"Given that most abortions are early and medication abortion is harder to trace and already kind of becoming the majority or preferred method, it's going to be a big deal," Mary Ziegler, a visiting law professor at Harvard, said. "It's going to generate a lot of forthcoming legal conflicts because it's just going to be a way that state borders are going to become less relevant."

But many conservative states have already begun passing laws to restrict medication abortion, including banning it earlier than 10 weeks' gestation and requiring patients to visit providers in person despite F.D.A. rules. Nineteen states ban the use of telemedicine for abortion. This year, Americans United for Life, an anti-abortion advocacy group, listed laws against medication abortion as first among the organization's "pressing priorities" for 2022.

"In the last year, Arizona, Arkansas, Indiana, Montana, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Texas have enacted state-level safeguards to stop mail-order abortion drugs, and the Tennessee Legislature recently sent such protections to Gov. Bill Lee," Mallory Carroll, an official with Susan B. Anthony List, an anti-abortion group, said. "In addition to creating health and safety standards, states are also increasing requirements for reporting complications from abortion drugs. We will be working with allies in additional states to tackle this growing public health threat."

Residents of states that would quickly ban all abortion methods if Roe were overturned - including Texas, Missouri, Utah and Tennessee - would be legally prohibited from having telemedicine abortion consultations from any location in their state, even if the doctor were located in a state with legal abortion. Such patients would have to travel to a state where an online, video or phone consultation is legal - the IP address of the computer or phone they were using would identify where they were located. Then, they would have to receive the pills by mail at an address in a state with legal abortion, even if it were a post office box or a hotel.

Best to you and the Mrs. JPW.

One huge fact that the anti-abortionists ignore is that likely more than 1/5 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. IOW, the Big One himself/herself is the most prolific aborter on the planet.

Or would laws governing men's bodies be a bridge too far?

If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

But......you need a medical record to prove an abortion occurred instead of a DNC.

So we're back to the enforcement of the law....and how do you enforce it?

There won't be medical records of abortions if they're banned. And what about pharmaceutical abortions? What about pills that don't come from a provider who can be compelled to share data with American law enforcement?

In my opinion, it will be enforced by self-appointed snoops and ne'er-do-wells injecting themselves into the personal lives of others in service of their religious agendas. And these same groups will pressure police and prosecutors to follow the letter and intent of both the existent and anti-abortion upcoming laws.

That will be another hurdle for republicans to get around in order to criminally enforce some law banning abortion.

This one's easy. Since the civil laws entail charges brought by the public, I'm sure that these laws will be amended where charged suspects will be compelled to undergo physical examinations to determine whether or not they've recently housed a zygote. In the service of the law, I'm sure this Court will sidestep the 4th Amendment protections since the courts will indeed issue warrants demanding compliance.

Next question.

Ebs, I think that you keep ignoring that the people pushing these measures believe in their souls that women having abortions are murdering children.

Now, with that as a predicate, do you really think issuing a warrant for a physical examination to determine whether a felony murder has occurred won't happen or is a step too far?

I'm suggesting it might be a step too far if it involves the turning over of medical records without the patients consent (or death)

There won't be any medical records because medical abortions will be illegal. No one keeps evidence of a crime that will land you in jail. It's like implying that criminal drug dealers would keep sales records for the IRS when their business is 100% illegal.

The woman's body itself is the crime scene. A physical exam would be analogous to gathering evidence, if it indeed exists. This is crime investigation 101.

#52

Now to be clear in extension of Joe's points, if providers of medical abortions use normal healthcare facilities and equipment they may well indeed document tests or readings prior to performing a procedure. But it seems with near certainty that said records would be immediately destroyed once the visit concluded, and as a patient, I'd demand to witness that destruction before I left the facility.

Again, in these scenarios all of this would be illegal now. Normal protocols would no longer would be operative.

Will a physical exam conclude whether or not a mis-carriage occurred followed by a DNC procedure or an abortion procedure?

I'm pretty sure that physical evidence of the uterus' state can be determinant of any recent housing of a fertilized zygote.

The CPT codes in the medical record will indicate that.

Again, I see zero chance that any medical abortion provider will be dumb enough to keep documentation of a felony.

But hey, what do I know?

HIPAA does not apply to ILLEGAL medical procedures.

#62

Ohmigod.... Insurance cannot cover a criminal action! If abortion is illegal, then everything involving it would be done in furtherance of a crime.

Abortion will be black market only Ebs. Who advertises that they commit crimes? What business takes a credit card for money laundering services?

If outlawed, abortion becomes a criminal act, it no longer will be a legal medical procedure performed under existent protocols and standards.

can the examination determine if it was an abortion or a D&C?

Gray area. To anti abortionists, a D&C would likely require copious documentation that it wasn't done as an intentionally abortive act. I honestly can't say how that would work.

And with anti abortion laws, I could see all doctors being required to disclose any and all pregnancies to the government anyway. These people are trying to close every conceivable door to selective termination of pregnancies. I put nothing past them in this regards.

#64

Sorry Joe, we've been talking on different tracks. My scenario is a full national ban of all abortions, which is the end goal of organized anti abortionists. They are already plotting to pass a federal law as soon as possible to do just that - which also lays bare the lie that they only seek to send abortion back to the states. They don't. They can't stand that blue states will keep abortion legal. They'll pass the antithesis of the abortion rights law the Dems don't have the votes to pass the nanosecond they control all three sectors of the federal government.

They'll nuke the filibuster before the next R President's boxes are even emptied in the White House.

#69

While I don't think there's enough energy to try and criminalize ------------, I've been blowing my horn all week that every other right that we tied to a right of privacy are absolutely in the religionist's crosshairs.

Gay marriage, interracial marriage, contraception, LGBTQ rights all are subject to the same cancellation under the rationale expressed by Alito in his draft decision regardless of how he tries to claim that it only applies to abortion.

This is only the first stone being cast. They're going to go after the entire artifice before they're done which is why this battle needs to be about establishing a Right to Privacy, and it must include both the right to practice and believe in religion privately along with the equal right to have no religious belief at all.

Abortion is only one brick. We need to protect the whole wall.

If Texas has a ----- ban how is Cruz allowed into the state?

They only have a ban about using one, not electing one.

#68