I'm confused.

Huge corporations SHOULD be able to create their own tax laws and govern themselves???

You are confused. Go visit the thread about repealing the special districts. Even though the title speaks about taxing, that's a complete misnomer as it regards Disney. Long story short, the reason Disney has its status is because they choose to build, pay for, and maintain their own infrastructure, something that is normally paid for by resident taxpayers.

Disney said, let us have control over our own property and we won't charge taxpayers to fund our utilities, roads, fire protection and power grid. Disney still pays taxes to the governments in the counties they reside, but they don't ask anything of the county's taxpayers but for the ability to govern their own growth. And they lose $10-$15 million annually doing so. Now the counties will be responsible for paying these costs, not Disney.

The 40-square mile Disney property has 19 landowners of record which comprise the board of their district. They are the ONLY taxpayers affected by Disney's control and all of them are Disney placements. So Disney does not run a "government" like a regular city and they collect no taxes from the general public as a city/county. Disney built and paid for their own service infrastructure and now DeSantis is forcing the taxpayers to pay the bills, not Disney. Disney just loses control over their own property and will be forced to go through an elected bureaucracy heretofore they didn't.

From Gal's link:

Factually ignorant poster like Reggie keep tut-tutting like decapitated chickens over something that's actually headed directly into Florida courtrooms because Florida's law is quite explicit - only the electors in the special district have the power to dissolve the district, the Legislature doesn't.

2021 Florida Statutes

Title XIIIPLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT

Chapter 189UNIFORM SPECIAL DISTRICT ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

SECTION 072Dissolution of an independent special district.

189.072Dissolution of an independent special district."

2)OTHER DISSOLUTIONS."
(a)In order for the Legislature to dissolve an active independent special district created and operating pursuant to a special act, the special act dissolving the active independent special district must be approved by a majority of the resident electors of the district or, for districts in which a majority of governing body members are elected by landowners, a majority of the landowners voting in the same manner by which the independent special district's governing body is elected.

Re #58

From #60

Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn't have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal.

That doesn't appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.
Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers.

The residents, by the way, had no say in this vote, no say in their property taxes going through the roof, and no desire to have their communities staring at financial ruin.

Now we've seen it all - Republicans cheering on a huge tax increase so that they can pwn a "woke" company by removing its rights to pay for its own public services. Wow, the stupid really hurts here, "That's showing Disney who's boss, let's give them a billion dollars. Take that mouse-breath!"

If Disney is getting a massive tax break from this, how do call that extortion?

Because the dissolution doesn't go into effect until AFTER this year's election and next year's legislative session. In essence this will be used by DeSantis and the GOPers to force Disney to generously donate to their campaigns and never publicly cross their political agenda on hopes that they will amend the legislation into something more palatable for Disney moving forward. For Disney, this is simply about the ability to run its legal business model as its been run for 55 years without any deference to local governments and their bureaucracies and without burdening local taxpayers for the public services Disney provides for itself.

#61

You can tell yourself it's not really about parents rights and make it about donations if that makes you feel better.

You need to read a little better Bill. I precisely stated that controlling Disney's public statements was behind the effect to strip their status:

In essence this will be used by DeSantis and the GOPers to force Disney to generously donate to their campaigns and never publicly cross their political agenda on hopes that they will amend the legislation into something more palatable for Disney moving forward.

Cancel culture much?

And Bill, let's be frank. Disney did not come out for sexualizing young children. They came out in opposition of the state's efforts to control simple age-appropriate references and conversations about relationship dynamics which don't demean nor demonize individuals whose identities fall outside the male/female couple dynamics. Disney is not trying to advocate for anything but helping children to understand human dynamics as they exist in the real world without prejudice in ways that don't ostracize or demonize children and their parents who fall outside the hetero mainstream.

How dare they!

Special assessments are charges levied by local governments against real property to defray the costs of public work or improvements which benefit such property.

Correct. Disney has(had) the ability to levy taxes on ITSELF to offset the costs of its own public services that it built, paid for and maintained up until now. Oh, but "they're getting special treatment" - to take the financial burden off the county's taxpayers.

#85

Tell that to the Orange County Tax Collector you ignoramus:

It's misinformation at best and outright lying to say otherwise.

Don't you know that it's both illegal and unconstitutional to create laws that only apply to single entities?

Again with the stupidity. The counties do not have the ability to force Disney to pay something that doesn't apply to ALL taxpayers within the counties. Disney already pays full property taxes even though they don't take a dime from any taxpayer outside their district.

You're just an ignoramus bent on trying to make your uneducated anecdotes true. They aren't. There is a reason you cannot find one single link to ever support what you say - There aren't any because what you say isn't factual nor true.

Link or stink you smelly bastard.

No I don't because it isn't illegal. What do you think the current special status that Disney enjoys is? Also that's not what a special assessment is. With that one statement you have so many layers of lies and falsehoods, it's almost unparsable.

Would you PLEASE stop with the stupidity? The word "nuance" doesn't mean replacing the old "ance," moron. There are 1844 special taxing districts in Florida. Disney did not get unique treatment idiot, there's a Florida statute which gives government the power to create them.

There is no Florida statute to allow counties to tax ONE INDIVIDUAL taxpayer differently than other taxpayers within the same jurisdiction.

And no, the special district is not the same as a special assessment. You're got it completely backward. The special district CAN assess a special assessment, but since it's dissolved, the counties have no such right. And you continue to miss this fact: Disney ALREADY PAYS complete property taxes to both counties! How can you assess them for what they already paid for - and want to continue to pay for - under the old agreement?

When you get out of your circular idiocy, let me know.

And just so you understand before you say something else stupid, the reason special districts can issue special assessments is because those voting members within the district have a say-so in such actions. They do not happen unilaterally, it's a democratic process with the district's governing board.

The county governments can't just issue assessments without the voter's input or outside the normal political process for raising revenue.

Maybe not, but Florida does allow special assessments. Which you already know and for some reason pretend don't exist.

Go back and reread posts #99 and #100 as many times as necessary which expressly notes that "special assessments" can only be levied by "special districts". And can you articulate exactly for what reason Disney deserves to pay more taxes than they do already?

Florida is creating a fiscal problem that Disney has already absolved them of yet you want to punish Disney for a problem that Florida itself is creating for the counties.

Now, if you had two functioning brain cells, you might conjecture that Florida could amend the dissolution legislation and allow Disney to keep funding its own public services (I use the term as a catchall for the infrastructure and services that are normally funded through property taxes that Disney built and funds themselves) but lose other powers under the special district provisions, but you're too stupid to do that. What you keep advocating isn't the legal way it can be done under the Florida laws as they're currently written. The only thing both counties can do is raise taxes on all property owners to pay for the extra debt they have to assume if Disney is forced to turn over their responsibilities to the counties. There is no other fix and how can you assess Disney for what they already own and operate? What you're saying is the state is making Disney to stop paying for their own infrastructure and then tell the counties to make Disney pay for their own infrastructure ON TOP OF the full property taxes that they already pay!

Gawd you are so dense you're making black holes look like light sources.

#108

Disney is not being annexed moron, they're already existent as property taxpayers on the rolls of both counties. The only thing that is changing is that the state is moving the responsibility of funding and running Disney's internal services from them to the counties.

Your analogies show that you do not understand the topic at all. It is not analogous to your examples.

As your hard head won't let sink in Disney already pays their property taxes to the counties, there is nothing to assess them for! Disney voluntarily OVERPAYS for its services because of the existence of their special district. Take away the district, and the district's costs and debts become the county's. The county cannot then force Disney to again pay more. It is illegal to overcharge any taxpayer beyond the rates paid by other taxpayers as it regards property.

There is nothing unique about Disney's property that legally justifies them being assessed at a higher rate than every other property tax payer in the two counties.

Unless you can theorize why Disney should be charged more. Balls in your court. Now stay true to your belief that Disney should pay the same as Universal and everyone else - which is what they already do.

#109

The man is just ignorant. He makes up ish and situations and claims that the facts proving him wrong don't exist. He assigns false positions and ignores documented evidence proving him wrong and operating from factual ignorance.

Here's his Sisyphean knot he's trapped himself into: Disney received a "special tax district" designation which allows the elected board within the district itself to democratically approve and set internal property tax rates - which in this case keeps those taxpayers outside Disney's property from having their taxes pay for Disney's services, while Disney still pays each county property taxes that help lower their costs for their county's taxpayers, keeping their taxes much lower than they would be if Disney didn't exist.

Now, the state wants to take away Disney's designation. That means each county must take over fiscal and physical responsibility for services inside Disney's property. Since Disney is no longer capable of raising taxes on itself, the county's taxpayers are forced to pick up the tab - which does include Disney, but now it also includes every taxpayer in both counties.

Numbnuts keeps trying to say that the counties can assess Disney for what Disney wants to pay but now can't because their ability to assess themselves is taken away. The counties cannot create a "special assessment" unilaterally, that is what the "special districts" were created to do by a democratic process involving those within its boundaries.

The only way a "special assessment" can be levied is through "special districts." Damn this boy is touched.

Visitor_ is only interested in this topic as it pertains to pwning the libs.

But they aren't, they're hurting every property taxpayer in two counties just to take away Disney's right to run their own business as they've been doing for 55 years.

This is wrong because doing so is not based on any benefit to Florida's taxpayers, in fact it's just the opposite. It harms taxpayers, and it penalizes Disney for their right to advocate on behalf of its own employees.

This shouldn't be a left/right issue, it's a right/wrong issue and I stand on the side of what's right. The status quo hurts no one, changing it will negatively affect millions. And governmental power should not be used vindictively to intentionally harm a company or person because of anger over how they exercised their constitutional rights. End of story.

I mean, Visitor_ aims to pwn the libs by getting them On The Record supporting Corporate Welfare, or what have you.

He's too stupid to understand that in this interest it's completely the opposite. The Disney Corporation - within the construct of their special district - isn't taking money from government, it voluntarily agreed to pay for 100% of the construction, maintenance, and recurring costs of the services local/state governments provide to taxpayers within its own property's boundaries.

In return all the state gave Disney is the right to run its business as it sees fit within existing laws and regulatory standards while Disney still pays property taxes to the counties without taking money from outside taxpayers for itself.

In this instance...

Even though the state is repealing Disney's special district status, is there anything preventing Disney from entering into direct agreements with the surrounding counties, to essentially not pay locally assessed property or other taxes, and continue providing their own utilities and services?

Without getting specific, was everything Disney was trying to do legal and ethical?

Damn Bill, do you think I just make up the links to the Florida statutes for ----- and giggles?

When the Disney's streets become county property and the remaining debt is assumed by the taxpayer at large, won't they have be open to public?

Did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?

Private property doesn't become public accessible just because the residents use public services. Universal Studios has streets on their property too, right? Can you just use them without buying an admission ticket?

#139

Bingo!

I went to Breitbart just to see if there was anything about Kevin McCarthy and immediately saw a story about Disney claiming that the left wants to let them avoid paying their fair share of taxes and support their corporate grooming of pre-school kids.

All the right sees is that DeSantis and Florida's GOP punishing Disney for their public stance against that bill, while they ignorantly misunderstand that the "punishment" will harm local taxpayers far more than it will Disney, and that Disney entered into the agreement in order to NOT foist their ambitious and expensive growth plans upon the relatively few tax payers - compared to today - of Orange and Osceola counties in 1967.

Disney went above and beyond to entirely pay their way in return for the ability to map, control, and pay for the whole functioning and maintenance of their physical infrastructure and service delivery systems within its own property. The right wants people to believe that Disney has been freeloading off Florida's taxpayers and wants to groom young children by exposing them to sexually inappropriate information and content as a matter of their "deviant-liberal-woke" corporate policy.

And which of the other major Florida theme parks have the Special District privilege that the Mouse House has?
How about finally leveling the playing field

The playing field is tilted because Disney pays MORE for services than do the other parks!

Disney built and pays for their own services and infrastructure, taxpayers never have. And on top, Disney still pays the counties property tax like everybody else, so Disney actually helps keep taxes LOWER for everyone else.

Changing Disney's status is going to COST FLORIDIANS MORE MONEY, not punish Disney financially. Disney will make even more money, they'll just no longer have independent control of the growth and maintenance inside its own property.

which of the other major Florida theme parks have the Special District privilege

The district wasn't given for just a "theme park," it was granted for a 40 square mile, self contained community that facilitated the building of roads, buildings, all their utility systems, waste removal and recycling, a water purification plant, and a scientific environmental monitoring and protection unit, all on their own dime without a cent from local taxpayers. That relationship continues today - until the GOP just voted to end it and place Disney's expenses and obligations upon taxpayers.

None of the other local entertainment venues play on the same field as Disney because they didn't need to build their own service delivery systems in order to open for business.

eliminate their comparative advantage over their competitors

I disagree that the "district" gives Disney any functional advantage over the other parks, and you're buying into the mistaken belief that Disney's deal can be distilled down to how profitably their parks operate.

At the beginning, Disney didn't have any advantage, they had tremendous obstacles to overcome in creating a liveable environment out of barren swamp and farmland. The sunk tens of millions into the project with no certain guarantee that they'd be able to duplicate their success in California.

Disney has one and only one unique advantage over their contemporary competitors, but it's one they invested in and built on their own dime, which has placed uncountable billions of tax dollars into Florida's coffers over the last 50 years. That advantage is the right of self determination on their own property in the form of an elected board of directors seated under Florida's laws who manage aspects of their compound that normally would fall upon local governments and service providers.

I don't get why people are so upset about Disney paying their own way without taxpayer money for the right of running their expansive business without having to engage local government for oversight. If Disney was breaking the law or operating recklessly, I could understand the angst, but Disney not only has higher safety standards than the regulations require, they also pay property taxes to the counties even though the counties don't deliver services to Disney outside of law enforcement.

Disney pays more, and people don't understand that the GOP's legislation makes them stop, and shifts their debt service and maintenance expense responsibilities to all the taxpayers in two counties.

I needed you to own up that to demonstrate how ridiculous it would be for the county at large to assume debt that benefits only Disney.

I just can't ... You have got to be the most unnuanced thinker the world has ever produced. Florida's law as it regards the dissolution of special districts MANDATES that the overseeing government take over the infrastructure formerly operated under the special district agreement.

For the last ------- time: At present, Disney is paying more than any other taxpayer for the services they receive because they don't get a dime of tax money outside of the "taxes" they charge themselves within the district! They foot 100% of their own bill. Once the district is dissolved, the counties in which Disney's property resides take over all responsibilities for delivering these services TO DISNEY, and Disney stops paying the extra tax they charged themselves and have no fiscal responsibility for the infrastructure management they are forced to turn over to the counties.

Special districts ARE the government's way to get specific entities with unique situations to fund their needs outside of the usual taxpayer supported methods. FFS, read post #136.

Read this and learn something:

#152

I know, but other people reading this probably don't know the truth and hopefully this information will help them understand what DeSantis is doing to the taxpayers in Florida against their own interests. He doesn't GAF who it hurts so long as he gets airtime owning the woke libs and their grooming agenda.

#153 cont.

State law prevents the counties from raising sales taxes or impact fees to cover the costs. They also must tax all areas of the county equally, meaning whatever they enact must apply to everyone.

That leaves one avenue: property taxes, of which Orange County collects approximately $600 million per year right now.

"I don't see how Orange County doesn't raise property taxes by 20% to 25%," Randolph said. "That's what [the county] would probably have to do to cover this financial situation."

No misinformation, no spin, just the documented truth. Try it sometimes instead of pulling fecal matter out of your backside and calling it knowledge.

Hell...he might just get elected President after all this.

Which is DeSantis' ultimate endgame. Why do you think that he's allowing the canard to fly that he's making Disney pay their fair share by dissolving their district when the actual result is that Disney will gain a $163 million tax cut and shift over a $1 billion of debt liability to Florida taxpayers just for the sake of his revenge in taking away Disney's authority to control their own property?

He's not doing this alone you know.

Take that to mean the Florida Republicans' revenge, not just DeSantis'.

There must be some negative to this for Disney

You've been told the negative multiple times: Disney loses their autonomy - the very reason they've paid more for 55 years. For Disney, their own freedom to conduct business as they see fit is worth the extra expense.

defending tax breaks for a groomer friendly global mega-corporation run by .1 percenters.

Will you ever get it through your skull that Disney does not receive a tax "break" because of their district, they take on more tax "liability" because of their district status instead?

I wish righties would acknowledge the difference between paying more taxes and then being "punished" into paying less taxes. Geesh.

If you want Disney to pay MORE in taxes, leave the district intact.
If you want Disney to pay LESS in taxes, dissolve the district status.

Full pajamas. Long underwear.

With buttoned trap doors ...

#193

Danforth,

There's nothing more to post. It's just an unsubstantiated, unattributed paragraph in a story that goes on to explain that Disney generates hundreds of millions in taxes annually for Florida.

There are no numbers or estimates tied to the allegation whatsoever. It's truly poor journalism because there's nothing factual backing up the statement.

The comment completely decontextualizes the truth: Disney indeed "saves" money on fees and taxes that would be paid to the counties for services that it pays 100% for itself. And Disney charges itself higher taxes than the counties are able to.

#193 cont.

Excuse me, I did find more relevant information in V's link:

The Reedy Creek Improvement District, enacted in 1967 to entice Disney to build a theme park 20 miles south of Orlando, saves the company millions of dollars annually in fees and taxes, experts estimate.

Reedy Creek can also provide Disney with financing options. A few years ago, for instance, when Disney wanted to build a road interchange near its Hollywood Studios park at Disney World, it had Reedy Creek issue bonds to cover the cost. (In contrast, in the 1990s, when Disney needed municipal infrastructure in Anaheim, Calif., to develop its California Adventure theme park, the company had to persuade Anaheim to issue the bonds.)

I linked the article.

Yes, but you posted one unsubstantiated sentence which leaves its reader with an incomplete understanding of the full context of the actual facts articulated right afterward in the article itself.

And you did it on purpose to mislead readers into perhaps thinking there was substantial backing for that assertion in the article when in fact there is no one word of factual support for the supposed tax and fee savings that Disney allegedly realized when compared to the tens of millions of dollars in excess taxation and costs that it voluntarily pays in order to have its own autonomy.

And the bleating morons above continue with the canard that the district is a deal that saves Disney money when anyone with eyes can read the facts (and the most relevant quote that you left out of your C&P - that the deal is about autonomy more than money) that Disney's deal positively serves both itself and the taxpayers in both counties and taking it away will add financial burden to those counties that they will be forced to pass on to all taxpayers because of Florida's law.

For God's sake people, Disney built a freaking interstate interchange and paid for it themselves by issuing bonds. It would have cost taxpayers tens of millions. And for this Disney is being labeled a tax scofflaw by the ignorati? This is circular firing squad level misjudgment and misrepresentation on the GOP's part.

That is the law, any other story is political double talk BS.

It is not the law as it regards the dissolution of a special taxing district under Florida law. The bond is secured by the fact that the Reedy Creek District taxes ITSELF to pay off the bondholders. Once the District is dissolved, the debt is transferred to the taxpayers of the governments who assume said obligations, namely the two counties in which Disney's property resides.

With the dissolution of the district, the counties are legally banned from charging Disney higher tax rates than other county taxpayers to pay the bond debt or the ongoing costs for the services, maintenance and operation responsibilities for the physical infrastructure they'll take over from Disney. Read that as many times as it takes to sink in. All of these details are linked to the source of the facts in posts above.

This is what you don't get: Disney voluntarily overtaxed itself within its own district so that these costs would NOT be borne by other taxpayers. Under Florida law, only in special districts is this type of taxation legal. Eliminate the district and the counties have no other recourse but to increase taxes on everyone to fund that debt.

You have no idea what you're talking about in this regards and its precisely why Disney required their district in the first place. The district didn't allow Disney to escape tax responsibility, it allowed them to over tax themselves while paying 100% for all their own services costs yet still pay full property taxes to the counties.

Note: DeSantis and the Florida GOP just targeted all the theme parks and all tourism in Central Florida by raising taxes on all of them by 20%.

With every single penny of the extra tax money going to pay for Disney's internal expenses.

That's showing 'em who's boss, right Florida GOP idiots?

I've never been a fan of Disney's treatment of their lower-paid Florida employees compared to those in California. For decades, those in California made more money than those in Florida. Disney was renown for not paying anywhere close to a living wage to a majority of its workers while making billions in profits and paying healthy dividends to its shareholders. I'm not familiar with that relationship today, but that aside, I used to live in metro Orlando for a couple years in the early 1990s as the area was continually growing from the foundation created by Disney settling there in 1965.

I compared Disney's seeming disengagement from the general Orlando community compared to the largest employers where I am from - Indianapolis - actively supporting community growth through philanthropy and business/state partnerships which fostered the construction of public works that brought benefits to the entire region.

But then I learned about the Reedy Creek Tax District and I learned that instead of being in a position where Disney owed their host area, instead they built and paid for everything within their boundaries without transferring any of those costs to the taxpayers of Orange and Osceola counties. They did it by using the authority the Florida legislature gave them through Florida's special district laws to levy even more taxes upon themselves for the ability to maintain complete operational control of everything within its property boundaries, not just the theme parks. And today's reality is that the tourism juggernaut Disney started now generates more than $5 billion in taxes annually for the counties and state - the equivalent of a tax saving for each O'do household of $5685 a year.

Why any rational politician would want to upset this relationship only proves how depraved and power-mad the Governor and his political minions actually are, readily willing to upend a 55 year old operational agreement, foist unneeded debt upon taxpayers, give Disney a $163 million tax cut and relieve them of almost $1 billion in bond obligations now to be paid for by taxpayers.

I never want to hear again that it's the Democrats pushing culture wars and identity politics. The cultural warriors trying to take all of us back to the 16th Century are the Republicans, operating as the true American Taliban whenever they have the unilateral controls of government.