services that it built, paid for and maintained up until now. Oh, but "they're getting special treatment" - to take the financial burden off the county's taxpayers.

#81 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 10:23 AM | Reply

Gays are not witches.

#76 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

The Right believes in witches, BILL. They believe in witches and hunting for witches. It is terrifying.

#82 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:23 AM | Reply

If Mr. DeSantis could burn someone at the stake and assure thereby that he would become president, that's what he would do.

Real monsters threatening to destroy fake monsters.

The fires are coming, BILL.

#83 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:26 AM | Reply

Oh lovely. Bill shows his bloviating self loathing again. Gays are not indoctrinating anyone. Get a clue dude.

#84 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-04-22 10:29 AM | Reply

The county has the ability to bill Disney through special assessments for improvements that benefit Disney without increasing any other taxpayer's burden. Only the ignorant would believe that debt run up by Disney would be transferred to other taxpayers and only liar would say it.

#85 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:37 AM | Reply

Only the ignorant would believe that debt run up by Disney would be transferred to other taxpayers and only liar would say it.

#85 | POSTED BY VISITOR

Only the ignorant would believe that Abbott would cost Texas four-billion dollars with his last border stunt and then threaten to do it immediately again because he was pissed about what a Mexican governor said about him.

#86 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:42 AM | Reply

Republicans don't even care about their debt or taxes going up if it's a Republican ------- things up. They'll just find some pathetic way to blame the hikes on the blue counties and not DeSantis.

Taxes and debt are issues that Republicans only pretend to care about when a Democrat is proposing something that will actually help regular people.

#87 | Posted by JOE at 2022-04-22 10:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#85 | POSTED BY VISITOR

You people are irrational and reactionary. DeSantis, Abbott, and Trump know you very well. That explains everything that they do.

#88 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:44 AM | Reply

Isn't Disney in Florida and the govenor DeSantis?

#89 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:44 AM | Reply

Isn't Disney in Florida and the govenor (sic) DeSantis?

#89 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

There's no difference between DeSantis, Abbott, or Trump if that's what you mean?

#90 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 10:47 AM | Reply

#85

Tell that to the Orange County Tax Collector you ignoramus:

Orange County Tax Collector Scott Randolph said "The moment that Reedy Creek doesn't exist is the moment that that those taxes don't exist," Randolph said. "Orange County can't just slap a new taxing district onto that area and recoup the money that was lost."

"I don't see how Orange County doesn't raise property taxes by 20% to 25%," Randolph said. "That's what [the county] would probably have to do to cover this financial situation."

www.wftv.com

So everyone is lying but you? How many times do you need to be told that you're ignorant of the details, yet you keep posting BS and act as though they're pearls of wisdom no one else has thought of.

They're not, they're ignorant BS that take away from others actually having informed conversations. Either post links to facts or keep your unsupported opinions to yourself and save us the bother of having to read such drivel.

#91 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 10:52 AM | Reply

The Disney flap must have touched a raw nerve. All the leftists defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters founded by a Nazi sympathizer.

#92 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:56 AM | Reply

All the leftists defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation

Defending them? Your party are the ------- giving Disney a massive tax break and $1B debt writeoff, courtesy of big government.

#93 | Posted by JOE at 2022-04-22 10:59 AM | Reply

If my tiny village of less than 10,000 found a way to bill me a special assessment for sidewalk repair and street resurfacing in front of my house, Florida will find a way to bill Disney.

It's misinformation at best and outright lying to say otherwise.

#94 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 11:00 AM | Reply

It's misinformation at best and outright lying to say otherwise.

Don't you know that it's both illegal and unconstitutional to create laws that only apply to single entities?

Again with the stupidity. The counties do not have the ability to force Disney to pay something that doesn't apply to ALL taxpayers within the counties. Disney already pays full property taxes even though they don't take a dime from any taxpayer outside their district.

You're just an ignoramus bent on trying to make your uneducated anecdotes true. They aren't. There is a reason you cannot find one single link to ever support what you say - There aren't any because what you say isn't factual nor true.

Link or stink you smelly bastard.

#95 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Who would have ever thought that the MAGATS would turn their rage spotlight onto Disney.

First it was Teachers and now Disney.

Disney!

No one is safe in America as long has they have any power. Who will they turn their fake plastic rage onto next?

When will they ever actually solve an actual problem that they themselves gdidn't create?

Reginald's sympathies for Dems trying to get actual problems solved in the face of Republicans obstruction is pathetic. What actual problems did Humpy Trumpy solve (that he did not create?) and do you really think that were Trumpy to ever gain power again (shudder) that the Dems would cooperate with his insanity?

Welcome to the New America in the (dis)Information Age.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-04-22 11:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Florida will find a way to bill Disney.

#94 | POSTED BY VISITOR

Meaning that DeSantis didn't have such in hand before he made this decision?

Here's a prediction: Disney's not going to be hurt in any of this, even if DeSantis has to overtly break laws on the books to get his revenge on them.

#97 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 11:56 AM | Reply

Tony: "Don't you know that it's both illegal and unconstitutional to create laws that only apply to single entities?"

No I don't because it isn't illegal. What do you think the current special status that Disney enjoys is? Also that's not what a special assessment is. With that one statement you have so many layers of lies and falsehoods, it's almost unparsable.

It seems now you're arguing against their special status since it applies only to Disney?

Are you a child, how can you not know what a special assessment is?

#98 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 12:04 PM | Reply

No I don't because it isn't illegal. What do you think the current special status that Disney enjoys is? Also that's not what a special assessment is. With that one statement you have so many layers of lies and falsehoods, it's almost unparsable.

Would you PLEASE stop with the stupidity? The word "nuance" doesn't mean replacing the old "ance," moron. There are 1844 special taxing districts in Florida. Disney did not get unique treatment idiot, there's a Florida statute which gives government the power to create them.

There is no Florida statute to allow counties to tax ONE INDIVIDUAL taxpayer differently than other taxpayers within the same jurisdiction.

And no, the special district is not the same as a special assessment. You're got it completely backward. The special district CAN assess a special assessment, but since it's dissolved, the counties have no such right. And you continue to miss this fact: Disney ALREADY PAYS complete property taxes to both counties! How can you assess them for what they already paid for - and want to continue to pay for - under the old agreement?

When you get out of your circular idiocy, let me know.

#99 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 12:19 PM | Reply

{sigh}

So much garbage and ignorance in post #98.
So much.

#100 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 12:20 PM | Reply

And just so you understand before you say something else stupid, the reason special districts can issue special assessments is because those voting members within the district have a say-so in such actions. They do not happen unilaterally, it's a democratic process with the district's governing board.

The county governments can't just issue assessments without the voter's input or outside the normal political process for raising revenue.

#101 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 12:23 PM | Reply

Only the ignorant would believe that Abbott would cost Texas four-billion dollars with his last border stunt and then threaten to do it immediately again because he was pissed about what a Mexican governor said about him.

#86 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2022-04-22 10:42 AM | REPLY

Yesterday you were arguing that it was 9 billion. Which isit?

#102 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-04-22 12:28 PM | Reply

Yesterday you were arguing that it was 9 billion. Which is it?

#102 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Tell you what: YOU say how much it was. Anxiously awaiting your reply.

#103 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 12:29 PM | Reply

There is no Florida statute to allow counties to tax ONE INDIVIDUAL taxpayer differently than other taxpayers within the same jurisdiction.

Maybe not, but Florida does allow special assessments. Which you already know and for some reason pretend don't exist.

#104 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 01:11 PM | Reply

Laura,

"Gays are not indoctrinating anyone."

Your lifestyle should not presented as "normal".

My lifestyle isn't "normal".

I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.

#105 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 01:13 PM | Reply

I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.

#105 | Posted by BillJohnson

How much do you think that was occurring?

Here's what happened - your stupid cult attempted a fascist coup on live tv and failed. They're about to go on trial for it. Elections are coming up. What else can they do besides make up the worst possible lie about their opponents - they want to pervert your kids!

Every time repubs want to distract from what they've done, they play "culture war."

#106 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-22 01:17 PM | Reply

Maybe not, but Florida does allow special assessments. Which you already know and for some reason pretend don't exist.

Go back and reread posts #99 and #100 as many times as necessary which expressly notes that "special assessments" can only be levied by "special districts". And can you articulate exactly for what reason Disney deserves to pay more taxes than they do already?

Florida is creating a fiscal problem that Disney has already absolved them of yet you want to punish Disney for a problem that Florida itself is creating for the counties.

Now, if you had two functioning brain cells, you might conjecture that Florida could amend the dissolution legislation and allow Disney to keep funding its own public services (I use the term as a catchall for the infrastructure and services that are normally funded through property taxes that Disney built and funds themselves) but lose other powers under the special district provisions, but you're too stupid to do that. What you keep advocating isn't the legal way it can be done under the Florida laws as they're currently written. The only thing both counties can do is raise taxes on all property owners to pay for the extra debt they have to assume if Disney is forced to turn over their responsibilities to the counties. There is no other fix and how can you assess Disney for what they already own and operate? What you're saying is the state is making Disney to stop paying for their own infrastructure and then tell the counties to make Disney pay for their own infrastructure ON TOP OF the full property taxes that they already pay!

Gawd you are so dense you're making black holes look like light sources.

#107 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 01:26 PM | Reply

When a city annexes a subdivision is it responsible for the mortgages on all the homes? No.
When a city annexes a subdivision and a home needs a new roof, does that become a debt of the city? No.
Are Tony's arguments specious, hypocritical and false? Yes.

#108 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Are Tony's arguments specious, hypocritical and false? Yes.

#108 | Posted by visitor_

*this post brought to you by the cult member who started calling everyone groomers as soon as he got his marching orders that this was their new election strategy.

#109 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-22 01:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"My lifestyle isn't "normal"."

???

You're a gay man who married a woman who you're afraid will steal your universal mail-in ballot to vote Dem. Of course your lifestyle isn't normal.

#110 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 01:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#108

Disney is not being annexed moron, they're already existent as property taxpayers on the rolls of both counties. The only thing that is changing is that the state is moving the responsibility of funding and running Disney's internal services from them to the counties.

Your analogies show that you do not understand the topic at all. It is not analogous to your examples.

As your hard head won't let sink in Disney already pays their property taxes to the counties, there is nothing to assess them for! Disney voluntarily OVERPAYS for its services because of the existence of their special district. Take away the district, and the district's costs and debts become the county's. The county cannot then force Disney to again pay more. It is illegal to overcharge any taxpayer beyond the rates paid by other taxpayers as it regards property.

There is nothing unique about Disney's property that legally justifies them being assessed at a higher rate than every other property tax payer in the two counties.

Unless you can theorize why Disney should be charged more. Balls in your court. Now stay true to your belief that Disney should pay the same as Universal and everyone else - which is what they already do.

#111 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 01:38 PM | Reply

Your lifestyle should not presented as "normal".
My lifestyle isn't "normal".
I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-04-22 01:13 PM | REPLY

Being LGBTQIA isn't a lifestyle. It's who we are at the core level. Why shouldn't that be celebrated as being normal?? Look I get it. You couldn't live your truth so you want others to be ashamed of who they are. It's plain ole ridiculous that in the 21st century that people like you want people to live in the shadows.

#112 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-04-22 01:39 PM | Reply

" Your lifestyle should not presented as "normal"."

Except you don't mean "normal", you mean "allowable".

#113 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 01:53 PM | Reply

#109

The man is just ignorant. He makes up ish and situations and claims that the facts proving him wrong don't exist. He assigns false positions and ignores documented evidence proving him wrong and operating from factual ignorance.

Here's his Sisyphean knot he's trapped himself into: Disney received a "special tax district" designation which allows the elected board within the district itself to democratically approve and set internal property tax rates - which in this case keeps those taxpayers outside Disney's property from having their taxes pay for Disney's services, while Disney still pays each county property taxes that help lower their costs for their county's taxpayers, keeping their taxes much lower than they would be if Disney didn't exist.

Now, the state wants to take away Disney's designation. That means each county must take over fiscal and physical responsibility for services inside Disney's property. Since Disney is no longer capable of raising taxes on itself, the county's taxpayers are forced to pick up the tab - which does include Disney, but now it also includes every taxpayer in both counties.

Numbnuts keeps trying to say that the counties can assess Disney for what Disney wants to pay but now can't because their ability to assess themselves is taken away. The counties cannot create a "special assessment" unilaterally, that is what the "special districts" were created to do by a democratic process involving those within its boundaries.

The only way a "special assessment" can be levied is through "special districts." Damn this boy is touched.

#114 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 01:53 PM | Reply

Visitor_ is only interested in this topic as it pertains to pwning the libs.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 01:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.
#105 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Even your own children?

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 02:01 PM | Reply

I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.
#105 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Would you hide it from your parents too?
I bet you have been your whole life.
That's why you have the beard.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 02:02 PM | Reply

TAX THE RICH !!
(Florida takes away special tax district.)
HE CAN'T DO THAT !!
2 faced...lying.....hypocrites.
#29 | POSTED BY KUMDUMPSTER

So you're saying that's happened by eliminating the taxes Disney was paying and passing it on to the people living in the community?

You don't consider Disney "Rich?"

If you ever get bold enough to post on this thread again. Perhaps you can further explain your failed attempt at trolling.

#118 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 02:06 PM | Reply

I wouldn't want either of our lives explained to elementary age children.
#105 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Your life would be best explained to a therapist.

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Visitor_ is only interested in this topic as it pertains to pwning the libs.

But they aren't, they're hurting every property taxpayer in two counties just to take away Disney's right to run their own business as they've been doing for 55 years.

This is wrong because doing so is not based on any benefit to Florida's taxpayers, in fact it's just the opposite. It harms taxpayers, and it penalizes Disney for their right to advocate on behalf of its own employees.

This shouldn't be a left/right issue, it's a right/wrong issue and I stand on the side of what's right. The status quo hurts no one, changing it will negatively affect millions. And governmental power should not be used vindictively to intentionally harm a company or person because of anger over how they exercised their constitutional rights. End of story.

#120 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 02:10 PM | Reply

Laura,
"Gays are not indoctrinating anyone."
Your lifestyle should not presented as "normal".

Fkkk off you judgmental piece of shht. You're literally wasting you life pretending to be something you're not, in order to fit into a club you don't belong to.

You haven't a clue what normal is. You've deluded yourself into believing by denying who you are you're somehow better than others.

You're not.

You're a coward who gave up. You're a quitter. A liar and a loser. A failure.

Your opinions are garbage. You are garbage.

You're the results of indoctrination.

A pathetic beta ---- who hates his life, who hates himself.

My greatest hope is you're a shut in, separated from the rest of society, so your mental disease can't spread to others.

#121 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 02:15 PM | Reply

@snoofy, the Dems can always secede again. I mean it wouldn't be the first times to do so. This time though ... we won't care.

#8 | POSTED BY REGINALD AT 2022-04-21 08:22 PM

Dear Reg,

The Democrats and Republicans switched sides over the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Then Nixon's "Southern Strategy" sealed the deal. Please try to keep up; you're embarrassing your fellow Republicans.

John47

#122 | Posted by john47 at 2022-04-22 02:15 PM | Reply

I mean, Visitor_ aims to pwn the libs by getting them On The Record supporting Corporate Welfare, or what have you.

If DeSantis hurts some people who need hurting along the way, that's gravy. But not what he cares about.

The only sensible Republican voice in this entire discussion is Eberly. To his credit, Eberly admits under-estimating just how far the Repubilcans would go.. YET AGAIN! But it's okay, they don't have that George W. Bush "Fool Me Once" thing in Oklahoma, that's only in Texas and Tennessee.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 02:18 PM | Reply

This shouldn't be a left/right issue, it's a right/wrong issue

Democrats have almost always been on the right side of history. The side that stands up for others. Fights for justice and equality.

Republicans continue to prove they're only interested in subjugation, and control.

#124 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 02:19 PM | Reply

you're embarrassing your fellow Republicans.

I doubt Republican are self conscious enough to realize they're embarrassing themselves.

#125 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 02:21 PM | Reply

I mean, Visitor_ aims to pwn the libs by getting them On The Record supporting Corporate Welfare, or what have you.

He's too stupid to understand that in this interest it's completely the opposite. The Disney Corporation - within the construct of their special district - isn't taking money from government, it voluntarily agreed to pay for 100% of the construction, maintenance, and recurring costs of the services local/state governments provide to taxpayers within its own property's boundaries.

In return all the state gave Disney is the right to run its business as it sees fit within existing laws and regulatory standards while Disney still pays property taxes to the counties without taking money from outside taxpayers for itself.

#126 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 02:32 PM | Reply

In this instance...

#127 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 02:32 PM | Reply

Question for the conservatives/Republicans who support DeSantis and the Florida legislature; I posted it on a similar thread yesterday but the thread went down not long after. I am curious about the apparent cheerful, even eager, acceptance by R's of DeSantis and the Florida legislature using their political power to financially punish those who speak out against them. Are you really OK with this on a moral and ethical level? Do you think it's acceptable for government to use its power, fiscal or otherwise, to silence dissent? How does this action by DeSantis and the Florida legislature fit within the American ideas of free speech, freedom to speak out against the government, and equal protection, whether it's a corporation or individual? Truly interested in an intelligent defense of this action.

#128 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-04-22 03:45 PM | Reply

My other question is for Tony or anyone else knowledgeable about the local legal situation. Even though the state is repealing Disney's special district status, is there anything preventing Disney from entering into direct agreements with the surrounding counties, to essentially not pay locally assessed property or other taxes, and continue providing their own utilities and services? If nothing specifically prevents this, I would think such an agreement would make sense, in that Disney could continue operating as they have been, and the surrounding counties would not be crushed with a massive influx of utility and service liability.

#129 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-04-22 03:52 PM | Reply

El,

Without getting specific, was everything Disney was trying to do legal and ethical?

It's the role of government to protect people from corporations who abuse their power.

#130 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 04:02 PM | Reply

"It's the role of government to protect people from corporations who abuse their power."

All the evidence shows this is a corporation being abused by a government.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

That's why we have courts.

Let them figure it out.

Apparently Floridans were not happy with the situation.

#132 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 04:12 PM | Reply

Even though the state is repealing Disney's special district status, is there anything preventing Disney from entering into direct agreements with the surrounding counties, to essentially not pay locally assessed property or other taxes, and continue providing their own utilities and services?

Yes there is. The counties could grant Disney a "special district" status. That is Florida's vehicle for doing what you posit and what Visitor cannot get through his thick skull. That's why these districts exist to facilitate unique taxing circumstances for defined entities or geographical areas.

Funny, the solution to this issue is for Florida not to rescind the one already granted Disney by the legislature back in 1965.

#133 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 04:13 PM | Reply

"Snoofy,
That's why we have courts.
Let them figure it out."

Courts were fine with Jim Crow.
Your comment is idiotic.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 04:14 PM | Reply

When the Disney's streets become county property and the remaining debt is assumed by the taxpayer at large, won't they have be open to public?

#135 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 04:15 PM | Reply

Without getting specific, was everything Disney was trying to do legal and ethical?

Damn Bill, do you think I just make up the links to the Florida statutes for ----- and giggles?

CHAPTER 189 - UNIFORM SPECIAL DISTRICT ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

189.011Statement of legislative purpose and intent.

(1)It is the intent of the Legislature through the adoption of this chapter to provide general provisions for the definition, creation, and operation of special districts. It is the specific intent of the Legislature that dependent special districts shall be created at the prerogative of the counties and municipalities and that independent special districts shall only be created by legislative authorization as provided herein.

(2)The Legislature finds that special districts serve a necessary and useful function by providing services to residents and property in the state. The Legislature finds further that special districts operate to serve a public purpose and that this is best secured by certain minimum standards of accountability designed to inform the public and appropriate local general-purpose governments of the status and activities of special districts. It is the intent of the Legislature that this public trust be secured by requiring each special district in the state to register and report its financial and other activities. The Legislature further finds that failure of a special district to comply with the minimum disclosure requirements set forth in this chapter may result in action against the special district.

(3)Realizing that special districts are created to serve special purposes, the Legislature intends through the adoption of this chapter that special districts cooperate and coordinate their activities with the units of general-purpose local government in which they are located. The reporting requirements set forth in this chapter shall be the minimum level of cooperation necessary to provide services to the citizens of this state in an efficient and equitable fashion.

www.leg.state.fl.us

The Florida legislature gave Disney - and 1843 other entities - special district status. Of course it's legal, it's a state construct.

#136 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 04:18 PM | Reply

When the Disney's streets become county property and the remaining debt is assumed by the taxpayer at large, won't they have be open to public?

Did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?

Private property doesn't become public accessible just because the residents use public services. Universal Studios has streets on their property too, right? Can you just use them without buying an admission ticket?

#137 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 04:22 PM | Reply

#130 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Thank you for the response. If you're talking about the actions which drew the ire of DeSantis and the FL legislature, my understanding is Disney made a public statement against HB 1557 and halted political donations in FL. Now, the statement carried little weight, as the law had already been passed. What DeSantis and the FL legislature are punishing (or trying to convince the public they are punishing) Disney for doing is halting the flow of green into Florida political coffers. So, if Citizens United tells us that corporations are people and can exercise their free speech by donating to political campaigns, shouldn't corporations also be able to exercise their free speech by stopping donations?

#138 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-04-22 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#133 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

That's rather what I thought. I'm not sure how Florida's statutes compare to the rest of the nation, but in my state it's not at all uncommon for smaller municipalities or large businesses to enter into contracts with the surrounding county(ies) to provide their own utilities and services and avoid taxation for those specific services. My company does this, as we provide for our own waste and disposal, and we maintain the roads from our property to the nearest state highway accesses. So, essentially, DeSantis and the FL legislature have made much ado about nothing, merely to grandstand for their base against an imaginary foe, and strike a quixotic blow against the liberal agenda, whatever the kcuf that is.

#139 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-04-22 04:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#139

Bingo!

I went to Breitbart just to see if there was anything about Kevin McCarthy and immediately saw a story about Disney claiming that the left wants to let them avoid paying their fair share of taxes and support their corporate grooming of pre-school kids.

All the right sees is that DeSantis and Florida's GOP punishing Disney for their public stance against that bill, while they ignorantly misunderstand that the "punishment" will harm local taxpayers far more than it will Disney, and that Disney entered into the agreement in order to NOT foist their ambitious and expensive growth plans upon the relatively few tax payers - compared to today - of Orange and Osceola counties in 1967.

Disney went above and beyond to entirely pay their way in return for the ability to map, control, and pay for the whole functioning and maintenance of their physical infrastructure and service delivery systems within its own property. The right wants people to believe that Disney has been freeloading off Florida's taxpayers and wants to groom young children by exposing them to sexually inappropriate information and content as a matter of their "deviant-liberal-woke" corporate policy.

#140 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 05:04 PM | Reply

And which of the other major Florida theme parks have the Special District privilege that the Mouse House has?
How about finally leveling the playing field

#141 | Posted by TheMajorKong at 2022-04-22 05:05 PM | Reply

And which of the other major Florida theme parks have the Special District privilege that the Mouse House has?
How about finally leveling the playing field

The playing field is tilted because Disney pays MORE for services than do the other parks!

Disney built and pays for their own services and infrastructure, taxpayers never have. And on top, Disney still pays the counties property tax like everybody else, so Disney actually helps keep taxes LOWER for everyone else.

Changing Disney's status is going to COST FLORIDIANS MORE MONEY, not punish Disney financially. Disney will make even more money, they'll just no longer have independent control of the growth and maintenance inside its own property.

#142 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 05:12 PM | Reply

which of the other major Florida theme parks have the Special District privilege

The district wasn't given for just a "theme park," it was granted for a 40 square mile, self contained community that facilitated the building of roads, buildings, all their utility systems, waste removal and recycling, a water purification plant, and a scientific environmental monitoring and protection unit, all on their own dime without a cent from local taxpayers. That relationship continues today - until the GOP just voted to end it and place Disney's expenses and obligations upon taxpayers.

None of the other local entertainment venues play on the same field as Disney because they didn't need to build their own service delivery systems in order to open for business.

#143 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 05:25 PM | Reply

#141 | POSTED BY THEMAJORKONG

So if a company is successful the government is obligated to take regulatory action and eliminate their comparative advantage over their competitors? Is government regulation of business now part of the Republican platform?

Not that regulation is what DeSantis's action was about anyway. Still waiting on a moral and ethical defense of DeSantis' punitive action against a dissenter.

#144 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-04-22 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

eliminate their comparative advantage over their competitors

I disagree that the "district" gives Disney any functional advantage over the other parks, and you're buying into the mistaken belief that Disney's deal can be distilled down to how profitably their parks operate.

At the beginning, Disney didn't have any advantage, they had tremendous obstacles to overcome in creating a liveable environment out of barren swamp and farmland. The sunk tens of millions into the project with no certain guarantee that they'd be able to duplicate their success in California.

Disney has one and only one unique advantage over their contemporary competitors, but it's one they invested in and built on their own dime, which has placed uncountable billions of tax dollars into Florida's coffers over the last 50 years. That advantage is the right of self determination on their own property in the form of an elected board of directors seated under Florida's laws who manage aspects of their compound that normally would fall upon local governments and service providers.

I don't get why people are so upset about Disney paying their own way without taxpayer money for the right of running their expansive business without having to engage local government for oversight. If Disney was breaking the law or operating recklessly, I could understand the angst, but Disney not only has higher safety standards than the regulations require, they also pay property taxes to the counties even though the counties don't deliver services to Disney outside of law enforcement.

Disney pays more, and people don't understand that the GOP's legislation makes them stop, and shifts their debt service and maintenance expense responsibilities to all the taxpayers in two counties.

#145 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 06:02 PM | Reply

Awesome. I needed you to own up that to demonstrate how ridiculous it would be for the county at large to assume debt that benefits only Disney. Especially if it's Disney's private property.

Me: When the Disney's streets become county property and the remaining debt is assumed by the taxpayer at large, won't they have be open to public?

Tony: Private property doesn't become public accessible just because the residents use public services. Universal Studios has streets on their property too, right? Can you just use them without buying an admission ticket?

#146 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 06:21 PM | Reply

Remember the gun-brandishing Missouri lawyer couple that Trump creamed his jeans over?

They lived on a private street.

Are they next, Republicans?

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 06:28 PM | Reply

so when does the trash, sewage, and anarchy start at Disney World.
either Mickey should move out or let it go to ----, but quick.

#148 | Posted by ichiro at 2022-04-22 06:28 PM | Reply

Disney should just turn it into a toxic waste dump.

It kinda already is, when you think about it.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 06:28 PM | Reply

btw, BOYCOTT PLANTATION SHUTTERS
youtu.be

#150 | Posted by ichiro at 2022-04-22 06:32 PM | Reply

I needed you to own up that to demonstrate how ridiculous it would be for the county at large to assume debt that benefits only Disney.

I just can't ... You have got to be the most unnuanced thinker the world has ever produced. Florida's law as it regards the dissolution of special districts MANDATES that the overseeing government take over the infrastructure formerly operated under the special district agreement.

For the last ------- time: At present, Disney is paying more than any other taxpayer for the services they receive because they don't get a dime of tax money outside of the "taxes" they charge themselves within the district! They foot 100% of their own bill. Once the district is dissolved, the counties in which Disney's property resides take over all responsibilities for delivering these services TO DISNEY, and Disney stops paying the extra tax they charged themselves and have no fiscal responsibility for the infrastructure management they are forced to turn over to the counties.

Special districts ARE the government's way to get specific entities with unique situations to fund their needs outside of the usual taxpayer supported methods. FFS, read post #136.

#151 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 07:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#151 You're doing god's work explaining all of this, but it's a waste of your time. These people are so cucked by fascism they will literally defend anything and never acknowledge reality.

#152 | Posted by JOE at 2022-04-22 07:15 PM | Reply

Read this and learn something:

End of Reedy Creek: Disney won't pay more taxes, but you will

One of the biggest myths circulating on the internet is that the end of Reedy Creek will finally force Disney to pay its fair share of taxes, boosting the economies of Florida and the counties its resorts are located in.

Let's dispel that rumor right now: not only is it wrong, it's the opposite that will take effect.

This much is true: the Reedy Creek Improvement District is an extension of Disney that shields the company from oversight others have. The theme park operator taxes itself and gives itself permission to build whatever, wherever so long as it follows building codes and other state and federal laws.

What Reedy Creek isn't is a replacement for the counties it exists in. Disney still pays the same property taxes levied by the government and the school district that every other landowner pays. Orange County, for example, collected $40 million from the House of Mouse in 2021, Tax Collector Scott Randolph (D) said.

So, how does Reedy Creek operate its own fire and sewer departments? The special tax district status allows Disney to levy an additional tax on itself to pay for those services. The tax, amounting to $105 million per year, is ILLEGAL anywhere else in the county, along with the additional $58 million per year the company taxes itself to pay off Reedy Creek's bond debt.

When the district is dismantled on June 1, 2023, Orange County will begin paying for those services and paying off the debt, without that special status in place.

"The moment that Reedy Creek doesn't exist is the moment that that those taxes don't exist," Randolph said. "Orange County can't just slap a new taxing district onto that area and recoup the money that was lost."

Effectively, Disney's loss of control also hands it a $163 million per year tax break. Orange and Osceola County taxpayers will shoulder the hit alone, leaving both counties staring at financial ruin.

Dissolving Disney's special district gives them a $163 million a year tax cut. Is that what you want Visitor?

#153 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 07:18 PM | Reply

#152

I know, but other people reading this probably don't know the truth and hopefully this information will help them understand what DeSantis is doing to the taxpayers in Florida against their own interests. He doesn't GAF who it hurts so long as he gets airtime owning the woke libs and their grooming agenda.

#154 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 07:22 PM | Reply

This is wild ...

Disney special status was a libertarian dream.

Now the Progressives are arguing in favor of it and the Conservatives are arguing against it.

#--------------------.

#155 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-04-22 07:29 PM | Reply

#153 cont.

State law prevents the counties from raising sales taxes or impact fees to cover the costs. They also must tax all areas of the county equally, meaning whatever they enact must apply to everyone.

That leaves one avenue: property taxes, of which Orange County collects approximately $600 million per year right now.

"I don't see how Orange County doesn't raise property taxes by 20% to 25%," Randolph said. "That's what [the county] would probably have to do to cover this financial situation."

Again, your fantasy about taxing Disney differently than other taxpayers is ILLEGAL (that you disputed and called me a liar) under Florida law. It cannot be legally done; no special assessments, no nothing that doesn't apply all to all taxpayers equally.

No misinformation, no spin, just the documented truth. Try it sometimes instead of pulling fecal matter out of your backside and calling it knowledge.

#156 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 07:53 PM | Reply

Tony,

"Disney will make even more money"

If people still go.

#157 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 08:47 PM | Reply

Tony,

Based on your posts people probably assumed Disney was a safe bet to pressure thinking Desantis wouldn't go through with it.

Hell...he might just get elected President after all this.

#158 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 08:50 PM | Reply

If people still go.

LMFAO!

You are one delusion little poster.

#159 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 08:52 PM | Reply

Hell...he might just get elected President after all this.

He might - and the United States will get what it deserves if he is.
He's an authoritarian that would blossom into a full fascist dictator if he was elected to President.

#160 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 08:54 PM | Reply

Oh Disney world has no problems getting people to go to their theme parks. Don't you worry your little head about that Bill Johnson. They may even increase their attendance numbers after this.

#161 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-04-22 08:59 PM | Reply

@#158 ... he might just get elected President after all this. ...

I also see that possibility.

But...

Please explain why a wanna-be dictator would be good for the United States as its President.

(and please, no "my side won." Tell me why a possible Pres DeSantis would be good for the United States.)

You're up.

#162 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-04-22 09:00 PM | Reply

Hell...he might just get elected President after all this.

Which is DeSantis' ultimate endgame. Why do you think that he's allowing the canard to fly that he's making Disney pay their fair share by dissolving their district when the actual result is that Disney will gain a $163 million tax cut and shift over a $1 billion of debt liability to Florida taxpayers just for the sake of his revenge in taking away Disney's authority to control their own property?

#163 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:05 PM | Reply

Tony,

"just for the sake of his revenge"

He's not doing this alone you know.

#164 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 09:19 PM | Reply

Interesting thread:

Grosjean v American Press Co.

In 1934, Gov Huey Long passed a 2% gross receipts tax with the express purpose of punishing newspapers critical of him. In 1936, SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional, in a landmark 1st Amendment case.

It was also, notably, a landmark corporate rights case, establishing that corporations had 1st Amendment rights as an extension to that of their owners.

twitter.com

#165 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-04-22 09:21 PM | Reply

@#164 ... He's not doing this alone you know. ...

Are you saying that he is part of a conspiracy to kill Democracy in the United States?

Jus' askin'



#166 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-04-22 09:24 PM | Reply

He's not doing this alone you know.

Take that to mean the Florida Republicans' revenge, not just DeSantis'.

#167 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 09:25 PM | Reply

Yav,

Who isn't going to be angry at Disney after all this?

#168 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-22 09:27 PM | Reply

@#168 ... Who isn't going to be angry at Disney after all this? ...

Why should anyone be angry at Disney?

Jus' askin'

You're up.

#169 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-04-22 09:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Who isn't going to be angry at Disney after all this?

#168 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

No one. What a weird idea.

#170 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 09:33 PM | Reply

Who isn't going to be angry at Disney after all this?
POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-04-22 09:27 PM |

Why are you blaming the wrong party in this?? This is solely on the Republicans and DeSantis for this. NOT Disney world.

#171 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-04-22 09:34 PM | Reply

Who in their right mind would be angry at Disney?
I'm not, that's for sure.
I just booked a high end vacation at Disney.

If you're mad at Disney you have brain damage.

#172 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-22 09:36 PM | Reply

I do think that one or two Disney employees will be ambushed by Trump-Putin fascists for looking like pedophiles.

#173 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 09:36 PM | Reply

Who isn't going to be angry at Disney after all this?

#168 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

We don't all see monsters because some sociopathic Republican pol says there be monsters.

Remember what I told you about burnings? Bet on it. If you don't participate, you'll be defending.

#174 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-22 09:40 PM | Reply

Why are you blaming the wrong party in this?

Are you kidding me?

BillJohnson is a self loathing homosexual who married a woman and is 100% intent on forcing all homosexuals to live horrible lives. Like he chooses to.

He was the most outspoken critic of marriage equality.

He's who "homosexuality is a choice" moron will point to as "proof."

#175 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 09:50 PM | Reply

Allowing kids to be comfortable being openly homosexual as teenagers allows them to meet other teenagers who are homosexual. Allowing them to grow up with healthy self identities.

It help heterosexuals kids and teenagers to be more tolerant and accepting of homosexual people and of the LGBT community.

It also prevents predators from being able to exploit homosexuals teenagers who feel isolated and alone in the world.

#176 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 09:55 PM | Reply

You can't change thousands of years of natural feelings.
#66 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

JFC you're such a bigot.

#177 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-04-22 10:00 PM | Reply

#92 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Lies.

Why do you bother?

#178 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-04-22 10:04 PM | Reply

You can't change thousands of years of natural feelings.
#66 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Didn't you?

Aren't you the gay man who has only had sex with one woman for the past several decades?

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 10:16 PM | Reply

One would think the prospect of a yearly 163 million dollar windfall and off loading a billion dollar debt should cause the stock price to increase. There must be some negative to this for Disney or they would have initiated this action themselves.

#180 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:43 PM | Reply

#178 RSTYBEACH11 You're right not ALL leftists, just MOST of them are defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters.

#181 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 10:51 PM | Reply

#180 Imagine that, investors getting skittish about a company that can't even tell its gay employees they support them without their government attacking them and using them as a culture war obsession.

Thanks for pointing out that Disney is suffering damages though. Since the pure economics of this bill are 100% in Disney's favor, it's helpful for them to establish damages in other ways when they sue your fascist -------- cult leader in training.

#182 | Posted by JOE at 2022-04-22 10:51 PM | Reply

Disney leaving Florida would be 100x bigger than McDonald's leaving Russia.

So I'm kind of hoping it happens.

I don't even like Disney but I much prefer Capitalism to Statism.

And it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone that Republicans are metastasizing into Totalitarians.

#183 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-22 10:58 PM | Reply

There must be some negative to this for Disney

You've been told the negative multiple times: Disney loses their autonomy - the very reason they've paid more for 55 years. For Disney, their own freedom to conduct business as they see fit is worth the extra expense.

#184 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 11:04 PM | Reply

for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters.

#181 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Sounds like slander to me. But I am sure that even if it was it wouldn't bother you to say such a thing anyway.

#185 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-04-22 11:04 PM | Reply

defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters.

Will you ever get it through your skull that Disney does not receive a tax "break" because of their district, they take on more tax "liability" because of their district status instead?

I wish righties would acknowledge the difference between paying more taxes and then being "punished" into paying less taxes. Geesh.

If you want Disney to pay MORE in taxes, leave the district intact.
If you want Disney to pay LESS in taxes, dissolve the district status.

#186 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 11:10 PM | Reply

Aren't you the gay man who has only had sex with one woman for the past several decades?
#179 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You think they have sex?

Pretty sure it's a 1940s, separated twin beds, situation.

Full pajamas. Long underwear.

#187 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-22 11:17 PM | Reply

"defending tax breaks"

Tax breaks?!? Not in this equation.

What kind of Republican Math are you employing?

#188 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 11:22 PM | Reply

You think they have sex?
Pretty sure it's a 1940s, separated twin beds, situation.
Full pajamas. Long underwear.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2022-04-22 11:17 PM | REPLY

ROFLMAO that is hilarious.

#189 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-04-22 11:27 PM | Reply

Full pajamas. Long underwear.

With buttoned trap doors ...

#190 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-22 11:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Reedy Creek Improvement District, enacted in 1967 to entice Disney to build a theme park 20 miles south of Orlando, saves the company millions of dollars annually in fees and taxes, experts estimate.

www.nytimes.com

#191 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-22 11:54 PM | Reply

#191
I don't have a NYT subscription. Could you please C&P as much of the article as possible? Or at the least, your salient section? Thanks in advance.

#192 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 11:58 PM | Reply

^btw, Visitor, I think you're right. I just want to see how the came up with their specific numbers.

Again, thanks.

#193 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-22 11:59 PM | Reply

#193

Danforth,

There's nothing more to post. It's just an unsubstantiated, unattributed paragraph in a story that goes on to explain that Disney generates hundreds of millions in taxes annually for Florida.

There are no numbers or estimates tied to the allegation whatsoever. It's truly poor journalism because there's nothing factual backing up the statement.

The comment completely decontextualizes the truth: Disney indeed "saves" money on fees and taxes that would be paid to the counties for services that it pays 100% for itself. And Disney charges itself higher taxes than the counties are able to.

#194 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 12:06 AM | Reply

#193 cont.

Excuse me, I did find more relevant information in V's link:

But the special district's primary value to Disney is not financial; it is about control.

Reedy Creek gives Disney considerable sway over the planning and permitting process for construction on its vast property, including road building. Reedy Creek also levies taxes on Disney to pay for the resort's own fire and medical response battalions, among other services. Disney World even generates some of its own electricity through Reedy Creek.

"The impact on Disney is more symbolic than real money," Steven Cahall, a Wells Fargo analyst, said in an email, "though political theater is never great for stock sentiment."

The designation has been a critical tool for Disney in developing the resort, which includes six theme parks; a sprawling outdoor shopping mall; a 220-acre basketball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, baseball and competitive cheer complex; and 18 Disney-owned hotels with 24,000 rooms. Disney World has a bus fleet that rivals that of St. Louis.

In 2021, Disney World paid more than $780 million in state and local taxes, according to a Disney disclosure.

Disney World straddles two counties, Orange and Osceola, which would be required under state law to step in and provide a version of the services currently handled by Reedy Creek, almost certainly leading to increased taxes for their residents. Orange County's tax collector, Scott Randolph, has estimated that residents would see property taxes climb as much as 20 percent. Reedy Creek has an annual budget of $355 million, according to public records. It carries $977 million in debt, which would also be transferred to the counties.

www.nytimes.com

Boy, that certainly puts things in a different light than Visitor's self-serving snippet. What an honest contributor he isn't.

#195 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 12:14 AM | Reply

"There are no numbers or estimates tied to the allegation whatsoever. It's truly poor journalism because there's nothing factual backing up the statement."

Okay.

Please link the article so I can do my own analysis. Thanks in advance.

#196 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-23 12:15 AM | Reply

The Reedy Creek Improvement District, enacted in 1967 to entice Disney to build a theme park 20 miles south of Orlando, saves the company millions of dollars annually in fees and taxes, experts estimate.

Reedy Creek can also provide Disney with financing options. A few years ago, for instance, when Disney wanted to build a road interchange near its Hollywood Studios park at Disney World, it had Reedy Creek issue bonds to cover the cost. (In contrast, in the 1990s, when Disney needed municipal infrastructure in Anaheim, Calif., to develop its California Adventure theme park, the company had to persuade Anaheim to issue the bonds.)

Place this post before the text in 195 and you have the article in order until the point I stopped.

#197 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 12:47 AM | Reply

Tony: "Boy, that certainly puts things in a different light than Visitor's self-serving snippet. What an honest contributor he isn't."

I linked the article. There are fair use rules for massive copy'n'pastes.

#198 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-04-23 09:30 AM | Reply

What Tony is saying is Disney has been paying an extra $163 million a year in taxes (and has been *lobbying* to pay this money for decades) b/c they just want to.

And now they are going to get a free ride, and are upset about it.

What I see in the change is Disney now needs to follow every other company to get roads and streets built and repaired. They had a corporate libertarians dream, and the GOP took it away.

In 5ys, Disney's streets, and gutters will look like the rest of America's roads.

Its hilarious the pro-government extremists are fighting for the Corporate Libertarian Utopia, and the conservatives are taking it away.

If it saves so much money, and so great, why can't pro-government extremists support Oil companies which need roads to be built, get the same Special District?

BTW: this article is probably a Disney planted article and argument.

This whole thing is hilarious.

#199 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-04-23 10:05 AM | Reply

This whole thing is hilarious.

#199 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Yes, you are. Bragging about how Florida will now let everything in Orlando go to hell.

Can't imagine what that will do to Florida tourism. Well, actually I can.

#200 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-23 10:16 AM | Reply

#199 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT AT

Once again I'm impressed with how nasty you Trump-Putin fascists are.

When you're not here, are you out murdering oligarchs and their families and pregnant wives?

#201 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-23 10:19 AM | Reply

For years and years we've read you SCREAMING.......STOP CORPORATE WELFARE....MAKE THE "FILTH" PAY MORE TAXES....TAX THE RICH !!

then when a "woke" corporation has exactly that done to it because they support adults talking to other people's young children !! about

-------- and its the usual turn around BS.

its's OH NO....THAT'S UN-AMERICAN AND blah blah blah-bs bs bs bs bs.

you asked for this very thing for years and now you got it and it's nothing but whiny ass ----- babies.

#202 | Posted by Kempster at 2022-04-23 10:35 AM | Reply

Trump-Putin fascists

#201 | Posted by Zed

leftists definitions are ----.

#203 | Posted by Kempster at 2022-04-23 10:36 AM | Reply

"Disney is learning that they're a guest in this state. We have given them special privileges for 55 years and it's time for them to

remember that we are not California and we are not interested in their California values."

Randy Fine
FL state rep.

#204 | Posted by Kempster at 2022-04-23 10:57 AM | Reply

203 | POSTED BY KEMPSTER

If you people don't want to be described as Trump-Putin fascists, change your behavior.

It's not name-calling. It's a description. "Nazis" fits quite as well.

#205 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-23 10:58 AM | Reply

"Disney is learning that they're a guest in this state. We have given them special privileges for 55 years and it's time for them to
remember that we are not California and we are not interested in their California values."

This is so stupid. Disney is not hurt and will not be hurt. "Florida Values"? Give us a break. You fascists never knew that you hated Mickey Mouse until Sunshine State Fuhrer told you so.

#206 | Posted by Zed at 2022-04-23 11:00 AM | Reply

"then when a "woke" corporation has exactly that done to it because they support adults talking to other people's young children !! about
--------"

^
How long until one of these crazies shoots up Disney World?

#207 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-23 11:05 AM | Reply

#178 RSTYBEACH11 You're right not ALL leftists, just MOST of them are defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters.
#181 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

^
How long until one of these crazies shoots up Disney World?

#208 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-04-23 11:09 AM | Reply

" linked the article."

It's behind a paywall.

"There are fair use rules for massive copy'n'pastes.""

Just C&P the salient part(s).

#209 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-04-23 11:26 AM | Reply

I linked the article.

Yes, but you posted one unsubstantiated sentence which leaves its reader with an incomplete understanding of the full context of the actual facts articulated right afterward in the article itself.

And you did it on purpose to mislead readers into perhaps thinking there was substantial backing for that assertion in the article when in fact there is no one word of factual support for the supposed tax and fee savings that Disney allegedly realized when compared to the tens of millions of dollars in excess taxation and costs that it voluntarily pays in order to have its own autonomy.

And the bleating morons above continue with the canard that the district is a deal that saves Disney money when anyone with eyes can read the facts (and the most relevant quote that you left out of your C&P - that the deal is about autonomy more than money) that Disney's deal positively serves both itself and the taxpayers in both counties and taking it away will add financial burden to those counties that they will be forced to pass on to all taxpayers because of Florida's law.

For God's sake people, Disney built a freaking interstate interchange and paid for it themselves by issuing bonds. It would have cost taxpayers tens of millions. And for this Disney is being labeled a tax scofflaw by the ignorati? This is circular firing squad level misjudgment and misrepresentation on the GOP's part.

#210 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 11:58 AM | Reply

Clown,

Weekly...not bad for a guy in his 60's.

Usually Saturday mornings.

Today is Saturday.

Yes...

#211 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-23 12:12 PM | Reply

When a bond is issued it has a revenue source hooked to it that has to be sufficient to provide the cash flow necessary to pay the bond off.
Whatever government entity is, or becomes, responsible for paying off the bond also receives the revenue source(taxes) that provides the $$s to make the payments required by the bond.
That is the law, any other story is political double talk BS.

#212 | Posted by TheMajorKong at 2022-04-23 12:20 PM | Reply

That is the law, any other story is political double talk BS.

It is not the law as it regards the dissolution of a special taxing district under Florida law. The bond is secured by the fact that the Reedy Creek District taxes ITSELF to pay off the bondholders. Once the District is dissolved, the debt is transferred to the taxpayers of the governments who assume said obligations, namely the two counties in which Disney's property resides.

With the dissolution of the district, the counties are legally banned from charging Disney higher tax rates than other county taxpayers to pay the bond debt or the ongoing costs for the services, maintenance and operation responsibilities for the physical infrastructure they'll take over from Disney. Read that as many times as it takes to sink in. All of these details are linked to the source of the facts in posts above.

This is what you don't get: Disney voluntarily overtaxed itself within its own district so that these costs would NOT be borne by other taxpayers. Under Florida law, only in special districts is this type of taxation legal. Eliminate the district and the counties have no other recourse but to increase taxes on everyone to fund that debt.

You have no idea what you're talking about in this regards and its precisely why Disney required their district in the first place. The district didn't allow Disney to escape tax responsibility, it allowed them to over tax themselves while paying 100% for all their own services costs yet still pay full property taxes to the counties.

#213 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 01:48 PM | Reply

I've been to Disney World a few times. Enjoyed myself. Great vacation, especially with young kids. On the edge of affordable for most families, I think, but if you go during off season, you can really get a deal and much less of a crowd.
I can only imagine that the results of this will impact the cost of attending DW, probably not the foreign crowd, but certainly domestic visitors.
I would imagine it will also have an impact on the quality of the experience, IDK how to conceptually that though.

Seems to me that a state that relies on tourists shouldn't target their biggest tourist attraction.

Oh well.

#214 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-04-23 02:02 PM | Reply

Tony's got it correct.
That was confirmed by the Orange County Tax Collector on television last night.
It's also the law in the State of Florida.

Also I'd like to point out that Universal Studios has two special districts.
DeSantis' law doesn't affect them. And again, there are over 1,800 special districts in Florida alone.

To be honest I expect Disney will not fight this. They're winning in this fiasco. Why?
The hundreds of millions in obligations is no longer theirs to worry about. That falls to Orange and Osecola Counties.
It also will hit Universal, Marriott, and Hilton because they are the largest property owners in Orange/Osceola Counties.
They will see their taxes increase 20%.
Meanwhile Disney's own taxes will go down.

Yep. I'm betting Disney is likely thinking that the special district was a good deal decades ago, but if the State of Florida wants to take on the costs and debt, that'll be just fine, thank you very much.

#215 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-23 02:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Remember when Republicans "hated" Cancel Culture?

Gracie was crying for weeks about some racist books no one was reading not being published anymore.

But should Disney express concern about a law passed in Florida.

They're all for it.

#216 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-23 02:38 PM | Reply

Seems to me that a state that relies on tourists shouldn't target their biggest tourist attraction.

Republicans will gladly kill the golden goose.

#217 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-23 02:42 PM | Reply

Note: DeSantis and the Florida GOP just targeted all the theme parks and all tourism in Central Florida by raising taxes on all of them by 20%.

In addition to that, no company, no developer, is going to believe the State of Florida when it comes to incentives like creating a special district. That ship has sailed, thanks to the GOP.

#218 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-23 04:17 PM | Reply

Note: DeSantis and the Florida GOP just targeted all the theme parks and all tourism in Central Florida by raising taxes on all of them by 20%.

With every single penny of the extra tax money going to pay for Disney's internal expenses.

That's showing 'em who's boss, right Florida GOP idiots?

#219 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 04:32 PM | Reply

I've never been a fan of Disney's treatment of their lower-paid Florida employees compared to those in California. For decades, those in California made more money than those in Florida. Disney was renown for not paying anywhere close to a living wage to a majority of its workers while making billions in profits and paying healthy dividends to its shareholders. I'm not familiar with that relationship today, but that aside, I used to live in metro Orlando for a couple years in the early 1990s as the area was continually growing from the foundation created by Disney settling there in 1965.

I compared Disney's seeming disengagement from the general Orlando community compared to the largest employers where I am from - Indianapolis - actively supporting community growth through philanthropy and business/state partnerships which fostered the construction of public works that brought benefits to the entire region.

But then I learned about the Reedy Creek Tax District and I learned that instead of being in a position where Disney owed their host area, instead they built and paid for everything within their boundaries without transferring any of those costs to the taxpayers of Orange and Osceola counties. They did it by using the authority the Florida legislature gave them through Florida's special district laws to levy even more taxes upon themselves for the ability to maintain complete operational control of everything within its property boundaries, not just the theme parks. And today's reality is that the tourism juggernaut Disney started now generates more than $5 billion in taxes annually for the counties and state - the equivalent of a tax saving for each O'do household of $5685 a year.

Why any rational politician would want to upset this relationship only proves how depraved and power-mad the Governor and his political minions actually are, readily willing to upend a 55 year old operational agreement, foist unneeded debt upon taxpayers, give Disney a $163 million tax cut and relieve them of almost $1 billion in bond obligations now to be paid for by taxpayers.

I never want to hear again that it's the Democrats pushing culture wars and identity politics. The cultural warriors trying to take all of us back to the 16th Century are the Republicans, operating as the true American Taliban whenever they have the unilateral controls of government.

#220 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-04-23 05:03 PM | Reply

Tony,

"I never want to hear again that it's the Democrats pushing culture wars and identity politics."

Why not?

Will you say the same to Democrats when they complain about culture wars?

Much like you I am a little astounded Florida Republicans went through with it.

I am thinking they must have felt overpowered by Disney and the gay lobby, and felt they had no choice if they wanted to preserve the Parental Rights in Education bill, to take such drastic measures.

#221 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-04-23 05:20 PM | Reply

they must have felt overpowered by Disney and the gay lobby,

All you post are asinine theories and outright lies.

Anyone with any sense of self awareness would be embarrassed to constantly post the tripe you do.

#222 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-04-23 05:54 PM | Reply

Much like you I am a little astounded Florida Republicans went through with it.

I am thinking they must have felt overpowered by Disney and the gay lobby, and felt they had no choice if they wanted to preserve the Parental Rights in Education bill, to take such drastic measures.

#221 | Posted by BillJohnson

Republicans attempted a fascist coup because a con man told them to.

Why would anything they do surprise you after that?

#223 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-23 06:05 PM | Reply

This isn't about kids or parents or schools. This is about needing an issue to distract from their fascist coup attempt.

#224 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-04-23 06:06 PM | Reply

No K-3 student is being taught anything to do with sex or gender.
It
is
not
happening.

It
never
happened.

That's a lie put in the law, deliberately, to deflect from the rest of the law and so that if anyone speaks out against the law then proponents will yell that you're for K-3 being groomed. It's so disgusting, perverse, cynical, and sick.

Being able to be who you are is all anyone wants.
It's just that some don't believe that right is for anyone but them.

Too many republicans believe the State has the right to determine who someone is and to punish those who disagree or who don't comply.
Republicans like Bill Johnson.

#225 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-23 06:41 PM | Reply

This is about needing an issue to distract from their fascist coup attempt.

This is fascism being implemented.

#226 | Posted by YAV at 2022-04-23 06:42 PM | Reply

Other than the tax issues, which have been well discussed, doesn't this open up Disney to more state and county regulation? There could be great inconvenience to Disney from building inspectors, health and agriculture inspectors, planning and building commissions,among anything the statecan dream up

#227 | Posted by Charliecharles at 2022-04-23 06:56 PM | Reply

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