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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 12, 2022

Florida's Medicare system is eliminating coverage of gender-affirming care for trans youth and adults. The new regulations announced yesterday will block medical providers from seeking reimbursement from the state for "puberty blockers, hormones and hormone antagonists, sex reassignment surgeries, and any other procedures that alter primary or secondary sexual characteristics."

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Is gender affirming medically necessary?

#1 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-12 05:52 PM | Reply

From what I've read there's not an overwhelming argument other than subjective opinions.

#2 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-12 06:09 PM | Reply

Why don't they just shoot them?

#3 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-08-12 07:45 PM | Reply

@#2 ... From what I've read ...

Where do you read?

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-08-12 08:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lamp,

I realise the importance of this to the person, but the question in my mind is how is this necessary and not elective.

That is the question for me.

Who should make that call and where does it end?

What other medical procedures should be considered necessary and paid for by the government?

#5 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-13 06:54 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

What other medical procedures should be considered necessary and paid for by the government?

#5 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Studies have repeatedly shown that gender affirming healthcare treatment results in drastic reduction of depression and suicide rates asking transgender patients. With regard to suicide, these studies have shown a reduction of somewhere between 40-70% in suicide attempts.

Now Bill, I'll ask you a question.
Is chronic pain management necessary?
A person can live with pain. It doesn't kill you. We could save a ton, and I mean a TON of money by denying treatment. We spend more on pain management than we do on the two leading causes of death, cancer and heart disease. We will no doubt see much higher rates of depression and suicide in the people denied care but is that something the government should be paying for?

#6 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-13 08:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

John,

"Studies have repeatedly shown that gender affirming healthcare treatment results in drastic reduction of depression and suicide"

Frankly the suicide rate for gays is higher than the national average. Your comment is likely true.

My question is where does it end and what other medical procedures could qualify if that is the criteria?

Does that make it a medical necessity?

#7 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-13 08:27 AM | Reply

I answered your question. Please answer mine. Is pain management medically necessary? If so, why? How do you define "medical necessity"?

#8 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-13 08:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Medically necessary
Health care services or supplies needed to diagnose or treat an illness, injury, condition, disease or its symptoms and that meet accepted standards of medicine.

Does gender affirming care meet this definition?

#9 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-08-13 09:59 AM | Reply

What other medical procedures should be considered necessary and paid for by the government?
#5 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Abortion.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-13 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Dammit beat me to it Snoof.

#11 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-08-13 02:31 PM | Reply

Isn't medicare for old people?

Why would medicare funds be used on people who weren't old? For any reason?

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-13 03:10 PM | Reply

"Studies have repeatedly shown that gender affirming healthcare treatment results in drastic reduction of depression and suicide rates asking transgender patients."

So should any cosmetic surgery that was reaffirming be covered by the state?

Some girls are self-conscious due to breast size...either too big or too small.

Same thing with butts.

Should skinny dudes have access to bicep implants? Should fat people be entitled to government-funded liposuction?

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-13 03:12 PM | Reply

"Is pain management medically necessary?"

I think a better question is should "pain management" be the responsibility of the government.

Alcohol is a better "pain management" tool than any I've ever been offered. That said, if the government is going to restrict access to pain management, then it follows they should be the ones who provide powerful pain management medications.

To my knowledge, if I wanted a sex change I don't need the government to approve it. I can do it on my own. I can't, however, go out and legally procure fentanyl.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-13 03:16 PM | Reply

I bet sociopaths like DeSantis have their advisers just create an entire drawerful of rules, regs, executive orders, etc that ---- all over their favorite target groups and can be pulled out and implemented whenever DeSantis feels he hasn't been in the limelight for a few days.

#15 | Posted by JOE at 2022-08-13 03:21 PM | Reply

Seriously, when i see ---- like this i just assume "oh, Fox must not have led a segment with DeSantis in 36 hours, so he went in the file and grabbed another one."

#16 | Posted by JOE at 2022-08-13 03:22 PM | Reply

"Isn't medicare for old people?"

Yes, but this is Medicaid. It's for the poor and orphaned.

In this case, the most likely scenario would be a poor family whose household income falls below levels which qualify them for state Medicaid. Another might be a kid in an orphanage, needing mental health services.

Small percentages of people, but what does it matter to DeSantis when he's (lack-of-)virtue signaling?

#17 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-13 03:30 PM | Reply

Isn't medicare for old people?

#12 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Medicare, medicaid, CHIP and health insurance portability standards are all administered by the same agency known as Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
The Medicare program, while primarily is for people 65 or older but their are exceptions for younger people such as children with certain health conditions or done situations where people receiving disability receive Medicare.

#18 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-13 04:38 PM | Reply

I think a better question is should "pain management" be the responsibility of the government.
#14 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

That is exactly the question. This post is about what government provided healthcare should cover. Instead of addressing your other inane questions, I'll just say as someone who works in healthcare, I support covering proven treatments and methods that have been shown to increase positive outcomes for our patients. Providing a safe and affirming environment for our patient has been shown to improve those outcomes.

#19 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-13 05:07 PM | Reply

I think a better question is should "pain management" be the responsibility of the government.
#14 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Is pain management part of your government provided health care?

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-13 05:48 PM | Reply

#12 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Medicaid. MEDICAID.

"Low-income families, qualified pregnant women and children, and individuals receiving Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are examples of mandatory eligibility groups (PDF, 177.87 KB). States have additional options for coverage and may choose to cover other groups, such as individuals receiving home and community-based services and children in foster care who are not otherwise eligible. "

#21 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-08-13 07:19 PM | Reply

Really...what DON'T liberals think the government should pay for?

#22 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-13 09:45 PM | Reply

Really...what DON'T liberals think the government should pay for?
#22 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Elective cosmetic surgery. You know, ---- jobs. Unless it's because of cancer or some other reason that just because you want bigger -----.

I don't think you understand my priorities here.
If the free market could do it cheaper and better, I'd support that.
But the government can do it cheaper, and better for the nation as a whole.
You probably don't believe that, but it's true.

I'm really only a socialist when it comes to things that everyone needs. Health care, education, water and the other utilities. To a certain extent housing.

And I'm fine with Capitalist programs that want to compete with Socialized Medicine. If you want to pay more for fancier care, that should be allowed. For example, the government should give you glasses, but if you want contacts, that's on you. That kind of thing.

Make sense?

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-13 09:54 PM | Reply

#23 What about food, transportation and clothing? Those are clearly all things everyone needs.

How about internet access?

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-08-13 10:01 PM | Reply

So, basically you are Engels but are willing to throw a capitalist bone to the entertainment industry.

#25 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-08-13 10:03 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"I don't think you understand my priorities here."

As if I care.

#26 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-13 10:25 PM | Reply

" Really...what DON'T liberals think the government should pay for?"

Are you kidding? Remind us again what the liberals
had the government pay for when YOUR family was on the dole.

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-13 10:31 PM | Reply

#23 What about food, transportation and clothing? Those are clearly all things everyone needs.
How about internet access?
#24 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

TANF and EBT is an example of the government providing food.
There are other programs that can help the poor with a lot of the basic needs in life. For the rest of us, there's Capitalism.
These "Communist" things already exist; me saying I think they should exist is not a suggestion that these things don't exist in some rudimentary form in the present day. Medicaid, for example, exists.

Obamaphones, for example. Those exist. You don't have one?

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-13 11:31 PM | Reply

Really...what DON'T liberals think the government should pay for?
#22 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Bill, why won't you define what you think you medically necessary means and answer if the government provided healthcare should pay for pain management?

#29 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-14 12:47 AM | Reply

"Yes, but this is Medicaid. It's for the poor and orphaned."

I know what medicaid is...the article referred to both medicaid and medicare.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 03:33 AM | Reply

"Elective cosmetic surgery. You know, ---- jobs. Unless it's because of cancer or some other reason that just because you want bigger -----."

You don't think a man transitioning to a woman shouldn't be provided bigger -----?

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 03:35 AM | Reply

"I'm really only a socialist when it comes to things that everyone needs. Health care, education, water and the other utilities. To a certain extent housing."

You're not a socialist at all. Everything you want would be paid for through taxation on capitalist enterprise.

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 03:36 AM | Reply

Snoofy,

"Elective cosmetic surgery. You know, ---- jobs."

How sexist of you.

Don't women deserve bigger breasts if it improves their self esteem?

#33 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 07:30 AM | Reply

As someone who was on Medicaid for a short time let me tell you I would not be back working without the care I received. I was slipping fast the concept of trying to work a full day was out of the question. Medicaid allowed me to see a neurologist who got me the drugs I needed to stabilize and symptom manage what couldn't be fixed. Then Medicaid paid for those drugs while they started working. After 3 months I was back working full time and no longer on Medicaid now I make enough I don't even qualify for ACA subsidies.

So without Medicaid paying for stuff that I'm sure Carlson could work you into a lather over I would be on disability, food stamps etc. Instead I'm working and paying taxes and supporting a family who as a result are also not getting aid from the government.

If a condition makes it impossible for someone to work, and for many trans people that is the case, then Medicaid paying for the care makes long term financial sense for the country. How are you going to pretend to be a fiscal conservative at the same time as making emotional decisions that cost more long term?

#34 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2022-08-14 09:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#29 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

BillJohnson is a slimy POS and has no answer for your question.

#35 | Posted by Angrydad at 2022-08-14 09:58 AM | Reply

"I know what medicaid is."

Your question begs to differ.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:33 AM | Reply

#34
I've followed your story for quite sometime.

Much respect.

#37 | Posted by bruceaz at 2022-08-14 10:42 AM | Reply

Angry,

"BillJohnson is a slimy POS and has no answer for your question."

I've never claimed to have answers.

Reread my posts....I've been asking questions.

I've noticed liberals only cater to select people.

#38 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:02 AM | Reply

Angry,

And I usually don't see any answers from liberals that aren't biased against the people who pay for most of everything.

I mean...you just watch seniors will now have to pay more for Part B.

#39 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:16 AM | Reply

Republicants want to eliminate Medicare and Social Security. I assume you're ok with that.

#40 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-08-14 11:17 AM | Reply

Reread my posts....I've been asking questions.

#38 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

But you won't answer so why should anyone bother replying to you?

#41 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-08-14 11:20 AM | Reply

Don't women deserve bigger breasts if it improves their self esteem?
#33 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Don't women deserve bigger breasts if it gives their husbands self esteem?
Answer: Yes. In the 1950s, the Air Force paid for a ---- job for Paul Tibbetts' wife. Because if you're going to be a flag officer, you deserve a wife with missile ----.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 11:32 AM | Reply

John,

"But you won't answer so why should anyone bother replying to you?"

If you makes you feel any better I'm not actually expecting anyone to answer.

But don't ask me questions calling me a "slimy POS" and then expect anything from me either.

My posts are mostly rhetorical but I truthfully don't know what American should do.

I think future people in America are going to pay the price for all these indulgences and hate all of us living today for stealing from them.

#43 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:33 AM | Reply

You're not a socialist at all. Everything you want would be paid for through taxation on capitalist enterprise.
#32 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

That's dumb.
There's more to things than paying for things.
There's organizational and operational paradigms.
Single payer is a socialist overlay on an erstwhile capitalist society.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 11:35 AM | Reply

"If you makes you feel any better I'm not actually expecting anyone to answer."

Does it make you feel better, that you are so impotent and meaningless you expect to be ignored?

BillJohnson encapsulates it well enough: To be a Conservative, you first must be a Victim.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 11:37 AM | Reply

"If a condition makes it impossible for someone to work, and for many trans people that is the case, then Medicaid paying for the care makes long term financial sense for the country."

So morbidly obese people who want to not be morbidly obese should have access to Medicaid funds to receive liposuction?

People with small ----- who want big ----- should have government-provided ---- jobs?

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 11:49 AM | Reply

"People with small ----- who want big ----- should have government-provided ---- jobs?"

I don't get it.
Whose small ----- prevent them from working?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 11:51 AM | Reply

"To be a Conservative, you first must be a Victim."

Really?

This whole thread is built around that fact that, if you're a dude and want -----, you're a victim if the government doesn't pay for it.

For anyone else it's unnecessary cosmetic sugary that the taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for.

#48 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 11:55 AM | Reply

Snoofy,

"There's more to things than paying for things."

You mean like the moral depravity that has become the standard?

What should be done about that?

That is the basis of all thought and actions today.

Instead of the pursuit of righteousness and higher ideals as a nation, the pursuit of self-indulgences and hedonism is becoming socially accepted and even expected.

You are right....there's more to what is wrong today than "paying for things".

#49 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:55 AM | Reply

"Instead of the pursuit of righteousness and higher ideals as a nation, the pursuit of self-indulgences and hedonism is becoming socially accepted and even expected."

OMFG!

If that keeps up, we'll end up with a President who breaks half the Ten Commandments on a regular basis!

#50 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 11:57 AM | Reply

I think future people in America are going to pay the price for all these indulgences and hate all of us living today for stealing from them.
#43 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Not just America. The whole world.
But I'm talking about global warming and environmental destruction.
Not sure if you're talking about that, or the injustice of letting people with facial tattoos openly participate in society.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 11:59 AM | Reply

"...like the moral depravity that has become the standard?"

Like what? A President lying about paying hush money to a porn star he cheated with?

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 11:59 AM | Reply

"You mean like the moral depravity that has become the standard?
What should be done about that?"

The only way that will ever change under the current capitalist paradigm is if it becomes unprofitable.
I'm not holding my breath.

But again, the moral depravity I'm talking about is global warming, microplastics everywhere, the decline of public education, all by-products of an economic system that prioritizes profits over people.

You're talking about boys wearing eye shadow.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 12:01 PM | Reply

"This whole thread is built around that fact that, if you're a dude and want -----, you're a victim if the government doesn't pay for it."

And what precipitated that?
Florida's Conservative governor thinks dudes who want ----- are what's bringing Florida down.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 12:03 PM | Reply

"Whose small ----- prevent them from working?"

I wouldn't think anybody. However, in #34 Tao was making the argument that for some, body-identity issues may make it "impossible for someone to work."

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 12:18 PM | Reply

"Florida's Conservative governor thinks dudes who want ----- are what's bringing Florida down."

I don't know that he cares?

I know I don't.

But I know that if I lived in FL, I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to pay for cosmetic surgery. And this isn't even remotely unreasonable.

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-08-14 12:21 PM | Reply

Dan,

Don't worry.

I'm just as much a part of our times as everyone else.

No self righteousness on my part.

And still talking about Trump? Hell...I voted for him and don't think sit around thinking about him like some people do.

#57 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 12:40 PM | Reply

" I'm just as much a part of our times as everyone else."

Then why are you surprised you got what you voted for?

You voted for a known serial liar with severe moral shortcomings. Why wouldn't you specifically blame the guy in your mirror for the results?

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 12:47 PM | Reply

Dan,

"Then why are you surprised you got what you voted for?"

Who hasn't?

#59 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 12:52 PM | Reply

Dan,

"Why wouldn't you specifically blame the guy in your mirror for the results?"

Do you?

#60 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 12:53 PM | Reply

"Do you?"

Why should I feel bad voting against the guy with the moral depravity?

He breaks half the Commandments on a regular basis, and you'd vote for him again, all the while wondering aloud where we as a country went wrong.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 01:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Who hasn't (gotten who they voted for)?

Don't blame me, I voted for the email lady.
~Jeff Tidrich

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 01:06 PM | Reply


Close italics

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 01:06 PM | Reply

And still talking about Trump? Hell...I voted for him and don't think sit around thinking about him like some people do.
#57 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Yeah, that's a pretty good synopsis of what's wrong with you.

You don't own up to your failures in life. So you make no effort to be better.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:27 PM | Reply

I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to pay for anything
#56 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Edited for accuracy

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:32 PM | Reply

However, in #34 Tao was making the argument that for some, body-identity issues may make it "impossible for someone to work."
#55 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

If true, then clearly it's a net positive expenditure that will more than pay for itself in future tax revenue.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:34 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"So you make no effort to be better."

All my life has been about is bettering myself and any businesses I worked for.

I taught college accounting and computer classes part time after work for years.

I have strived to make myself a better person all my life.

And that's what I've done.

#67 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 01:37 PM | Reply

Your version of bettering yourself is rooted in deep denial about who you are.|

For example, you say you're gay, but you've only ever had sex with one woman for the past thirty years.

How exactly are you gay?

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:46 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

I have many flaws one of which is it's hard to ever shake a childhood of condemnation and ridicule from parents and people you love. Then the military shamed me when I was booted. My parents were never loving. They moved every 2 years and I had no siblings.

As an adult people have been cruel at times for being less than masculine and emotionally wired differently.

I met a girl who loved me dearly and I learned to love her.

My children are succeeding and have avoided drugs and alcohol.

At this point in my life I understand the point and the value of conservatives and the threat of what liberalism has become in America.

#69 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 01:49 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

I've only had sex with one woman ever.

#70 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 01:50 PM | Reply

Also, BillJohnson, taking away women's right to abortion, which is why you voted for Trump, isn't in any way making YOU a better person.

Unless you think being a busybody is what makes a person a good person.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:51 PM | Reply

"I've only had sex with one woman ever."

And men?

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:52 PM | Reply

"I have many flaws one of which is it's hard to ever shake a childhood of condemnation and ridicule from parents and people you love. Then the military shamed me when I was booted. My parents were never loving."

You haven't shaken it. You have embraced their morality of rejecting people simply for being gay. And then applied it to your own life.

No offense. Just telling you how it is.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:53 PM | Reply

I agree it's hard. I disagree that you're actually working on it.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:55 PM | Reply

"At this point in my life I understand the point and the value of conservatives and the threat of what liberalism has become in America."

As an example, you think you getting kicked out of the army for being gay was the right call. And liberals ruined that.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 01:57 PM | Reply

#55

The extreme body dysmorphia of a trans person is in no way comparable to self esteem issues caused by small ---- so I can't see where it would ever be medically necessary, however if there is a case feel free to post it and I'll change my opinion.

Having 2 trans kids myself the issues, especially in extreme cases, can cause a near hellish existence. Both my sons have trans friends and I have seen some dark stuff. My middle son and his husband tried helping one trans kid out by letting him live with them. The self hatred and harm got so bad that they had to move out.

My kids both have their own private insurance and they are both paying for their own HRT partly because as a father I was able to help them over the hump., partially because they were not extreme cases. A kid who is disowned by their parents would not get that initial help and could spiral. I ask you as a father of trans kids to please stop with the false comparisons to try and bolster your case. Having seen the terrible lives of so many trans people who lose the support of their family we as a society need to do better in supporting them.

As far as treatment for morbid obesity yes Medicaid should pay for that. There is pretty much no way a 600lbs person can work and losing that much weight a doctors care is essential. A friend of mine was over 600lbs it took nearly 2 years of physical and occupational therapy, gastric band, and lipo to get him down to 175. He now works full time. Thank god he became a drug dealer in HS or he wouldn't have had the money to pay for the extensive work that was necessary. He had tried on his own since about 450 to lose it but kept adding it on. If you have a curious mind try reading about how the body fights you when you try and lose weight the heavier you are when you start the more mechanisms the body has to defeat you it's kinda interesting.

#76 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2022-08-14 01:59 PM | Reply

"At this point in my life I understand the point and the value of conservatives and the threat of what liberalism has become in America."

As another example, you think gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry their gay partner, and liberals ruined that, and with it, America.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 02:02 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"deep denial about who you are"

Really?

One thing I'm not is in denial.

I'm not some old guy who lives with gay tendencies and married to a woman.

I lived out for several years and knew many gay people and the gay culture of the 70's and have continued staying abreast of the current trends of the gay world. Funny how much the gay men today and back then behave so much alike.

One thing that is very different is the level of openness. Gays today have the gays back then to thank for it who endured a lot more. I have never ever been in a closet my whole life. I attended gay rallies and events back then. Ever since then every place I have worked before and after being married people figure it out or I just simply have talked about it with my friends.

Me...in denial?....not one bit.

My life just doesn't fit the narrative for your view of the world.

#78 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 02:06 PM | Reply

"I'm not some old guy who lives with gay tendencies and married to a woman."

Then why do you say you're gay?
You hit all the other checkboxes: Old, and married to a woman.
What am I missing?

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 02:12 PM | Reply

"Funny how much the gay men today and back then behave so much alike."

What's funny about that?

Do you ever find yourself saying "Funny how much the straight men today and back then behave so much alike?"

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-08-14 02:13 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"you think gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry their gay partner, and liberals ruined that, and with it, America."

I saw the necessity of legally recognized arrangements for gay couples to establish some stability and perhaps encourage more commitment in their relationships.

As a Christian I have my own beliefs. I once lived with the Pastor of a Metropolitan Community Church in a large city in the early days of MCC.

Personally, I don't believe in Gay Marriage from a Christian biblical perspective.

I would have preferred Civil Unions to be written to provide all rights and obligations as traditional marriage.

Just without the word "marriage" because of religious connotations and historical usage and meaning of the word.

And I am concerned about preserving the sacred significance of "marriage".

But...it is not correct I don't want to see gay couples successfully form better relationships than what I was seeing back then.

From what I read...that too hasn't change a great deal today from back then.

#81 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 02:19 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

man...so literal.

"funny" doesn't mean..haha..funny.

Read the meaning of the word.

Sheesh...you have to be careful writing with some people.

#82 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 02:21 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

Well...the way I saw gays carry on back then cutting up with each other and being campy hasn't change a great deal.

Actually...it was intended to be funny...amusing...silly....perhaps even laughing at themselves (in a good way).

#83 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 02:27 PM | Reply

I would have preferred Civil Unions to be written to provide all rights and obligations as traditional marriage.
Just without the word "marriage" because of religious connotations and historical usage and meaning of the word.

Pretty sure that would violate the 14th kind of a separate but equal thing. If you wanted to do that you would have to institute civil unions for everyone and get the government out of the marriage business. Frankly I've supported that for a long time. The government should only be in the contracts business not the religious business. So issue a civil union across the board and then if people want to feel married they can find a church that will do the deed.

#84 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2022-08-14 02:37 PM | Reply

Tao,

Civil Unions wouldn't be for the exclusive use of gay couples.

I could well imagine some straight couples might like distancing themselves from the religious undertones of traditional marriage.

Separate but Equal failed because it was never equal.

Legally marriage and civil unions as i described it would be identical in usage since "marriage" in the legal sense is secular anyway.

Any religious connections to marriage is secondary because, as you say, there is an overlap and perhaps the government should have not gotten in the marriage business and can't force churches to perform a particular marriage. A religious marriage ceremony does not make you legally married.

#85 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 04:48 PM | Reply

Separate but Equal failed because it was never equal.

LMAO

#86 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-08-14 04:49 PM | Reply

Your religion isn't more important or special than any other, BILL.

Swallow it.

#87 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-08-14 04:57 PM | Reply

It's all civil unions. You don't get divorced because you danced around the hut three times.
You sue for divorce, ever seen the paperwork?

Bill, quit calling yourself a Christian, you defame them by that.

#88 | Posted by bruceaz at 2022-08-14 05:18 PM | Reply

Bruce,

"It's all civil unions"

That's all fine and dandy until we see a gay couple decide to have their marriage ceremony in a church that's open to the public but will not permit a gay couple to use the sanctuary and decide to sue for discrimination.

Fortunately the Supreme Court now would more likely not be inclined to ignore religious protections and is why I voted for Trump.

Now we need to get rid of mail-in ballots and stop the flow of illegals.

There's more work to be done and why I will vote Republican.

Hopefully the Republicans won't destroy the planet in the mean time or setup poor houses.

The sooner we get religious protections locked down, mail-in ballots banned, the borders tightened and women's rights restored, the sooner we can get back to other important issues.

#89 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 05:59 PM | Reply

Bruce,

Not including abortion that isn't a right.

#90 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 06:01 PM | Reply

" mail-in ballots banned"

The fact you have no proof aside ...

... should it be made harder or easier for the legal voter to cast their vote?

#91 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 06:29 PM | Reply

Wow, Mail in ballots, well of course.....

If you have a personal relationship with god you don't need a church to sanctifying anything.

I got married in a church. Civil union had the last word and I got nothing. I got over it but STFU.

And abortion ain't none of your business either.
That's between her and God too right?
Why did you even marry a gal , you misogynist piece of ----

#92 | Posted by bruceaz at 2022-08-14 06:40 PM | Reply

Dan,

"The fact you have no proof aside"

Just wait....

It's coming.

Maybe not this election but at some point mail-in ballots will function more closely to absentee ballots.

Treating ballots like raffle tickets like was done this election will stop.

#93 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 09:37 PM | Reply

Dan,

Raffle tickets may not be the best accurate description but as far as I'm concerned the treatment of ballots must be as solid as cash.

I wouldn't send cash through the mail.

Ballots in a country as important as the US must be regarded with the utmost security and procedures that protect our right to vote anonymously without any pressure from anyone else and be fair and as accurate as we can possibly make it.

Mail-in ballots were a joke and a direct catalyst for the Capitol break-in.

Without mail-in ballots the building would not have been broke in.

There would not have been any other reason to believe the election results were wrong.

#94 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 09:47 PM | Reply

There would not have been any other reason to believe the election results were wrong.

Well, unless Lewzer still lost.

#95 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-08-14 09:54 PM | Reply

Redial,

"Well, unless Lewzer still lost."

Unless??

You mean he might not have?

I just don't like the idea of mail-in ballots and didn't a month before the election and believed it could be a problem.

#96 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 10:01 PM | Reply

"Just wait....It's coming."

I've waited 25 years with Oregon. I've waited 150 years with the military. You have NO proof. You have a fantastical theory, which requires so many particular permutations, it's laughable.

It's NOT coming. 60 court cases, ZERO evidence.

If you want to admit the only reason you're pursuing this is you're afraid your wife will find out how you vote...

...just admit it.

You'd have a lot more honor than what you're doing now, which is bearing false witness.

#97 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:06 PM | Reply

"Treating ballots like raffle tickets like was done this election will stop."

Except if that were the case, and folks were wronged, they'd come forward, particularly after a close election. Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PERSON come forward supporting your theory? Shouldn't there be thousands? Shouldn't they be coming out of the woodwork???

WHY CAN'T YOU COME UP WITH ANY SUPPORT, EVEN ONE CASE, FOR YOUR THEORY???

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:09 PM | Reply

"Mail-in ballots were a joke and a direct catalyst for the Capitol break-in."

No, friend, LYING about mail-in ballots was a direct catalyst. The folks who lied to you are guilty. The folks who supported those liars are guilty.

And YOU are guilty, of lying about the efficacy of the election without so much as a scintilla of proof.

In this case, when you claim there's a problem with mail-in ballots, proof is honor. You have neither.

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:12 PM | Reply

Redial,

Absentee ballots have been used for decades.

What was done this election due to covid was quickly cooked up and implemented on a bigger scale than usual absentee ballots.

The same procedures could not be applied to these ballots because it lacked a formal chain of custody and was doomed to bottleneck.

#100 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 10:12 PM | Reply

"I just don't like the idea of mail-in ballots "

You just want to make it harder for "certain" legal voters to vote.

Tell us...where were the voting problems in the last election? Be specific.

#101 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:13 PM | Reply

"What was done this election due to covid was quickly cooked up and implemented on a bigger scale than usual absentee ballots."

Are you upset illegal voters voted, or are you upset legal voters voted?

#102 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:14 PM | Reply

You mean he might not have?

My point was the "catalyst" for the Capitol attack was the simple fact that Lewzer, lost.

Had he won, mail in ballots would have been claimed to have been as pure as gold.

And you know it.

Lewzer lost and the dumbest subset of his minions lost their collective ---- and attacked the Capitol. And failed.

#103 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-08-14 10:20 PM | Reply

Redial,

Not to mention the opportunity for ballot harvesting and pressuring family members.

Also...

Overworked, undertrained workers manually handling the ballots would not be needed with early voting and instead be replaced with people who only have to proctor voting stations.

Early voting is the answer to this problem that will only continue to blow up if we use mail-in ballots like was done this election.

#104 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 10:20 PM | Reply

"The same procedures could not be applied to these ballots because it lacked a formal chain of custody and was doomed to bottleneck."

That's a lie. They were all followed up on, and every wild accusation of fraud was investigated. There have been no court cases proving any malfeasance beyond the usual extra Trump vote in the name of a dead person "because the other side was probably doing it". Where would they have gotten that idea, Bill? Do you bear any responsibility???

Ultimately, you don't get to lie just because you don't like the result.

#105 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:22 PM | Reply

Redial,

Assuming Trump would have still lost, I would really be interested in knowing what would have caused hundreds of people to be so upset over the results and believe the election was bogus.

#106 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 10:23 PM | Reply

"Not to mention the opportunity for ballot harvesting and pressuring family members."

That didn't happen. If it had, folks would've come forward, especially after such a close election.

If YOU want to admit that's what happened in your household, go ahead. But stop pretending it happens all the time, but nobody EVER reports it.

#107 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:24 PM | Reply

Dan,

I'm sorry you have so little respect for this country.

#108 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 10:25 PM | Reply

I would really be interested in knowing what would have caused hundreds of people to be so upset over the results and believe the election was bogus.

Because he lost. It's that simple. He TOLD those morons that the only way he would lose was if the election was stolen. The morons BELIEVED that.

#109 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-08-14 10:31 PM | Reply

"I'm sorry you have so little respect for this country."

I'm not the guy lying about mail-in ballots to keep "certain" legal voters from voting.

Remind us where the problems were, in your mind. Urban areas, right?

#110 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:41 PM | Reply

"I would really be interested in knowing what would have caused hundreds of people to be so upset over the results and believe the election was bogus."

Easy: People like you and Trump lied to folks about the efficacy of the vote. And as it turned out, both of you had the exact same proof: NADA.

#111 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:43 PM | Reply

"Overworked, undertrained workers manually handling the ballots"

How did that change the final tally?

Oh, right: IT DIDN'T.

#112 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:43 PM | Reply

I just don't like the idea of mail-in ballots and didn't a month before the election and believed it could be a problem.
#96 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-08-14 10:01 PM | REPLY

yeah, ---- soldiers overseas and their vote.

LOL you're easily the dumbest person that posts here.

#113 | Posted by alexandrite at 2022-08-14 10:45 PM | Reply

"this problem that will only continue to blow up if we use mail-in ballots like was done this election."

Where? Specifically.

And what was the problem? Specifically?

Was it illegal voters voted? Or are your panties in a knot because too many LEGAL voters voted?

#114 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-14 10:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Alex,

"yeah, ---- soldiers overseas and their vote."

I've talked about absentee ballots ad nauseam.

For someone whose seniority is 3, I expect better from you.

#115 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:18 PM | Reply

Alex,

"LOL you're easily the dumbest person that posts here."

Shouldn't that be "who", not "that".

#116 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-14 11:23 PM | Reply

Alex,
"LOL you're easily the dumbest person that posts here."
Shouldn't that be "who", not "that".

#116 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

That would presuppose you are a human being, which is a fact not in evidence.

#117 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-08-14 11:25 PM | Reply

Bill?

Please address #114.

Was the problem, as you see it, that too many illegal voters, voted? Or do you believe the problem was too many LEGAL voters voted?

#118 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:01 AM | Reply

Shouldn't that be "who", not "that".

Shouldn't there be a question mark instead of a period at the end of that question?

#119 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I've talked about absentee ballots ad nauseam."

Without ever any proof of questionable votes. So basically, you've LIED about absentee ballots ad nauseam.

Tell us: how many people came forward after the 2020 election complaining about their absentee ballots?

#120 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Newsworthy and funny, DANFORTH.

Way to go! You nailed him.

#121 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-08-15 02:01 AM | Reply

Dan,

In the long run I'm going to be right.

We're going to see early voting become the standard replacing everyone voting on the same day.

Absentee ballots have been used for decades but you have to request the ballot and provide a reason why you can't vote in person.

If someone requests an absentee ballot then chooses to vote in person it does create extra handling preventing the person from voting twice.

But just mailing in votes without requesting a ballot will eventually be eliminated.

In the long run I will be right.

#122 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-15 10:42 AM | Reply

"In the long run I'm going to be right."

The military has been doing this for 150 years.

How "long" is this run supposed to be?

#123 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 11:21 AM | Reply

"Absentee ballots have been used for decades but you have to request the ballot and provide a reason why you can't vote in person."

Why? Shouldn't the voter get to cast their legal vote in the manner they prefer?

Ultimately, it comes down to this: Do you believe it should be harder or easier for the legal voter to vote?

#124 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" Studies have repeatedly shown that gender affirming healthcare treatment results in drastic reduction of depression and suicide rates asking transgender patients"

No, they don't. They show quite the opposite which is why the UK is shutting down Tavistock.

#125 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-08-15 11:30 AM | Reply

"Just wait....(Proof is) coming."

No it's not.

We've asked for proof for YEARS. You've offered ZERO. You've got over 25 years of Oregon using mail-in ballots; where is their history of problems? You've also got the military voting this way since the Civil War; where is their history of problems?

No proof is coming, because no proof exists.

Even your cockamamie theory Dems were stealing ballots from Republicans in their household hasn't produced ANYONE who backs you up. NOT ONE, at a time where they'd be coming out of the woodwork if it actually happened.

You've had a century and a half. Put up, or shut up.

#126 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The military has been doing this for 150 years.

How "long" is this run supposed to be?

#123 | Posted by Danforth

And expats all around the world. There are 10,000,000 of 'em.

#127 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2022-08-15 12:42 PM | Reply

Dan,

Eventually Republicans will target mail-in voting like it or not.

Public confidence in the integrity of election results must be firmed up.

It's coming.

Swallow it.

#128 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-15 12:55 PM | Reply

"Eventually Republicans will target mail-in voting like it or not."

You haven't answered my direct question: Should it be harder or easier for the legal voter to cast their vote?

"Public confidence in the integrity of election results must be firmed up."

How can it be, when people like you are willing to lie incessantly, without so much as a scintilla of proof? People like you ARE THE PROBLEM.

"It's coming. Swallow it."

Didn't you recently claim that phrase triggered you???

#129 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:01 PM | Reply

"Eventually Republicans will target mail-in voting "

Which is stupid, since up until the 2020 election, mail-in ballots have favored Republicans.

Too bad you voted for a moron who undermined the efficacy of mail-in ballots; Trump singlehandedly won two GA seats for the Democrats. His lies about mail-in ballots, and the fact Dems knew he was lying, led to Justice Jackson.

#130 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:04 PM | Reply

Dan,

I consider "mail-in ballots" as being different from "absentee ballots" although they are both run through the postal system.

Absentee ballots will continue to be used however I'm sure they will be refined how to get one.

Mail-in ballots where the voter is sent one to their house without being requested will be targeted by Republicans.

#131 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-08-15 01:04 PM | Reply

"I consider "mail-in ballots" as being different from "absentee ballots" although they are both run through the postal system."

They're not different. Absentee ballots ARE mail-in ballots.

"Absentee ballots will continue to be used however I'm sure they will be refined how to get one."

Why? Why shouldn't it be super-easy for the legal voter to vote? And why shouldn't every legal voter be allowed to cast their vote in the manner deemed easiest for themself?

"Mail-in ballots where the voter is sent one to their house without being requested will be targeted by Republicans."

And what problem would that fix?

#132 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:08 PM | Reply

-His lies about mail-in ballots, and the fact Dems knew he was lying, led to Justice Jackson.

how did the lies lead to Justice Jackson?

#133 | Posted by eberly at 2022-08-15 01:18 PM | Reply

" how did the lies lead to Justice Jackson?"

Democrats won two GA seats, in part by winning the mail-in votes, once Trump lied and told voters they couldn't trust the mail.

Lindsey Graham admitted, during Jackson's hearing, the nomination process would never have happened without the two GA seats.

#134 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 01:55 PM | Reply

Link to LG's statement:
www.independent.co.uk

#135 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-08-15 02:10 PM | Reply

134

gotcha. I agree.

#136 | Posted by eberly at 2022-08-15 03:35 PM | Reply

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