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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, June 27, 2022

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that a high school football coach had a constitutional right to pray at the 50-yard line after his team's games.

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Best Pride Month ever....

#1 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-06-27 11:17 AM | Reply

The notion of Pinche believing in G-d is hilarious!

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 11:30 AM | Reply

More idiocy from this court.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-27 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The christofascists on the court are not going to stop until they start a new dark age.

#4 | Posted by qcp at 2022-06-27 11:52 AM | Reply

" More idiocy from this court.

#3 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-06-27 11:49 AM | FLAG: "

How so? I'm not religious but I never understood the problem with a coach kneeling down after a game in a silent prayer.

#5 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 12:21 PM | Reply

ow so? I'm not religious but I never understood the problem with a coach kneeling down after a game in a silent prayer.

#5 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2022-06-27 12:21 PM | FLAG:

Of course you don't see the problem with an authority figure over children making a public display of religion while overseeing kids

Caus you are an -------

#6 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Football is kind of a religion in itself.

#7 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-06-27 12:28 PM | Reply

Caus you are an -------

Is this supposed to be an insult? When you call someone that word, you're equating them a useful and necessary thing. You'd die without one!

#8 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-06-27 12:30 PM | Reply

I can't wait until the Christofascist, Sharia Supremes rule tomorrow that the ------- EPA can't force entire sectors to "decarbonize".

#9 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-06-27 12:33 PM | Reply

My kids attended a Catholic High School.

At all homes games, we always say a prayer from a microphone. Most schools we play are public high schools.

I glance at the opposing side as we say the prayer.....they all stand up and pray. Every time. Players and adults.

#10 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 12:34 PM | Reply

They're also full of ----

#11 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 12:39 PM | Reply

#11. How do you justify a coach doing a silent prayer after a game is a termination act?

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 12:46 PM | Reply

" Of course you don't see the problem with an authority figure over children making a public display of religion while overseeing kids"

I wager you think drag Queen story hour is a great thing.

#13 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 12:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#11. How do you justify a coach doing a silent prayer after a game is a termination act?"

Personally I wouldn't, but I suspect when you do something that they told you not to do, that's called gross insubordination.

Washington isn't a Right to Work state. In a right to work state, your question is rendered moot by the concept of "right to work." Employment is at will and can be terminated for any reason, or no reason at all.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 12:51 PM | Reply

I wager you think drag Queen story hour is a great thing.
#13 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Reading to kids is always a great thing.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 12:52 PM | Reply

Harhar

Just wait until a coach has the kids pray to Lucifer before a game.
It's inevitable
That's when the Karen's will really become unglued and any notion of "religious freedom" will go out the window

#16 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2022-06-27 01:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's amazing that people view someone praying as detestable, yet ripping the child out of a mother's womb after they've began sucking their thumb is a right that shall not be touched.

#17 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:06 PM | Reply

"I never understood the problem"

Can we remember that it's OBAAMA who wants to fundamentally change America and institute Sharia Law

#18 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2022-06-27 01:07 PM | Reply

"after they've began sucking their thumb"

Is this some kind of cute take on the fetal heartbeat concept?

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

View praying as detestable?

Depends on what they are praying for, doesn't it

What if the prayer before the big game was about ripping out fetuses? You ok with that?

#20 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2022-06-27 01:12 PM | Reply

I can't wait until the Christofascist, Sharia Supremes rule tomorrow that the ------- EPA can't force entire sectors to "decarbonize".
#9 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT

Yeah, God Damnit! We shouldn't be sending all our pollution over to China! Let's pollute the ---- out of America for profit!

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-27 01:16 PM | Reply

It's amazing that people view someone praying as detestable, yet ripping the child out of a mother's womb after they've began sucking their thumb is a right that shall not be touched.

#17 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Oh look at you you little hyperventilating cooze.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-27 01:16 PM | Reply

Also, praying is detestable. Exemplifies a weak mind who thinks God gives two ----- about a high school football game.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-27 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah, God Damnit! We shouldn't be sending all our pollution over to China! Let's pollute the ---- out of America for profit!

It's carbon dioxide, -------.

Settle down, Rainbow Warrior.

#24 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-06-27 01:25 PM | Reply

Breathe in 1% carbon dioxide for five minutes and get back to us.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 01:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#11. How do you justify a coach doing a silent prayer after a game is a termination act?

#12 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Depends on the circumstances, i.e. was he told not to, what other incidents are involved. Acting as an authority figure at a public school should preclude him from displays of religiosity, period. Voluntary participation or not, the kids under his authority will view having to pray as part of advancing on the team.

#26 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:28 PM | Reply

Harhar
Just wait until a coach has the kids pray to Lucifer before a game.
It's inevitable
That's when the Karen's will really become unglued and any notion of "religious freedom" will go out the window

#16 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES

Wait until it's Coach Mohammed bin Mohammed praying to the east, you will see heads explode

#27 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:29 PM | Reply

Bell,

"I'm not religious but I never understood the problem with a coach kneeling down after a game in a silent prayer."

If he had unrolled a carpet and prayed to Allah no one would have said a word.

Democrats and Muslims are united they both want to eradicate Christianity.

#28 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 01:29 PM | Reply

It's amazing that people view someone praying as detestable, yet ripping the child out of a mother's womb after they've began sucking their thumb is a right that shall not be touched.

#17 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

It's amazing you think it is any of your ------- business

#29 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wager you think drag Queen story hour is a great thing.

#13 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Praying is a religious phenomenon, Drag queen hour is a cultural phenomenon except to those that think RuPaul in a Goddess

You can understand the difference, right?

#30 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:31 PM | Reply

Depends on what they are praying for, doesn't it
What if the prayer before the big game was about ripping out fetuses? You ok with that?

#20 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES AT 2022-06-27 01:12 PM |

Doesn't matter to me one way or another, that's the freedom of speech.

#31 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:33 PM | Reply

Bell,
"I'm not religious but I never understood the problem with a coach kneeling down after a game in a silent prayer."
If he had unrolled a carpet and prayed to Allah no one would have said a word.
Democrats and Muslims are united they both want to eradicate Christianity.

#28 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Bull ------- ----

Do you think that little joey, who is an athiest, will think that he has to pray to get playing time?

And why is the coach being paid to pray?

#32 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Doesn't matter to me one way or another, that's the freedom of speech.
#31 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

So, if he started screaming ALLAHU ACKBAR! you wouldn't be -------- your pants?

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's amazing you think it is any of your ------- business

#29 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:29 PM | REPLY

As an American, It is my business. What's amazing is that you think no one should have an opinion except for the ones in the septic tank with you.

#34 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:36 PM | Reply

You don't care if a Muslim coach has "the kids" pray for another 9-11 before the big stupid game?

I seriously doubt your sincerity in that

#35 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2022-06-27 01:37 PM | Reply

Yeah, God Damnit! We shouldn't be sending all our pollution over to China! Let's pollute the ---- out of America for profit!

#21 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-06-27 01:16 PM | REPLY

#17 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS
Oh look at you you little hyperventilating cooze.

#22 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-06-27 01:16 PM | REPLY

LMAO, I'm the one hyperventilating? ------- Drama Queen

#36 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:37 PM | Reply

You don't care if a Muslim coach has "the kids" pray for another 9-11 before the big stupid game?
I seriously doubt your sincerity in that

#35 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES AT 2022-06-27 01:37 PM | REPLY |

Not as long as there are no complaints.

#37 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:38 PM | Reply

#35

Even though I'm a non-believer, I bow my head while my wife says grace at the table. She says amen I say Amen Ra.

#38 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:40 PM | Reply

Truth,

"And why is the coach being paid to pray?"

I promise you that coach has been praying on the clock for years.

People are just hating students were joining him and bringing others in by example.

#39 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 01:41 PM | Reply

As an American, It is my business. What's amazing is that you think no one should have an opinion except for the ones in the septic tank with you.

#34 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Sorry, --------------, what a woman does with her body is nunya ------- business

#40 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:43 PM | Reply

Not as long as there are no complaints.

#37 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS A

And if there are complaints, shouldn't he not pray?

#41 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:43 PM | Reply

"As an American, It is my business."

Just like it's your business if gays get married, interracial couples get married, men and women use birth control, or any adult engages in sawed-omy or looks at pornography.

Your "right" to make abortion your business, by denial of the right to privacy of all Americans, makes all those other things your business too.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 01:45 PM | Reply

Was/Is there a $ cost to keeping the stadium operational for the duration of the prayer? If so, who pays that cost?

Are other people/groups/religions permitted to use the stadium during that time? Any time?

#43 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2022-06-27 01:45 PM | Reply

People are just hating students were joining him and bringing others in by example.
#39 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

How many of those children felt obligated to participate?

#44 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:45 PM | Reply

"
#26 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:28 PM | FLAG: "

Holy hell! A rational response on a page that is chock full of BS.

Here is my Cliff's Notes understanding of this based upon what I've read -

After each game this coach went out to the 50 yard line, knelt and said a brief prayer.

His players saw this, some of them thought it was cool and asked if they could join. He said OK and it grew legs to a point where other teams began joining in. That's where he was called in and was told he had to stop because others were joining in. So, he informed his team that they couldn't join him and he continued doing it solo and was fired for it.

#45 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 01:45 PM | Reply

Even though I'm a non-believer, I bow my head while my wife says grace at the table. She says amen I say Amen Ra.

#38 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRD

----

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:46 PM | Reply

" Also, praying is detestable. Exemplifies a weak mind who thinks God gives two ----- about a high school football game.

#23 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-06-27 01:17 PM | FLAG: "

You clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about. Stay in your lane, son.

#47 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 01:47 PM | Reply

His players saw this, some of them thought it was cool and asked if they could join. He said OK and it grew legs to a point where other teams began joining in. That's where he was called in and was told he had to stop because others were joining in. So, he informed his team that they couldn't join him and he continued doing it solo and was fired for it.

#45 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So, iow, he shouldnt have been doing it.

Religion has NO place in a public school except in a religion studies course

#48 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:48 PM | Reply

Jesus taught, "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men ... but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

Truth Hurts

#49 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:49 PM | Reply

Sounds like this coach is a hypocrite, or at least jesus views him as one.

Kind of funny when you think about it

#50 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 01:50 PM | Reply

----

#46 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:46 PM

It's called compromising on things that don't really matter at the end of the day. Something people who lose their spouse likely know very little about. Shoe fit?

#51 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:50 PM | Reply

no one reads matthew anymore.

go pray in the closet.

#52 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-06-27 01:53 PM | Reply

And if there are complaints, shouldn't he not pray?

#41 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:43 PM | REPLY

No one should be forced to pray or participate in any religious thing. They can excuse themselves or if they're offended that much by it, the (public) school should end it.

#53 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:53 PM | Reply

Democrats and Muslims are united they both want to eradicate Christianity.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-06-27 01:29 PM | REPLY

LoL this person votes.

#54 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-06-27 01:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sorry, --------------, what a woman does with her body is nunya ------- business

#40 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:43 PM | REPLY

And yet here you are every day with your gaping pie hole open shouting down everyone with an opinion, just to get your's across.

#55 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 01:57 PM | Reply

No one should be forced to pray or participate in any religious thing. They can excuse themselves or if they're offended that much by it, the (public) school should end it.

#53 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

School did, supreme court said school was wrong

#56 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And yet here you are every day with your gaping pie hole open shouting down everyone with an opinion, just to get your's across.

#55 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS AT

Are you equating my actions with restricting abortions?

#57 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:03 PM | Reply

" So, iow, he shouldnt have been doing it.

Religion has NO place in a public school except in a religion studies course

#48 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 01:48 PM | FLAG: "

I see this as a 1st Amendment violation against this coach.

#58 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

School did, supreme court said school was wrong

#56 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 02:01 PM | REPLY

So basically the coach went on the field after the game and said a prayer. Some of the players went and joined him. At one point some of the opposing teammates also joined in. No one was forced to participate. The only one that complained was school officials.

Who really gives a ----? They all wanted to participate. How is this not an assault on free speech?

#59 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 02:20 PM | Reply

The supremes have become a bunch of busy body republicans. And they will be back in your bedrooms telling you how to have sex (or not) pretty soon. They have just begun to unravel America at the seams. Apparently. And there is a whole lot more coming. Apparently.

No wonder this Supreme Court has lost all legitimacy to most Americans and the rest of the civilized world.

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-06-27 02:22 PM | Reply

Dear Lord,

Please strike down the fascists and religious zealots.

In your name we pray.

Amen.

#61 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-06-27 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Truth,

You're taking it out of context.

Since you're full of hate I'm not surprised.

Don't put on a demonstration for attention and praise is Jesus' point.

Nothing was said about being forbidden to pray in public.

Like I said you're so consumed with hatred you want to see Christians forcibly required to keep their faith private and out of sight.

#62 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 02:25 PM | Reply

The supremes are active participants in the right-wing insurgency our country is currently ignoring.

#63 | Posted by qcp at 2022-06-27 02:26 PM | Reply

So basically the coach went on the field after the game and said a prayer. Some of the players went and joined him. At one point some of the opposing teammates also joined in. No one was forced to participate. The only one that complained was school officials.
Who really gives a ----? They all wanted to participate. How is this not an assault on free speech?

#59 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Because he was acting as an authority for a public school. Acting as an authority for a school, his actions in this instance represent advocacy as opposed to TEACHING-ie where religion is discussed in a classroom setting. He used his authority to advocate for religion. That in and of itself should not be permitted.

But you say players joined him. Well, what was the motivation in joining him? Were some/most of them motivated by a desire to please the coach?
The school officials were taking the correct action. You don't know what complaints they received from parents.

#64 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Truth,
You're taking it out of context.
Since you're full of hate I'm not surprised.
Don't put on a demonstration for attention and praise is Jesus' point.
Nothing was said about being forbidden to pray in public.
Like I said you're so consumed with hatred you want to see Christians forcibly required to keep their faith private and out of sight.
#62 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

I love how religionists twist the alleged jesus' plain language to mean what they want it to mean. IDK this coach. He may be the sincerest person in the world. Or he could be a cynical publicity hound. What I do know is he made a point of publicly praying despite repeated requests by his supervisors not to. That smells of seeking publicity, which jesus seem to condemn.

And yes it is my firm belief that religion has zero place in the public sphere. As explained to you elsewhere, religion, especially christian religion, floods our culture and I personally believe it is all --------.

And I have great concern over politicians who use religion to justify their worldview. I firmly believe that that is dangerous

#65 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:33 PM | Reply

64

You're saying any kid who chooses to not participate is at risk of being marginalized.

Do you understand a kid can be vulnerable to being marginalized all the time in high school with their choices?

There are tons of examples of how a kid can be affected by making a choice. Not participating in a prayer wouldn't make the top 10.

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:34 PM | Reply

" And yes it is my firm belief that religion has zero place in the public sphere. As explained to you elsewhere, religion, especially christian religion, floods our culture and I personally believe it is all --------"

This is one of the primary reasons why we have the 1st Amendment.

#67 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:37 PM | Reply

67

But he thinks it's the other way around. He thinks the 1st amendment is there to protect HIM from seeing the presence of religion anywhere in public.

A better application of the 1st amendment is where it protects the right of people to engage in prayer and those who choose to to engage in prayer....from HIM.

#68 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:40 PM | Reply

You're saying any kid who chooses to not participate is at risk of being marginalized.
Do you understand a kid can be vulnerable to being marginalized all the time in high school with their choices?
There are tons of examples of how a kid can be affected by making a choice. Not participating in a prayer wouldn't make the top 10.

#66 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I am saying an impressionable child may and likely would feel compelled to participate in the coach's prayer. And that is wrong.

#69 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

" And yes it is my firm belief that religion has zero place in the public sphere. As explained to you elsewhere, religion, especially christian religion, floods our culture and I personally believe it is all --------"
This is one of the primary reasons why we have the 1st Amendment.

#67 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

The 1st amendment also effectively separates church and state. So, you are wrong.

#70 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:41 PM | Reply

But he thinks it's the other way around. He thinks the 1st amendment is there to protect HIM from seeing the presence of religion anywhere in public.
A better application of the 1st amendment is where it protects the right of people to engage in prayer and those who choose to to engage in prayer....from HIM.

#68 | POSTED BY EBERLY

If you can't understand the danger and damage of a public school forcing or coercing children to participate in prayer, well there is no hope in explaining it to you.

#71 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:43 PM | Reply

The 1st Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law ... ."

This has northi g to do with making law at any level including the fact that this coach didn't ask his players to pray explicitly, or more importantly, implicitly.

#72 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:44 PM | Reply

#71

There was no force or coercion

#73 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:45 PM | Reply

I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game. According to this ruling, he will be protected by the first amendment.

#74 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 02:46 PM | Reply

-a public school forcing or coercing children to participate in prayer,

that's just your accusation. As you said, You don't know this coach nor his intentions. You're just assigning the "forcing or coercing" on him.

And as I said, students can be victims of marginalization worse than this.

How about the same coach who also teaches social studies but hates boys who go out for cross country and makes their life hell up to and including giving out worse grades?

THAT goes on 50 fold in schools more than this concern over a choice to not participate in a prayer.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:47 PM | Reply

-The 1st amendment also effectively separates church and state.

By banning the coach from forcing or coercing a kid into praying if they don't want to.

Not by banning the prayer itself.

#76 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:49 PM | Reply

I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game. According to this ruling, he will be protected by the first amendment.

Of course he would. Why wouldn't he?

#77 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-06-27 02:50 PM | Reply

-I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game. According to this ruling, he will be protected by the first amendment.

It's not that far fetched. It's not like public high schools have completely ignored the Muslim faith especially in football.

www.nytimes.com

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:50 PM | Reply

This has northi g to do with making law at any level including the fact that this coach didn't ask his players to pray explicitly, or more importantly, implicitly.

#72 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Nonsense, what happened was this coach was doing his prayer to the point where numerous players and other teams were getting involved. So it was more than a simple guy stepping aside and bowing his head. To the point where it was becoming a "thing". He was told to stop and didnt.

you are simply wrong in stating he didn't ask his player implicitly. Having raised sons who played football and observed their relationship with their coach, it would have been absolutely understood that if you want playing time or a college recommendation you keep the coach happy. Again, this guy might be the sincerest person in the world, but the fact is his players would want to please him including, likely going along with his praying. And we don't know whether he asked explicitly-though I suspect given his history of public praying with his team which he previously stopped that he may have in some manner.

So, you have impressionable kids who reasonably would go along with public prayer to keep a coach happy. And that is wrong.

#79 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And as I said, students can be victims of marginalization worse than this."

That doesn't make this particular marginalization okay... does it?

"How about the same coach who also teaches social studies but hates boys who go out for cross country and makes their life hell up to and including giving out worse grades?"

Where's the Constitutional issue there?

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 02:52 PM | Reply

I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game. According to this ruling, he will be protected by the first amendment.

#74 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2022-06-27 02:46 PM | FLAG:

Yep. The 1st protects it.

#81 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:52 PM | Reply

There are tons of examples of how a kid can be affected by making a choice. Not participating in a prayer wouldn't make the top 10.
#66 | POSTED BY EBERLY

And we know from history that people in positions of power often use their position to force their religious beliefs upon others and discriminate against those who do not share their beliefs. Reminds me of my 8th grade science teacher who gave me an F on a test because I gave answers based on evolution which she denied. After I complained to the principal and got her removed from teaching science her son suckered punched me as I rounded a corner going to class one day. She claimed to have witnessed the incident and said I started a fight. Teachers have no business putting their religious views on display in public schools. It is an establishment of religion.

#82 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-06-27 02:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There was no force or coercion

#73 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

How do you know? If you know anything about high school football, the perception and in many ways, reality is that kids feel they have to be a coach's pet to get playing time. And if you have a coach a publicly religious coach kids will feel compelled to publicly pray to get playing time.

#83 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:54 PM | Reply

" So, you have impressionable kids who reasonably would go along with public prayer to keep a coach happy. And that is wrong.

#79 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 02:51 PM | FLAG: "

You are conflating your own personal belief of right/wrong with what forms of express are protected by the Constitution. Or not.

I think this opinion is well grounded in the Constitution.

#84 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:56 PM | Reply

that's just your accusation. As you said, You don't know this coach nor his intentions. You're just assigning the "forcing or coercing" on him.
And as I said, students can be victims of marginalization worse than this.
How about the same coach who also teaches social studies but hates boys who go out for cross country and makes their life hell up to and including giving out worse grades?
THAT goes on 50 fold in schools more than this concern over a choice to not participate in a prayer.

#75 | POSTED BY EBERLY

So, 2 wrongs make a right? I don't get your point. I may not know the coach, but I know youth sports and high school football quite well and I would be shocked if a bunch of 16 year olds didnt feel like they had to please coach prayerface to make sure they got a starting linebacker position.

#85 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:57 PM | Reply

-That doesn't make this particular marginalization okay... does it?

You mean the accusation of marginalization?

Not actual marginalization......because you have zero evidence of that.

-Where's the Constitutional issue there?

I could make one up involving the classroom if you'd like. Like say....the history teacher doesn't like Mexicans or gays.

#86 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:57 PM | Reply

By banning the coach from forcing or coercing a kid into praying if they don't want to.
Not by banning the prayer itself.

#76 | POSTED BY EBERLY A

And when that prayer becomes a whole "thing" to the point that a public school's football field is becoming a prayer circle after a game, the school rightfully tried to put a stop to it.

Because as sure as god made little green apples not everyone was happy to participate or see that.

#87 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 02:58 PM | Reply

How do you know? TruthHurts

I'm going off what I've read. I have yet to see an allegation of coercion or lack of participation shaming.

#88 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 02:59 PM | Reply

82

Perfect example of what I'm talking about.

That stuff happens all the time. Not praying before or after a football game I'll admit is a slippery slope but it's not a significant as so many other ways kids can fall victim to such lunacy.

#89 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 02:59 PM | Reply

Maybe a female Wiccan coach will say a silent prayer after a soccer game, and a bunch of girls will gather around her of their on free will. Glad to know that too will be protected. Ditto a Jewish coach expressing his/her constitutional right in much the same way. I'd rather eschew all of these displays. Let silent prayers be just that when public schools are involved.

#90 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 02:59 PM | Reply

I hope Muslim teachers take advantage of this ruling. ... .and watch the MAGA'ts "Nugent" in their pants.

#91 | Posted by a_monson at 2022-06-27 03:00 PM | Reply

Christian Sharia law is getting out of hand.

#92 | Posted by a_monson at 2022-06-27 03:00 PM | Reply

I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game. According to this ruling, he will be protected by the first amendment.

Of course he would. Why wouldn't he?

#77 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT

The 1st Amendment won't protect him from death threats in many areas of our mutual home state.

You KNOW that.

#93 | Posted by Zed at 2022-06-27 03:00 PM | Reply

-Having raised sons who played football and observed their relationship with their coach, it would have been absolutely understood that if you want playing time or a college recommendation you keep the coach happy.

And that included tolerating his religious zealotry?

Is that what happened to your sons? were they victims of such a thing?

#94 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:02 PM | Reply

You are conflating your own personal belief of right/wrong with what forms of express are protected by the Constitution. Or not.
I think this opinion is well grounded in the Constitution.

#84 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You are aware that the SC regularly prevented government practice if it advanced a religious agenda, right? IOW until this decision the SC held that unless there was a secular purpose the practice was forbidden.

#95 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:03 PM | Reply

I'm going off what I've read. I have yet to see an allegation of coercion or lack of participation shaming.

#88 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Read the dissent's opinion

#96 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:04 PM | Reply

-Because as sure as god made little green apples not everyone was happy to participate or see that.

And so you are determined to make sure folks don't have to participate in it NOR EVEN SEE IT?

Again, YOU are what the founders had in mind when drafting the 1st amendment.

NOT this coach.

#97 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:04 PM | Reply

And that included tolerating his religious zealotry?
Is that what happened to your sons? were they victims of such a thing?

#94 | POSTED BY EBERLY A

I live in a state where separation of church and state is strong. Also, since I live in a very diverse area, with the teams being filled with Patricks, Mohammeds, Patels, Hideckis and Joshuas, the schools tend to realize that keeping religion out of the discussion is in everyone's best interest

#98 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:07 PM | Reply

Coaches of any religious stripe drawing attention to themselves by offering silent prayers on public school playing fields has the potential to border on religious grooming to me. Again, it is possible to offer a silent, private prayer without anyone knowing.

#99 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 03:07 PM | Reply

If republicans actually cared about children, they wouldn't support tackle football in schools.

#100 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2022-06-27 03:08 PM | Reply

-Because as sure as god made little green apples not everyone was happy to participate or see that.
And so you are determined to make sure folks don't have to participate in it NOR EVEN SEE IT?
Again, YOU are what the founders had in mind when drafting the 1st amendment.
NOT this coach.

#97 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Again, the reality is that this little prayer was becoming a "thing", players from his team and the opposing team's coaches and players were going to the middle of the field, like a prayer circle. And again, a prayer circle has no place in a public school

#101 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#90 Gal Tuesday

I find people wearing pink ----- hats to be offensive. I don't want it to be illegal.

Ultimately my question is - is this the hill you ant to die on? The 1st protects a LOT of stuff. If I were a dictator I'd have Truthhurts dressed up like the Gimp with a massive--------. But I respect the 1st way more so I want him to spew inanities with impunity.

I'm a magnanimous guy and any decent person would acknowledge it and bow down in gratitude.

#102 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 03:11 PM | Reply

"players from his team and the opposing team's coaches and players were going to the middle of the field, like a prayer circle"

It's the display that bothers you. That they are allowed to "display" it.

Got it.

#103 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:13 PM | Reply

I could make one up involving the classroom if you'd like. Like say....the history teacher doesn't like Mexicans or gays.
#86 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I think we had the same history teacher!
But, not liking someone doesn't raise a Constitutional issue.
Acting because of your prejudice against someone might, depending on the action.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 03:13 PM | Reply

If I were a dictator I'd have Truthhurts dressed up like the Gimp with a massive--------.

That says alot about you ballwasher

#105 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:14 PM | Reply

t's the display that bothers you. That they are allowed to "display" it.
Got it.

#103 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Noooooo, the school took action because the display got out of hand. I believe that advocating for religion has zero place in school.

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 03:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#102 but you wouldn't want TH to do that on the 50 yard line after a high school football game if he was a coach, would you?

#107 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 03:19 PM | Reply

I think we all knew this was the decision coming down.

I see nothing wrong with what he's doing - as long as the players were being forced to pray along or being penalized in any way for not praying along.

#108 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-06-27 03:20 PM | Reply

I don't blame the school for taking the action they did. Under the circumstances I completely understand why they felt they had to stop it.

I'm surprised at the decision, frankly.

But there are obviously different schools of thought on freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

This decision says the display and the prayer itself is fine but nobody can be forced to participate.

And the folks who think it's wrong to even see the display can pound sand. That right doesn't exist.

#109 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:21 PM | Reply

-the school took action because the display got out of hand.

what do you mean, "out of hand"?

That it happened at all?

#110 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:22 PM | Reply

Interesting retort on this decision.....

www.msn.com

#111 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-27 03:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Noooooo, the school took action because the display got out of hand. I believe that advocating for religion has zero place in school.

#106 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-06-27 03:15 PM

Someone either didn't read the article or has comprehension issues.

The "school" was silent until a coach from an opposing team told the principal that it was "cool" that is FB coach said a prayer on the field. It was then that the "school" told Kennedy to stop. Keep in mind that Kennedy did this for 8 years prior to school releasing him.

If you're going to bitch about something, at least get your facts straight.

#112 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-06-27 03:44 PM | Reply

twitter.com

"Quiet, private prayer." Nope.

#113 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 05:51 PM | Reply

#113 That picture should make for some hilarious deflections!

He was privately leading the public prayer circle. And his voice was quiet, compared to his love for Jesus.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 05:55 PM | Reply

slate.com

Basically, Gorsuch lied in his opinion about what was going on. I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Post Trump America is a fact free America.

#115 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 05:58 PM | Reply

The founding fathers would be like what do you mean there are catholics on the supreme court!!!

#116 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 05:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Someone either didn't read the article or has comprehension issues.
The "school" was silent until a coach from an opposing team told the principal that it was "cool" that is FB coach said a prayer on the field. It was then that the "school" told Kennedy to stop. Keep in mind that Kennedy did this for 8 years prior to school releasing him.
If you're going to bitch about something, at least get your facts straight.
#112 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

You're post didn't age well

#117 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 06:00 PM | Reply

www.nbcnews.com

This from a parent who witnessed the prayer circles.

#118 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.scotusblog.com

"multiple instances" of parents who told the school district that their sons felt pressured to pray: They believed they had to "pray to play" and to "feel part of the team."

Even Kennedy admits: "two players ever expressed possible discomfort with the prayers: one player who described himself as an agnostic and a second who said that he did not believe in God and did not want to participate."

#119 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 06:19 PM | Reply

Bong Hits 4 Jesus!

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 06:24 PM | Reply

This from a parent who witnessed the prayer circles.

Interesting - and admittedly my take above was just an off the cuff one, as I didn't get into the details.

So these prayer sessions were done right after meeting with the team? Or did he bring the entire team together simply to pray?

I just figured he was kneeling down at the 50 by himself while walking off and players started joining him..........

#121 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-06-27 06:37 PM | Reply

Gal,

This man is a coach of a team. He's a team builder and it's his job to establish comradery.

I'm sure he has many mandatory events the players must attend.

This wasn't mandatory but so what even if it was.

You would care less if it was anything but praying.

The Supreme Court ruled the man was within his Constitutional rights.

#122 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 07:05 PM | Reply

Bras,

The coach wouldn't have been fired if he had been Muslim.

They're untouchable.

Or at least no one will dare.

#123 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 07:19 PM | Reply

Let me say I was put in a position similar to this while in high school. My parents didn't take it to court back then and I think my mother thought I should join in. Actually it was just my mother left at the time. I didn't "pray with the team". I already had enough with religion at that point. Not necessarily God but religion. Since I didn't take part, I didn't get playing time. I quit. Any of the major religions are for the weak of mind or manipulators.

#124 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2022-06-27 07:25 PM | Reply

Galax,

Of course that's why you didn't get playing time.

You sure?

#125 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 07:27 PM | Reply

multiple instances" of parents who told the school district that their sons felt pressured to pray: They believed they had to "pray to play" and to "feel part of the team

It's not about feelings or what they believe, they could be wrong; did they ask the coach?
They need to prove that they would be descriminated against for not participating.

#126 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-06-27 07:27 PM | Reply

Galax,

Maybe you just weren't a team player and your attitude about religion was just one aspect.

#127 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 07:28 PM | Reply

If someone's attitude about religion keeps them off the team, then they are being discriminated on basis of religion.

You can see that, right?

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-27 07:33 PM | Reply

Galax,

Were you being required to memorize Bible verses or just stand there?

Frankly...I don't think your heart was into the whole team thing if you ask me.

People are getting their heads filled with all sorts of BS like "you have a right to never hear religious talk"...or "any place that has tax dollars must be a religion free zone".

#129 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 07:38 PM | Reply

Any high school coach or teacher leading their players/students in prayer, even if optional, is coercive.

#130 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2022-06-27 07:48 PM | Reply

#129 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

I think people have their heads filled with the idea they don't have to experience anything that makes them uncomfortable.

Much like kneeling for BLM at the high school level. Its all the same thing, the first amendment protects the coach from people that want to oppress religion in the public square. These same people will argue you should be subjected to political speech. ..

#131 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-06-27 07:49 PM | Reply

Any high school coach or teacher leading their players/students in prayer, even if optional, is coercive.
#130 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS

What about BLM kneeling or on the uniform? Would that be considered coercive? Or is it just religion that is coercive?

#132 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-06-27 07:50 PM | Reply

One,

"BLM kneeling"

You're taking it out of context.

I don't think most people objected to kneeling or defending black rights issues.

People saw it as insulting America kneeling during the National Anthem.

I can see where you might be confusing the two since the same people might hate both Christianity and American nationalism.

#133 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 08:01 PM | Reply

" people that want to oppress religion in the public square."

Would you be willing to have 24/7 propaganda from the Muslim religion in the Public Square?

If not, you just answered your own concern.

#134 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 08:12 PM | Reply

One,

"I think people have their heads filled with the idea they don't have to experience anything that makes them uncomfortable."

The Lemon Test has failed and people will just learn to be uncomfortable.

That's America.

#135 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-27 08:15 PM | Reply

" I'm not religious but I never understood the problem with a coach kneeling down after a game in a silent prayer."

These are the same folks who would blow a gasket if the coach in Dearborn suggested everyone bring their prayer rugs and worship to the east once the game is over.

#136 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 08:15 PM | Reply

Except that one example (yours) is compulsory and the other is not.

#137 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 08:24 PM | Reply

Huh? How is yours not?

#138 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 08:28 PM | Reply

Or mine compulsory?

#139 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 08:28 PM | Reply

#138 no athlete was required to pray.

And they weren't subject to code red if they didn't.

#140 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 08:29 PM | Reply

Same with mine;

Why are you pretending they're different?

#141 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 08:31 PM | Reply

Jesus Wins Again!

#142 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2022-06-27 08:39 PM | Reply

glance at the opposing side as we say the prayer.....they all stand up and pray. Every time. Players and adults.

I was an out of the closet atheist in high school at a private religious school. I played soccer and baseball and we said the lord's prayer before every match/game. I stood silently because that seemed like the polite thing to do. I wanted to be a good teammate. But the religious nonsense still got to me.
Why are you pointing to the sky? Jesus didn't put the ball on a plate in the box, I did. It's insulting and you don't forget it. It's so ubiquitous I doubt religious people are even conscience they are doing it.

Imagine if atheists used every public display of religious plumage to insult, harass and belittle people in the same way the religious insult us daily. Can we target your children with Lucretius or Spinoza the way you target ours? What if we went around knocking on doors early on Saturday mornings to tell you this is the only life you get and you are wasting time on ancient hokum. Is it my First Amendment right to tell your children they are delusional, that they are being mislead and lied to?

#143 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-27 08:40 PM | Reply

" These are the same folks who would blow a gasket if the coach in Dearborn suggested everyone bring their prayer rugs and worship to the east once the game is over."

Compulsory.

#144 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 09:00 PM | Reply

Point missed by the ignorami in this thread is that this court just threw out the establishment clause

You originalists are the ultimate in hypocrites cause this is a blatant destruction of the intent of the first amendment which has been upheld for decades

A public official cannot preach on the job

Until today

This is simply the creeping of the the theocratic fascists

The coach was not prohibited from praying
A public official was prohibited
No longer
The funny thing is that the restriction was to protect religions as much as protect people from religion

Cause you intertwine government and religion will corrupt the church

Of course that corruption has been ongoing for decades so yay I suppose

#145 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:01 PM | Reply

It's not an Islam issue.

That is just your false assumption of bigotry bleeding through

#146 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 09:01 PM | Reply

#145. His firing was clearly a 1st Amendnent violation.

#147 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 09:02 PM | Reply

" These are the same folks who would blow a gasket if the coach in Dearborn suggested everyone bring their prayer rugs and worship to the east once the game is over."
Compulsory.

#144 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You're either lying or ignorant. Anyone who knows high school sports knows how kids try to keep on the coach's good side, even beyond that, kids want to fit in. ---- even the coach admitted kids felt compelled. School reported multiple complaints. The parents of the athletes reported the compulsion. You either lie or ignore those facts

#148 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:05 PM | Reply

#145. His firing was clearly a 1st Amendnent violation.

#147 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Yep a properly enforced action by the school to protect themselves from lawsuits over the Establishment clause, not against "free speech"
that is until the theocratic 6 threw that out the window

#149 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:07 PM | Reply

In 2020, 47% of Americans said they belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque, down from 50% in 2018 and 70% in 1999. Line graph. U.S. church membership was 73% in 1937 when Gallup first measured it. It stayed near 70% through 2000 before beginning to decline, to 61% in 2010 and 47% in 2020.

I wonder if some of that is the perception by the public that church, synagogue, mosques are becoming too political?

#150 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:09 PM | Reply

" It's not an Islam issue."

Pick your poison. You remember the flack when the Dearborn coach wanted to have midnight practices, right? Only Christians were pissed off at that.

You wouldn't want 24/7 Islam propaganda. If you don't want that, but you're OK with 24/7 Christian propaganda, you're part of the problem. And if you can't see the default is 24/7 Christian propaganda, you're not paying attention.

#151 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-27 09:24 PM | Reply

digitalcommons.liberty.edu

The Pew Research Center believes that the rise of nones in the United States is in part
due to what they call political backlash. Pew looked at research from Michael Hout and Claude
S. Fischer that suggests that the rise in the none population may be the result of people,
specifically young adults, avoiding organized religion because they have rejected how churches
involve themselves in conservative politics. Hout and Fischer indicate that they believe that the
increase in the nones population is a symbolic response to oppose the "Religious Right." Pew
claims that Hout and Fischer found evidence from various surveys supporting their thesis.14

Unfortunately many, including those affiliated with the Church,
have adopted the position that religious organizations like churches are too focused on money,
materialism, rules, and politics.

these perceptions were so egregious in the minds of Millennials that, even though 87
percent of them believe in God, 56 percent have avoided or suspended the practice of attending
worship services because they believed that church practices were antithetical to what Jesus
preached

LOL!!!!!

#152 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:25 PM | Reply

"The Supreme Court ruled the man was within his Constitutional rights."

And the SC lied in their ruling in order to do it:

To reach his conclusion, Gorsuch simply rewrote the facts. In his account, Kennedy had been suspended exclusively for his silent prayer"not the spectacle he created by hijacking football games with prayer circles. And because this prayer was allegedly so "quiet," it qualified as "private" expression shielded by the First Amendment. The coach's prayer, Gorsuch insisted, was "not delivered as an address to the team, but instead in his capacity as a private citizen." So even though he was in the middle of a field that he could only access because he was performing his job responsibilities, his speech bore no imprint of government approval, and was totally unconnected to his work as a coach.

As Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote in dissent, Gorsuch's "myopic framing" contradicts precedent that requires courts to assess the "taint" of "past practice," because "reasonable observers have reasonable memories." To promote its preferred narrative, the court had to ignore Kennedy's "years of inappropriately leading students in prayer in the same spot, at that same time, and in the same manner." Sotomayor also criticized the majority's whole repudiation of Lemon, the endorsement test, and the "reasonable observer" standard. But she pointed out that the opinion goes further than that: It also defanged the very heart of establishment clause jurisprudence, the principle that states may not coerce individuals into worship. "The coercive pressures" of Kennedy's conduct were "obvious"; even Justice Brett Kavanaugh acknowledged during oral arguments that students might fear retaliation if they did not join. In case there was any doubt, students did come forward to attest that they felt coerced into prayer.

Gorsuch's response to these kids? Get over it. "Learning how to tolerate" public prayer, he wrote, is just "part of learning how to live in a pluralistic society." A "tolerant citizenry" must live with the coercion of children into a particular faith at school; so long as they are not forced to join at risk of formal retaliation, they have no right to demand the freedom from indoctrination in their schools.


Any idiot with eyes can see from the photo in the article that Gorsuch lied:

slate.com

The only reason the SC majority doesn't care about this display of public prayer is because it is Christian in nature. If the teacher was a Wiccan and was saying Wiccan prayers with students gathered around, I doubt they'd be so tolerant. I think all religious prayers should be left out of the equation by public school coaches at the end of games. That doesn't make me anti-Christan or anti-Wiccan. That makes me pro-separation between church and state.

#153 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 09:27 PM | Reply

In short, as Churches become more entwined with politics and stray from the teachings of jesus (ie praying in the public square), drives people AWAY from church.

So, again, the Establishment clause, trying to keep religion out of government practice is designed to PROTECT churches-the founding fathers understood it, it was understood until recently with the rise of the prosperity gospel and politicly active churches.

As an aside, this Coach Kennedy seems to me to have intentionally pushed to get fired so he could sue.

#154 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-27 09:31 PM | Reply

I hear that Colin Kaepernick is planning an NFL comeback.

He's going to claim to be praying when he takes a knee out there.

That was funnier when Trae Crowder told it.

#155 | Posted by Corky at 2022-06-27 09:33 PM | Reply

Interesting retort on this decision.....
www.msn.com
#111 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2022-06-27 03:44 PM

That is indeed an interesting article. The author is a Christian, and yet he felt uncomfortable and disagreed with the prayers delivered by the Steelers' defensive captain each week.

Rather than letting the individual players decide if, when and how they pray, the justices empowered coaches to inflict their prayers on their teams. And high school coaches exert far more influence on their players than our defensive captain did on me.

It is highly unlikely that players on any given team will find their coach's prayer agreeable.

If a team reflects the religious affiliations of the American people as reported by Pew Research, then about 63% of the players will identify as Christians. That would mean a 60-person football squad includes 22 players who are not professing Christians (enough players to fill an entire offensive unit and defensive unit).

And the self-declared Christians are subjected to prayers that may represent interpretations contrary to their beliefs and practices. Some would see praying on the 50-yard line as violating Jesus' admonition to avoid praying on street corners in order to make a show before people. Others may view Christian faith as a moral code to live by yet they may have to listen to a fundamentalist go on about people being lost or saved and heading to hell or heaven.

Or, if the coach is non-Christian, say a Muslim, Christian players must listen to a non-Christian prayer.

When an individual player prays before, during or after a game, it is a voluntary act--a matter of conscience. When a coach leads a prayer, his players are a captive audience who must listen to his ideas, not theirs.

The ruling also violates the First Amendment bar concerning a religious establishment. It permits a public school official to vocalize his or her particular prayer to a captive audience. And coaches are powerful authority figures. They decide who plays and who does not. When coaches initiate a prayer and invite players to participate, the players either conform and listen to, or at least sit through, that prayer or risk their places on the team.


www.msn.com

#156 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 09:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't care what the SC says to justify this ruling; it's a bad ruling and further undercuts any legitimacy the court once had. That they had to lie to justify the ruling just proves yet again that they are a bunch of dishonest rightwing hacks.

#157 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 09:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Kneeling in prayer on the 50 yard line after a game is okay, but whatever you do, don't go to mid-field and assume the lotus position:

Exchange seen on Twitter--

How are schools going to like it when teachers or other school staff want to lead students in Muslim prayer? Or Buddhist?

THEY FREAKED OUT ABOUT YOGA FFS

twitter.com

Namaste!

#158 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-27 11:48 PM | Reply

#158 It was determined that there was no leading.

#159 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-27 11:49 PM | Reply

Determined by who? The liar Gorsuch? Hell of a thing when a SC justice lies to get the job and then lies in a filing in order to justify the case. Amazing balls. And total disdain for the rule of law from the highest court in the land. This country is well and truly lost.

#160 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 12:01 AM | Reply

This country is well and truly lost.

In a way it's just gone full circle. A people fleeing religious persecution are now the persecutors.

"Maybe we just need to form our selfs a new government, just a little further out West, like the Declaration of Independence says to."

#161 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 12:29 AM | Reply

Sorry, but a coach is the team "dad". Lots of kids who play afterschool sports have crap fatherts. Any man that is there is looked up to. This 'religious' coach took advantage of his position and status. Become a pastor instead of a coach if it means so much. I bet he would have less kids listening if he was just some rando old man talking to teens. Lame. Religion poisons everything!

#162 | Posted by Brennnn at 2022-06-28 12:37 AM | Reply

"162 | POSTED BY BRENNNN"

Jesus Christ.

Praise be to God.

Glory to the highest.

Amen.

....Are you triggered?

#163 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 12:45 AM | Reply

"Determined by who? The liar Gorsuch?

#160 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2022-06-28 12:01 AM | REPLY"

It was determined by the facts and evidence entered into the case.

I hate to break it to you but even religious people are afforded due process in our constitutional system and the 1st Amendment even applies to people you strongly dislike - who are the same people Truthhurts would like to impose death by slow torture just for existing.

#164 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 12:48 AM | Reply

In God we trust

That one really must burn like hydrochloric acid on a sea shell to liberals.

#165 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 12:51 AM | Reply

I don't dislike religious people. Some of the best people I know are religious people, but I wouldn't want them raising helmets snd praying on the 50 yard line after a game if they were public school coaches. Like I said, I m not anti-religious. I'm pro separation of church and state.

#166 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 01:00 AM | Reply

#166

Fine. There is a difference between what you like or dislike and what is permissible under the 1st Amendment.

#167 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 01:01 AM | Reply

Sure, which is why Gorsuch had to lie about the facts and evidence to make his case that this was about the coach's first amendment rights.

#168 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 01:06 AM | Reply

The 1st is just that. Your hostility toward this guy is a big reason why we have the 1st.

#169 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 01:07 AM | Reply

what is permissible under the 1st Amendment.

Does it matter that the children subject to this obscene display have no right to free speech (or any other Constitutional protection) on school grounds or at a school function?

In God we trust
That one really must burn

It ought to burn the faithful. Your god is being used by the government to loan legitimacy to fiat currency. About 90% of it has cocaine residue, I put a fair bit of it there myself. You think god approves?
Think of all the horrid things happening around the world right now in pursuit of US bank notes, each carefully sealed in the name of your god.
The reason you dont feel ashamed is because it's your god. Like every religious zealot in history you're prepared, perhaps eager, to use your god as a weapon against other people. And there is no greater weapon of control than money.

what you like or dislike and what is permissible under the 1st Amendment.
Just to be clear, if the coach were to sacrifice a goat on the 50 yard line every Friday night, and other kids wanted to participate in this scapegoating, it would be a First Amendment privilege?

#170 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 01:40 AM | Reply

"Does it matter that the children subject to this obscene display have no right to free speech (or any other Constitutional protection) on school grounds or at a school function?"

They have all sorts of free rights. They can scoff at it. They can ignore it. They can even join in, until they were told they couldn't, regardless of how they felt about it.

"Just to be clear, if the coach were to sacrifice a goat on the 50 yard line every Friday night, and other kids wanted to participate in this scapegoating, it would be a First Amendment privilege?"

Do you really expect me to take that absurd "equivalence" seriously? You are drifting into Snoofy territory with that garbage.

#171 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 01:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They have all sorts of free rights. They can scoff at it.
They only have rights up to the moment the school decides they are "disruptive". What if scoffing brings ridicule or pressure?
In exactly the same way your refusal to answer the above is an answer, not participating is participating. The SC is forcing a kid to make a public affirmation of faith it in front half the town and most of their classmates.

Do you really expect me to take that absurd "equivalence" seriously?
Take it any way you want.
I'll tone it down. Let's say it's a stuffed goat. Coach follows all the appropriate magic spells and whatnot and puts everyone's sins on the goat so they might me born again. Totally inline with christian teaching.
Now would it be ok?

#172 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 02:58 AM | Reply

He knelt at midfield for a few seconds after games.

Equating that to animal sacrifice is beyond absurd.

#173 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 03:08 AM | Reply

If you want to criticize the court opinion you need to do it in context. There was no animal sacrifice made by the coach. None.

#174 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 03:11 AM | Reply

He knelt at midfield for a few seconds after games.

Why do you feel the urge to minimize?

I'm not equating anything, you are. Consider the stuffed goat unrelated to this particular public affirmation. We can even substitute some other christian ritual if you have some emotional connection with goats or whatever. Say, snake handling center court? First Amendment expression or no?

#175 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 03:44 AM | Reply

I wonder how people would react had the coach taken a prayer carpet to the 50 yard line and started praying to Allah.

Bet it would be considered terrorism. Or indoctrination.

Regardless. Republicans would be crying about it.

#176 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-06-28 03:54 AM | Reply

Gotta take a shield drum, sweet grass braid, and some matches to the next Rose Bowl game for some of that good old equal time treatment.

#177 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2022-06-28 05:57 AM | Reply

So he kneels in the middle of the field so all eyes are on him, and no one thinks he's doing this to call attention to himself being a "good Christian?" No one thinks he's not coercing his team members? If Jesus actually existed I think he's have a few things to say about performative christianity.

#178 | Posted by RJSquirrel at 2022-06-28 06:50 AM | Reply

I have to wonder:

When some players cheat and some of the honest players are seriously injured and the team with the most sinners wins the game ... . does the coach return to the 50-yard line and publicly chastise God for failing to do His job?

#179 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 07:00 AM | Reply

"Not everything school employees do during work hours is official conduct,".... If it were, he said, "a school could fire a Muslim teacher for wearing a head scarf in the classroom or prohibit a Christian aide from praying quietly over her lunch in the cafeteria."

The moron who wrote the above has a seat on the bench for life.
This isnt a drill, folks.

Happy Extinction.

#180 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 07:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"He knelt at midfield for a few seconds after games."

How is this a few seconds? It would have taken longer than that for this crowd to assemble:

www.nbcnews.com

#181 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 07:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

publicly chastise God for failing to do His job?

The rules seem kinda vague.

At the '83 Egg Bowl the wind blew a laced field goal back across the line of scrimmage and Ole Miss won the game. This was, rightly so, seen as proof god was a Rebel. Presumably he also caused four turnovers in the 4th quarter but that is unconfirmed. A few years later, during Ole Miss's first failed attempt to ban the Confederate flag at games, god withdrew his support in disgust and chose to smite one of the uppity negros by making Chucky Mullins a quadriplegic.

God's allegiance in the SEC is now unclear. Arch signed with Texas so make of that what you will.

Hotty Toddy.

#182 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 07:40 AM | Reply

BTW, you should read the above article written by a parent who knows the coach personally and worked with him for 15 years but doesn't want him, or any other coaches, leading students, who may feel they have to pray to play, to pray on the 50 yard line while the whole town watches:

I wish I'd known sooner that Kennedy was praying with students during those postgame pep talks. I would have spoken up because I--like most of the Bremerton parents I've talked with--know it's wrong for a public school coach to abuse his position of authority in that way. I'm speaking up now, in part by having joined a friend-of-the-court brief with other community members that told the Supreme Court ahead of its decision that the Bremerton School District did the right thing to protect students' religious freedom.

Like many parents who send their children to public schools, I trusted Bremerton to provide my four kids with a quality, secular education that was inclusive and welcoming to all students, regardless of their religious beliefs. I'm proud that Bremerton has tried to do that. It is a shame that the court did not respect and maintain established protections for the next generation of students, which may soon include my grandchildren, so they can play freely and cheer on the Bremerton Knights without feeling like they have to pray to participate.


#183 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 07:47 AM | Reply

-I wish I'd known sooner that Kennedy was praying with students during those postgame pep talks

This from the mouth of someone who knows him personally and worked with him for 15 years?

really?

#184 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 08:01 AM | Reply

"He knelt at midfield for a few seconds after games."

From that friend-of-the-court brief:

He shares the story of his senior year homecoming game that Petitioner turned into a media circus: "I felt attention was shifted from our football team and focused towards Kennedy's prayer circle. To this day, I don't remember who we played or if we even won[,] . . . all I remember is the aftermath of that game." F.P. recalls the sound of the horn ending the game and, before the two teams had the opportunity to shake hands, over 500 people "storm[ing] the football field . . . from both sides, hopping the fences and rushing to the field to be close to Kennedy before he started his prayer. . . . [He] felt so uncomfortable and unsafe." Petitioner's group prayers did not only deprive F.P. of his free exercise rights, but of his love for football, lasting friendships with his teammates, and the respect he otherwise earned from his coaches.

#185 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 08:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So much for these "originalist" adhering to the Constitution's separation of church and state.

#186 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2022-06-28 08:06 AM | Reply

"-I wish I'd known sooner that Kennedy was praying with students during those postgame pep talks
This from the mouth of someone who knows him personally and worked with him for 15 years?
really?"

Yes, he saw the group huddles after the game but didn't know the coach was praying during them:

I witnessed the team gatherings Kennedy led many times and assumed they were traditional postgame pep talks; the coach would stride to the school logo at center field and hold up a pair of helmets while the players would encircle him and take a knee. From the stands, I couldn't hear what he was saying, but I assumed he was celebrating a game well played or motivating the players to come back stronger for the next game.

It wasn't until 2015 that I, along with most of the community (and the rest of the country, once he started holding news conferences), learned that Kennedy often included Christian prayers in those postgame team meetings. I've known Kennedy for a long time; we worked together in the local shipyard for nearly 15 years, and he coached my son for a season. We were friendly, and I respected his work with kids in the football program.

But he crossed a line when he started praying with students--with other people's children.


I'm guessing that when this parent worked with him in the shipyard, the coach didn't gather his co-workers together for prayer circles.

#187 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 08:06 AM | Reply

So he kneels in the middle of the field so all eyes are on him, and no one thinks he's doing this to call attention to himself being a "good Christian?" No one thinks he's not coercing his team members? If Jesus actually existed I think he's have a few things to say about performative christianity.

#178 | Posted by RJSquirrel

Christ spoke against public proselytizing:

Matthew 6:

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.

#188 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2022-06-28 08:10 AM | Reply

187

Come on. It wasn't a secret what they were doing. Students, their parents, social media, etc.....you'd have to be deliberately ignorant or just outright lying at that point to say you didn't know what was going on.

It doesn't matter anyway. I accept the position of those who think this is bad practice and the court should stop it.

#189 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 08:12 AM | Reply

"God's allegiance in the SEC is now unclear."

I did wonder what the coach was praying for/about. According the former NFL player Eberly linked to above, on his team:

"The defensive captain lectured God on how hard we had worked in practice, implying that our efforts warranted divine help as a reward."

www.msn.com

#190 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 08:14 AM | Reply

"Come on. It wasn't a secret what they were doing. Students, their parents, social media, etc.....you'd have to be deliberately ignorant or just outright lying at that point to say you didn't know what was going on."

I don't know, Eberly, he says he learned about it when most of the community did:

"It wasn't until 2015 that I, along with most of the community (and the rest of the country, once he started holding news conferences), learned that Kennedy often included Christian prayers in those postgame team meetings."

#191 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 08:18 AM | Reply

God's track record in producing big wins is mixed, at best. Just ask Kurt Warner.

#192 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 08:33 AM | Reply

once he started holding news conferences
I was on the fence at the start. I'm willing to live and let live. I thought that since it was after the game everyone is dismissed and allowed to do what they want; so what if the guy prays with his team. But the more you read the less this looks like a sincere act of faith and the more it looks like a manufactured test case centered around an ego maniac that wanted to divide a community, funded by a white shoe law firm with a big PR team and an agenda.

500 people rushing the field to pray at a high school football game? Followed by a presser. And the court describes this is a "personal prayer"?
Something is indeed very rotten in the State of Denmark. We need more Marcellus, less Horatio.

#193 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-06-28 08:44 AM | Reply

Since both sides pray to god for victory gods record is 50-50

#194 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-28 08:46 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Personally I want to see some snake handlers celebrate at the 50 yard line with a good old black Baptist choir singing we shall overcome while a rabbi recites the Torah

#195 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-28 08:50 AM | Reply

It's gonna be a hoot when the Westboro Baptist church shows up with their signs at a pee wee football game

#196 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-06-28 08:59 AM | Reply

" If you want to criticize the court opinion you need to do it in context. There was no animal sacrifice made by the coach."

That wasn't the point of the question; it was If religious displays are allowed, what other denominations would you be comfortable with?

From your answer, it looks like it's Christianity, or nothing.

You know ... the problem.

#197 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-28 09:49 AM | Reply

I can't wait until the Satanic Temple builds a school in Huntsville, Alabama and then puts Baphomet statues at both ends of the football field with their arms wide open to serve as goal posts .... and also uses public money to pay for it.

#198 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 10:15 AM | Reply

-It's gonna be a hoot when the Westboro Baptist church shows up with their signs at a pee wee football game

The court stood with those folks and their rights.

If anything, you're making an argument the court is being consistent.

...Even though you think you're making the opposite argument.

#199 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 10:22 AM | Reply

"learned that Kennedy often included Christian prayers in those postgame team meetings."

I think the cat was out of the bag when both teams were out there with their heads bowed.

But I agree this turned into a media circus and this coach seemed to embrace it...which takes it way beyond personal prayer.

So the opposition has very valid points.

#200 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 10:29 AM | Reply

I absolutely detested this crap in school. I went to public schools and my first pep rally, the speaker said something I didn't understand at the time. He said "Now let's recite the Lord's prayer." Then everyone started saying it - and I looked around like "WTF!? Am I surrounded by POD people? Is this a cult?" it was uncomfortable AF. It was the last pep rally I went to.

Thankfully college didn't do any of that nonsense.

#201 | Posted by YAV at 2022-06-28 10:39 AM | Reply

By the way - the pep rallies were mandatory.
I'd shuttle with the crowd then pop into a bathroom on the way to the bleachers and then exited and went home while they all did whatever the f**k that was.

#202 | Posted by YAV at 2022-06-28 10:42 AM | Reply

I still have a copy of the New Testament that was issued to me at my public school, by the Gideons, in 1983. I was 11 years old at the time. I was never given a free copy of the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita or the Talmud or even friggin' Dianetics at school (nor was I ever encouraged to read those other works). Unsurprisingly, we did have a "Bible as Literature" club, though. I was not a member of that club.

All this religious expression in schools stuff is intended to promote Christianity, and little to nothing else. If you want to pray at a football game then pray. No one else even has to know about it. God can read your small mind. He doesn't need to watch your lips move.

#203 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 10:50 AM | Reply

If you want to pray at a football game then pray. No one else even has to know about it. God can read your small mind. He doesn't need to watch your lips move.

#203 | POSTED BY ANTON AT 2022-06-28 10:50 AM | FLAG:

You're really invested in how somebody prays. Seems a bit silly.

#204 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 10:56 AM | Reply

You're really invested in how somebody prays. Seems a bit silly.

#204 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2022-06-28 10:56 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

No, I'm not. But it should be obvious that Almighty God doesn't need to "hear" from goobers. He can just read their minds. But, that is not enough for hypocrites and showoffs like this coach.

#205 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 11:04 AM | Reply

"WTF!? Am I surrounded by POD people? Is this a cult?"

Sounds like you figured out that the answer was yes.

Welcome to the new divided states of America.

Be glad you are not a fertile woman right now.

But no worries. Everyone will get their turn in the barrel. (Or in the gun sights)

First they came for the pregnant women ...
Next it will be contraception ...
Then they will go after the gays and trans ...
etc. etc. etc.

They will be coming for all of us soon enough.

#206 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-06-28 11:11 AM | Reply

This nation is going to the Talibaptists...

and as soon as that happens, there will be
a 'great brain drain' from America, and it
will be alright then to legally declare it dead...

#207 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-06-28 11:15 AM | Reply

ripping the child out of a mother's womb after they've began sucking their thumb

it's not a child. It's a fetus. In most cases, fetuses start thumb sucking as early as the 10th week. At this age, their brains have not yet developed. This means the brain is in no way involved in initiating or controlling the thumbsucking. At least be honest about biology.

I don't find prayer detestable. I find the influence upon the kids to practice the coach's religion detestable. This wasn't a private prayer. This wasn't just him alone. Check Gal's link in 181.

From Gal's link in 181 - "Teenagers see coaches as authority figures who determine playing time and influence how well they interact with the rest of their teammates, their friends. When Kennedy met with the entire team on the field immediately following games, with the community watching, it would have been incredibly hard for a teenager, any teenager, to refuse to participate, even if Kennedy's prayers conflicted with the student's personal religious beliefs."

How would everyone feel if it was a Muslim coach spreading out a prayer rug? Orthodox Jewish scripture reading? A Bhuddist mantra? And all the kids going along because it's led by the coach who determines their positions, their playing time? Peer pressure from their friends and teammates?

#208 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 11:16 AM | Reply

At this age, their brains have not yet developed.

What's your excuse?

I'd be careful if I were you about using a fully functioning brain as a prerequisite to valid human life. That won't end well for people like you.

#209 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-06-28 11:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

If he is caught penalizing players because they refuse to pray he should be fired immediately.

Maybe better yet, seek another school.

#210 | Posted by fresno500 at 2022-06-28 11:25 AM | Reply

You clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about. Stay in your lane, son.

#47 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I'll gladly admit that my cortex is developed enough that I don't need to thank sky daddy for every mundane thing that, if he existed, he likely would give two craps about anyway.

#211 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-28 11:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#209 you included, sport.

#212 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-28 11:29 AM | Reply

"They're also full of ----"
#11 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

This is why you never succeeded at your dream job.

#213 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-06-28 11:34 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

That won't end well for people like you.
#209 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT

Or especially for you my pretty.

Karma is a bitty my little kitty.

You think your heart is as light as a feather?

From what I can see you best think again.

#214 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-06-28 11:39 AM | Reply

#209

Thank you for a reasoned, educated, and researched response. Your posts are just so enlightening.

#215 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 12:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

When I was in high school, the coaches were also our teachers. Was this coach a teacher for some of the football players? If so, that adds another layer of pressure on the kids to comply and at least pretend to pray along.

#216 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-06-28 12:35 PM | Reply

Coaches at my high school generally taught stuff like Driver's Ed. and P.E. There were exceptions to that general rule, but none of them taught physics or AP Literature, if you get my drift.

#217 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 12:44 PM | Reply

""Today's decision," she wrote, "is particularly misguided because it elevates the religious rights of a school official, who voluntarily accepted public employment and the limits that public employment entails, over those of his students, who are required to attend school and who this court has long recognized are particularly vulnerable and deserving of protection."

If you are intellectually incapablr of understanding her logic just be aware you are f*****g stupid.

#218 | Posted by danni at 2022-06-28 12:45 PM | Reply

Gal,

"I'm waiting for a Muslim coach to get down and kneel on his pray rug after a game."

If he wants to stick his rear in the air I don't care. If other kids want to and parents don't pull their kids out of sports, I don't care.

Just don't want to hear their call to prayer and no special accommodations.

Now that the Lemon Test has been nullified for all practical purposes, may the best God win.

#219 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 12:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

" ... . may the best God win."

#219 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-06-28 12:49 PM | FLAG:

The "best God" doesn't need a football coach's help to promote His greatness among His creatures. A God who requires human assistance isn't very impressive and is not even worth human acknowledgement, much less worship.

#220 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 12:53 PM | Reply

No, I'm not. But it should be obvious that Almighty God doesn't need to "hear" from goobers. He can just read their minds. But, that is not enough for hypocrites and showoffs like this coach.

#205 | POSTED BY ANTON AT 2022-06-28 11:04 AM | FLAG:

Some serious cognitive dissonance here.

I for one don't care if they break out a prayer rug and spit out some lines towards Mecca. Inshallah blah blah blah.

#221 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 12:56 PM | Reply

Now if somebody starts dancing with snakes.. that is when I nope the ---- out.

#222 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 12:57 PM | Reply

Ant,

God doesn't need our help.

We need His.

#223 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 12:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Now that the Lemon Test has been nullified for all practical purposes, may the best God win.
#219 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

It's the same ------' god, you bigot.

#224 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 01:03 PM | Reply

It is a little absurd that he can do this on publicly-funded property (if it is but I haven't heard anything about it being a private school. And the absurdity isn't that he can do it, the absurdity is that the SCOTUS ruled on it. If they are really about separation of church and state, they should ALWAYS side with that separation.

#225 | Posted by humtake at 2022-06-28 01:06 PM | Reply

We need His.
#223 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You don't speak for us.

STFU.

#226 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 01:06 PM | Reply

Coaches at my high school generally taught stuff like Driver's Ed. and P.E. There were exceptions to that general rule, but none of them taught physics or AP Literature, if you get my drift.

#217 | POSTED BY ANTON

Our head basketball coach taught math including pre-calc. Real smart guy, real great coach. The girls swimming coach taught chemistry. But to your point, they were definitely the exceptions. The rest were as you mentioned, driver ed, PE, health, civics, and so on.

#227 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 01:06 PM | Reply

If they are really about separation of church and state, they should ALWAYS side with that separation.
#225 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

Clearly, they are not. That's the point.

#228 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 01:07 PM | Reply

Just don't want to hear their call to prayer and no special accommodations.
Now that the Lemon Test has been nullified for all practical purposes, may the best God win.

#219 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Translation: First amendment is for Chreestians only.

#229 | Posted by jpw at 2022-06-28 01:07 PM | Reply

#227 | POSTED BY EL_BUSCADOR

Our championship winning basketball and volleyball coach was the janitor.

#230 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 01:07 PM | Reply

#221 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Would you care if playing time was dependent upon prayer time?

#231 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 01:09 PM | Reply

Now that the Lemon Test has been nullified for all practical purposes

Do you think that's a good thing for America and the Constitution?

#232 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 01:12 PM | Reply

"God doesn't need our help."

Except to exist.

#233 | Posted by danni at 2022-06-28 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If they are really about separation of church and state, they should ALWAYS side with that separation.

The corrupt court is there to install a christofascist theocracy.

End of story.

#234 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-06-28 01:23 PM | Reply

"If they are really about separation of church and state, they should ALWAYS side with that separation."

The majority on the court demonstrated quite clearly that they aren't.

#235 | Posted by danni at 2022-06-28 01:24 PM | Reply

Was that established in court or did you pull that out of your rectum?

#236 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-06-28 01:35 PM | Reply

#221 The cognitive dissonance is on the side of those who claim to be followers of Jesus and then pray in public like the hypocrites do, which is in opposition to the teachings of the Gospel.

See Matthew 5:5-6

Don't blame me. Blame God's kid.

#237 | Posted by anton at 2022-06-28 01:47 PM | Reply

#231 I am willing to humor the religious until the snakes or pamphlets come out.

#238 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 02:03 PM | Reply

I am willing to humor the religious until the snakes or pamphlets come out.

#238 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

At which time it will be too late.

I was willing to humor the anti-abortionists, too, until the "snakes" in the Supreme Court came out.

When will we learn how fragile our democracy really is?

#239 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-06-28 02:17 PM | Reply

#238 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

So you're perfectly okay for a coach demanding players to pray to HIS God while threatening losing playing time if the players don't.

Wow. Snakes and pamphlets seem far less nefarious than coercion, no?

#240 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 02:21 PM | Reply

Praying publicly on public property is one thing.
Using your publicly funded position of authority to coerce worship of a god, with threat of penalties for non participation, is way over the line.

When a Muslim leads a class in prayer with penalties for non participation, the christo-facists are going to lose their minds.

#241 | Posted by bored at 2022-06-28 02:45 PM | Reply

So you're perfectly okay for a coach demanding players to pray to HIS God while threatening losing playing time if the players don't.

#240 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2022-06-28 02:21 PM | FLAG:

This is football. They all have long term brain damage already. If a kid doesn't give lip service to jesus he gets... less brain damage.

Sounds great.

#242 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

El,

"Do you think that's a good thing for America and the Constitution?"

I think it's the correct solution for a society of mixed beliefs.

Why should atheists be pampered?

#243 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 02:51 PM | Reply

Bill, atheists are hardly pampered. Reference to the christian god and religion are everywhere in our society. We have to put up with constant displays of christianity. Every time I handle currency, for example. I don't have a problem with your beliefs, believe and practice what you want, just keep it away from me. I don't want to have to be subservient to them, participate in them, be witness to them, have my tax dollars pay for them, or have my kids or grandkids pressured to do any of the above. What do you have to put up with from atheists? The worship of nothing?

#244 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sounds great.
#242 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

The specific case focused on football. The ruling applies to all sports.

Swallow it.

#245 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 03:33 PM | Reply

El?

"have my tax dollars pay for them"

Tough s??? on that.

We all pay taxes that go to things we don't like or support.

#246 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 03:41 PM | Reply

El,

"What do you have to put up with from atheists? The worship of nothing?"

Ok fine.

Then say nothing about religion and stop attacking others if you consider yourself neutral.

#247 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 03:43 PM | Reply

-We have to put up with constant displays of christianity

I have to put up with fat people and rednecks. They're everywhere.

I have to subsidize fat people in several ways,

Don't get me wrong...I don't think atheists are being pampered and I agree with the bulk of your points but putting up with displays of christianity is part of living in a tolerant world.

Which is what is think is really behind much of the outrage here. I know some truly care about the student they believe will be marginalized over not participating in the prayer and I get that.

But I think a lot of it really just about the public display of a prayer. People believe they have a right to not see that at a function they have no obligation to attend.

Geez....people who talk like that are exactly the same as some old ------- who's crying about seeing a mother breastfeed in a grocery store.

#248 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 03:46 PM | Reply

El,

Nothing means nothing.

Nothing does not mean opposing other religions and then complaining you feel on the defensive.

Just say nothing.

You're not going to live in a religious vacuum. Just accept it.

The problem is you believe there is "no god". That is taking a side and if you tell other people you are no longer truly neutral.

#249 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-28 03:51 PM | Reply

Of course I don't expect to live in a god-free vacuum. As I've said on other threads, I'm not anti-religion. If it gives you peace and comfort, direction and guidance, sense of community and belonging, or whatever you get from it, I'm glad you're able to practice it freely. I might not even be atheist by a pure definition. I'm spiritual, I meditate, I commune with nature. I'm not attacking your religion. I don't shy away from someone wearing a cross. I don't get upset because someone prays before a meal, if I'm at the same table I sit quietly until they're done. But overtly public attention grabbing displays like this are, in my opinion, over the line. And it's not even just the public demonstration of piety in this case because it's after the game and someone who doesn't want to see it can just leave. But what if one of those kids and his parents are non-christian? Don't you realize there's a great deal of peer pressure and team expectation for that young man to participate, or at least be present? I think where there's a disconnect is people who are religious see nothing wrong with any outward displays of their religion. "Blinded by the light" so to speak. Of course it doesn't bother you that this on the clock public employee is using public property following a public event to make a public religious display. It's what you believe in. Now try to imagine it being an Islamic prayer, and all those high school kids participating, or at least kneeling with the rest of the team while they participate. Would you be OK with that happening?

#250 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 04:24 PM | Reply

#245 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2022-06-28 03:33 PM | FLAG:

The real answer is... "What's their record?" Average? Fire him. Multiple time state championship program? Better thump that bible.

#251 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 04:27 PM | Reply

"The problem is you believe there is "no god". That is taking a side and if you tell other people you are no longer truly neutral."

Then Christians are prejudiced against Hinduism, Buddism, etc.

Interestingly, it also means you're not neutral but favorable to both the Jews and the Muslims. Since Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the G-d of Abraham.

Go figure!

#252 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-28 04:28 PM | Reply

251

Oh yeah.....high school coaches who win get away with some ----....until they stop winning.....then by god we aren't going to put up with these shenanigans.

#253 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 04:30 PM | Reply

#248

Ebs, agreed on fatties and rednecks. Can I add smokers and spitters to the list?

And I do agree with the rest of your post as well. As I said above, the prayer itself isn't my issue, it's the peer and team pressure for the kids to participate. I agree there should be room for religious tolerance.

#254 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 04:35 PM | Reply

"As I said above, the prayer itself isn't my issue, it's the peer and team pressure for the kids to participate."

Right.
Like being required to stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance, even if you don't have to say the words. Compelling any sort of action is absolutely a violation of individual freedom.

#255 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-28 04:39 PM | Reply

-Can I add smokers and spitters to the list?

absolutely, and can we include people who wear their pants below their ass?

#256 | Posted by eberly at 2022-06-28 04:39 PM | Reply

#256

Well those should just be immediately and publicly flogged. Along with people who let their dogs crap in public or on other people's lawns and don't clean it up.

#257 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-06-28 04:56 PM | Reply

People who put their phone on speaker and hold it out in front of their face. (Without a mask, during COVID.)

#258 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-06-28 04:58 PM | Reply

#129 | Posted by BillJohnson

Hey Bill, eff off. I defined team player and still do. BUT I was also not a sheep and still am not. I just don't guzzle the Kool-Aid. I never claimed to be a star. I was second string and went down to zero playing time. I did everything asked of me (except pray) and was probably the least selfish player on the team, that's always been me. When it comes to playing a sport even today I care more about the team more than me personally. Today I work 10-12 hours shifts so my reports have a life with their families. I am about doing what is right and have always been.

This was basketball. We carried 3 strings. I was a center and arguably out played the starting center - his parent were on the school board and pretty influential in the school beyond that. Let's just say multiple team mates thought I should start because I tore the guy up in practices and the coach was always yelling at him for it. I lead the team in shot percentage and free throw percentage. I still don't think I was good in fact the team wasn't good and I think that was because there were too many stars. See we had a lot of politics going on and I wasn't ignorant to them even then. The coach was more than a bit religious. I was raised Catholic and he was Baptist. I just decided I wasn't going to join in a prayer. I was never religious and this was the year I quit pretending about mid-season because of events I don't care to get into. "Let's all join in prayer" - What utter nonsense is what I had always thought. What the prayers were for usually included something selfish anyhow. The Coach just asked me why I didn't join in the prayer and I said I didn't believe in team prayer and my religion was personal to me. No coercion. No discussion. Literally the end of my playing time that game though. I wasn't rude, I wasn't out of place, I wasn't snarky - that wasn't me. If anything I was sheepish because it wasn't easy, I just had enough. I had already quit going to Church. It was a defining moment I still remember in that crappy old locker room we had.

Some more background. There were at least 5 teammates of mine had started going to a Christian youth center the summer before, including a couple of my good friends, through his grooming. Of course it was a Baptist thing even though it was "non-denominational" the Baptist Church put it on and of note none of my teammates attending were Baptist. They had tried to get me to start going with them that summer and I just said no thanks or made an excuse.

You know it was one of the the best decisions of my life. Very freeing. Today, I still think organized religion is nonsense. My mother remains very disappointed as she is a devout Catholic. It is all about man having power over others and not God by any stretch. My sister has finally figured that out in the last few years as well. I believe there is a higher power because of personal experience as I have said here before - I just don't believe in religion.

#259 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2022-06-28 05:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Organized religion is an oxymoron. And Jesus put religious hypocrites on the bottom of his invitation list.

#260 | Posted by Corky at 2022-06-28 05:07 PM | Reply

Jesus loves prosperity gospel mega churches. It's why they are so blessed with success and massive flocks to shepherd.

#261 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 05:43 PM | Reply

I've noticed there isn't a single Christian who has gone on record saying if the coach were Muslim, and brought his prayer rug and faced East ...

... they'd not only be fine with that, they'd be supportive.

#262 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-06-28 06:29 PM | Reply

Does he win? Parents will overlook a lot..

#263 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-06-28 07:58 PM | Reply

Multiple time state championship program? Better thump that bible.
#251 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Nah, the Christian fundamentalist hired on as JV volleyball coach has entered the chat.

#264 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-06-28 08:06 PM | Reply

Galax,

"The coach was more than a bit religious. I was raised Catholic and he was Baptist."

That might have been more an issue than you realized.

Depending on his Baptist background, some Baptists are bothered by Catholic's worshipping Mary and say they don't worship Jesus.

I am sorry about your personal experience.

You know...times are changing. I don't know the answer but I suspect Americans in the future are going to be required to work with a variety of faiths and life styles they personally find offensive.

You choose to walk away....that's your decision.

#265 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-06-29 06:10 AM | Reply

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