My understanding is that the Speech and Debate Clause applies only to purely legislative activities.

I would also think that no legal clause for free speech case law would cover incitement of insurrection. No right is absolute and I would hope that the behind the scenes scheming and dealing would strip any ridiculous claims of their public comments being protected rhetorical speech.

Biden was still saying they'll go back to normal after trump leaves. Clueless old fool.

DeSantis shows they're moving past Trump and becoming even more radical and dangerous.

I'm rapidly losing hope that we're going to avoid widespread unrest and, likely, violence.

If you haven't already it might be time to start tapping your inner prepper. At the very least food. Maybe weapons and/or ballistic armor.

I don't think it's going to get better before it gets better.

Your false equivalency is still false.

We're finding large portions of one of two major political parties involved in attempts to subvert our democratic processes.

It was a coup.

Now we have a governor openly showing fascist tendencies to appeal to the base, who are eating it up.

Sorry, but BLM never had the oomph current undercurrents in our political environment have. You have a portion of the left in the game protesting, an exceedingly smaller portion actually causing violence and destruction, a portion of the right fully committed against it and the plurality of the electorate squarely in the middle on the sidelines.

What we're seeing is the well armed, committed to blatant lies and justification of violence (read: implicit support at the very least) rightwing base dropping even the facade of good faith governance and participation. Sorry, but the momentum is in a bad direction and gaining strength.

Also, your "ton of violence" was largely relegated to a few large metro areas.

Despite all the pearl clutching and hand wringing, the vast majority of people in the country were never close to being in danger of personal harm or property damage. It was quintessential mole hills and mountains.

We have Pizzagate at a broad level building and it won't take long for it to percolate to local levels. Hell, we're already seeing it. Once some lunatic acts on the grooming nonsense all bets are off.

Hopefully mine proves more accurate.

#16 | Posted by BellRinger

Me too.

But as a student of history there are a lot of red flags.

I've said since Trump got elected that Trump wasn't my biggest worry. It was the politician who used his tactics in a shrewder, more controlled manner.

DeSantis is proving to be that guy. Disney was a test balloon and it's definitely going their way. The FL GOP supports it. The electorate is stuck on arguments of whether or not it was justified, completely missing the fact that it was blatant political retribution.

He's now moving on to move #2 in purging the intellectual class at the state level. Again. Test balloon.

And again, he's finding willing support.

Maybe that last straw is what's pushed me over the edge. The intellectuals are always one of the first targets of dictatorial takeovers. DeSantis will point to his success in FL as a plus on the national level and far too many will follow. We see the signs of conditions being ripe with the CRT mess and people openly threatening school boards over buzzwords and masks.

All sides are way over-hyping everything.

I disagree.

One party is investigating a legitimate problem. 1/6 is, whether your admit it or not, a legitimate problem.

The other is creating them by passing legislation addressing non issues to stoke culture war fear and anger.

All of this on top of the blatant lies leading to the other party's investigation(s).

If all of the Bidenflation, "skyrocketing" gas prices, "war on oil," ect ect ect were happening against any other backdrop, I would laugh and debate it as politics as usual.

But that usual level of cynical spin and lies set against the backdrop of current GOP rhetoric about stolen elections, "grooming," and supposed religions persecution? I'm taking it far more seriously.

The likely 2022 GOP takeover will likely lead to shenanigans in 2024. It's guaranteed. I expect 2024 to be outside the realm of any of our experiences, which is why preparation now is a good idea IMO.

Nonsense.

You see nothing because you choose to see nothing.

I see a path being tread that's been tread before.

I'm not sure if it's your political bias or historical ignorance blinding you, but there's something keeping that tunnel vision of yours very narrow and very specific.

Your letting your personal bias run away with your vision.
I don't see "nothing". I would argue that you see "nothing" of concern from the other side of the aisle.

--------. You're playing a lame attempt at bothsiderism here.

The left hasn't tried to overturn a fair and legal election by invading the capitol, whisking away the VP so a senator can step in his place and play the part so that the election could be falsely thrown back to rigged state legislatures already ready to present false electors.

Seriously. There's not even remotely close to a comparison here.

But only a minute fraction of the whackos on either side are willing to truly take up arms and try and usurp our government.

Nonsense. Nowhere close to true.

You've already justified disregarding multiple sources calling white supremacist, anti-government groups as the biggest threat to the country. Even after they act (1/6), you ignore.

Further, the guardrails are WAY too strong for some soy-latte drinking effete losers to overtake some overweight and tatted 'militia' types to be anything other than a fringe willing to try and take matters into their own hands.

The guardrails were also "too strong" to allow a beer hall putsch to succeed in 1924. Are you historically literate enough (without googling) to understand what that means?

If you are a student of history as you claim to be you should recognize your overreaction to what is going on right now in this country.

#25 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Nonsense. My historical literacy is why I'm sure that if things go the way I think they're going you'll be the modern equivalent of the average German citizen in 1945.

I've seen far more breaking of norms coming from the left than from the right.

Get the ---- out of here. Idiot.

Our legal system has been extremely harsh on ALL involved that day.

---- you.

I just watched our DOJ and FBI go down in absolute flames over a supposed kidnapping plot of a governor in 2020.

Because, surprise surprise, they could get at least one rube dumbass on the jury to refuse to convict.

You really are a useful idiot.

Well, we are almost 100 years after that event. Do you still weep about the Whiskey Rebellion?

Proves my point. You're an abysmally stupid dumb sack of ----.

So, you are really predicting a Nazi-esque takeover of this country where the radical right will engage in ethnical cleansing and genocide on a level not seen since the Nazi's? Trump has really broken you.

#27 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Authoritarianism has come in many different flavors over the course of history.

Thinking that it must occur in a scripted, by the book fashion only goes to show I was right about you-you're ignorant as ----.

I tried. I really, genuinely tried.

But trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a retarded brick wall.

You're beyond hope, jeffy. So ------- fat, stupid and confident in their privileged, ignorant life you're doomed to be one of the biggest dupes in history.

I'm being serious here - what you are concocting in terms of what you believe will happen seems like a massive rationalization for extreme measures if 2022 and 2024 go the way of the GOP, especially if DeSantis is POTUS.

LOL now you're pulling a MTG and trying to cast yourself as a victim.

Just ---- off.

You didn't challenge them. That would require stating facts.
You never do.

Two questions.

Is the Disney/DeSantis tiff not political retribution?

Are covert and overt attempts to overthrow democratic results not a coup?

Yes or no answers are all that are required.

LOL you tool.

How is subverting the results of a free and fair election in the US not a coup?

---- you and your "are you still beating your wife" yes/no lawyer questions.

You're cornered and you know it.

Just for fun. Just to watch you fly off the deep end with invective and anger, because it's amusing to me...

#34 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

LOL you're like the goth kid who claims they don't care what others thing about them.

BTW they are both yes or no questions. Your resistance to answering yes to the second one is very telling.

They are both stupid questions. The type of ---- I expect from Snoofy. Yet, here you are.

They're actually both super easy questions that aren't hard to answer.

Unless you're inserting more there than is necessary.

Answer to both is yes.

Were the results subverted?

So in your mind an attempted coup is nothing because it's only attempted?

Do you understand how stupid that is?

Do you want to know what a coup really is? Taking over several city blocks for several days. CHOP/CHAZ was far more of a coup than 1/6.

LOL you really are one dumb, leeching sack of ----.

---- me. Worse than I thought.

But then, following the legislative process and revoking special privilege for a mega-corporation is seen as the end of Democracy by idiots like you.

#41 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Way to be obtuse to the point of being stupid.

---- it. I'm out for the night. No use conversing with dumb sacks of ---- with less intelligence than my left nut.

Look, this thread shows why my assertions that you're a dumb piece of ---- are 100% accurate.

I asked, broadly, whether or not an attempt to subvert a duly elected POTUS was a coup attempt.

You avoided the question and even claimed it was immature.

A ridiculous accusation on its face because you were so blinded by your biases that you didn't even have it in you to answer the question broadly.

Which was the context of the question.

And it was a softball question that can only be honestly answered as YES.

They flow from false premises.

Only those that you insert.

Probably because you know where the follow up question will go and can't be honest about that answser.

Here, I'll spell it out for you.

Q1: Is it a coup to subvert the legal results of a Democratic election?
A1: YES

Q2: Was it an attempted coup for members of the GOP to try and subvert the legal democratic election of Joe Biden?
A2? YES

It's a matter of degree. An attempted assassination attempt is worse - Hodgkinson shot up a softball game with the explicit attempt to kill as many GOP congressmen as possible. He almost succeeded with Scalise. On that day we experienced more lawmaker casualties than what we saw on 1/6.

#44 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

And here we have your twisted justification.

First, the cop out that it's a matter of degree.

Followed by a baseless assertion that overtaking the government is worse than assassinating members of the lower house of Congress.

Followed by the ridiculous (and loaded, not to mention post hoc) assertion that number of lawmaker casualties determines the severity of the event.

Tell me how I'm not supposed to see you as an abysmally stupid moron?

Oh. So, your question had no underlying pretext whatsoever - it was just a broad and general question. Sorry, not buying that. If that was truly all it was - just an overly general question with no underlying premises - yes, that would qualify, in a very general sense, as a coup attempt.

#47 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

LOL what pathetic sack of ----.

Yes, your hypothetical is a coup in hypothetical terms.

But no, it's not a coup when I insert my bias and apply it to my preferred politicians.

Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

LOL you literally just admitted that 1/6 was a coup attempt.

But are still trying to tap dance your way out of it.

*facepalm*

It doesn't matter. That's a completely arbitrary metric.

Of course I did. That's what it was.

#52 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

But yet...it's not a big deal? Dems should just let it go?

And that's why you're an idiot.

Says the idiot who posted #58

---- you're one stupid dumbass. Isn't even aware of his own hyperbole while whining about another poster's supposed hyperbole.

#57 oh look another abysmally stupid sack of ---- swoops in to comfort you.

I'm sure you'll take that as a sign your correct.

It's irrelevant if people have moved on.

Most people care far more about inflation, food and energy prices especially skyrocketing, a growing and completely self inflicted humanitarian crisis at the southern border, weakened foreign policy and a "Weekend at Bernie's" president than 1/6.

All of which is misrepresented, distorted --------.

Get out of your bubble.

So, inflation is just a figment of our imagination?

That it's Biden's fault is.

The illegal entry numbers at the border are false?

Abused. They're being detained, which is why we know about them. Sounds like ICE is working.

The cost of food and gas are not rising?

Not "skyrocketing." And fuel has been going up and down but isn't rising above the highs it was previously at.

Biden is sharper than he's ever been and is showing no signs of decline?

He's what I would expect for a 78 year old man.

Who are we to believe - our lying eyes and wallets or a smug, self proclaimed genius - expert left winger?

#84 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You're believing talking heads who are disingenuously selling you lies.

And you're perfectly fine with being had. Seems you like it, actually.

Biden's policies are the straw that broke the camel's back.

An unfalsifiable assertion with zero supporting evidence.

It's merely a canned answer stemming from your understanding of inflation beginning and ending at government spending.

Regardless, had Trump won in 2020 we'd still have inflation right now and you'd be placing 100% of the blame for it squarely on him.

You can try and make me out to be just like you but it's not true.

Nice spin, Jen. The total number is approaching all-time record levels and are a direct result of Biden's policies.

LOL it's not spin. It's fact. Try dealing with it.

Piss off. You are a left-wing tool so quit trying to act all above the fray. You're not.

#95 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

LOL

Dude. Here's an illustration of the different between me and you.

You chirp "energy prices skyrocketing! War on energy!!" withiut even bothering to look at a damn chart to see how that jives with reality.

I do.

There's a significant amount of daylight between us.

Not to mention Trump's budgets which were massive giveaways to MIC and special interests piled on top of tax cuts and deficits.

Took about a week for the GOP fauxrage over Trump's massive spending to fade as the cash flooooowed.

Biden has reigned that in but yeah, it's his policies that are causing it.