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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, September 17, 2022

Tracey Baptiste: Black mermaids have always existed ... leaving most totally ignorant of the fact that mermaid stories have been told throughout the African continent for millenniums. Mermaids are not just part of the imagination, either, but a part of the living culture. Mama D'Leau in the oral tradition was huge and hideous, fierce and unstoppable. She ruled the water, both river and sea alike, and reveled in upturning fishing boats by whipping her powerful anaconda tail and watching her victims drown in the blue.

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The story likely started during chattel slavery, when people were kidnapped from the west coast of Africa and brought to the Caribbean and the Americas. The mother of the sea came with them because she already existed in West Africa as Mami Wata, a deity who promised fertility and prosperity to her devotees. It was incredibly good luck to encounter her in person. In West Africa, the goddess was beautiful, sometimes appearing fully as a woman, sometimes as a woman with a fish tail, sometimes with two fish tails. Check your Starbucks cup to see how she's been co-opted.

But West Africa is not the only place where the idea of a mermaid existed. In Mali, the Dogon people have an origin story involving fish creatures called nommos. The sky god Amma is responsible for creating these half-fish half-people as the first living creatures on earth. Drawings and carvings of nommos exist throughout Dogon culture. In South Africa, the Khoi-san people have stories of mermaids despite living in an arid area.

Water spirits abound in African stories. Water was the thin veil that separated the spirit from the real world, and those who could conquer water were believed to have strong powers. It's not a surprise that the idea of half-fish half-people would have begun there.

It's absolutely amazing how unlearned people would rather wallow and relish in their ignorance than to actually consider that every thing of cultural or entertainment value didn't necessarily come from Anglo-European roots. As the author of this 3 year old - yet presently relevant - article notes,
Besides, what happens when you stay out on the sea? You get darker and darker, deepening to shades of black and brown that glow from absorbing the sun.
So a mythical white being who lives in the sun and water would need their body to produce more melanin wouldn't it? Regardless, mermaids were memorialized in black African cultures long before Hans Christen Anderson was ever born.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 05:34 PM | Reply

Sorry Tony despite newspapers trying to make money it looks like Mermaids started in the middle east and were called Kulull.

FWIW I thought they started in Greece and if something even remotely like them ever did exist it was probably in south east Africa.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-17 06:01 PM | Reply

Mermaids started in the middle east and were called Kulull.

And what pigmentation are middle eastern people? Are they pasty white? The point here isn't to definitively claim that any single culture "owns" mermaid mythology, it's that the furor about Disney's current iteration of The Little Mermaid featuring a woman of color is somehow an abomination to that origins of that same mythology.

And logically, anyone whose existence revolves around sun drenched warm oceans and seas would not be pasty white in the first place. They would at minimum be brown and as we understand genetics, generation after generation would certainly develop heightened melanin production as a matter of logical survival.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 06:14 PM | Reply

Middle eastern people have a range of skin tones and to no one's surprise they tend not to look like they're from the Congo or Kilkelly Ireland.

And the articles head line is "Mermaids have always been Black".

So uh yeah the author seems to be a racist nut with odd hate of Hans Christian Anderson.

As for theoretical mermaid skin color if they took the pronto-canine to dolphin path I'd guess by now their skin color would look like dolphins which range in color from white, pearl, and pink to darker shades of brown, gray, blue, and yes black.

#4 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-17 06:41 PM | Reply

And the articles head line is "Mermaids have always been Black".

You are becoming a mendacious troll in the mold of Bellringer. If you bothered to actually read the article, the author was pointing out her own personal history as a person who grew up with stories of black mermaids. Reread the very first line I posted after her name - Black mermaids have always existed. She made no assertions about others' cultural mermaid tales in that statement, she simply articulated her truth and her cultural history as a person who grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, spending a measure of her life in and around Caribbean waters.

As for theoretical mermaid skin color if they took the pronto-canine to dolphin path

Why not take the ---- sapiens path and note that light skin people who move to tropical climates produce higher levels of melanin than those do who live in colder climes since we are talking about the human part of the mermaid. The fish part already does have the usual marine pigmentations, don't they? So you really have no point but to point out your own obsession in denying what this story conveys.

Yes, mermaids have always been black in certain cultures and other pigmentations in other cultures. The title means that it is not foreign to many on this planet that the mermaids they've been historically exposed to have indeed been black.

It's the human need to create mythology that mirrors the storytellers' cultural existence. Hans Christen Andersen did not live in the tropics nor did he show any recognition of the actual multicultural reality of those who actually invented and propagated mermaid mythology because of their cultural connection to the seas.

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 07:04 PM | Reply

I saw NYT and assumed there was a paywall headline is still text book flame bating.

I did screw up when I confused the twitter troll with the person who wrote an opinion piece.

And I assumed the upper half would take the dolphin path for the same reason the dolphin took it.

And since I get the feeling you know more about sub-Saharan history than I do I've got to ask if you know the name of the tribe (Nation?) that was culturally so similar to West Europeans that when missionaries arrived they were left baffled by it's existence.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-17 07:24 PM | Reply

Next up, Hispanic or Asian.

#7 | Posted by fresno500 at 2022-09-17 07:39 PM | Reply

And since I get the feeling you know more about sub-Saharan history than I do I've got to ask if you know the name of the tribe (Nation?) that was culturally so similar to West Europeans that when missionaries arrived they were left baffled by it's existence.

Thank you for the compliment, but no, I really don't, though I will look it up. Our world is an amazing place with a rich and diverse history. Much of what I've stated above I only came to learn about through this article and by doing internet searches related to it.

There is so much to learn and know about our global past it would literally take a lifetime - if not longer - to even scratch the surface. Perhaps I should have added the word "Some" to the thread's title so that the author's written intentions would have been better represented, but that's what she wrote - or the Times editor - so that's what I posted.

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 07:52 PM | Reply

Oh, the huge manatee!

#9 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-09-17 08:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So what? THE LITTLE MERMAID wasn't black.

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one. Dont just remake a movies replacing white roles with black ones.

All this woke ---- does is make more people vote republican.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-17 09:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

All this woke ---- does is make more people vote republican.

If voters use mermaid movies to decide who to vote for you have bigger issues.

#11 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-09-17 09:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Jill Salmons argues that the mermaid image may have come into being after contact with Europeans. The ships of traders and slavers often had carvings of mermaid figures on their prows, for example, and tales of mermaids were popular among sailors of the time.[22]

en.wikipedia.org
-

#12 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-17 10:09 PM | Reply

I really couldn't care less if they recast characters as different genders or races, as long as it's clear it's meant to be a reboot or reimagining of an old character. However, when they rewrite the origin story for long established shows like Doctor Who and tried to claim something was always there that obviously wasn't? That's gaslighting and historical revisionism. F*** that.

#13 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-17 10:15 PM | Reply

"So what? THE LITTLE MERMAID wasn't black."

Neither was Dorothy Gale, but Diana Ross played her in The Wiz. People in the future will probably look back on this in the same way.

#14 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-17 10:34 PM | Reply

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one. Dont just remake a movies replacing white roles with black ones.

What a completely bigoted thing to say. Art isn't defined by colors, it's defined by the imagination of those experiencing it. The real person the Lone Ranger was based on was a black man. Here's 100 times a white actor played someone who wasn't white.

White people have no problem appropriating and playing roles representing every race on this planet. Twentieth century popular culture is rife with more examples than can be counted.

A viewpoint like that you expressed earlier either comes from ignorance, indifference, hatred or jealousy imo, it doesn't come from any realistic understanding that white culture - among many features - both dominates and intentionally minimizes the contributions - and even the existence - of minorities. Not only as they historically were, but even in how they are in the present.

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 11:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

The only mermaid story I ever heard was the Little Mermaid, so naturally I thought all mermaids were white. All princesses were white for that matter, but we dressed up like them anyway. Same with the cool kids on the Partridge Family and Brady Bunch. All white. The only Black folk I saw on TV were Basketball players, Soul Train Dancers and Sanford and Son. This reinforced the belief that i could never aspire to be a princess or a singer like Lori Partridge, but I could be a dancer, basketball player or car mechanics ... .or a maid. Lots of Black maids on TV. It's hard to say how that limited my childhood goals and aspirations.

I recently came across an old family photo taken at a baby shower. The mom to be Is surrounded with gifts, baby products in manufacturers packaging adorned with photos of smiling white babies. I remember My little cousin asked, "Is she gonna have a white baby, cuz she only got white baby diaoers." We laughed uproariously, but it really hit home for me that day that the companies making these products didn't care about brown babies. I went to another baby shower recently and noticed the change in imagery that has taken place over the decades. That took too long.

I am delighted with Disney's fairly recent efforts to integrate beloved fairy tales. I don't care if they recast every single beloved character ... ..every child of color deserves a chance to see a variety of heroes who look like them. Every white child already has this, and Can benefit from the opportunity to see heroism in someone who does NOT look like them.

That's not "woke ----", it's reality, and it doesn't hurt anyone to be inclusive. If you don't like the new reboots, just watch your old VHS tapes over and over again.

Speak Softly, What you are communicating to Black and brown children is "Go :create your own heroes, write your own stories, you can't be part of the stories that have been woven into America for generations" GFY

#16 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-09-17 11:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"What a completely bigoted thing to say."
"White people have no problem appropriating"
"white culture ... dominates"

Were you always this much of a parody of yourself?

#17 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-17 11:50 PM | Reply

Where do mermaids hide their genitalia?

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-17 11:56 PM | Reply

"However, when they rewrite the origin story for long established shows like Doctor Who and tried to claim something was always there that obviously wasn't? That's gaslighting and historical revisionism. F*** that."

#13 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2022-09-17 10:15 PM | FLAG:

No, sentinel. It is not gaslighting and it is not revisionist history ... .because Dr. Who isn't real. Dr. Who is a fictional character that a company OWNS and if they want to change up his backstory and help gay kids realize they can be cool too, awesome. How's it hurting you?

#19 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-09-17 11:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Every white child already has this, and Can benefit from the opportunity to see heroism in someone who does NOT look like them.

That's not "woke ----", it's reality, and it doesn't hurt anyone to be inclusive. If you don't like the new reboots, just watch your old VHS tapes over and over again.

Thank you Miranda, you cut directly to the point. The internet is full of black children - both young and old - in complete joy - many in tears - while watching the new trailer featuring Halle Bailey, amazed that a princess "looks like I do." It's unimaginable how empowered children can be by simple seeing someone who looks like them playing roles they've only seen played by those who don't look like them.

Representation is just that, representative. But each child should feel that regardless of their ethnicity, the magic and dreams encapsulated in wonderous children's story could indeed involve the person they see in the mirror.

#20 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 12:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Were you always this much of a parody of yourself?

You really can't see what I'm trying to convey here?

Sorry, I have no help for that. There's no parody here, it's simply my life's experiences and wisdom put into words hoping that others can glimpse my view from a perspective they might not have considered before. If they can, fantastic. If not, I tried. I don't know it all, infinity exits between what I know and don't know.

But I do have feelings. I wish everyone to live as they desire to in pursuit of their own happiness. It costs me nothing to wish them well even if the path they choose is not the one I would and did for myself. If you actually read what I write, I hope that spirit is encapsulated in most of my thoughts and ideas.

There but for the grace of God ...

#21 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 12:12 AM | Reply

I am totally good with a black mermaid. I mean, why not? Mermaids tend to be beautiful as depicted and the film industry certainly has a plethora of talented and attractive black women to cast as a mermaid.

What is the big deal here?

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 12:49 AM | Reply

Alright, I'm being REALLY snarky here - what if a reboot was made with "Shaft" cast by a white dude?

#23 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 12:57 AM | Reply

#23 Seriously - that was a total joke question.

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 12:58 AM | Reply

How about "The Greatest Story Ever Told" with Lawrence Fishburne as Jesus?

#25 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-09-18 01:05 AM | Reply

The only real problem with The Little Mermaid being cast by a lovely black woman is the constant cultural in-your-face wokeness of it.

In a vacuum, it seems totally fine to me.

But God Damn. The Left absolutely dominates our cultural institutions. K-12. Academia. News media. Sports media. Corporate culture. Practically everything. Most people just want to be left alone to live their lives and they sure as heck don't want to be inundated with wokeness when they go to see a movie, watch a sporting event, etc.

I hate being proselytized.

Wanna cast a talented and gifted actress to play Areil? Go ahead. It's all good. Just don't make that casting ABOUT the skin color.

#26 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 01:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How about "The Greatest Story Ever Told" with Lawrence Fishburne as Jesus?

#25 | POSTED BY LEGALLYYOURDEAD AT 2022-09-18 01:05 AM | REPLY "

He's a tad over-rated. Samuel Jackson is a better choice.

#27 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 01:07 AM | Reply

And, as we all know, Jackson can quote scripture with aplomb.

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 01:08 AM | Reply

Alright, I'm being REALLY snarky here - what if a reboot was made with "Shaft" cast by a white dude?

"I'm really good at what I d...."

"Hey, man....be really careful about how you word that..."

"I'm talking about 'Crank', Travis...."

#29 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-09-18 01:23 AM | Reply

" The only real problem with The Little Mermaid being cast by a lovely black woman is the constant cultural in-your-face wokeness of it."

Wellll ... .. another real problem with is that the character was a natural redhead, so it arguably constitutes erasure of and bigotry against -------.

#30 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 01:28 AM | Reply

"Wellll ... .. another real problem with is that the character was a natural redhead, so it arguably constitutes erasure of and bigotry against -------.

#30 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2022-09-18 01:28 AM | REPL"

Very good point. I forgot about her hair because i was busy staring at those sea shells.

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 01:37 AM | Reply

How can a cartoon character based on a fictional character be a natural redhead? Are you even reading what you type?

You're just bigots.

#32 | Posted by RJSquirrel at 2022-09-18 03:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one.
All this woke ---- does is make more people vote republican.

A fairy-tale about a girl who gives up her own dreams and independence to please a man is "woke" simply by casting one black actor?
Being a liberal has to mean more than who you root for in the midterms. If you allow Y'all-Qaeda to decide who can and can't be a Disney princess the terrorists win.

#33 | Posted by BluSky at 2022-09-18 09:11 AM | Reply

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one.
#10 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

^
Thats what they did, hoss.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

...don't make that casting ABOUT the skin color.
#26 | Posted by BellRinger

Seems to me it's the white racists that are doing that.
The way I see it, American racism is a white folks problem. They're the ones who introduced it.

#35 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-09-18 09:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Isn't this mermaid more of a high yella anyway?

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:27 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

$16 and #19 - Thank you Miranda7 for your posts! A pleasure to read! Watching the little black girls reactions when watching the Disney trailer with Halle Bailey as the little mermaid was just awesome! THIS is how much something simple like this can mean to people. Just like what you said in #16, Miranda7!

White people have no problem appropriating and playing roles representing every race on this planet.
Truth! Just look at Gods of Egypt. Ugh.
Or Jesus.
We all want our heroes, our god (or gods) to look like "us". Why do you think Hans Christian Anderson made his character white? It was his life experience and he was selling to people just like him.

There's no reason to be beholden to that original idea. It is a fictional character, after all. We aren't living back 200 years ago in homogeneous communities. I completely enjoyed Black Panther as an older white guy. I celebrated it. I found it empowering to what I regard as my community - a diverse mix of many. This is so much the opposite of "threatening" to me.

#37 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 09:53 AM | Reply

"Watching the little black girls reactions when watching the Disney trailer with Halle Bailey as the little mermaid was just awesome!"

^
Where are the little white girl reaction vids?
I want to see the little white kids freaking out like their racist white parents taught them to!

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:57 AM | Reply

My son loved Black Panther.

Awesome lead actor. Gone too soon.

He was awesome in 42 as well

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:00 AM | Reply

"You're just bigots."

Anti-ginger bigot sez wut?

#40 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:07 AM | Reply

#39 - So true, Eberly. Glad you shared that about your son.

And damn - Boseman didn't let on about it. He was STRONG.

#41 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 10:19 AM | Reply

41

Yeah, I was shocked to learn of his death.

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:30 AM | Reply

One aspect that hasn't been touched upon here is that motivations for these castings, and all the noise that's publicly being made to market them, appear to be parallel to if not a modern version of the blaxploitation genre.

#43 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:31 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#43 - Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This is long past due and I applaud it. Watching those little kids faces says it all.

#44 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 10:47 AM | Reply

"There's no reason to be beholden to that original idea."

If you're making a complete reboot, then I agree. That's why I have no problem with this supposed casting controversy. What I do have a problem with is rewriting history a la shades of Vladimir Putin. Saying it's just made-up art to justify gaslighting and unscrupulous revisionism doesn't cut it. Where does it end?

#45 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:50 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Mermaids from polar regions are as white as snow. Sadly, polar mermaids are endangered due to global warming.

#46 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-18 11:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Truth! Just look at Gods of Egypt. Ugh."

Have you seen that movie? If so, what did you think of it?

I haven't seen it, but based on reviews, it sounds like it was meant to be over the top/campy/cheesy, and it wasn't meant to be historically accurate, although it was probably more accurate than how those who wanted to see an overrepresentation of Nubian-looking characters would have wanted it.

#47 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 11:07 AM | Reply

One aspect that hasn't been touched upon here is that motivations for these castings

Capitalism and talent are the motivations. It's more than obvious. There are billions of brown girls (and non-brown girls) around this globe who are ripe for merchandise marketing and many born since Disney's original version was produced.

Secondly, have you heard Halle Bailey sing? Perhaps she was the most talented person for the job, full stop.

Why is it so hard for those in the majority to ever START from the premise a minority might just be the better candidate for a role than any other person because of their talent?

It's a supremacist viewpoint to always begin with the notion that whites were originally written into or placed into stories or roles and that means any subsequent renderings of the same stories MUST remain true to the original.

Here's a thought experiment. Watch this trailer mashed up to imply that Idris Elba is playing James Bond 007 and tell me whether you think that his portrayal in any way is less than those of the other actors who've played the role. I tell you it's far better than Craig's swansong No Time to Die.

#48 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 11:09 AM | Reply

"Mermaids from polar regions"

[Insert joke about bi-polar mermaids here.]

#49 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 11:09 AM | Reply

And damn - Boseman didn't let on about it. He was STRONG.

#41 | POSTED BY YAV

Check out the last thing he did - "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom" filmed right before he died. An amazing performance.

#50 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-09-18 11:13 AM | Reply

#47 - Hey, who am I to judge for you? You might like it. It was just - weird. It was very white, english accents, had moments of empathy (or at least sympathy) that helped. CGI use was massive (way too much for me). The plot line was semi-interesting at times, and cringeworthy at other times.

It wasn't Battlefield Earth but it also wasn't Sharknado.

#51 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 11:19 AM | Reply

Check out the last thing he did - "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom" filmed right before he died. An amazing performance.

THANKS! Appreciated, Legallyyourdead.

#52 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 11:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's a supremacist viewpoint to always begin with the notion that whites were originally written into or placed into stories or roles and that means any subsequent renderings of the same stories MUST remain true to the original."

This is the strawman which is apparently the basis for the insidious marketing ploy designed to gin up 'controversy', not just with this production but also many others since Ghostbusters 2016. Many people's visceral reactions are not because of that, but because they sense they're being implicitly and preemptively accused of some BS like having 'a supremacist viewpoint' by the producers if they don't praise their work based on the casting decisions alone. And they're not wrong.

For most people, they are not beholden to wanting to see a detail or details rigidly true to the original. Most could be easily persuaded if the marketing convinces them that it's a logical evolution or diversion from the original, but that wouldn't get as many people talking about or making noise about the film before it came out.

"Capitalism and talent are the motivations. It's more than obvious. There are billions of brown girls (and non-brown girls) around this globe who are ripe for merchandise marketing and many born since Disney's original version was produced."

It's odd that you're defending/justifying this cynical form of capitalism. The ends justify the means, eh? We feel good seeing little girls smile, even if the method to achieve it often involves deliberately pitting groups of people against each other to maximize profits? I know you'll probably come back at me with claiming it's the 'right-wingers' ginning up the controversy for profit, and that's true too, but they're not the only ones doing it. This type of marketing is cynically encouraging the right-wing cynicism to achieve their own goals.

#53 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 12:00 PM | Reply

"Many people's visceral reactions are not because of that, but because they sense they're being implicitly and preemptively accused of some BS like having 'a supremacist viewpoint' by the producers if they don't praise their work based on the casting decisions alone. And they're not wrong."

^
Well of they're not wrong, then, it sounds like they know they're racist.

And it's not that you don't praise the new black whatever. It's that you say you don't like it because it's supposed to be White.

It's like you think something has been taken away from you.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 12:18 PM | Reply

As in, they're taking away our racist statues! They're re-writing history!

Yes, we're writing one where we don't make racism an heroic virtue.

You can still be racist and have your statue, like so many Founding Fathers do, but you can't put up a statue just to be racist. Mount Rushmore notwithstanding.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 12:22 PM | Reply

This is the strawman

You need to learn what a straw-MAN is compared to a viewpoint. I expressed a viewpoint.

insidious marketing ploy designed to gin up 'controversy',

Yeah, Disney announced that Halle Bailey would play Ariel in a live-action remake of The Little Mermaid and "many" lost their minds = "insidious marketing ploy." You've lost what little mind you have.

involves deliberately pitting groups of people against each other

By making a movie with a brown skinned singer as a mythical being when said beings are historically part of her culture more than that of white people's?

My, you are one twisted individual bereft of any sense of normalcy, balance and logic.

#56 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 12:25 PM | Reply

As the great philosopher Bill Maher said, "Being woke is like a magic moral time machine where you judge everybody against what you would have done in 1066 and you always win."

#57 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-18 12:28 PM | Reply

#57 - where you and your ilk would prefer to live in 1066 forever.

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 12:36 PM | Reply

BTW - I think 1066 is hilarious as a choice in the context of this thread. Really? Two groups of White Europeans battling each other? LMAO!

#59 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 12:37 PM | Reply

"As the great philosopher Bill Maher said,"

Bill Maher is comedian you foolish person.

If you want to quote a great philosopher try Aristotle.

"The ultimate value of Life depends upon awareness and the power of contemplation rather than upon mere survival."

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-18 12:42 PM | Reply

Ha... more people attacking women and girls. Go back to yelling at people chasing balls.

#61 | Posted by Brennnn at 2022-09-18 12:51 PM | Reply

'"many" lost their minds '

I guarantee you that the 'news' articles about people "losing their minds" over it were already bought and paid for by the marketing department before the casting was even announced. Many right-wing personalities and media outlets coordinate with the Hollywood companies they bitch about with a wink and a nod, if not directly.

#62 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 12:57 PM | Reply

The Greek philosopher Aristotle did not merely condone slavery, he defended it; he did not merely defend it, but defended it as beneficial .

www.nytimes.com

#63 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-18 01:05 PM | Reply

Now tell us how women shouldn't have the right to vote.

#64 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-09-18 01:40 PM | Reply

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one.
#10 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

^
Thats what they did, hoss.

#34 | Posted by snoofy

No they didnt. They remade a movie that had starred a white character.

Maybe next they should remake black panther and cast orlando bloom as black panther.

#65 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 01:43 PM | Reply

They remade a movie that had starred a white character.

Well. That seems to be blowing your life to shht.

Calm down Speaks, abject racism is not a good look for you.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-18 01:46 PM | Reply

Gee whiz, we can't remake movies anymore? Oh me oh my.

#67 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-09-18 02:12 PM | Reply

They remade a movie that had starred a white character.

Well. That seems to be blowing your life to shht.

Calm down Speaks, abject racism is not a good look for you.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack

No fascists taking over the country is blowing life to ----.

And stupid overly woke corporate crap like this is helping that happen.

#68 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 02:56 PM | Reply

Doing this only helps white supremacists sell their narrative that for other races to gain, the white race has to lose.

Make your own movie staring minority characters. Dont remake a movie that starred white characters.

#69 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 02:57 PM | Reply

"Make your own movie staring minority characters. Dont remake a movie that starred white characters."

Or if they do, don't market it in a way that's deliberately designed to stoke "white supremacists" (either actual or alleged ones) to help market it. That's clearly what these people are doing.

#70 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 03:03 PM | Reply

"Make your own movie staring minority characters. Dont remake a movie that starred white characters."

The majority of art in western civilization has been about white people, so other folks are just going to have to sit and wait for new stories to be told in order to participate? That doesn't seem like the right answer to me at all.

#71 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2022-09-18 03:23 PM | Reply

If the character's race is somehow relevant to the plot that's one thing, but if not I don't think it should ever matter how something was done before.

#72 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2022-09-18 03:29 PM | Reply

The majority of art in western civilization has been about white people, so other folks are just going to have to sit and wait for new stories to be told in order to participate? That doesn't seem like the right answer to me at all.

#71 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

It's pretty racist to assume that minority races can't write their own new stories.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 03:33 PM | Reply

"It's pretty racist to assume that minority races can't write their own new stories."

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said, dick. GTFO with that. Your comment only makes my point for me.

#74 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2022-09-18 03:53 PM | Reply

It's pretty racist to assume that minority races can't write their own new stories.

It's pretty racist to assume that stories that aren't about race at all only belong to the race of the person who writes them.

Characters are called that for a reason. Unless race is central to any character's role in the story's plot, then race is irrelevant. Only a racist would think otherwise.

#75 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 04:05 PM | Reply

Want a black mermaid movie? Make one.
#10 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Thats what they did, hoss.
#34 | Posted by snoofy

No they didnt. They remade a movie that had starred a white character.
#65 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Here is the annotated script to The Little Mermaid.
Please point out where it's starring "a white character."
Thanks.
genius.com

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 04:10 PM | Reply

Dont remake a movie that starred white characters.
#69 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

^
How did you feel when the Brooklyn Dodgers started hiring black players?

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 04:12 PM | Reply

I'm so sick of Speaks blatant bigoted racism. White people created an entire genre of entertainment based on the exaggerated visual and auditory portrayal of black people called Blackface! And you know what? Some black actors also performed in blackface. Should they have not done so Speaks since whites invented the mimicry to begin with?

And now because Disney chose a brown-skinned wildly talented singer/actress to portray a fictional character, somehow this is an affront?

Seriously, we've tried to reason here with facts and anecdotes, but that isn't working. There is only one race of people on this planet, the human race. No one can quantify any percentage of ethnicity nor bloodlines that determines the man-created construct of race. DNA doesn't do it, but it does track ethnicity.

It's idiotic to argue or have negative feelings about the portrayal of fictional characters in stories that have nothing to do with the ethnic origins of said character.

#78 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 04:21 PM | Reply

How did you feel when the Brooklyn Dodgers started hiring black players?

It's like these people are totally ignorant of America's history of white supremacy and institutional bigotry and prejudice present in almost every single facet of work and life in this nation.

Minorities haven't been represented nor present in myriad occupations and stations of American life until they are - many times because that minority's talent or ability is top percentile or next level to the point it has to be recognized. That is the history of our society.

#79 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

twitter.com

Couldn't resist

#80 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 05:04 PM | Reply

I'm so sick of Speaks blatant bigoted racism. White people created an entire genre of entertainment based on the exaggerated visual and auditory portrayal of black people called Blackface! And you know what? Some black actors also performed in blackface. Should they have not done so Speaks since whites invented the mimicry to begin with?

And now because Disney chose a brown-skinned wildly talented singer/actress to portray a fictional character, somehow this is an affront?

Seriously, we've tried to reason here with facts and anecdotes, but that isn't working. There is only one race of people on this planet, the human race. No one can quantify any percentage of ethnicity nor bloodlines that determines the man-created construct of race. DNA doesn't do it, but it does track ethnicity.

It's idiotic to argue or have negative feelings about the portrayal of fictional characters in stories that have nothing to do with the ethnic origins of said character.

#78 | Posted by tonyroma

I'm so sick of losing elections to fascists because the woke warriors scare off white people.

Whether it's idiotic or not for them to have negative reactions to movies being remade for other races, they do. And they then go and vote for the side that tells them they SHOULDNT be replaced instead of the side that seems so eager to replace them in everything.

Doy ou want to please the woke warriors, or do you want to win elections? You can't do both.

#81 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 05:28 PM | Reply

How did you feel when the Brooklyn Dodgers started hiring black players?

#77 | Posted by snoofy

Sports teams swap players all the time. Stupid comparison. As far as I know, the yankees never tried to tell everyone that mickey mantle was going to be replaced by black guy named mickey mantle from now on.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 05:29 PM | Reply

Here is the annotated script to The Little Mermaid.
Please point out where it's starring "a white character."
Thanks.
genius.com

#76 | Posted by snoofy

So what? Many stories dont specify race. The little mermaid was a white girl for decades.

But the new lord of the rings show is casting black elves, even though the author explicitly described the pale fair skin of the elf race. They have to do this so the woke warriors wont attack them.

I dont care about this crap because entertainment doesn't mean much to me. But losing elections does. And I'm sick of the left losing elections because they're too stupid to stop making dumb white people feel like they need to be replaced.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 05:33 PM | Reply

being remade for other races,

Gotta bigot, huh? It's not being remade for any one race, it's being remade to market around the entire world!

Politics is not at the forefront of everyone's mind like it is yours. It's hard to even agree with you when I do, if you go off on completely bigoted tangents without a second of awareness to what you're doing.

The comment about the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't about "swapping players" you historically ignorant stooge, it was about a white baseball executive having the guts to place the first black player on his team because of Jackie Robinson's immense talent - far superior to the white guy he replaced. Many more followed and baseball became a better more skilled and entertaining sport because of that action.

Disney is a publicly traded company in business to make money - full stop. Not everyone on planet Earth is white or thinks that every previous portrayal needs to stay static because some people will have negative feelings about it.

losing elections

People like you are the reason elections are lost because you have little understanding of the dynamics of actually electing a candidate outside of what you see in the media. Get off the computer and go canvass, knock on doors, tell voters why they should back the candidates you back by making the connections relevant to their lives. Phone bank and attend rallies or candidate forums. Participate.

No politician except for bigots is talking about the racial composition of movie characters. It's not an issue, it's a wedge used by the right - as are almost every social touchstone that doesn't elevate white grievance and the protection of white feelings above everything else. Sorry, I'm not playing that game.

#84 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 05:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The actual story is a Danish folk fable. Hence the skin and hair.

What a stupid mess. Why can't Disney tell an African folk-tale? There must by plenty of popular ones, pick one.

#85 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 05:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The funniest part of this to me is people arguing that it's the "woke" driving this. I don't have any doubt Disney did the analysis and figured out that casting Halley Bailey (sings like an angel) as a mermaid, will appeal to audiences world-wide. Including Africa, the middle east, Asia, 1.3 billion in India alone, South America, etc., and that losing some percentage of bigots and racists that make up the Comatose Collective is worth the risk. Especially since those asshats have targeted Disney anyway and put up a front about boycotting them.

Disney's brand is you're welcome to the world of Disney no matter what color, what creed, what sexual orientation you are. If you get bent over this then you've self-selected yourself out. When you wake up, the gates to the Magic Kingdom will be open to you.

Regarding "woke" - I love this - from the Editorial Board of the Orlando Sentinel in Florida:

"Why are so many people suddenly flocking to DeSantis' flag of "anti-woke," when it doesn't reflect Florida's reality?

Answering this question means starting with the real meaning of "woke." Merriam-Webster gives us this definition, added in 2017: "Aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)."

That doesn't sound bad to us, especially those of us who grew up in the South, born to parents " of all skin tones " who saw the vicious toll that bigotry exacted on society and started to question its righteousness and inevitability.

#86 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 06:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

YAV, tghe woke movement started in 1933 Fankfurt Germany during the rise of Hitler. A group of five communist social studies professors decided that Marx's ideas of class warfare weren't working in the West, so they adopted Hitlers identity politics (like Mao did) and created Critical Theory - which is any theory critical of the West.

That's the woke. The even brought Antifa with them, from the same place and era.

#87 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 06:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Rat, GFY with all your false equivalences and your lies.

#88 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 06:39 PM | Reply

'Regarding "woke" - I love this - from the Editorial Board of the Orlando Sentinel in Florida:

"Why are so many people suddenly flocking to DeSantis' flag of "anti-woke," when it doesn't reflect Florida's reality?

Answering this question means starting with the real meaning of "woke." Merriam-Webster gives us this definition, added in 2017: "Aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)."

That doesn't sound bad to us, especially those of us who grew up in the South, born to parents " of all skin tones " who saw the vicious toll that bigotry exacted on society and started to question its righteousness and inevitability."

Did it ever occur to you that when people mock what they identify as "woke", they're using that as a shorthand to refer to faux-wokeness, in the same way people mock faux-patriotism?

The article you cite actually reinforces SpeakSoftly's point, since it shows how tone-deaf people are to the actual criticisms.

#89 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 06:55 PM | Reply

Tony it looks like the lone ranger claim is unlikely.

www.snopes.com

I am a fan of Marshal Reeves though thanks to his not only being amazing but my forbearers having met him and if they ever start to make a major motion picture about him let me know.

FWIW Since old Westerns seem to acknowledge White, Native, and Latino's as cowboys but not black people anyone who wants to interpret the Lone Ranger as a mixed race guy should do it. 8)

#90 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-18 07:08 PM | Reply

Gotta bigot, huh? It's not being remade for any one race, it's being remade to market around the entire world!

Politics is not at the forefront of everyone's mind like it is yours. It's hard to even agree with you when I do, if you go off on completely bigoted tangents without a second of awareness to what you're doing.

The comment about the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't about "swapping players" you historically ignorant stooge, it was about a white baseball executive having the guts to place the first black player on his team because of Jackie Robinson's immense talent - far superior to the white guy he replaced. Many more followed and baseball became a better more skilled and entertaining sport because of that action.

Disney is a publicly traded company in business to make money - full stop. Not everyone on planet Earth is white or thinks that every previous portrayal needs to stay static because some people will have negative feelings about it.

losing elections

People like you are the reason elections are lost because you have little understanding of the dynamics of actually electing a candidate outside of what you see in the media. Get off the computer and go canvass, knock on doors, tell voters why they should back the candidates you back by making the connections relevant to their lives. Phone bank and attend rallies or candidate forums. Participate.

No politician except for bigots is talking about the racial composition of movie characters. It's not an issue, it's a wedge used by the right - as are almost every social touchstone that doesn't elevate white grievance and the protection of white feelings above everything else. Sorry, I'm not playing that game.

#84 | Posted by tonyroma

Yeah disney is a publicly traded company that thinks if they dont cater to the woke warriors and recast minorities in what used to be white characters, they'll get attacked and lose profits.

Jackie robinson was an extreme talent who broke barriers. Are you saying that this new mermaid actress is in that spot because she was just so talented and they couldnt find a white girl with her skills?

Yes bigots are using this stuff to win elections, and guess what - it works. Making white people think that equality for minorities = loss for whites, helps bigots win elections.

The right is so insane right now that it would be a great time for the left to pick up swing voters. Instead the stupid woke left is trying to scare them off with this overly woke activism.

#91 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tor, from your own link:

Burton himself wrote that it would be difficult to "prove conclusively that Reeves is the inspiration for the Lone Ranger." He did, however, believe that "Bass Reeves is the closest real person to resemble the fictional Lone Ranger on the American western frontier of the nineteenth century."

Burton reiterated this in an article for True West: History of the American Frontier, listing out all the similarities between the real Reeves and the fictional Lone Ranger, and qualifying it with how his story had been erased from history: "When The Lone Ranger debuted on the radio in Detroit in 1933, racism was at a zenith in the United States. That the story could have possibly originated with an African American could never be published or talked about publicly."

Now look at what I stated: The real person the Lone Ranger was based on was a black man.

The claim is what I stated: The fictional character of the Lone Ranger was written with the very same proclivities that the once living person Bass Reeves actually had in his own real life and the physical placement of the Ranger was the same as where Bass roamed during his activities in the same time period as the fictional Ranger.

#92 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 07:20 PM | Reply

Also from my link: "Historian Martin Grams Jr. argued that Burton's words were frequently cited, and misrepresented across the internet, "Casual readers overlooked the precise and nuanced wording that Burton employed, and were led to a false impression regarding the facts. As a result, it is estimated that over 100 blogs and websites on the Internet today are reprinting the false connection between Bass Reeves and The Lone Ranger, with many going so far as to report the story as factual.""

Again though since for whatever reason old western seemed ok with just about everyone else being represented as a cowboy other than black people I'm in favor of being being able to interpret the Lone Ranger as a mixed race guy kinda like Walter White.......of the NAACP.

#93 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-18 07:26 PM | Reply

I've always seen 'Woke'-ism as being a cult akin to $cientology. It's a mishmash of true believers, scammers, and those who know it's a scam but are too deep into it to turn back.

And they're like, "science is a good thing, so if you're not for $cientology then you're an anti-science bigot and, uh, you're stoopid for believing what other people say about $cientology. Derp."

#94 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 07:27 PM | Reply

hey couldnt find a white girl with her skills?

Why would Disney only look for a white girl? You can't see your own bigotry due to your blindness. I stated above, can you claim that Halle wasn't the best candidate for this role? You're making racial assertions based on what, nothing more than her skin color which means that you are the bigot here, not an open-minded person cognizant that sometimes the best person for a job doesn't have to be white.

Making white people think that equality for minorities = loss for whites, helps bigots win elections.

Absolutely! However white grievance voters are not going to vote for Democratic candidates, period because Democratic candidates don't pander to their selfish, bigoted grievances. Again, if you removed yourself from your computer and got out into the real world of retail politics, you'd understand this.

If whites are offended because equality means that they are treated fairly along with everyone else and have to compete without the unearned advantages of systemic supremacy, then they'll vote for their own self interests, which will not be a progressive candidate.

#95 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 07:29 PM | Reply

Historian Martin Grams Jr. argued that Burton's words were frequently cited, and misrepresented across the internet,

Again, why take Grams opinion when you have Burton's own writing to judge from:

Last, many of [Reeves'] personal attributes and techniques in catching desperadoes were similar to the Lone Ranger of fiction.

Tonto, from the Potawatomi nation, made his first appearance as the Lone Ranger's sidekick on the twelfth episode of the radio show (Trendle grew up in Michigan, the traditional territory of the Potawatomi). In the Indian Territory, federal law mandated that deputy U.S. marshals take at least one posseman along to assist in field work. Many times, the possemen who worked with Reeves were Indians or black Indians, such as Grant Johnson. The Lone Ranger left silver bullets as his calling card. Reeves gave folks silver dollars to remember him by. The Lone Ranger worked in disguise, a technique Reeves regularly used to catch unsuspecting felons. The Lone Ranger rode a white horse named "Silver." Research shows Reeves rode a gray that may have looked white in appearance.

As in Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man, blacks in the 19th and early 20th century wore an invisible mask in a world that largely ignored them. In that societal sense, Reeves also wore that mask. When the Lone Ranger first started appearing in comic books and movie serials, he wore a black mask that covered his entire face.

One of the most interesting aspects of this correlation is that many of the 3,000 convicts arrested by Reeves were sent to the Detroit House of Corrections. This is the same city where the Lone Ranger character began in 1933. Although we cannot prove conclusively that Reeves was the inspiration for the Lone Ranger, he was the closest person in reality to imbue these characteristics.

truewestmagazine.com

I still think you're missing the point. There is no definitive answer to this question, but there is copious evidence lending itself to the likelihood the people who invented the fictional Ranger indeed mirrored in him many of the real life characteristics, style and accomplishments of Reeves.

#96 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 07:39 PM | Reply

"Now look at what I stated: The real person the Lone Ranger was based on was a black man."

I've been trying to avoid unprovoked ad homs up until now, but you're either an idiot or a liar here. Listing out the similarities between a real person and fictional character does not prove that the character was based on the person. Mega Fail.

"Tony it looks like the lone ranger claim is unlikely."

Quelle surprise, but the truth obviously does not matter to him and others with the same ends-justify-the-means-even-if-it-doesnt-achieve-the-desired-outcomes mentality. Just like with the title of this thread, which was debunked in comment #12, but he repeated it again anyway.

#97 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 07:43 PM | Reply

Tony, they put blackface on a Danish fairy tale when there are plenty of African folk tales. It makes no sense even to a world audience.

#98 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 07:46 PM | Reply

Wow.

#99 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 07:48 PM | Reply

The whole woke movement is only in English speaking countries, and almost entirely in America. This movie has no real target audience and will also probably be another woke lecture. It'll die a well deserved death.

#100 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 07:52 PM | Reply

#97

I have no idea what your problem is but mental health support is not available on this blog. Everything I state I back up with evidence. I do not claim that everything has to be exactly as I posit, but I don't pull BS out of my asterisk like you do. Art T. Burton has made a strong circumstantial case that the fictional character the Lone Ranger was based on the life and times of Bass Reeves and he's backed it up with copious evidence of many similarities.

That's all I've said. Tor pointed out a critic disagreed and said that Burton's writings had been "misrepresented" so I posted his exact writing on the subject.

Post 12 debunked nothing. Images of mermaids are found in African cultures long before the slave trade started as the original article noted had you bothered to actually read it.

#101 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 07:53 PM | Reply

For the ignorant among us.

It is believed that all of ancient Africa possessed a multitude of water-spirit traditions before the first contact with Europeans.

Mami Wata is often described as a mermaid-like figure, with a woman's upper body (often nude) and the hindquarters of a fish or serpent.[11][12][13] In other tales, Mami Wata is fully human in appearance (though never human). The existence and spiritual importance of Mami Wata is deeply rooted in the ancient tradition and mythology of the coastal southeastern Nigerians (Efik, Ibibio, Igbo, Bahumono and Annang people).

en.wikipedia.org

Tell us again, what was debunked Sentinel?

#102 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 08:01 PM | Reply

From this thread's article:

But West Africa is not the only place where the idea of a mermaid existed. In Mali, the Dogon people have an origin story involving fish creatures called nommos. The sky god Amma is responsible for creating these half-fish half-people as the first living creatures on earth. Drawings and carvings of nommos exist throughout Dogon culture. In South Africa, the Khoi-san people have stories of mermaids despite living in an arid area.

Water spirits abound in African stories. Water was the thin veil that separated the spirit from the real world, and those who could conquer water were believed to have strong powers. It's not a surprise that the idea of half-fish half-people would have begun there.

Black mermaids have always existed: long before Andersen, certainly long before Disney.

Receipts, not conjecture.

#103 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 08:06 PM | Reply

Making white people think that equality for minorities = loss for whites, helps bigots win elections.

Absolutely! However white grievance voters are not going to vote for Democratic candidates, period because Democratic candidates don't pander to their selfish, bigoted grievances. Again, if you removed yourself from your computer and got out into the real world of retail politics, you'd understand this.

If whites are offended because equality means that they are treated fairly along with everyone else and have to compete without the unearned advantages of systemic supremacy, then they'll vote for their own self interests, which will not be a progressive candidate.

#95 | Posted by tonyroma

No, whites are offended when they see evidence that for other races to rise, they must lose something. So why should they vote for the side that is making them lose things?

Those aren't white greivence voters. They're just average non political white morons, who are struggling themselves, and dont want to struggle MORE so that other races can struggle less. They dont pay attention. They dont know they're being manipulated. But if one side is telling them they're good and need to be protected, and the other side is telling them they're bad and need to be replaced, who do you think they're going to vote for?

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 08:20 PM | Reply

I can not believe that this is even a topic of discussion in 2022.

In 1997 Brandi played Cinderella with Whitney Houston as the fairy godmother and Whoopi Goldberg as the queen, married to a white King with a Philippino Prince Charming. It was a good movie with 74% audience score on RT. I don't recall anyone saying crap about the racial makeup of the cast.

Now, 25 years later, people are bent about a black Ariel?

20 years ago I would have said racism was all but dead in this country. Progress towards equality still needed work but it was mostly correcting historical imbalance not overt discrimination. I mean sure there were pockets but they were the exception not the rule. Yet here we are.

#105 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2022-09-18 08:43 PM | Reply

"Now, 25 years later, people are bent about a black Ariel?"

I'm skeptical that very many people at all are bent about a black Ariel. It's mostly just partisans (on both sides) blindly repeating their partisan talking points without even thinking about the content of it. The opportunists on each side are doing everything they can to rile up both their own side and the other side.

#106 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 08:56 PM | Reply

But if one side is telling them they're good and need to be protected, and the other side is telling them they're bad and need to be replaced, who do you think they're going to vote for?

Replacement theory is the manta of the right-wing magats. You have a bigger problem with your premise than you're willing to examine.

#107 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 08:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Here's the trailer: youtu.be

#108 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 09:10 PM | Reply

A fake controversy to generate interest in another remake. A common marketing for several years now.

#109 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-18 09:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's live action, a remake, and woke. The trailer got 4 dislike for every like.

#110 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 09:13 PM | Reply

Beautiful.

Now let's make this real. There's no way she could sing like that in water. Physics says that's impossible. And you don't get glimmer in the eyes, lips, and on the lips in water. That's a function of the diffraction gradient between moisture and air. That trailer just doesn't match reality one bit. Clearly this is all fantasy in a world where basic physics doesn't apply.

#111 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 09:14 PM | Reply

The trailer got 4 dislike for every like.

What is there to dislike in that trailer? Is the cinematography bad? Nope. Is the snippet of singing offensive or offkey? Nope.

Just what would cause 4 times as many dislikes as likes?

Mystery to me (Not). #RacistMofos

#112 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 09:19 PM | Reply

Read the comments, Tony. It sucked as a trailer. So how is the movie?

#113 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-09-18 09:24 PM | Reply

"Tell us again, what was debunked Sentinel?"

You're behaving like a pathological liar who constantly equivocates and misrepresents sources to justify unfounded statements that you've presented as facts. Sure, I could point out again how you equivocate, and I could quote where a hyperlink you embedded in the blockquote shows the case for the sceptics is just as strong, if not stronger, than the case for the "believers", and I could repeat again how a similarity is not an equivalence, but based on how you've behaved so far in this thread you'll just start typing your deflections before you even finish reading the third syllable.

That's the problem with being a part of an ideological cult, whether it's you woker-tokers or your counterparts who brag about popping the red pills. You're stuck in a feedback loop with the "other side", and you've forgotten that people can exist outside of it.

#114 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 09:28 PM | Reply

If there's just one thing that's worth repeating in this thread, it's this:

"For most people, they are not beholden to wanting to see a detail or details rigidly true to the original. Most could be easily persuaded if the marketing convinces them that it's a logical evolution or diversion from the original, but that wouldn't get as many people talking about or making noise about the film before it came out."

The apologists for the cynical marketing will never acknowledge or address it, though.

#115 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 09:39 PM | Reply

#113 - The trailer was wonderful. It didn't suck at all. Do you always let -------- dictate your perceptions of things, or is it that you are just like them?

Seriously, who the F**K cares what youtube -------- have to say about something they were fired up to hate without ever seeing. From reading about 70-80 of the comments (that was plenty) not one of those people bothered to watch it.

Here's something else you won't watch. Fox News Houston Aftershow - a group of black women talking about the trailer and what it meant to them: www.fox26houston.com (1:20 in the convo on the trailer starts)

I put that out there because, despite Fox Prop bashing this trailer and whipping up their audience, these 3 women on Fox (local) had no problem openly talking about it. Good for them!

#116 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 09:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Right Sentinel - we hear you loud and clear: "Heritage, not hate."

#117 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 09:45 PM | Reply

You're behaving like a pathological liar

How am I lying when I post facts and evidence? You're mentally ill my friend. You invent garbage out of thin air.

the case for the sceptics is just as strong, if not stronger,

In your opinion - which you are entitled to. But what evidence can anyone present to disprove something unprovable? You act as though I never posted this:

"There is no definitive answer to this question, but there is copious evidence lending itself to the likelihood the people who invented the fictional Ranger indeed mirrored in him many of the real life characteristics, style and accomplishments of Reeves."

That's the problem with being a part of an ideological cult, whether it's you woker-tokers or your counterparts who brag about popping the red pills.

My posts are full of information presented to educate those who don't know the full breadth of documented history. Mermaid mythology is not exclusively owned by any particular culture on this planet. Saying so is akin to saying that one religion definitively is superior to all others. It's logical that people developing from the same genetic source might evolve in similar ways because of our shared biological nature.

In my opinion, when a person is hellbent that their recitation is the only possible recitation of truth they're usually wrong and either don't know about or intentionally discount the similar beliefs from cultures other than their own.

You celebrate and wallow in your ignorance and belief of your own superiority. I merely show you information you find disquieting because it minimizes what you think is your superiority. As Yav noted, and your ilk continues to ignore, being woke only means being "attentive to important facts and issues." You find this outrageous. That's pretty much all any objective person needs to know about you to understand your insecurity when shaken from a world that doesn't just exist to serve you and you alone.

#118 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 09:46 PM | Reply

...don't market...designed to stoke "white supremacists"...
#70 | Posted by sentinel

If racists weren't so...racist, then this wouldn't work, would it?
It's like cops and "Swatting", if they weren't so eager to rush into a situation guns a blazing, swatting wouldn't work.

#119 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-09-18 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Heritage, not hate."

I had to look that up. Thanks for making it clear that you're unwilling or unable to argue in good faith.

#120 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 09:57 PM | Reply

"If racists weren't so...racist, then this wouldn't work, would it?"

This logic is like insinuating that LGBT people are pedophiles, and then turning around and saying you wouldn't have gotten a reaction out of them if they weren't such pedophiles.

#121 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:01 PM | Reply

That is an awful comparison. You are insulting the LGBT folks right off the bat, so they have to defend themselves.
Are you implying that even casting a black Ariel is an insult to white folks? Otherwise your logic is BS.

#122 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-09-18 10:04 PM | Reply

This logic is like insinuating that LGBT people are pedophiles,

Ah, no it isn't. Racists = racist is not the same as LGBTQ = pedophiles.

Dude, you are one sick individual.

#123 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 10:05 PM | Reply

That is an awful comparison. You are insulting the LGBT folks right off the bat, so they have to defend themselves.
Are you implying that even casting a black Ariel is an insult to white folks? Otherwise your logic is BS.

#124 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-09-18 10:06 PM | Reply

"My posts are full of information presented to educate those who don't know the full breadth of documented history."

I know you're not capable of self-reflection, but I just wanted to quote this line to admire how special it is.

Hillary Clinton wrote a long book called "What Happened" to explain why she supposedly lost to Trump in 2016, but you summed it up one line.

#125 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:10 PM | Reply

#121 - Wow.
Holy s**t.

I had a response for #120 but I'm done.

#126 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 10:13 PM | Reply

#124

He started out by relying on one single reference from Wikipedia that stated:

Jill Salmons argues that the mermaid image may have come into being after contact with Europeans.
A few sentences before that very same entry is this notation:
It is believed that all of ancient Africa possessed a multitude of water-spirit traditions before the first contact with Europeans.
He cannot understand that both references could be speaking to different source material. Salmons spoke to only the "mermaid image" she did not address the history nor culture of Africans deifying mermaid like beings prior to Europeans arriving in Africa.

And then I introduced further historical documentation of both mermaid tales and imagery that greatly predated European contact and he ignores or dismisses these documented facts. (see post 103) One tribe did not even live on the coast yet still had mermaid folklore enmeshed in their storytelling.

But I'm a liar for pointing out these things to him and everyone else who might be interested to learn that mermaid mythology is not limited to nor belongs to white culture alone simply because Hans Christen Andersen wrote a story about one.

#127 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 10:17 PM | Reply

-you wouldn't have gotten a reaction out of them if they weren't such pedophiles.

"If the shoe fits!!"

- clownshack

#128 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:17 PM | Reply

#121 - Wow.

The lack of self awareness, honesty, and complete sense of entitlement wrapped in faux superiority is quite something, isn't it?

#129 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 10:19 PM | Reply

"I had a response for #120 but I'm done."

Good. Bye.

#130 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:22 PM | Reply

"But I'm a liar for pointing out these things to him and everyone else who might be interested to learn that mermaid mythology is not limited to nor belongs to white culture alone simply because Hans Christen Andersen wrote a story about one."

You're a liar for equivocating "mermaid-like beings" with the mermaid image that is popular in western culture.

If "similarities" can be used to tell a western audience that 'Mermaids have always been black', then it should be just as reasonable to tell Africans that Mami Wata have always been White.

Of course, we agree that would be ridiculous and offensive to their culture, right?

#131 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 10:33 PM | Reply

You're a liar for equivocating "mermaid-like beings" with the mermaid image that is popular in western culture.

Stop being so arrogant and dismissive.

The Nommo or Nummo are primordial ancestral spirits in Dogon religion and cosmogony (sometimes referred to as demi deities) venerated by the Dogon people of Mali.[1] The word Nommos is derived from a Dogon word meaning "to make one drink." Nommos are usually described as amphibious, hermaphroditic, fish-like creatures. Folk art depictions of Nommos show creatures with humanoid upper torsos, legs/feet, and a fish-like lower torso and tail. Nommos are also referred to as "Masters of the Water", "the Monitors", and "the Teachers".

Dogon religion and creation mythology [fr] says that Nommo was the first living creature created by the sky god Amma.

en.wikipedia.org

You are literally an idiot to not understand that the ancient depictions and modern depictions are one in the same but for the continued development of artistic interpretations into more humanly realistic renderings.

My mother told me not to argue with fools and yet again, she's proven herself both wise and prescient. What a complete waste of time.

#132 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 10:45 PM | Reply

Of course, we agree that would be ridiculous and offensive to their culture, right?

#133 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 11:02 PM | Reply

If "similarities" can be used to tell a western audience that 'Mermaids have always been black', then it should be just as reasonable to tell Africans that Mami Wata have always been White.

Again, the arrogance of your privilege compels you to see things that were never said nor purposely implied. READ the damn article. READ what I clearly stated in post 5:

"If you bothered to actually read the article, the author was pointing out her own personal history as a person who grew up with stories of black mermaids. Reread the very first line I posted after her name - Black mermaids have always existed. She made no assertions about others' cultural mermaid tales in that statement, she simply articulated her truth and her cultural history as a person who grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, spending a measure of her life in and around Caribbean waters..

Yes, mermaids have always been black in certain cultures and other pigmentations in other cultures. The title means that it is not foreign to many on this planet that the mermaids they've been historically exposed to have indeed been black."

And I followed up in post 8 with this:

"Perhaps I should have added the word "Some" to the thread's title so that the author's written intentions would have been better represented, but that's what she wrote - or the Times editor - so that's what I posted."

Tor got that part long ago and went on to debating the Lone Ranger.

#134 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 11:13 PM | Reply

I haven't seen the trailer, but I'll bet little white gals are also excited about the movie. It's good for them too, to have some diverse heros to admire. If little white girls want to be Black Ariel for Halloween and little Black girls want to be Princess Elsa from Frozen we should let them do that too.

Replacement theory? seriously? We promise we won't take ALL your cartoons.

#135 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-09-18 11:17 PM | Reply

A screenwriter friend told me there are only some thing like 30 core story types in the whole world and that every movie is some version or combination of those 30. I was skeptical until he proved to me that Lion King = Hamlet.

I recall one of the 30 was "Fish out of Water", and here we have Little Mermaid

#136 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-09-18 11:25 PM | Reply

"the arrogance of your privilege compels you "

Time to sleep. Good night, Father Merrin.

#137 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-18 11:26 PM | Reply

Good night demon spirit.

Don't choke on the vomit.

#138 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 11:28 PM | Reply

Can we cast Ariel as transgender?

Black is so boring.

Give a mermaid some junk and it gets very interesting.

#139 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 02:04 AM | Reply

I see bellringer has posted something.

No doubt it's garbage.

Here's a better post.

Do mermaids have eggs or do they breast feed?

#140 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 02:39 AM | Reply

I see Republicans have been provided with their new Thing To Be Upset About. What will it be next week?

#141 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-19 03:00 AM | Reply

No a film studio decided to create this controversy apparently they didn't feel they were going to get enough exposure otherwise.

It's like they're trying to beat the people's the talk about the replacement Theory.

#142 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 03:14 AM | Reply

it's easily explained...

White racist culture has always ignored
and downplayed any and all other minority
cultures. Most of them are ignorant of it,
because the ONLY culture that is of importance
to them, IS white culture.

sad too, for it is a complete failure of
the proper perspective on things.

from Wikipedia, World Population ~7.8 billion...
~60% Asian (59.8%), 16.7% African (contrary to
what white racists think), Europe 9.8% of population
but multi-racial, North America 7.2% of population
(also multi-racial). Together, Europe and North America,
about equal Africa in population. But whereas most of
Africa is black, most of Europe and parts of North America
are more multiracial. South America makes up most of the rest of
the world population, coming in at 5.5%.

So, roughly speaking, about 6 in 10 people on earth are of Asian descent,
1.75 people in 10 are of Black/African descent (including those in Europe
and America), about 1.5 people in 10 are of White/European/Anglo descent,
and about 0.75-1.0 people in 10 are of South American-Central American
descent...

So, so much for White Superiority or "taking over the world"...

Knowledge is power, and understanding. Too bad Republicans don't
DO knowledge, or statistics, or understanding anymore...

They'd rather have rallies and yell racial slurs, and wear hats,
and burn books...

#143 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-09-19 07:00 AM | Reply

"it's easily explained..."

Thanks for mansplaining that to us.

#144 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 09:27 AM | Reply

If there's just one thing that's worth repeating in this thread, it's this:

"For most people, they are not beholden to wanting to see a detail or details rigidly true to the original. Most could be easily persuaded if the marketing convinces them that it's a logical evolution or diversion from the original, but that wouldn't get as many people talking about or making noise about the film before it came out."
The apologists for the cynical marketing will never acknowledge or address it, though.

#145 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 09:41 AM | Reply

#145 - you must think that's brilliant because you keep posting it. It's not.

#146 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 09:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If there's just one thing that's worth repeating in this thread, it's this:

You went an entire thread refusing to understand that no one was implying that ALL mermaids are black or that the existence of black mermaid mythology stemming from ancient black cultures negates or minimizes the existence of white mermaid mythology in white cultures.

Africa is the cradle of civilization and the genetic link to all human life on Earth has been traced there. To imply that an origin story from Africa was influenced by the imagery on European ships untold millennia later is so daft, it's beyond comprehension from intelligent individuals.

#147 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:00 AM | Reply

A screenwriter friend told me there are only some thing like 30 core White story types in the whole world and that every White movie is some version or combination of those 30.

Don't let other races re-tell our White stories!

--SpeakSoftly

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:08 AM | Reply

Mermaids are made up
They can be any color
Fish are any color
Mermaids are part fish
Thus and therefore mermaids can be any color
This is a stupid controversy

#149 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-09-19 10:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Mermaids are made up

But in certain contexts, mermaids represent supernatural deities in many ancient and modern cultures. That is the genesis of the mythology spoken about throughout the article and the historical documentation noted within this thread's discourse.

That was the vein of this article even though many had to see it through the lens of appropriating white characters in a popular novel and movie as the reason behind a brown-skinned singer being placed into the leading role.

That aspect is indeed rather dumb.

#150 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:20 AM | Reply

"#145 - you must think that's brilliant because you keep posting it. It's not."

The fact no one is willing to actually acknowledge or address the point made in the bolded part suggests otherwise.

#151 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 10:27 AM | Reply

I think "Roots" should be rebooted with Kunta Kinte played by Miles Teller.

#152 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:27 AM | Reply

Will they show off Halle Berry's rack or will they tape her hair down like they did with Daryl Hannah in "Splash"?

#153 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:29 AM | Reply

"The apologists for the cynical marketing"

"cynical marketing."

There's other kinds at Disney?
???

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:40 AM | Reply

in response to Sentinel above...

"Thanks for mansplaining that to us."

Had to be done, for the reasons I listed...
(e.g. Too bad Republicans don't DO knowledge,
or statistics, or understanding anymore...)

If you did, the world would be a more sane,
less confusticated affair.

#155 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-09-19 11:46 AM | Reply

We all know the uproar among the human population over a black mermaid. But what's been the reaction among the mermaid population?

... Exactly.

#156 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-09-19 01:17 PM | Reply

But if one side is telling them they're good and need to be protected, and the other side is telling them they're bad and need to be replaced, who do you think they're going to vote for?

Replacement theory is the manta of the right-wing magats. You have a bigger problem with your premise than you're willing to examine.

#107 | Posted by YAV

And disney is helping them prove their case.

#157 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 01:19 PM | Reply

#157 - Again - you just proved my point. You have your head up your ass too far on this one - all you can see is brown.

#158 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 01:22 PM | Reply

A screenwriter friend told me there are only some thing like 30 core White story types in the whole world and that every White movie is some version or combination of those 30.

Don't let other races re-tell our White stories!

--SpeakSoftly

#148 | Posted by snoofy

A screenwriter friend told me that she's struggling to get work now because hollywood is obsessed with race and she's white. In order to sell a script, she had to parter up with an asian writer.

Yes there are actually only like 7 essential stories, that can be rewritten in countless ways. So why not rewrite them in a new way and create a new story, instead of lazily copying someone else's story with a different type of cast?

#159 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 01:26 PM | Reply

Hans Christian Anderson wrote the original little mermaid. he wrote it about his gay unrequited crush.

it was already "woke" --------.

#160 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 02:08 PM | Reply

#160. A hot red headed mermaid wanting to spend the rest of her life with a masculine man is "woke"?

#161 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 02:15 PM | Reply

I see you didn't say "a hot red headed white mermaid." Halle Bailey's red-headed.

#162 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 02:29 PM | Reply

"No, sentinel. It is not gaslighting and it is not revisionist history ... .because Ukraine isn't real. Ukraine is a fictional country that Russia OWNS and if they want to change up its backstory and help gay Russian kids realize they can be cool too, awesome. How's it hurting you?"

All history is fiction, eh? History is "flexible"?

Gosh, this reminds me of Usenet.

#163 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 03:30 PM | Reply

"Yes there are actually only like 7 essential stories, that can be rewritten in countless ways. So why not rewrite them in a new way and create a new story, instead of lazily copying someone else's story with a different type of cast?"

Well said man I'd be angry if they remade Blade as a white guy.

#164 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 03:46 PM | Reply

Tor- you'd really care?

it's fiction ... who gives a ----

#165 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 03:54 PM | Reply

This has been an interesting thread to witness people who may not consider themselves to be racist, express their racism.

#166 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 03:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So why not rewrite them in a new way and create a new story"

You know something.
If you'd whined about Fast And Furious 2 through Fast And Furious 23 not being new stories?
We wouldn't think this is just your latent racism showing.

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 03:59 PM | Reply

"it's fiction ... who gives a ----"

So's Huckleberry Finn and Cabin in the Sky.

You want to see White people taking black roles in those movies?

#168 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 04:01 PM | Reply

You want to see White people taking black roles in those movies?
#168 | POSTED BY TOR

Who told you Ariel the Mermaid is a white role?
Or did you just make that up...

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 04:26 PM | Reply

Disney's little mermaid is white.

Or have you never watched it?

#170 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 04:34 PM | Reply

"Disney's little mermaid is white."

Not really.
The script doesn't say what color she is.
One might have noticed that in 2022, Disney's little mermaid is black.

#171 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 04:36 PM | Reply

Disney's little mermaid was voice-acted by a white actor in 1989.

That doesn't make the character white.

Bart Simpson is voiced by a woman. What gender is Bart?

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 04:37 PM | Reply

Well said man I'd be angry if they remade Blade as a white guy.

Seriously, why?

It's FICTION, bro. You can do anything you want.

I'd prefer not to spend my time whining about the skin color of fictious mermaids.

#173 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:38 PM | Reply

'fictitious'

Damn phone.

#174 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:40 PM | Reply

Disney's little mermaid is white

The only relevance this has in my eyes is that you didn't see black people throwing a fit when Disney gave Ariel white skin in the original.

Republicans are the most coddled, sensitive little snowflake bitches of any group in this country.

#175 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-19 04:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You want to see White people taking black roles in those movies?

Yes. It would be great to see N****r Jim played by a white guy.

Thanks Tor.

#176 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 04:41 PM | Reply

Nick Fury was played by White David Hasselhoff in a 1998 TV movie. www.imdb.com

How come neither of you two complained when Samuel L. Jackson played Nick Fury more recently? www.imdb.com

Is this really more of a misogyny thing with you two, and race is just the Trojan Horse for your bias?

#177 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 04:42 PM | Reply

Well you can actually see that Clownshack it's already been done.

And yes it's so much worse than you can imagine.

#178 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-19 04:43 PM | Reply

I'm not arguing on this thread but when I see the title...I think of Willie Nelson singing, "My heroes have always been Cowboys..."

#179 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-19 04:44 PM | Reply

Snoofy is right. The original nick fury was a white dude. In the comics, too.

The Avengers movies cast him as Sam Jackson cuz that's what he looked like in the Marvel Ultimates universe.

Anyone offended by this?

#180 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:45 PM | Reply

It gets so confusing. Mufasa was voiced by a black man. Simba was voiced by a white man. Uncle Scar was also voiced by a white man. But Rafiki was voiced by a black man.

It is all so upsetting. For good reason we are spending many hours arguing about this.

#181 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-09-19 04:45 PM | Reply

Mod- It's just another example of Republicans inventing reasons to be butthurt victims.

WOKENESS! CRT! TRAGEDY DUJOUR!

#182 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:48 PM | Reply

Tor- you'd really care?

it's fiction ... who gives a ----

#165 | Posted by Alexandrite

So if not one gives a ____ why are they doing it?

#183 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 04:49 PM | Reply

Speaksoftly-

Because it's different and therefore possibly new and exciting.

#184 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:51 PM | Reply

Mod- It's just another example of Republicans inventing reasons to be butthurt victims.

WOKENESS! CRT! TRAGEDY DUJOUR!

#182 | Posted by Alexandrite

No it's just another example of woke liberals chasing apolitical citizens or swing voters to the republican side, helping fascists win elections and destroy the country.

Is having a black mermaid worth helping desantis win the presidency?

#185 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 04:52 PM | Reply

Is having a black mermaid worth helping desantis win the presidency?

#185 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2022-09-19 04:52 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

LMAO.

Man, send me the drugs you're on.

#186 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 04:53 PM | Reply

Is having a black Nick Fury worth helping Trump win the presidency?
#185 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

#187 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 05:00 PM | Reply

Is having a Black President worth helping Trump win the Presidency?
#185 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

#188 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 05:00 PM | Reply

Is having a black mermaid worth helping desantis win the presidency?

How are you possibly so upset?

There's was a little mermaid movie made in 1989 and it's brilliant. You can watch it all you want.

Now there's a new little mermaid movie. You don't have to watch it.

If you're still furious about this in 2024, you can vote for DeSantis in order to punish Disney.

#189 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 05:03 PM | Reply

How are you possibly so upset?

There's was a little mermaid movie made in 1989 and it's brilliant. You can watch it all you want.

Now there's a new little mermaid movie. You don't have to watch it.

If you're still furious about this in 2024, you can vote for DeSantis in order to punish Disney.

#189 | Posted by ClownShack

Not sure what's so hard to understand.

Republicans are telling white people that liberals want to replace their culture.

Here liberals are providing evidence that republicans are right.

People ARE going to vote for desantis to punish disney. Is a black mermaid in a fictional movie worth a desantis presidency?

#190 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 05:07 PM | Reply

Speaksoftly-

Because it's different and therefore possibly new and exciting.

#184 | Posted by Alexandrite

If they wanted something new why not write a new movie starring a black character?

#191 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 05:08 PM | Reply

Is no one upset the little mermaid breaks her contract with Ursula and the prince murders her in order to get Ariel out of her agreement.

She just has to get the Prince to kiss her in three days. But couldn't. So murder was the solution?

Weird life lessons.

I prefer the original version where Ariel dies lonely and heart broken.

But Disney and the libz have to ruin everything.

If only I was old enough in 1992 to have voted for BushSr ...

#192 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 05:11 PM | Reply

If they wanted something new why not write a new movie starring a black character?
#191 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

^
Ever wonder why you don't have a job making movies?
Just know that nobody wonders that about you.

#193 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 05:28 PM | Reply

Weird life lessons.

I prefer the original version where Ariel dies lonely and heart broken.

#192 | Posted by ClownShack

I prefer the one where liberals dont hand the country over to fascists because they were too obsessed with proving how woke they are.

But people have to learn their own life lessons.

#194 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 05:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It is a new movie. It's a live action version.

Again, if you had made this complaint anytime between Fast and Furious 2 and Fast and Furious 69,420 -- or when they made Nick Fury black -- you wouldn't be nearly so racist.

#195 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 05:30 PM | Reply

Hey Speaks,

Hate to break it to you.

But the Democratic Party lost supporters for supporting black rights, women's rights, civil rights, Marriage Equality, Transgender Equality, Social Security, Medicare, unions, weekends, child labor laws, climate change, progressive policies ...

But. Still the majority of the nation, since 1992 has voted for the democratic presidential candidate in 7 out of the last 8 elections. By pretty substantial margins.

The reason why the country is fkkked is because the way senators and the EC work gives a disproportionate advantage to the Republican Party.

Not because Ariel is black.

Reexamine your perspective.

#196 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""My posts are full of information presented to educate those who don't know the full breadth of documented history."

I just wanted to quote this again to admire how special it is. Some people will never learn.

#197 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 05:51 PM | Reply

"I prefer the one where liberals dont hand the country over to fascists"
"white liberals"

Tell us you don't know anything about Disney...

#198 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 05:58 PM | Reply

Proof of ytpepo racial insanity.

#199 | Posted by fresno500 at 2022-09-19 05:59 PM | Reply

Is having a black mermaid worth helping desantis win the presidency?

#185 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

For quite some time I've called this poster hysterical and out of his mind.

He's also very dumb and can't argue on a very high level or consider alternative points of view.

I'm glad he's directing this ----------- at those who he doesn't normally spew this ---- to.

It's actually fun to watch.

#200 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-19 06:03 PM | Reply

What a waste of energy to be upset about what race are modern representations of mythical creatures like elves and mermaids. And the ones whining the loudest are the same who ridicule other cultures for complaining about appropriation, and the same who engage in cultural appropriation. Mythical creatures are like stone tools in terms of cultural similarities. There's a lot of overlap. And is white culture even a real thing? For example, how is a white American playing an elf in a Scandinavian inspired story different than a black person playing the elf? Are the Finlanders offended in either case?

The real story here is that people are PO'd about the idea of black mermaids. And as a white person I am embarrassed.

#201 | Posted by horstngraben at 2022-09-19 06:15 PM | Reply

I'm pretty sure the people PO'd about black mermaids and black elves are going to vote GOP regardless. And they're always goung to find something to whine about. They have a victim complex, if it aint one thing its another. I get the "woke" crowd can be counterproductive, but Disney having black characters is not an example of that.

#202 | Posted by horstngraben at 2022-09-19 06:22 PM | Reply

"The real story here is that people are PO'd about the idea of black mermaids. And as a white person I am embarrassed."

Who needs Russian bots when we have people willing to post stuff like this on a daily basis?

#203 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 06:26 PM | Reply

Sentinel must be one of those who are PO'd about black mermaids, even after being presented with evidence of black mermaids. Its hysterical that that bothers him. And embarrassing.

#204 | Posted by horstngraben at 2022-09-19 06:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For quite some time I've called this poster hysterical and out of his mind.

He's also very dumb and can't argue on a very high level or consider alternative points of view.

I'm glad he's directing this ----------- at those who he doesn't normally spew this ---- to.

It's actually fun to watch.

#200 | Posted by eberly

Not getting enough attention today eb?

Someone who's constantly playing the BOTH SIDES game after one side tried to overthrow democracy shouldnt be calling anyone else dumb.

#205 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 06:35 PM | Reply

The reason why the country is fkkked is because the way senators and the EC work gives a disproportionate advantage to the Republican Party.

Not because Ariel is black.

Reexamine your perspective.

#196 | Posted by ClownShack

Remaking entertainment to replace white characters with black ones adds to the republican advantage. Frankly I think they have enough advantages.

All I care about is winning elections.

You need to start listening to swing voters. Many are disgusted by trump and his crimes, but many also think the libs have gone insane with their woke warriors and cancel culture efforts. This would have been a great time to welcome swing voters into the democrat party. Instead you're chasing them away so you can feel super progressive.

#206 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 06:39 PM | Reply

Swing voters are not afraid of Black Ariel. Neither are Republicans. Only Speak Softly seems to have a problem with Black Ariel.

#207 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2022-09-19 06:58 PM | Reply

This is the same stupid zero-sum game the Right plays with everything. ---- 'em.
Gay marriage? YOU DEGRADED MY HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE!
Etc.

I liked this:

"To quote J.R.R. Tolkien, '[The] rage passes description " the sort of rage that is only seen when rich folk that have more than they can enjoy suddenly lose something that they have long had but have never before used or wanted.'

It's a broken equation. We will never run out of white mermaids, not even white mermaid princesses. But that poisoned calculus gets dragged into other arenas like school boards, state legislatures, and courtrooms. All the things "stolen" from whites adds up and becomes more systemic oppression as recompense."
www.houstonpress.com

#208 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 07:44 PM | Reply

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't a straight actress accept a part to play a lesbian and the left freaked out and not only did the actress apologize for her insensitivity but she backed out of the part as well? It happened within the last two years. In a vacuum Speaksoftly is rightly being pilloried but in a broader context he has a point.

#209 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 08:15 PM | Reply

a vacuum Speaksoftly is rightly being pilloried but in a broader context he has a point.
#209 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

A point that would be valid to that specific situation. For this one? Yeah, no. SPEAKS lost this thread.

Miranda gets the gold for this thread, Eberly the silver, and Tony for the bronze.

SPEAKS is too caught up in the bigger picture when he insists black Aerial will DIRECTLY lead to DeSantis presidency in 2024. That's a massive reach, but the point about liberal wokeness is valid, just that the significance of this specific example is way overplayed.

Republicans potentially winning political influence should NOT detract free market capitalism, which certainly includes Disney's decision to cast a non white actor as a character that was originally white. Don't bother to acknowledge that the character in question wasn't even a real person, but a caricature of a white person. IOW, you cucks would have a far stronger argument had they re-released the original CARTOON and changed nothing but Aerial's skin and hair color. But this is a reboot with live actors, something that is totally different save for the storyline/plot.

And SPEAKS, if the Dems can't fend off the fascist Republicans based on the skin color of a Disney actor, the Left AND you have FAR more to worry about than Disney's business decisions.

Swallow it.

#210 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 09:49 PM | Reply

Swing voters are not afraid of Black Ariel. Neither are Republicans. Only Speak Softly seems to have a problem with Black Ariel.

#207 | Posted by Miranda7

I dont give 2 -----. Again. All I care about is keeping fascists out of power. And stupid uber woke activism make that more difficult.

theintercept.com

"Democrats fear they are losing white swing voters over racial politics. Three studies suggest that the party's elite culture may be the real problem.

Take, for instance, one of the women in Barefoot's focus groups. When asked if Democrats share their cultural values, she said, "They fight for the right things and I usually vote for them but they believe some crazy things. Sometimes I feel like if I don't know the right words for things they think I am a bigot."

#211 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 09:50 PM | Reply

Hardly believe that said woman would think being okay with Disney casting a black actor for the role of a mermaid would fall in line with "Sometimes I feel like if I don't know the right words for things they think I am a bigot."

But hey, you do you, boo.

#212 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 09:53 PM | Reply

I'm shocked because usually I take ---- for having such little faith in the typical American voter.

and here comes Speak to admit his opinion is lower than mine.

#213 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-19 09:55 PM | Reply

I dont give 2 -----. Again. All I care about is keeping fascists out of power. And stupid uber woke activism make that more difficult.

Its what I have been saying Speaks, you Lumpers are out of ------- control.

You really are no different than the wokes...

Wait until Parents start figuring out the BS the woke Lumpers are pushing ... Youngkin was a sign ... did you oppose Youngkin Speaks? Then you are part of the problem.

#214 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-09-19 09:59 PM | Reply

and here comes Speak to admit his opinion is lower than mine.
#213 | POSTED BY EBERLY

He's struggling, like many of us. And some of us choose to make mountains out of mole hills because of fear. SPEAKS rightfully fears fascism and authoritarianism taking hold here in 21st century America, to which I also have fears.

But casting Aerial as black is the least of our concerns. And if it shouldn't be, we're fnkced anyways!

#215 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 10:07 PM | Reply

I have yet to see an actual person who has an actual problem with 'black Ariel'. Yeah, I'm sure if you trawl the bottom of the Internet, you'll find some dubious aliases barking about it. Like I and several others have said, this is a marketing hoax. It's not black Ariel that could push anyone away from voting for your preferred candidates, it's the defense of this obnoxious troll marking campaign, accusing everyone who disagrees with it of being racist, Nazi, etc. that could do so. It could also piss off a lot of Black voters if they feel like they're being taken for granted again. (Hint: the reason a lot of Black voters turned out for Biden in 2020 wasn't because he was the wokest, most progressive liberal, and black mermaids don't put food on the table or solve everyday problems).

#216 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-19 10:17 PM | Reply

-But casting Aerial as black is the least of our concerns.

Precisely

#217 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-19 10:27 PM | Reply

*Cue Willie*

My Negroes have always been mermaids...
And they still are it seems...
Woke Disney taught her...
That aversion to water...
Is a myth...For these black Danish Queens

#218 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-09-19 10:29 PM | Reply

I think I deserve the Copper for fourth.

#219 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 10:33 PM | Reply

Wait until Parents start figuring out the BS the woke Lumpers are pushing ... Youngkin was a sign ... did you oppose Youngkin Speaks? Then you are part of the problem.

#214 | Posted by oneironaut

Was he a member of the party that is trying to overthrow democracy? Then I opposed him.

Dont want to be lumped? Resist the rest of your party. Do something about their bad behavior instead of supporting them while on the side saying you're not totally happy with them.

#220 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-19 10:52 PM | Reply

I think I deserve the Copper for fourth.
#219 | POSTED BY YAV

You deserve nothing more than a participation ribbon.

#221 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 11:17 PM | Reply

Swallow it.

#222 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 11:17 PM | Reply

My only issue with Halle Berry playing Ariel is her age. Ariel was very young, Berry is not young.

#223 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:18 PM | Reply

Berry is not young.

Okay pedo.

#224 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-19 11:19 PM | Reply

My only issue with Halle Berry playing Ariel is her age. Ariel was very young, Berry is not young.
#223 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Try reading very, very slowly next time.

Swallow it.

#225 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 11:22 PM | Reply

#225 Read what slowly?

#226 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

#227 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:30 PM | Reply

Read what slowly?
#226 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Piss off, troll.

#228 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-09-19 11:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Disney actually had black mermaids 30 years ago, way before Halle Bailey's controversial casting as Ariel

Some fans of the original have tried to prove that Ariel, whose story was based on a Danish fairy tale, cannot be a black woman.

Although Ariel's skin color has nothing to do with the story or its themes, it's worth noting that non-white mermaids have been part of the Disney canon for nearly three decades.

Gabriella was a black and deaf mermaid in "The Little Mermaid" TV series, which aired from 1992 to 1994 on CBS.

www.businessinsider.com

#229 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-09-19 11:43 PM | Reply

#229

So Disney wanted Ron DeSantis to become President in 2025 so they portrayed a black mermaid in 1992 in order to piss off bigots 30 years later according to the Gospel of Speaksoftly?

Wow... what prescience.

#230 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:50 PM | Reply

Just to reinforce the article Tony used to start this thread:

Halle Bailey's 'Little Mermaid' is part of a long history of mermaids of color

Bailey follows a long lineage of mermaids from different cultures with centuries-old histories.

"The idea of aquatic spirits and mermaids is not one that Hans Christian Andersen came up with. He popularized this particular story, but the concept predates his story," Khytie Brown, assistant professor of African diaspora religions at the University of Texas at Austin, said. "It's just one iteration of the story, which points to the overall historical problem of European representations becoming the dominant representation."

From alluring sirens to grotesque sea creatures, here are the mermaids prevalent in seven different cultures.


www.insider.com

#231 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-09-19 11:52 PM | Reply

#228 I seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

#232 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 12:03 AM | Reply

#228 I seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

We know. That is what's so hilarious, you don't have a freaking clue!

#233 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 12:20 AM | Reply

I'm happy to entertain.

Wanna let me in on the joke?

#234 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 12:28 AM | Reply

Wanna let me in on the joke?

You ARE the joke, haven't you figured that out yet?

The point is for you to take Rsty's advice in post 225 and apply it to Gal's post 229 and 231.

Now report back when you see something that you haven't noticed before.

#235 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 12:37 AM | Reply

The comment that Rstybeachtrombone responded to was where I commented that the only issue I have with Berry playing Ariel is her age. In the cartoon Ariel is a very young woman. Berry is 56. Don't get me wrong - she's a lovely woman and has aged like a fine wine but she's a LOT older than cartoon Ariel.

I didn't see anything in Gal Tuesday's posts that addressed age. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't see the joke other than my mere presence being funny in a clown sort of way.

#236 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 12:53 AM | Reply

Damn Bellringer, you are one unobservant, topically ignorant person!

Halle Berry is not playing Ariel. Never was, no one ever mentioned her name.

22 year old actress/singer Halle Bailey is. You've gone this entire thread not even realizing the actual person involved in the controversy even after Rsty and myself directed you to the correct information.

Smh....

#237 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 12:58 AM | Reply

I just don't see the joke other than my mere presence being funny in a clown sort of way.

You seldom fail to entertain, but usually not in the ways that you think.

#238 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 01:00 AM | Reply

#237 I am ------- dumb. I must have manure for my brains.

I totally see it now and I hope y'all had fun pointing and laughing - it was well-earned.

#239 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 01:09 AM | Reply

Honestly, looking at pictures of her along with cartoon Ariel, other than melanin the resemblance is pretty dang strong.

#240 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 01:11 AM | Reply

#239

Hey, you know that it's not like that right? We're all human here - even when we act like peacocks and unfurl our feathers.

I can only speak for me and comment on Rsty because he brought it up. I noticed it earlier when you alluded to Halle Berry but I didn't bother to comment, figuring you'd eventually see that she wasn't being mentioned.

It's all good. Goodnight, sleep well. Back into the trenches later in this new day.

#241 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 01:14 AM | Reply

Yeah, we all make mistakes. I try not to take myself too seriously. If I inadvertently made a couple of people laugh, even at my own expense, I'd say I had a successful day.

#242 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-20 01:19 AM | Reply

"Although Ariel's skin color has nothing to do with the story or its themes, it's worth noting that non-white mermaids have been part of the Disney canon for nearly three decades.
Gabriella was a black and deaf mermaid in "The Little Mermaid" TV series, which aired from 1992 to 1994 on CBS."

Although it thinks it's doing the opposite, the article you quoted is helping make a point that the few people who actually have a problem with black Ariel have put forward. They'd be fine with it if the new Little Mermaid movie was about Gabriella or some new character instead of a transracial Ariel.

#243 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-09-20 10:43 AM | Reply

"They'd be fine with it if the new Little Mermaid movie was about Gabriella or some new character instead of a transracial Ariel."

Sure sounds like the reason they're not tolerant of Ariel being Black is because they're racist!

Sure sounds like they would be okay if the new Ariel was portyayed as a White!

#244 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-20 10:58 AM | Reply

So Disney wanted Ron DeSantis to become President in 2025 so they portrayed a black mermaid in 1992 in order to piss off bigots 30 years later according to the Gospel of Speaksoftly?

Wow... what prescience.

#230 | Posted by tonyroma

More like - liberals were so angry about trump getting elected that they decided to enforce progress via twitter attacks and boycotts since they couldnt do it at the ballot box. Corporations became so worried about being attacked as not progressive enough and losing profits that they started giving minorities spots that had been taken by white people, supporting the white supremacists' argument that for other races to rise, whites had to lose, causing more nonpolitical whites to vote for the side that ISNT telling them they're bad and trying to replace them.

The short version - woke-ism results in less political power for liberals and progressives. Do you want woke activism, or do you want political power? The more woke activism you pursue, the less political power you'll have, and the MORE political power actual fascists will have. And wait til you see what they do once they get enough political power.

#245 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-20 01:12 PM | Reply

False dilemma logical fallacy.

#246 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-20 08:38 PM | Reply

False dilemma logical fallacy.

#246 | Posted by YAV

A false fallacy? So that makes it true then?

It's pure logic. You can either embrace and cater to the woke babies on twitter (who dont ------- vote) or you can stop scaring away the slim middle, who do vote, but are now afraid of getting fired or cancelled for saying the wrong thing, as they watch their cultural memories get replaced and recast, removing the characters they identified and connected with. Meanwhile they're the only group youre allowed to openly mock. Everyone else gets protection. Now you're going to tell these people that the country needs to go further in THAT direction by electing politicians who pander to the uber progressive woke tweeters? They're going to take trump/desantis as long as that's the choice.

Dems need to reject their crazies to win, unlike republicans.

#247 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-20 09:08 PM | Reply

"It's pure logic"

No it isn't. You're giving a false choice to make your point look like the only answer. You are doing that in a logical fallacy - the one called "False dilemma" or "False Choice."

Get your ---- together. A lot of us don't respond well to the same -------- the right-wing uses, especially from someone that portrays they're with us on what our goals are.

#248 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-20 09:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-So Disney wanted Ron DeSantis to become President in 2025 so they portrayed a black mermaid in 1992 in order to piss off bigots 30 years later according to the Gospel of Speaksoftly?

Tony, I won't interrupt your roll in the mud with that pig except to say that when Disney announced they would stop reproducing old movies they recognized, in today's environment, have scenes that were racially offensive that once I watched those scenes that they were correct. It was time to address it.

I don't think that was bad for Disney nor the Democratic Party.

And not everything has to be about what matters most on election day.

It's either right or wrong.

#249 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-20 09:19 PM | Reply

Ebs, I was only making an intentionally-disjointed, non-sensical, illogical allusion to Speaks' obsession over Disney harming Democrats by placing Halle Bailey into the role of Ariel.

Sort of mirroring his own ridiculous argument encapsulated through his mind-numbing conclusion that the motives behind popular-culture-created for profit movies have anything whatsoever to do with electoral politics when neither their purpose nor point has any practical connection to specific politicians nor political party whatsoever.

#250 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-20 09:35 PM | Reply

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