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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, May 09, 2022

The US supreme court draft ruling on abortion is an assault on fundamental individual freedoms. The Handmaid's Tale author reflects on the issues at stake

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Forced parenthood is slavery.

#1 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-08 04:11 PM | Reply

If the state wants to increase the domestic supply of infants by outlawing abortion, then the state should support the mandated mother and her child with medical and child support until the child's 18th birthday:

Nobody likes abortion, even when safe and legal. It's not what any woman would choose for a happy time on Saturday night. But nobody likes women bleeding to death on the bathroom floor from illegal abortions either. What to do?

Perhaps a different way of approaching the question would be to ask: What kind of country do you want to live in? One in which every individual is free to make decisions concerning his or her health and body, or one in which half the population is free and the other half is enslaved?

Women who cannot make their own decisions about whether or not to have babies are enslaved because the state claims ownership of their bodies and the right to dictate the use to which their bodies must be put. The only similar circumstance for men is conscription into an army. In both cases there is risk to the individual's life, but an army conscript is at least provided with food, clothing, and lodging. Even criminals in prisons have a right to those things. If the state is mandating enforced childbirth, why should it not pay for prenatal care, for the birth itself, for postnatal care, and--for babies who are not sold off to richer families--for the cost of bringing up the child?

And if the state is very fond of babies, why not honour the women who have the most babies by respecting them and lifting them out of poverty? If women are providing a needed service to the state--albeit against their wills--surely they should be paid for their labour. If the goal is more babies, I am sure many women would oblige if properly recompensed. Otherwise, they are inclined to follow the natural law: placental mammals will abort in the face of resource scarcity.


I, for one, do not want to live in a country where ------ and rape victims are forced to carry their abuser's child to term. Nor do I want to live in a country that outlaws abortion in cases where the mother's life is at risk and/or in cases where the fetus has a medical condition which is certain to result in death either before or shortly after birth. And all because some people believe every pregnancy is a miraculous gift from God rather than acknowledging the cruel and unusual treatment such strategies inflict upon girls and women in this country.

#2 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-08 04:12 PM | Reply

I don't want to live where a person and their healthcare provider's business isn't sancrosanct.

Take your "Don't Tread On Me" flags and shove them up your ass.

Mind your own business.

#3 | Posted by bruceaz at 2022-05-08 04:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#3 Very good point.

#4 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-08 04:37 PM | Reply

Forced parenthood is slavery.

#1 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

There is going to be a lot of this whining from men when courts force them to support the unwanted babies

#5 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-08 05:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Like Sentinel's ever even kissed a girl. Incel Cuke just drips from her every post.

#6 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-05-08 10:54 PM | Reply

Why not bring back infanticide? Then both parents would have a chance to opt out up to a point.

#7 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-09 12:19 PM | Reply

Why not bring back infanticide?

#7 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

I think that you people will eventually find a way to be hateful and punitive to everyone.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-09 12:28 PM | Reply

Why are you always trying to impose your religious beliefs on others, Bobcat?

#9 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-09 12:49 PM | Reply

Just a few months ago the same d-bags who think overturning Roe will be no big deal at all for women were comparing wearing cloth masks at the convenience store with the Jewish experience in nazi death camps.

That's a fine party you've got there, GOP.

#10 | Posted by anton at 2022-05-09 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#10 They argue that My Body, My Choice was killed off by the libs and Fauci.

Meanwhile, they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear a mask. Because it's still their body, their choice.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-09 01:34 PM | Reply

#10 They argue that My Body, My Choice was killed off by the libs and Fauci.
Meanwhile, they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear a mask. Because it's still their body, their choice.

#11 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2022-05-09 01:34 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Yes. It's "bodily autonomy" for fat truckers (most of whom are men, by far) and a forced birth policy for all the wimminfolk.

#12 | Posted by anton at 2022-05-09 01:46 PM | Reply

"Just a few months ago the same d-bags who think overturning Roe will be no big deal at all for women were comparing wearing cloth masks at the convenience store with the Jewish experience in nazi death camps."

I agree that's utterly stupid, but stop pretending only one side has a monopoly on stupidity and hypocwithy. Both of your parties have abused the use of the four-letter N-word when disagreeing with the other.

The worst enemy of the women's rights movement has been a specific type of feminist who wants to eat their cake and have it too. Yeah, women have been treated unequally in history. But when you try to get revenge and callously treat an entire group of people unfairly to try even the score, that negative energy eventually comes back to you. Did you ever think maybe this is a bit of karma...?

#13 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-09 05:49 PM | Reply

You know you're a crying on the inside kind of clown, right?

#14 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-05-09 08:32 PM | Reply

Yeah, women have been treated unequally in history. But when you try to get revenge and callously treat an entire group of people unfairly to try even the score, that negative energy eventually comes back to you. Did you ever think maybe this is a bit of karma...?

#13 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

So a bully oppresses a kid, the kid finally fights back and calls the bully an ass (not karma), the bully knocks out the kid (totes karma!)

Did you ever think "the revenge and callous treatment", whatever you define that to be, might be the karma from the negative energy of being treated unequally in history? Or do you just skip over that to defend the oppressor ? Strange take you got there.

#15 | Posted by memyselfini at 2022-05-09 11:30 PM | Reply

revenge and callously treat an entire group of people unfairly to try even the score

#13 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

And please, help me understand when and how this even occurred. Some examples to clarify the injustice you're claiming.

#16 | Posted by memyselfini at 2022-05-09 11:41 PM | Reply

Income taxes are slavery.

#17 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-05-10 03:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Income taxes are slavery.
#17 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Nothing for you to worry about.

They can't tax nothing.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-10 03:23 AM | Reply

#16

At least he admitted this likely court decision is payback for some (imaginary) injustice women have committed against men by preferring to make their own medical decisions.

#19 | Posted by anton at 2022-05-10 08:20 AM | Reply

With DNA testing being what it is... it will almost be the "if men got pregnant" scenario. No more of that "I have six kids that I know of (wink wink nudge nudge)" that was the norm a half-century ago when the law was first passed.

Roe v Wade? HA?

It's been more of a boon for men than women. A woman can conceive once a month for about 35 years. Roughly 455 windows of opportunity whereas men every day for 55 years if they are healthy.

From the time of Roe v Wade without birth control, our population would be what India is now and India would be in the stratosphere.

#20 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2022-05-10 12:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15- It's all karma. Karma goes in an endless circle. Only the truly enlightened can break out of it, rather than perpetuate it, on and on and on...

#21 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-10 02:32 PM | Reply

Income taxes are slavery.

#17 | Posted by visitor_

Try earning any income without the help of society.

Until you do, you own some of that income back to the society which helped you earn it.

Only in the rotting republican mind is paying back the people who invested in you seen as unfair.

#22 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-05-10 02:48 PM | Reply

Atwood on Right to Abortion

what about the Right of the unborn Human Being. the unborn have their own distinct DNA and fingerprints. they are a living Human Being

we know sooo much more about the unborn than in 1973. believe the Science

#23 | Posted by Maverick at 2022-05-10 09:16 PM | Reply

Atwood on Right to Abortion
what about the Right of the unborn Human Being. the unborn have their own distinct DNA and fingerprints. they are a living Human Being
we know sooo much more about the unborn than in 1973. believe the Science

#23 | POSTED BY MAVERICK

It is NOT an unborn human being, it is a building block for a human being. Until the fetus is delivered it should have zero rights (IMHO). The sole decider of what happens should be the person inside of whom the fertilize egg/zygote/fetus resides as that is the person who has bodily autonomy.

It is NO business of society or government what that woman chooses to do with her body.

#24 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-10 09:26 PM | Reply

And on and on and on..

#25 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 09:23 AM | Reply

"It is NOT an unborn human being,"

"... This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization ..."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

"At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... "
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... "
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Muller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29.]

"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

---- your feelings.

#26 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 12:54 PM | Reply

SSentinel's post is a perfect example of the adage:

Had to go to college to learn how to be that dumb.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 12:57 PM | Reply

SSentinel's post is a perfect example of the adage:
Had to go to college to learn how to be that dumb.

#27 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Nonsense, he just cut and pasted a tweet he read

#28 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-11 12:59 PM | Reply

---- your feelings.
#26 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

No, the ---- your feelings moment will come when MRAs are whining about paying for child support.

#29 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-11 12:59 PM | Reply

I cannot even fathom the horrible things DoucheHurts would do to an aborted fetus if he ever got his hands on one. Hang it from a hook in the ceiling and use it as a speed bag?

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-05-11 01:04 PM | Reply

Kinda like the Taliban playing polo with a decapitated human head.

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-05-11 01:05 PM | Reply

"I cannot even fathom the horrible things DoucheHurts would do to an aborted fetus if he ever got his hands on one."

Aborted fetus.

So, not a person.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 01:08 PM | Reply

I cannot even fathom the horrible things DoucheHurts would do to an aborted fetus if he ever got his hands on one. Hang it from a hook in the ceiling and use it as a speed bag?

#30 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Aborted fetus goes great with fava beans and a nice chianti!

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-11 01:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Has anyone got a rebuttal for forced childbirth being slavery? I agree with Atwood. Government forcing us to carry an unwanted fetus to term makes us servants to the state.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 01:19 PM | Reply

Don't forget to stock up on horse ulcer pills.

#35 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 01:21 PM | Reply

Has anyone got a rebuttal for forced parenthood (of either biological parent) being slavery?

#36 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 01:24 PM | Reply

#34
How the goons square that with their supposed "libertarian" tendencies is a puzzler.

#37 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2022-05-11 01:24 PM | Reply

we know sooo much more about the unborn than in 1973. believe the Science

#23 | POSTED BY MAVERICK

Yes we do. We know that despite all the advances in science and medicine over the last 50 years, fetal viability has not significantly changed. An occasional outlier or new record premature birth notwithstanding. The 24 week viability protected by Roe still stands. Viability at 24 weeks is still about 50/50. Viability earlier than 24 weeks drops rapidly, about 3-4% daily. Even if the infant survives, there are very high odds of long-term developmental, neurological, and cognitive effects.

www.wsj.com

www.verywellfamily.com

#38 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 01:25 PM | Reply

we know sooo much more about the unborn than in 1973. believe the Science
#23 | POSTED BY MAVERICK

As a legal matter, the only thing we've learned since 1973 is that the Constitution does not protect a Right to Privacy.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 01:32 PM | Reply

Has anyone got a rebuttal for forced parenthood (of either biological parent) being slavery?
#36 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

What's "forced parenthood?" I don't believe we have that.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 01:33 PM | Reply

I cannot even fathom the horrible things DoucheHurts would do to an aborted fetus if he ever got his hands on one. Hang it from a hook in the ceiling and use it as a speed bag?
#30 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Bellboy, you are just a sick ------------. A twisted, self absorbed, evil sick ------------.

#41 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-05-11 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What's your legal remedy to "forced parenthood" or do you support it?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 01:34 PM | Reply

#41. I've been told that a fetus is nothing more than a parasitic lump of cancerous cells by you and your ilk. I've been told that abortion is a beautiful and courageous act. Go to YouTube and search "warble removed from kitten" and it's a perfect visual for how your ilk portray a fetus.

When you sick ------- stop dehumanizing a developing life maybe we can have an adult conservation about abortion.

#43 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-05-11 01:40 PM | Reply

When you sick ------- stop dehumanizing a developing life maybe we can have an adult conservation about abortion.

#43 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You mean, a conversation that allows a right to an an abortion, or one of your conversations?

#44 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-11 01:48 PM | Reply

Aborted fetus goes great with fava beans and a nice chianti!

#33 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

en.uncyclopedia.co

www.cocktailbuilder.com

#45 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 01:50 PM | Reply

I cannot even fathom the horrible things DoucheHurts would do to an aborted fetus if he ever got his hands on one. Hang it from a hook in the ceiling and use it as a speed bag?

#30 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Well, given that 91% of abortions occur before 13 weeks, and at 13 weeks the fetus is less than 3 inches long and weighs less than an ounce, it would be a little small for a speed bag. Unless it's for Donald Trump's tiny little fists.

#46 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 01:57 PM | Reply

"#41. I've been told that a fetus is nothing more than a parasitic lump of cancerous cells by you and your ilk."

Who told you that?

Also, so what?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 02:00 PM | Reply

"Even if the infant survives, there are very high odds of long-term developmental, neurological, and cognitive effects."

Sounds like an argument for infanticide or euthanasia of developmentally impaired and neurodivergent children.

#48 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 02:01 PM | Reply

When you sick ------- stop dehumanizing a developing life maybe we can have an adult conservation about abortion.
#43 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

^
JeffJ thinks adult conversations start by calling the other party "you sick -------."

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 02:01 PM | Reply

[P]reliminary data from the Guttmacher Institute's periodic census of all known abortion providers show that in 2020, medication abortion accounted for 54% of US abortions. . . . Currently, medication abortion is approved for use up to 10 weeks of pregnancy.

www.guttmacher.org

In 2016, two-thirds of abortions occurred at eight weeks of pregnancy or earlier, and 88% occurred in the first 12 weeks.

www.guttmacher.org

#50 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-11 02:40 PM | Reply

#49 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

If he opens the first link I posted in 45, I'll accept him calling me a sick ------. ;^}

#51 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 02:42 PM | Reply

#50. Yet the most prominent leaders of your political party want it legal up to the removal of the umbilical cod with no restrictions that I've seen.

#52 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-05-11 02:43 PM | Reply

legal up to the removal of the umbilical cod with no restrictions
#52 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

^
What you describe is already illegal in something like 45 states.

And nobody is proposing to change that.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-11 02:47 PM | Reply

Sounds like an argument for infanticide or euthanasia of developmentally impaired and neurodivergent children.

#48 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

Only if you want to twist the content of the article to make it something else. Go ahead and argue that if you like. I'd disagree.

#54 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 02:56 PM | Reply

50. Yet the most prominent leaders of your political party want it legal up to the removal of the umbilical cod with no restrictions that I've seen.

POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2022-05-11 02:43 PM | REPLY

A to term fetus never gets aborted. If it is to term it will be born, no exceptions

#55 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-11 02:57 PM | Reply

"#50. Yet the most prominent leaders of your political party want it legal up to the removal of the umbilical cod with no restrictions that I've seen."

Really? I've haven't heard that. My own stance is that abortion should be legal in the first trimester, illegal in the third trimester, expect in cases of fatal fetal deformity/disease and/or to save the life of the mother. I'm not sure where the dividing line should be in the second trimester for legal vs illegal abortions. Somewhere around 16 weeks perhaps.

#56 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-11 03:02 PM | Reply

#56 Reasonable people on both sides of the aisle could figure this out. For example, maybe say first trimester legal, then 12 to 16 weeks legal for rape and ------ survivors, who may need a little more time to get their acts together due to trauma. After that abortions illegal except for health of the mother or fetal disease/deformity.

#57 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-11 03:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Only if you want to twist the content of the article to make it something else. Go ahead and argue that if you like. I'd disagree."

If it's okay to abort a child if you discover before birth that it will have a developmental disorder or impairment, then why not afterwards?

#58 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 04:11 PM | Reply

If it's okay to abort a child if you discover before birth that it will have a developmental disorder or impairment, then why not afterwards?

#58 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

Severe developmental disorder, you know the kind where the born lives in agony before passing.

But, you knew that, so one wonders why you attempt to obfuscate

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-11 04:21 PM | Reply

#50. Yet the most prominent leaders of your political party want it legal up to the removal of the umbilical cod with no restrictions that I've seen.

#52 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I think I'll have to ask for a citation on that one.

#60 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 04:39 PM | Reply

one wonders why you attempt to obfuscate

#59 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

because there are no logical arguments? Just one guess.

#61 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-05-11 04:41 PM | Reply

Troll on, bro. You guys are the ones dismissing science from the textbooks I referenced upthread.

#62 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-05-11 06:35 PM | Reply

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