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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, May 26, 2022

Heather Cox Richardson: How have we arrived at a place where 90% of Americans want to protect our children from gun violence, and yet those who are supposed to represent us in government are unable, or unwilling, to do so?

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"90% of Americans want to protect our children from gun violence."

But 90% of Republicans in congress don't. They think the campaign money they get from the powerful NRA lobby and the Republican Party to keep them in office is worth the trade off. They'll do it every time.

Money vs dead children? Meh! No contest.

#1 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-05-26 11:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They think the campaign money they get from the powerful NRA lobby and the Republican Party to keep them in office is worth the trade off.

I'm not even sure it's all about the money. You lose 30% of the voting block if you even hint that you favour any kind of gun legislation. For a Republican, that is also the usual 30% guaranteed votes they get.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-05-27 12:25 AM | Reply

REDIAL

Every four years Texas is looking more and more purple. Why do you think that stupid audit focused on 4 counties that Biden won? Especially Dallas. That scared the bejebus out of the Republican stranglehold in Texas.

#3 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-05-27 12:49 AM | Reply

that 10%......can we subject them all to brain scans?

#4 | Posted by Tor at 2022-05-27 12:50 AM | Reply

TOR

Why bother? We already know they're permanently zombified.

#5 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-05-27 12:56 AM | Reply

The other 10% should be shot.

#6 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-05-27 01:52 AM | Reply

This isn't exactly a tough nut to crack.

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:39 AM | Reply

Capitalism, it seems, is also trumping democracy at home.

They are competing systems, not complementary. One of them will triumph over the other and there shouldn't be any doubt which one is winning. In his worst nightmare not even Marx could have predicted what capitalism has become, where trillions of otherwise useful capital is horded at Vanguard and Blackrock and the like producing nothing, inventing nothing, feeding-housing-employing no one. Engles would have thought you were completely off your rocker if you told him one day the largest sector of the largest economy in the richest country in the world is lead by a bunch of rent-seeking goldbricking coked-up frat boys in finance/insurance.

The other 10% should be shot.
Remember it's America, a solid 8% are too stupid to understand the question.

#8 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 02:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

In his worst nightmare not even Marx could have predicted what capitalism has become...

A system that elevated more than half the world's population to the middle class?

You're right, I don't think Marx would have ever anticipated that.

And you can't have a democracy when people are slaves to the government. Under socialism that's exactly what they are.

#9 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 03:29 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

A system that elevated more than half the world's population to the middle class?

That's one way to put it. Another might be, a system that exploited the technical, social, and agricultural advancements created by humans. Some of those humans didnt live in democratic or capitalistic societies or predated both. Many of them wanted their inventions to be free and available to everyone. We're using about a dozen of them right now to have this conversation.
You seem to treat capitalism they way christians treat their god. Baby falls 3 stories from a burning building and bounces without a scratch--look at what the Lord hath wrought! 100,000 kids die in Africa from malaria--damn commies!

And, um, not to sound like a bleeding heart or nothing, but what about the other half? Commies, right?

#10 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 03:57 AM | Reply

"Another might be, a system that exploited the technical, social, and agricultural advancements created by humans."

Except that these innovations, particularly technological innovations, were not created or discovered by society writ large.

"Many of them wanted their inventions to be free and available to everyone."

And they are. You don't have to pay someone to build a fire or plant a seed or bathe.

#11 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 04:07 AM | Reply

"You seem to treat capitalism they way christians treat their god."

It's not so much capitalism as it is free markets. When people are offering critiques of capitalism, most often they're critiquing aspects of the free market. Capitalism is simply the funding mechanism behind most of the innovations that are allowed to occur because of the free market.

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 04:11 AM | Reply

"And, um, not to sound like a bleeding heart or nothing, but what about the other half? Commies, right?"

Communism was a specific system, but any system that, either intentionally or otherwise, will act as a deterrent to innovation.

Under socialism, there is little incentive for innovation beyond immediate necessity. First, it's generally very labor and intellectually intensive. In a free market there is incentive to pursue innovation because you can benefit from it. Either as the person developing the innovation or the person funding it. Under socialism, you wouldn't benefit, as whatever you created would be communal property. That's not to say tinkerers aren't going to tinker, but generally I think it's safe to say that in a socialist system, the workers would utilize the one thing they do still own (time) in the manner than brought them the most benefit.

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 04:16 AM | Reply

You don't have to pay someone to build a fire or plant a seed or bathe.
Based.

were not created or discovered by society writ large
Can't tell if you're trolling, wp.
Virtually every component of a cell phone was invented with state sponsored research. All medical research is built on the work done at universities. You think Larry Fink is going to lay down 5 billion to build CERN on the chance it might one day discover something useful? No shot.
Society built CERN (and Hubble, and the Apollo Program, and the Hoover dam)so you get to troll me on the internet. Damn Commies, amirte?

#14 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 04:49 AM | Reply

#13
You quoted me then when on to rant, communism this and socialism that...
Can I get a serious answer? If Capitalism is responsible for "more than half the world's population to the middle class then is it also responsible for the abject poverty of the other half? Or is this like the bouncing baby?

#15 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 05:00 AM | Reply

"Virtually every component of a cell phone was invented with state sponsored research."

Really?

Where?

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:01 AM | Reply

"All medical research is built on the work done at universities."

OK.

Do created viagra? Who funded it?

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:02 AM | Reply

"Society built CERN (and Hubble, and the Apollo Program, and the Hoover dam) so you get to troll me on the internet. Damn Commies, amirte?"

A capitalist society built these things. Not that communists weren't able to achieve similar effects at various points, but they did so at the expense of other state funded priorities.

But communism, so far as I know, never produced a consumer item that ended up being in high demand in capitalist countries.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:05 AM | Reply

"If Capitalism is responsible for "more than half the world's population to the middle class then is it also responsible for the abject poverty of the other half?"

Of course not. Or at least not in any way I can determine. But you seem like a smart person. If you have a different view I'll listen.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:07 AM | Reply

Really?
Where?

You're trolling but champions que is long as ---- tonight so..
Touchscreen
CPU
Multi core processors
RAM
GPS
battery
Gorilla glass
blue tooth

www.aau.edu

#20 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 05:15 AM | Reply

Those were all invented in socialist, or at least non-capitalist societies?

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:43 AM | Reply

I know Bluetooth wasn't. I don't even think Bluetooth was even funded by the government.

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 05:45 AM | Reply

Of course not.
So bouncing baby then. Fair enough. At least you're willing to acknowledge that your view of Capitalism is faith based, no different from a parishioner at Westboro Baptist. Anything good, anything you agree with: God (capitalism) did it. Anything bad, anything you dont agree with: definitely not-god.

I willing to eat my portion of crow here, the proportion of the "middle-class" (which might not be more than a slogan invented by capitalists akin to the football in Charlie Brown) did in fact grow. Charlie gets to kick the football, then nothing happens.
It's been a slow dreadful slog. 250,000 years or more inching along. Centuries after writing, cosmology, philosophy, husbandry, religion (those two are basically the same thing) and so on and so on....then some economic luddite at the very end of this trail of progress wants to sell a story about how his god and The Blessed Profit Smith (Joseph or Adam take your pick) came along and fixed the lot. And anyone not firmly affixed in this new coveted "middle-class" lifestyle simply hasn't yet taken The Profit God into into their heart. Once the news penetrates all the heathen lands everyone can be middle-class, because that's how closed systems work.

a different view I'll listen
I don't know if I'd call it different. It seems pretty well established. Why are they so damn many poor (and i mean poor-poor) people? Capitalism.

I feel like if you want credit for the "middle-class growth" you have to eat Liberia and Haiti and so on.

#23 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 06:29 AM | Reply

all invented in socialist, or at least non-capitalist societies

They were invented on the public's dime, as you said, "by society writ large" with no real expectation of profit.

#24 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 06:39 AM | Reply

"Why are they so damn many poor (and i mean poor-poor) people? Capitalism."

When you say capitalism, are you referring to people being able to profit off of money they invest into enterprise, or are you referring to a free-market system where costs are determined by supply relative to demand?

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 08:26 AM | Reply

I ask, because the citizens in the socialist sphere, when it existed as a much larger entity, were far poorer than their western counterparts. Not because they were stupid or less talented, but rather because the governments A) deterred innovation, and B) legally prevented people from becoming rich.

#26 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 08:29 AM | Reply

"I feel like if you want credit for the "middle-class growth" you have to eat Liberia and Haiti and so on."

Do you feel like Haiti and Liberia would be richer countries overall if they adopted non-capitalist or non-free market economic policies?

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 08:30 AM | Reply

"They were invented on the public's dime, as you said, "by society writ large" with no real expectation of profit."

So...I don't follow. Particularly with the list you provided. GPS was developed by the government as a means if improving Position, Timing, and Navigation (PNT) for military hardware. Bluetooth was developed by a consortium of mostly Nordic countries, hence the name. Gorilla Glass was dveloped by corning.

And I'm pretty sure that all of these developers had commercial applications in mind when they were being developed.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 08:35 AM | Reply

President G. H. W. Bush turned in his NRA membership and told them what to do with it. This would be the time for W and Jeb to show that they have the stones of their father and make a statement.

#29 | Posted by TenMile at 2022-05-27 08:54 AM | Reply

When you say capitalism, are you referring to people being able to profit off of money they invest into enterprise, or are you referring to a free-market system where costs are determined by supply relative to demand?
I dunno. When you say "free-market" do you mean like the Chinese opium trade, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, or more like OPEC?

when it existed as a much larger entity, were far poorer than their western counterparts
Those western counterparts were getting injected with capital (debt) by the only country left with any industrial capacity whatsoever. The entire continent was in ruins. American factories were running full speed and 28 million Russians were dead. As it turns out, a seminary trained murderous paranoid sociopath is good in a fight but not so good at governing. And giving every Tom, Joe and Ivan 40 acres and a mule is a ---- way to produce food. In the long history of everything that has ever worked there was a time when it didn't work (except fiber optics-something spooky going on there).

#30 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 09:11 AM | Reply

This will sound inappropriate and dismissive, but its not my intent. Nothing will change as these victims were not from the correct caste.
Shoot up private schools and kill some of the kids at Macduffie, Avenues, and Walnut Hills.
Then you will see changes.

#31 | Posted by Docman at 2022-05-27 09:16 AM | Reply

"Why bother? We already know they're permanently zombified."

Crime prevention possibilities.

#32 | Posted by Tor at 2022-05-27 09:21 AM | Reply

So...I don't follow. Particularly with the list you provide
Ye, Im wrong on the blue tooth, I thought it was an Australian University, got it confused with something else. Click the link in #20. It shows who, where, when for each component.

GPS
Satellite navigation was invented during the Cold War by a research team at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, led by Richard B. Kershner. Under contract with the Department of Defense and NASA, the team developed the Transit Navigation Satellite System, the precursor to today's modern, commercial GPS.

#33 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 09:28 AM | Reply

-They were invented on the public's dime, as you said, "by society writ large" with no real expectation of profit.

Do you think that's true in part because the inventors themselves didn't have a crystal ball to accurately play out exactly what the commercial potential of their inventions would be?

Much like the innovation that came from the space program?

I am reassured about the possibilities for everyone because this country supports this sort of innovation.

It's unnecessary to argue what was in the inventor's heart when he invented something. We have and will continue to thrive in a public/private partnership with regards to new technologies.

Think what you want of it.....but innovation doesn't stop.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 09:36 AM | Reply

But this poll doesn't mean much other than to illustrate that there is literally no issue where there is universal agreement with 10% polling against protecting children.

LOL

But it still isn't an election issue...meaning half of those who responded favorably in this poll won't vote for the candidate who wants to do something about assault weapons and instead vote for the candidate who is either mute or hides behind their pro-2nd amendment platform....

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 09:54 AM | Reply

Do you think that's true in part because the inventors themselves didn't have a crystal ball to accurately play out exactly what the commercial potential of their inventions would be?
Not exactly sure what your asking. There is surely a wide range of motivations for inventors. Obviously profit is a factor sometimes and sometimes profit isnt a consideration at all. Further still, sometimes profit is rejected outright by the inventor. Ben Franklin open sourced lighting rods knowing full well there was massive profit to be had. We've all used VLC players and no one changed us a penny.

Think what you want of it.....but innovation doesn't stop.
Agreed. But MB might take issue. He's sure humans will just give up thrift, innovation, exploration and curiosity the moment the profit motive is removed.

#36 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-05-27 09:58 AM | Reply

-He's sure humans will just give up thrift, innovation, exploration and curiosity the moment the profit motive is removed.

Again.....We have and will continue to thrive in a public/private partnership with regards to new technologies.

Some humans will give up those things if you remove a profit opportunity.

You need both sides to get from the creation of a touch screen to a $1,500 iphone.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 10:11 AM | Reply

"Some humans will give up those things if you remove a profit opportunity."

Some humans will give up those things if you add a profit opportunity.

You come across as a total Pangloss on this issue, Eberly.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 10:24 AM | Reply

-Some humans will give up those things if you add a profit opportunity.

really? Who, for example? People do things for their own reasons.

Capitalists and industrialists have been taking innovation and running with it for centuries.

Innovators and scientists knew this when they chose their profession. That they might develop something that might make someone else rich.

but they are more interested in the public good regardless of whether or not someone made a buck.

Who would refuse to invent something because of the possibility of someone else making money from it?

You understand of course that the money used to pay the scientists salary and his lab, staff, etc.......probably came from a capitalist's profits?

Not everyone is as naive as you are, snoofy.

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 10:30 AM | Reply

"Capitalists and industrialists have been taking innovation and running with it for centuries."

They wouldn't, without IP protections.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 10:45 AM | Reply

"Who would refuse to invent something because of the possibility of someone else making money from it?"

Lots of people.
That's why they had to invent IP law.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 10:46 AM | Reply

"You understand of course that the money used to pay the scientists salary and his lab, staff, etc.......probably came from a capitalist's profits?"

Money comes from the government.
Saya so right on it.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 10:54 AM | Reply

And the lock was invented to keep thieves out.

WTF is your point?

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 10:54 AM | Reply

"Money comes from the government."

-Snoofy

"Milk comes from the store"

-Snoofy

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 10:58 AM | Reply

Milk comes from a teat. Maybe even from yours.

Money, however, comes from the government.

(Unless you're into that crypto stuff...)

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 10:59 AM | Reply

The lock was invented to keep honest people honest.

#46 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 11:01 AM | Reply

I like the sound of that Laura.

Eberly, what's your take on the continuous advance of lock-defeating technologies.

Is it naughty to use lock-defeating technologies?

Or is it naughty to try to legislate against lock-defeating technologies?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 11:05 AM | Reply

Wow, it's amazing what people reveal about themselves here.

JFC.......

#48 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 11:05 AM | Reply

-The lock was invented to keep honest people honest.

So, you're sure that's why it was invented? That was the motivation of the inventor?

It had nothing to do with dishonest people? You've decided it was because the inventor was only concerned about the actions of honest people.

Because at the time, it was the honest people who were stealing?

#49 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 11:08 AM | Reply

#46 "The lock was invented to keep honest people honest"
Hmmmm Laura, isn't that the same reasoning as "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns".

#50 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-05-27 11:47 AM | Reply

#46 "The lock was invented to keep honest people honest"
Hmmmm Laura, isn't that the same reasoning as "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns".

#51 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-05-27 11:58 AM | Reply

46 "The lock was invented to keep honest people honest"
Hmmmm Laura, isn't that the same reasoning as "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns".

POSTED BY MIRANDA7 AT 2022-05-27 11:58 AM | REPLY

Nonsense. If you reduce the availability of the guns for bad actors you won't stop them all but you will stop a lot of them. The assault weapons ban proves this one out.

#52 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 12:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Alex Cole
@acnewsitics

May 26
Ted Cruz wants to ban doors not guns, Republicans are really really really -------- stupid.

#53 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-27 12:08 PM | Reply

Brian Tyler Cohen
@briantylercohen

Ted Cruz is right, it's the doors, a uniquely American phenomenon. Other countries don't have mass shooting because they must not have doors.

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-27 12:14 PM | Reply

Aaron Rupar
@atrupar

Asked what his plan is to keep schools safe, Kevin McCarthy says schools should be able to repurpose Covid funds to reduce doors.

#DoorControl

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-27 12:15 PM | Reply

A system that elevated more than half the world's population to the middle class?

#9 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 03:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

Correction 17% of the world population is considered "middle class". The number is falling in the US and has been. We fell from 61% middle class families in 1971 to 50% in 2021. Capitalism.

What brought Middle Class to so many Americans were the UNIONS - organized workers.

#56 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2022-05-27 01:07 PM | Reply

"I dunno. When you say "free-market" do you mean like the Chinese opium trade, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, or more like OPEC?"

I mean the free market where price is determined by the relationship between supply and demand. I have to assume that both the Chinese Opium trade and slave trading all incorporated free market principles, but I can't say to a high degree of certainty. I can say that the modern-day druge trade is heavily influenced by government intervention through suppression. One kilo of coke will run you about $16k at the low end, but the majority of the cost is compensation for the risk the value chain components take in getting it from a raw material in south America to a line of white powder on your coffee table.

If it weren't for the risk, you could buy a kilo of coke for about the same as a carton of cigarettes.

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:21 PM | Reply

"The entire continent was in ruins."

You could make that argument for a big portion of global socialism's history...but not all of it. By the 1960s the European and Japanese economies had recovered and were actually competing in the global marketplace. Which is why we started to see a fall in the demand for unskilled labor in the US, which really initated the fall of the union era.

The Industrial capacity of the USSR had recovered by the early 1950s at the latest. What kept them so far behind the west was their adherence to socialism uber alles.

I mean, the DDR literally produced hi-tech electronics under license, but they were only for sale to western buyers. The DDR needed hard cash in order to prop up it's socialist economy.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:25 PM | Reply

"He's sure humans will just give up thrift, innovation, exploration and curiosity the moment the profit motive is removed."

Not really. Tinkerers will still tinker...but in a socialist economy, innovation is a hobby. Nothing more.

#59 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:27 PM | Reply

"Money comes from the government."

Where does the government (in a non-socialist country) get it's money from?

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:29 PM | Reply

"Correction 17% of the world population is considered "middle class"."

So...the number of people in the middle class has declined by 33% in the last four years?

"Something of enormous global significance is happening almost without notice. For the first time since agriculture-based civilization began 10,000 years ago, the majority of humankind is no longer poor or vulnerable to falling into poverty. By our calculations, as of this month, just over 50 percent of the world's population, or some 3.8 billion people, live in households with enough discretionary expenditure to be considered "middle class" or "rich."

www.brookings.edu

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:35 PM | Reply

Nixon went to China.

Then, American companies moved American jobs and American factories went to China.

American workers couldn't compete with that technology innovation.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 02:36 PM | Reply

"We fell from 61% middle class families in 1971 to 50% in 2021. Capitalism."

Do you feel like socialism would have been a better solution?

I mean, because it's worked so well everywhere else.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-27 02:36 PM | Reply

-Nixon went to China.

presidents and their cabinets have been to lots and lots of countries since way before you were born specifically to promote trade with those countries.

Significant trade agreements (NAFTA for example) were bi-partisan supported agreements.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2022-05-27 02:44 PM | Reply

I support gun violence against children and I support the second amendment.

#65 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-05-27 04:30 PM | Reply

Another thread of Madbomber quibbling over socialism. Can we just get a perpetual containment thread for that neverending discussion? This thread is about gun violence, idiot.

#66 | Posted by JOE at 2022-05-27 04:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

We're getting to the point it's becoming apparent we need more armed trained people in schools until we figure out a better way to deal with this that isn't just some feel good ineffective solution

Not less guns.

More guns.

#67 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 07:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

More trained people.

Not stand around clowns.

#68 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 07:14 PM | Reply

We're getting to the point it's becoming apparent we need more armed trained people in schools until we figure out a better way to deal with this that isn't just some feel good ineffective solution
Not less guns.
More guns.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-05-27 07:13 PM | REPLY

Lord you're just dumb.

#69 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 07:14 PM | Reply

Dozens of armed cops on the scenes.
And you think the problem is,
There wasn't enough guns.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 07:17 PM | Reply

"More trained people.
Not stand around clowns."

The cops were the stand around clowns.
Despite training for this their whole lives.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 07:18 PM | Reply

What's dumb is how dumb BJ thinks the rest of us are. More trained people in schools, churches, grocery stores, night clubs and so on and on and on is NOT the answer.

#72 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-27 07:18 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

It was pretty mishandled.

I said trained people.

It's beginning to look inevitable schools will need more armed trained people.

You DO care about children's safety?

#73 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 07:20 PM | Reply

Gal,

I only said schools.

Kindly stop telling me what I "really" mean.

You're no good at it.

#74 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 07:22 PM | Reply

What's dumb is how dumb BJ thinks the rest of us are. More trained people in schools, churches, grocery stores, night clubs and so on and on and on is NOT the answer.

POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2022-05-27 07:18 PM | REPLY

All of the training in the world will do no good if the good guy with a gun won't use it to neutralize the threat. Assault weapons ban is the best way to deal with this. It's not more guns.

#75 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 07:24 PM | Reply

More trained people.

Not stand around clowns.

#68 | Posted by BillJohnson

So schools full of swat teams. That is the america republicans are proposing. All because they think there is no solution to their party being owned by the NRA.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-05-27 07:28 PM | Reply

It was pretty mishandled.
I said trained people.
It's beginning to look inevitable schools will need more armed trained people.
You DO care about children's safety?

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-05-27 07:20 PM |

Good Lord. You sound like you've attended an NRA meeting recently.

#77 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 07:42 PM | Reply

"It's beginning to look inevitable schools will need more armed trained people."

Thanks, Second Amendment!

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 07:44 PM | Reply

"You DO care about children's safety?"

By your reasoning,
Unless you are saying the children should be armed,
How can you claim to care about the children's safety?

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 07:48 PM | Reply

#74 I know what you said. You act as if schools are the only places mass shootings occur. Get rid of assault rifles, and you won't need armed guards everywhere.

#80 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-27 07:57 PM | Reply

"Get rid of assault rifles, and you won't need armed guards everywhere."

He likes armed guards everywhere.

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 07:59 PM | Reply

Speak,

"So schools full of swat teams"

You mean...like on the TV shows?

#82 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:01 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"He likes armed guards everywhere."

No...strategically placed.

People smarter than you would be hired to evaluate schools.

People who aren't afraid of big bad guns and trained to use them.

Emphasis on trained.

#83 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:04 PM | Reply

"You mean...like on the TV shows?"

Which shows?
What are you even talking about?

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:04 PM | Reply

"People who aren't afraid of big bad guns and trained to use them.
Emphasis on trained."

You're saying the cops aren't those people?
You've completely lost it.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:05 PM | Reply

"No...strategically placed."

There are about 130,000 K-12 schools in the United States.
There are about 700,000 police officers in the Untied States.

So, if we only put police in schools, that's about six cops per school.
Meanwhile, a dozen or more cops weren't confident enough to act on this shooter.

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:07 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

My earlier post said until we figure out a better way to deal with this.

For now our schools need more protection.

It's beginning to look like the kooks are coming out of the woodwork.

For the record...I would like to see much more tighter controls on automatic rifles.

#87 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:08 PM | Reply

"My earlier post said until we figure out a better way to deal with this."

Canada seems to have figured it out.
Why can't you agree with that?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:09 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"Which shows?"

Whichever shows you're imagining.

A-Team...Mr. T.

Or maybe Charlie's Angels.

#89 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:10 PM | Reply

"For now our schools need more protection."

The Second Amendment guarantees our schools will always need more protection, BillJohnson.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:10 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"Canada seems to have figured it out."

Get your passport ready.

#91 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:11 PM | Reply

Canada seems to have figured it out.
Why can't you agree with that?

POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2022-05-27 08:09 PM | REPLY

Because they are libruls and Bill Johnson can't stand libruls.

#92 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 08:12 PM | Reply

"Which shows?"
Whichever shows you're imagining.
A-Team...Mr. T.
Or maybe Charlie's Angels.
#89 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

And which episodes of any of those shows had SWAT teams in K-12 schools?
What are you even talking about?

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:12 PM | Reply

Snoofy,
"Canada seems to have figured it out."
Get your passport ready.
#91 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

This isn't about me.
Why can't we get American schools as ready as Canadian schools?

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 08:12 PM | Reply

Gal,

"You act as if schools are the only places mass shootings occur."

You're trying to read my mind...stop that.

Schools are the word of the day.

Schools...children...safety....children...stay focused...don't let you mind wander...put down that bong.

#95 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:14 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"Why can't we get American schools as ready as Canadian schools?"

Maybe we need a big bad country underneath us providing some insulation so we put more effort in such things instead of drug lords and cartels.

#96 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:18 PM | Reply

For binary thinkers like Bill:

twitter.com

#97 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-27 08:19 PM | Reply

#95 Nope. That's just one of your fallback responses.

#98 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-27 08:20 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"And which episodes of any of those shows had SWAT teams in K-12 schools?"

Who needed a whole SWAT team against the three of them swinging their hair and moving in SLOOOOW motion dogging bullets and never missing?

#99 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:22 PM | Reply

Gal,

"That's just one of your fallback responses."

Well...I thought that was what they thread was....children...safety....

Apparently you're having a different conversation without me.

#100 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 08:26 PM | Reply

@#73 ... It's beginning to look inevitable schools will need more armed trained people. ...

Why does your comment want to try to assuage the symptom instead of solving the root problem?

Do you really think that tuning schools into combat zones is the solution?

#101 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 08:51 PM | Reply

@#101

oops... typo...

tuning schools

- should be -

turning schools

#102 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 08:52 PM | Reply

#100 The fallback response I was referring to is your mind reading schtick.

#103 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-05-27 08:53 PM | Reply

"Why can't we get American schools as ready as Canadian schools?"
Maybe we need a big bad country underneath us providing some insulation so we put more effort in such things instead of drug lords and cartels.

#96 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Oh, okay. Congratulations on finding a way to make American school children be the victims of Mexican drug cartels by proxy.

You really are a disgusting human being. Horrific gun violence tends to bring that to the fore in you, and many others like you, but I digress.

So then Canada gets a pass because America is too close to Mexico. So let's do England. Why doesn't England have school shootings?

You can pick most any country and they don't have school shootings, BillJohnson.

And for those school shootings that do happen elsewhere,
The shooters usually aren't other students or just out of school,
And they didn't do it with a legally obtained semi-automatic rifle.

You're such a piece of ---- for how you refuse to acknowledge these are the reasons why this happens here and nowhere else.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-27 09:01 PM | Reply

Well if the GOP is going to argue that 'everything boils down to states rights', I suggest that in EVERY Blue State that it is possible, where Dems hold a majority,that Common Sense gun laws are enacted ASAP...

By common sense, I mean allow people to have like one bolt action rifle, one shotgun,and one pistol per household, but absolutely clamp down on automatics and semi-automatics...
you should be able to 'check out one to shoot' at a gun range, but they have embedded GPS chips in the stocks, and have to be 'checked back in' at the gun counter for lockup once you leave.

You want some sort of release shooting machine guns, there you go, go to the gun range, check one
out, purchase bullets, shoot till you're tired, check it back in, and go home. Want to still fire
a gun (because you have an untreated addiction to guns) then play a video game, like millions of
responsible teens and kids and adults do already today...
end.

p.s. the GOP cannot legally argue both states rights, and Federal Rights at the same time. They cannot get to 'cherry pick' those laws they dislike, and claim states rights protection (like abortion) and then turn around in the same breath and say a state that cracks down on their Federal Right to own a machine gun is violating their rights, just because they want to have an unlimited amount of guns, ammo, and the right to go shoot 'brown people' the next time they blow a gasket, because their wife left or they
lost their job.

#105 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-05-27 09:04 PM | Reply

Speak,

"So schools full of swat teams"

You mean...like on the TV shows?

#82 | Posted by BillJohnson

Like the dystopia your party has turned this country into.

#106 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-05-27 09:11 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"Congratulations on finding a way to make American school children be the victims of Mexican drug cartels by proxy."

You have me all wrong.

I blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology.

#107 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 09:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Snoofy,

Hasn't always been that way.

It is now.

#108 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 09:22 PM | Reply

I blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-05-27 09:20 PM | REPLY

Of course you do. It's not the liberals who want unfettered access to high powered guns. That's on your party. We aren't the ones who are neglecting the living like your party is doing. The only reason that you blame the liberals is it's easier than taking ownership of your party's horrible actions. Deal with it Bill Johnson.

#109 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-27 09:25 PM | Reply

BillJohnson is the poster child for why people should get abortions.

#110 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-27 09:26 PM | Reply

@#107 ... You have me all wrong.

I blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology. ...

I remain skeptical.

Most of the killing of innocent school children seems to be done by those exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

How do you explain that?

Jus' askin'


thx.

#111 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 09:31 PM | Reply

I blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology.
#107 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Well, you're fkkking re tar did.

So.

Keep on being "special."

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-27 09:34 PM | Reply

Earth,

"You want some sort of release shooting machine guns, there you go, go to the gun range"

This past year I got selected for jury duty for a inner city gun fight.

I got a lot of insight into the gun culture (the city sort....not the country boy who collects guns).

They don't care about the 2nd Amendment.

They aren't hobbyists or collectors.

They carry them for self defense.

I learned how they think. It's instinctive.

I came to the conclusion most people with carry permits would die because they don't have the instinct to pull the trigger.

And I also came to believe people with carry permits should be required to go to ranges and shoot...maybe at least once a year.

Gun ranges are under utilized.

#113 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 09:48 PM | Reply

And I also came to believe people with carry permits should be required to go to ranges and shoot...

So you want to infringe on their rights? Stay out of Texas.

#114 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-05-27 09:51 PM | Reply

We're getting to the point it's becoming apparent we need more armed trained people in schools....

More guns.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

1) This eighteen-year-old UNTRAINED kid deliberately went to a place where he expected to be (and was) met with armed force.

2) All he needed was a couple of AR-15s, which he got with no trouble at all.

3) History shows that YOUR way will get more people killed. By that I mean even more people killed and then afterward even more than that.

4) You love the gun, not the kids.

#115 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-27 09:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Zed,

I don't own a gun.

No interest on my part.

#116 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-27 09:52 PM | Reply

@#113 ... I got a lot of insight into the gun culture (the city sort....not the country boy who collects guns).

They don't care about the 2nd Amendment.

They aren't hobbyists or collectors.

They carry them for self defense.

I learned how they think. It's instinctive....

Who is the "they" that your comment seems to rail against?


#117 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 09:54 PM | Reply

No interest on my part.

#116 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Now, that obviously isn't true. You have a dog in this race, and it's the one that's biting people.

#118 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-27 09:58 PM | Reply

@#115 ... You love the gun, not the kids. ...

OK, I gotta say to the Zed alias.

Most of what the alias posts I think is quite off the rails. A bit too extreme for me.

But the phrase the I quoted, wow.

It is spot on

To the point that I wished I had said it.

#119 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 10:00 PM | Reply

The only way to remove the tactical initiative from mass murderers is well in advance. Starve them of their best weapons. AR-15s have proven themselves the enemy of America. Getting rid of them would be a good start.

#120 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-27 10:00 PM | Reply

"Most of the killing of innocent school children seems to be done by those exercising their 2nd Amendment rights."

Are you lying, or just plain stupid? Probably both.

#121 | Posted by willowby at 2022-05-27 10:13 PM | Reply

@#121 ... Are you lying, or just plain stupid? Probably both ...

So, please provide the evidence to substantiate the comment your alias posted.

Or is your current alias just randomly venting under the attempted guise of posting something rational?

Jus' askin'

thx.

#122 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 10:31 PM | Reply

#120

Good luck. The most popular rifle in America. You'll never get mine or millions of others.

#123 | Posted by willowby at 2022-05-27 10:33 PM | Reply

They aren't hobbyists or collectors.

They carry them for self defense.

I learned how they think. It's instinctive.

#113 | Posted by BillJohnson

Yeah because conservatives have oppressed their community so much that they're now ridden with crime.

#124 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-05-27 10:36 PM | Reply

Emotional support weapons

#125 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-27 10:39 PM | Reply

#122

You're just trolling. There is no right in any amendment to shoot children. Your comment was stupid on its face.

BTW, what's this "current alias" BS? I've been here since 2010, you 2013.

#126 | Posted by willowby at 2022-05-27 10:39 PM | Reply

The party that last week was accusing teachers of grooming children now want them to be armed with assault weapons.

Welcome to your brain on conservatism.

#127 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-27 10:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The most popular rifle in America.

No accounting for taste. Butt ugly pretend army gun.

#128 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-05-27 11:10 PM | Reply

Pillow-boy has been a clown his whole miserable existence.

#129 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-05-27 11:12 PM | Reply

@#122 ... You're just trolling ...

Not really.

I ask you to provide evidence to substantiate your comment, and you accuse me of trolling.

It's a nice deflection attempt, but I do have to say, ya need to try harder.

So far, it seems your current alias has been posting assertions that lack any manner of substantiation.

Not the best way to persuade people to agree with your opinions.

Jus' sayin'


#130 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-27 11:34 PM | Reply

I blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology.
#107 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

If this was 1215, BJ would be complaining about the liberals trying to force the magna Carta and individual rights down everyone's throats.

He'd be crying in 1776 about the liberals and their declaration of independence and the crazy idea of representative democracy.

Anyone want to guess what side BJ would be on during the Civil War? Who thinks he would be siding with the radical liberals opposing slavery?

How many cartons of eggs do you think he would have taken to a Dodgers game in 1947?

#131 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-05-28 12:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bill Johnson has been radicalized by self loathing. He would rather others suffer. I don't get it. I really don't.

#132 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-28 12:21 AM | Reply

#130

Just because you were too stupid to understand what I said isn't my problem. All the substantiation was in my post.

#133 | Posted by willowby at 2022-05-28 12:47 AM | Reply

@#133 ... Just because you were too stupid to understand what I said isn't my problem. ...

Let's look at this...

In #121 your current alias stated

...Are you lying, or just plain stupid? Probably both....

To which I replied in #122

So, please provide the evidence to substantiate the comment your alias posted. ...

To which you reply in #126

You're just trolling.

TLDR...

In #133 your current alias says

Just because you were too stupid to understand what I said isn't my problem. All the substantiation was in my post

The ad hominem attack aside, I note that through all of your comments still have not answered the I made in #122.

So, please provide the evidence to substantiate the comment your alias posted.

Or is your current alias just randomly venting under the attempted guise of posting something rational?


So now, my question is extended to ask, why does your current alias seem to be so adverse to answering a simple request?


#134 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-28 01:14 AM | Reply

@#133

Modest Mouse - Missed the Boat
www.youtube.com

#135 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-05-28 01:42 AM | Reply

"The only way to remove the tactical initiative from mass murderers is well in advance. Starve them of their best weapons. AR-15s have proven themselves the enemy of America. Getting rid of them would be a good start."

I don't understand that logic.

The AR platform (I assume you mean the entire platform, not just the AR-15) you mention is used in only a small number of murders. around 3% or so. In fact in 2019, there were more people beat to death with fists and feet than were killed by rifles.

Why wouldn't you want to go after handguns. They're responsible for 65% of gun deaths in the US.

I just don't totally understand your logic. And it may not be logic...it's very likely an emotional response.

#136 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-28 02:13 AM | Reply

You'll never get mine or millions of others.
#123 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

How self centered are you?

No body wants your guns or rifles or lack of self esteem.

What people want are better laws regarding gun and rifle purchases.

Something that would prevent a mentally unstable individual from buying an AR and 400 bullets and walking into a school to mow down student.

Mental examination. Vision tests. Registration for guns to help track down illegal gun sales.

You fantasy of the government coming to take your guns, in a nation where a constitutional amendment gives you the right to own guns, is delusional.

But you're so scared of losing your precious guns and rifles, you're absolutely unwilling to support any common sense laws to prevent future mass shooting.

Don't you see how you, and people like you, through your refusal to support any change, are responsible for every mentally unstable person or criminal who owns a gun.

You like to present yourself as a reasonable human being.

Figure it out.

#137 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-28 02:14 AM | Reply

"Who thinks he would be siding with the radical liberals opposing slavery?"

Republicans were radical liberals?

#138 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-05-28 02:14 AM | Reply

fact in 2019, there were more people beat to death with fists and feet than were killed by rifles.

In 2020, more people died from the TrumpVirus than we're killed by rifles.

Why were you so against vaccinations, masks and quarantines?

#139 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-28 02:17 AM | Reply

Republicans were radical liberals?
#138 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

In the 1800s, yes.

Don't worry. You're not expected to know American history.

Only German history.

Carry on pretending you're an American.

We all still totally believe it.

#140 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-28 02:20 AM | Reply

Johnny,

You are comparing todays liberals to such significate events?

My...don't we think a lot of ourselves.

#141 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-28 06:50 AM | Reply

Clown,

I don't have anything against radicals.

In fact I admire many radicals of the past.

#142 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-28 06:58 AM | Reply

"There is no right in any amendment to shoot children."

No, there's merely the right to bear arms. If you want to use that right to shoot children, that's up to you.

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-05-28 09:12 AM | Reply

My...don't we think a lot of ourselves.

#141 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-05-28 06:50 AM | REPLY

It sure beats the cult that you joined up with Bill Johnson.

#144 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-28 09:16 AM | Reply

Of course 90% want to protect our children. They want to arm the schools. Wait, the shopping centers too. Might as well be all shops. And offices too. Hell, let's just have a tank parked every corner. Idiots

#145 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2022-05-28 10:53 AM | Reply

Throughout history an arms race (which is what is being discussed) ALWAYS leads to more confrontation and death, except for the nuclear arms race and that is still up in the air given Ukraine.

I suppose the solution is to arm schools with tactical nukes.

#146 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-05-28 11:30 AM | Reply

The AR platform (I assume you mean the entire platform, not just the AR-15) you mention is used in only a small number of murders. around 3% or so.

#136 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

The AR-15 is the weapon of choice in school massacres. Because it is PERFECT for school massacres. Butcher's little children with unmatched efficiency and the law is obviously sacred to death of it.

#147 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-28 12:52 PM | Reply

around 3% or so.

#136 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

A reduction of 3% seems good to me. Doesn't seem good to you? Interesting.

#148 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-28 12:53 PM | Reply

I just don't totally understand your logic.

#136 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

But you'd understand, military man that you are, the logic of not arming Isis or the Taliban.

#149 | Posted by Zed at 2022-05-28 12:56 PM | Reply

My...don't we think a lot of ourselves.
#141 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You sure do, you 3rd person talking ------------.

#150 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-05-28 01:01 PM | Reply

Clown,

You questioning my use of pronouns?

Maybe that's the pronouns we like.

#151 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-05-28 10:21 PM | Reply

To carry on from my post @ #105,

The dems need to frame this as a question of
how much fire power is enough to DEFEND one's
house. My contention is that if you think you
need more than one pistol, one shotgun, and one
bolt action rifle to protect your home, you are
either delusional, paranoid, or think you are
far more important than you are ( i.e. you have
a mental illness) [unless your name is Bill Gates,
or Elon Musk, or some equivalent].

My point is, for 99% of us, one pistol, one bolt
action rifle, and one shotgun are all that are
needed for home defense, and that is how the
argument should be framed.

Semi-automatics and automatics should only
be in the hands of police, S.W.A.T., and the
military. They are weapons of mass destruction,
and should be treated as such (i.e. they need to
be both limited and controled). And again, as I
suggested in #105, gun ranges could be made for
'enthusiasts' to rent them out and shoot them
still. But measures would be taken (the gps chips
in the butt of the guns, and locked cages to house
them within) to make sure access to them remains
monitored and controlled

#152 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-05-28 11:15 PM | Reply

This country isn't going to do crap about mass shootings. It would take courage that the powers that be lack it's sad to say but it's the truth.

#153 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-05-28 11:23 PM | Reply

You are comparing todays liberals to such significate events?
My...don't we think a lot of ourselves.
#141 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You said that you "blame most of America's problems on liberal ideology". Actually you are correct about that. Without liberal principles like liberty, equality and representation we'd be living as slaves to a monarchy and wouldn't have to deal with the problems of today's world.

#154 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-05-29 10:43 AM | Reply

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