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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, September 18, 2022

Attorneys representing more than 30 of the migrants flown to Massachusetts this week asked the US Attorney for Massachusetts and the state's attorney general to open criminal investigations into the flights. A local fire chief said earlier in the day that the migrants included seven families, with four children ranging from 3 to 8 years old.

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The migrants' attorneys said that their clients were not aware that they were being taken to Martha's Vineyard specifically. They were induced to board the planes with "representations of work assistance and immigration relief in Boston," the attorneys said in a news release.

DeSantis has pushed back on claims that the migrants did not know where they were going, because he said they had signed a waiver and had been provided with a packet including a map of Martha's Vineyard adding, "It's obvious that's where they were going," and it was all "voluntary."

DeSantis has vowed to continue his efforts in relocating migrants. "These are just the beginning efforts," the Florida governor said. "We've got an infrastructure in place now. There's going to be a lot more that's happening."

What an utter ------- DeSantis is. These people did not deserve to be used in the way that they were.

Because Massachusetts has a state law criminalizing the very deceptive tactics used to coerce these people into agreeing to be flown to the Vineyards, it might become the very petard DeSantis' lard ass ends up being hoisted upon.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-17 11:55 PM | Reply

Whether or not these folks were misled is a little early to judge with any certainty. "Daily Caller,"--I know, I know but it's out there-- says documents prove otherwise. dailycaller.com

What I'm perplexed about is DeSantis using FL tax dollars to liberate Texas aliens. What, there ain't enough aliens in FL to fill up a 50 seat airplane?

#2 | Posted by et_al at 2022-09-18 02:11 AM | Reply

"#2 | POSTED BY ET_AL"

I think I read that a recent Florida appropriation bill allocated funding to do this.

#3 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 02:17 AM | Reply

#3

I'm aware of that. Does it sanction moving San Antonio, Texas aliens with FL tax dollars?

#4 | Posted by et_al at 2022-09-18 02:25 AM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Just curious. As a resident of Michigan. How many hours do you lay awake in your bed worrying about immigrants and the crisis at the southern border?

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-18 02:34 AM | Reply

Does it sanction moving San Antonio, Texas aliens with FL tax dollars?
#4 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Florida got an out of state firm to scrub the voter rolls in 2000, so it's probably par for the course to spend Florida money beyond the purview of Florida regulatory oversight.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:23 AM | Reply

According to reporting, DeSantis was only allowed to use the funds to remove aliens from inside Florida itself to other states. Many are wondering whether the refueling stops done in the Panhandle were a way to try and say that at least for a time the asylum seekers were physically within the state boundaries.

#7 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 09:29 AM | Reply

So DeSantis imported migrants to Florida, to justify exporting them.

Only Republicans will think that makes sense.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:30 AM | Reply

-Does it sanction moving San Antonio, Texas aliens with FL tax dollars?

Even if that violated the law, nobody cares.

Nobody gives a ---- about Florida taxpayers

And how come they are reporting "more than 30"?

Why not all of them?

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 09:33 AM | Reply

Here's a photo of the "documents" given these asylum seekers before they left Texas.

Whether or not these folks were misled is a little early to judge with any certainty.

As it is, many of these folks were given court dates for tomorrow in various other parts of the country - NONE of them in Massachusetts. They were told that once there, others would make sure that they'd get to the appropriate venues for their appearances. Since no officials were even informed of their arrival, those assurances were lies, and thus confirms those operating this conspiracy indeed knowingly coerced these people to travel under false pretenses - the very basis for the Massachusetts' law linked to in the first post.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 09:40 AM | Reply

Why not all of them?

Isn't it obvious? The ones who don't want to pursue investigations simply just want to have the opportunity to go to work and likely understand that by challenging what happened to them, they will make some people upset and likely even more determined to stop them from being allowed to stay.

I myself was surprised that there are more than 30 to begin with. These people don't care about US politics nor having potentially been used in violation of our laws. They just want to settle down and become productive - the very reason they walked over 2000 miles to begin with.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 09:46 AM | Reply

How many lawyers have been retained to represent these migrants?

We're going to be commuting to appearances, depositions, etc so these migrants get their justice.

Where is that money coming from?

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 09:46 AM | Reply

"As it is, many of these folks were given court dates for tomorrow in various other parts of the country - NONE of them in Massachusetts."

^
Doesn't that mean flying them to Massachusetts has kind of an "Obstruction of Justice" ring to it?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:47 AM | Reply

Where is that money coming from?
#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Probably printed by the Fed. You know, like all money.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:48 AM | Reply

"As it is, many of these folks were given court dates for tomorrow in various other parts of the country - NONE of them in Massachusetts."

Sounds expensive.

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 09:51 AM | Reply

-I myself was surprised that there are more than 30 to begin with.

We'll see if that number grows or shrinks.

What do you suppose they're owed?

Will they sue or just be the victim in a criminal case?

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 09:53 AM | Reply

"I myself was surprised that there are more than 30 to begin with."

I keep hearing 8,500 a day. 30 is supposed to make a difference?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 09:55 AM | Reply

Crist (and Newsom, IIRC) have asked the DOJ to look into this. Until we know what actually happened and what criminal and civil violations have happened we can't be sure what's going to happen. From the reporting, though, this looks like there are several obvious possible charges. Kidnapping, human trafficking, obstruction, to name a few.

Do you see the way DeSantis skirts the real issue?

The migrants' attorneys said that their clients were not aware that they were being taken to Martha's Vineyard specifically. They were induced to board the planes with "representations of work assistance and immigration relief in Boston," the attorneys said in a news release.

DeSantis has pushed back on claims that the migrants did not know where they were going, because he said they had signed a waiver and had been provided with a packet including a map of Martha's Vineyard adding, "It's obvious that's where they were going," and it was all "voluntary."

So DeSantis won't respond about the lies they were told about having "shelter, support for 90 days, help with work permits and English lessons", etc. but he responds about them knowing they were going to Massachusetts and had a "map" given to them. So he's lying about what was said to get them to "volunteer" and he's lying by implying that map they were allegedly given was worth a ----. The one I saw was a carton map with no scale and a line drawn on it from MV to Boston giving the impression they were landing and being transported.

The whole thing was a lie, and he used these people that were hurting, had traveled through dangerous circumstances, trying to get away from a dictator that he and the GOP call "socialist" all to rile up anti-immigrant hate.

#18 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 10:12 AM | Reply

-The migrants' attorneys said that their clients were not aware that they were being taken to Martha's Vineyard specifically.

If a legal burden was not met with regard to this communication then there is a case. That's my view

What's the legal burden here to be met?

Once that's determined (the legal burden) then do you suppose the republicans might dig into the 10s of thousands of migrants being transported all over the country to ensure the legal burden of ensuring each and every migrant says "yes, I fully knew where I was specifically going"?

If these folks were victims of a criminal conspiracy because they landed at a destination different than what they claim they were told, then that's a process I'm sure will have to documented for a lot of migrants being transported.

#19 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:24 AM | Reply

What's the legal burden here to be met?

^
It's probably something as simple as "not lying to people about where you are taking them."

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 10:27 AM | Reply

As long as you continue to not appropriately delineate between the LEGAL AUTHORITY and RESPONSIBILITY of the Federal Government and the State governments I will not have any discussion about what you're asking. There is no point.

All you're doing is creating a false equivalence which is pointless to argue about. That premise is false to begin with.

#21 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 10:27 AM | Reply

21

I'm merely playing devil's advocate, Yav.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:37 AM | Reply

It's what I do here ... ...

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 10:38 AM | Reply

"Whether or not these folks were misled is a little early to judge with any certainty."

LOL!!!

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 10:42 AM | Reply

You guys are missing the main Massachusetts law that apparently applies in this case. DeSantis is so stupid, he managed to send these people to one of the only states with a law like this on the books.

KIDNAPPING BY TRICKERY OR DECEIT (INVEIGLE)

First: That the defendant used a trick or deceit to seize or confine [alleged victim] ;

Second: That the defendant intended by such trick or deceit to secretly confine or imprison [alleged victim] (in this commonwealth against their will) (to be sent out of this commonwealth against their will) (in any way held to service against their will).

The defendant is charged with kidnapping by trickery or deceit. To prove the first element, the Commonwealth must prove that the defendant used a trick or deceit. Deceit is when one causes someone to accept as true or valid what is in fact untrue or invalid. A trick, on the other hand, need not be untrue.

To prove the second element, the Commonwealth must prove that the defendant used a trick or deceit with the intent that [alleged victim be confined or imprisoned (held to service) against their will. This requires you to make a decision about the defendant's state of mind at that time. You should consider all the evidence, and any reasonable inferences you draw from the evidence, in determining whether the defendant acted with the intent to confine or imprison (hold to service) [alleged victim] against their will.

www.mass.gov

If you go up to et_al's link in post 2 you can read the MA immigration brochure allegedly given to the relocatees. It does list services and gives office addresses - however, there are no such offices on Martha's Vineyard. And of course MV is an island, so these people with no resources would not be able to leave the island without help from others.

To me, the brochure itself - listing offices in locations OTHER than MV - might be the most damning evidence of the intent of the conspirators. They were intentionally placing these people into a situation of harm or helplessness by using coercion and deceit. Hard to see a MA jury not see it the same way, isn't it?

#25 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-18 10:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

And how come they are reporting "more than 30"?
Why not all of them?
#9 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Because some opted out of legal representation. Because some are minors so it's fine to count them not as individuals but as part of a family.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 10:58 AM | Reply

#25 Disputes between the States are adjudicated by the Supreme Court.

Very interesting to see how a 6-3 Republican States Rights Court handles this dispute...

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-18 11:01 AM | Reply

#25 - Exactly right. Your last two paragraphs nailed it.

I'll play along with Eberly. In my humble opinion:
First, the State of Florida has no legal right to do what they did. That is the FEDERAL government's responsibility and obligation.
Second, if the State of Florida in executing this illegal action promised support (I listed what that was) to get them to board the plane and there never was intention of supplying that support then that is misrepresentation and could add to kidnapping and human trafficking charges.
Third, if there was never any support, no coordination with local authorities, and there was (as we've found out) an order not to alert the local authorities, then that could also be criminal.
Fourth, The State of Florida's use of funds on immigrants not in the State of Florida appears to be another criminal misuse of funds.
Fifth, it is illegal to interfere or obstruct legal proceedings and at least some of these people were in the middle of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers are not "illegal" and they are entitled to certain rights. DeSantis interfered directly with this process and their rights.
Sixth, just from a moral standpoint, not legality, this was inhumane on so many levels. One woman was pregnant and in pain on the flight and wasn't attended to. We're also talking about children that weren't even toddlers, and the elderly being sent to an island with no money and no ability to get anywhere else. All to "own" the libs that live there. A nonsense cariacture of the people that live on that island and of the people DeSantis sent as a plague to them. He was dead wrong about ALL of that, but in doing so he made it crystal clear that's how the thinks of them.

This is just so much WOW I can't begin to comprehend how people on the right think this was clever or good. WOW.

#28 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 11:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Yav, thanks for posting that. Awesome response.

My questions were specifically to the migrants' rights and how they were violated. Since attorneys have been retained and issued statements as to the situation, that is why I brought this up.

As to where DeSantis violated either Florida, Mass, or even Federal law, we'll see how that goes.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 11:19 AM | Reply

-This is just so much WOW I can't begin to comprehend how people on the right think this was clever or good.

It's rubbing ---- in lib's faces. Their attention span isn't any longer than that.

#30 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 11:21 AM | Reply

You're welcome.
Sorry I missed what you were going for with the migrant's rights. There's going to be some issues Monday because some have hearings with ICE scheduled and they aren't going to be there because of this stunt.

#31 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 11:22 AM | Reply

#30 - you are right about that, Eberly, and it worries me. If it's 10-15% of the nation, that's bad, but it's reality. If it's 90% of Republicans, that's a problem for our country.

#32 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-18 11:24 AM | Reply

It's all good, Yav.

I doubt republicans will care about whatever state or federal laws were broken by DeSantis.

Honestly, they won't care about the 50 migrants either.

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-18 11:32 AM | Reply

Even if that violated the law, nobody cares.
#9 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Thanks for your constant reminders that no one should give a shht about anyone other than themselves.

It's what makes you a good Conservative.

But, people who aren't sociopaths do care when the Governor of a state starts utilizing Gestapo tactics to punish political rivals.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-09-18 01:30 PM | Reply

This is proving to be one of the most brilliant political moves I've seen in at least a decade. Classic! The degree of horrible policy coupled with the most flagrant hypocrisy I've ever seen is amazing. It's awesome!

#35 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 02:08 PM | Reply

The real crime is the record setting numbers of illegal aliens crossing the border. The left cheered it until now being forced to actually deal with a fraction of it.

#36 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 02:10 PM | Reply

This is proving to be one of the most brilliant political moves I've seen in at least a decade. Classic! The degree of horrible policy coupled with the most flagrant hypocrisy I've ever seen is amazing. It's awesome!

#35 | Posted by BellRinger

A politically hungry governor uses his power and budget for a campaign publicity stunt that involves tricking people into getting on a bus and essentially kidnapping them, and you have nothing but praise for it.

Youre salivating to make him president so he would have even more power and public money to abuse for personal gain. Because you learned nothing from 2016-2020.

#37 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-09-18 02:49 PM | Reply

The reason the boarder is getting swamped is because the ex POTUS, the grifting, peado, traitor orange bastard, shut the boarder and terrorized families that wanted to come in by stealing their children. He left and Biden went back to treating people like humans and those waiting for the traitor to leave the POTUS office are now coming in in large groups. Get this morons! There were thousands and thousand waiting for the traitor to leave office.

#38 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2022-09-18 08:03 PM | Reply

Apply the Mann act?

#39 | Posted by Tor at 2022-09-18 08:29 PM | Reply

#37. They were relocated from a red state bell hole to a blue sanctuary Utopia. It's an incredible act of kindness, when you really think about it.

#40 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-18 10:25 PM | Reply

#40 - it is if you're a low-life piece of ---- that ignores the facts in this saga.

#41 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 08:23 AM | Reply

-Thanks for your constant reminders that no one should give a shht about anyone other than themselves.

Clowm, why the desire to lie about my position?

You think I'm unable to see it and all you out on it?

You're lying through your teeth.

I am NOT telling anyone what they SHOULD give a shht about.

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-19 09:25 AM | Reply

#41 This is a saga?

It's an exposure of the left's NIMBY hypocrisy and it's glorious.

#43 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 09:55 AM | Reply

"left's NIMBY hypocrisy"

A Red State governor sends a plane to pick up refugees from a different Red state, stops briefly to refuel in his Red State. Instead of allowing these refugees to stay in either Red state, the plane travels on its final destination in a Blue state.

Apparently, all that shows the left's NIMBY hypocrisy.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:20 AM | Reply

It's an exposure of the left's NIMBY hypocrisy and it's glorious.

Migrants Sent by DeSantis Depart to Cape Cod with Gifts

On Friday morning, the dozens of migrants who landed on Martha's Vineyard this week filed out of the church they'd been sleeping in for two nights to hugs from the local volunteers. They now had full bags and new cellphones. As they boarded the three white buses that would take them to the ferry, many cried.

www.washingtonpost.com

Yeah, it was sure glorious for these asylum seekers who now will actually have a fighting chance of obtaining their dreams to live and work in America because resources not available in Texas are now available in Massachusetts because people there actually care about their plights and are actively doing something positive to help them.

That's really showing the libs, isn't it?

#45 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#44 - LMAO!
You summed that up really well! The only thing you missed is how they're all slapping themselves on their own backs over how clever they think they are with their "NIMBY" nonsense.

#46 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 10:28 AM | Reply

They were flown to a sanctuary city and instead of welcomed they were bounced out in less than 24 hours. Vineyard officials said they had no room, but a quick check of AirBnb shows way more than 50 vacancies. It is hypocrisy to expect the poor and middle class to accept this unchecked flood and the degradation of schools and basic services it causes. The Fascist Biden and his supporters never have to live with the consequences of their policies.

#47 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-19 10:29 AM | Reply

"Vineyard officials said they had no room, but a quick check of AirBnb shows way more than 50 vacancies."

Then DeSantis should have bought those rooms for them.

Real missed opportunity there!

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:30 AM | Reply

The left are champions of diversity and anti-racism except where they live and vacation.

#49 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-19 10:35 AM | Reply

What racism do you see in how Martha's Vineyard reacted to this situation?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:36 AM | Reply

They were flown to a sanctuary city and instead of welcomed they were bounced out in less than 24 hours. Vineyard officials said they had no room, but a quick check of AirBnb shows way more than 50 vacancies.

You tools keep spewing the identical idiotic talking points with no earthly comprehension of how ignorant and foolish you are for doing so.

The relocated were not moved to AirBNB's they were moved to a government facility - the same facility used previously for people dislocated by hurricanes and floods - in other words a place equipped to provide the services these people need. They're not freaking tourists you pissant moron, they're migrants who don't have money, food, nor connections to the location they find themselves in. Centrally locating them in a single location obviously makes it far easier to help them than if they were spread out in various non-contiguous locations.

The anti-intellectualism exhibited by conservatives here knows no bounds.

#51 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:37 AM | Reply

Apparently, each morning, Bellringer wakes up, punches himself repeatedly in the balls, and then sits down at his computer and types: "HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH NOW, LIBS?!?!"

#52 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2022-09-19 10:39 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

#45 Wow. They have enough resources to accommodate 50 illegal immigrants at a military base, but not Martha's vineyard.

They whined and cried at MV that they don't have the resources for their little humanitarian crisis yet look at the numbers that border towns are dealing with.

You people really are hilarious.

#53 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:41 AM | Reply

I am seriously laughing really hard watching the left have a fraction of Biden's disastrous policy impact them personally, even if it was only for a day.

#54 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:46 AM | Reply

Bellringer owning the Libs

#55 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2022-09-19 10:47 AM | Reply

"illegal immigrants"

If they are illegal immigrants, why is DeSantis flying them from the United States to the United States?
Isn't that human trafficking?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:48 AM | Reply

its funny when we hurt immigrants. ask jeff j.

sick mofo.

#57 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 10:49 AM | Reply

Laughing at a humanitarian crisis is about as honest a read as you'll ever get from JeffJ.

Laughing at a humanitarian crisis.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:50 AM | Reply

#57 Transporting illegal aliens to a wealthy place like MV is hurting them?

#59 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:50 AM | Reply

Based on the pictures and videos of seen they didn't look hurt at all.

#60 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 10:50 AM | Reply

You people really are hilarious.

Spoken by the imbecile who laughs when people who've walked 2000 miles to escape communism are furtively swept away from their shelter by unscrupulous political actors - luring them with lies and gift cards - into traveling 1700 miles away to an island that wasn't expecting them and had no dedicated resources nor infrastructure to handle their unique needs.

Your definition of hilarious needs some work unless in your alternate existence hilarious means the same thing as caring and sympathetic.

Ask yourself this question: Just what are southern Republicans doing to help these people within their own states?

#61 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:52 AM | Reply

apparently jeff is so emotionally retarded he doesn't understand that lying to homeless countryless people, and shipping them around for political theater, hurts them.

i pity you.

#62 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 10:53 AM | Reply

Transporting illegal aliens

How many times do you cretins need to be told that these people are not "illegal," they're documented LEGAL asylum seekers who have court dates and every right to be here inside the United States?

#63 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 10:54 AM | Reply

#57 Transporting illegal aliens to a wealthy place like MV is hurting them?
#59 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

^
This is the same man who bragged about giving his ex-wife the Dutch Oven.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:55 AM | Reply

"Based on the pictures and videos of seen they didn't look hurt at all."

Being kicked out by the NIMBY liberals didn't hurt them?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 10:58 AM | Reply

"They were flown to a sanctuary city and instead of welcomed they were bounced out in less than 24 hours. "

GFY Liar. They were welcomed and fed and helped. Until they could be sent somewhere that had the facilities to house them.

Martha's Vineyard has no facilities to deal with immigrants. There was no agreement to help them. There was no preparation. There was no warning.

You have to lie because whatever it is you are trying to prove is not true.

#66 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 11:14 AM | Reply

#63. Did they enter the country through legal means?

#67 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:22 AM | Reply

" into traveling 1700 miles away to an island that wasn't expecting them and had no dedicated resources nor infrastructure to handle their unique needs."

Do you think border towns are equipped to accommodate the volume of numbers that Biden has engineered or that these illegal aliens phone in ahead of time that they will be there in 24 hours?

Do you have any clue how ridiculous you sound?

#68 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:25 AM | Reply

As a US citizen if I fly out of the country upon return I have to provide a passport and go through customs. Yet, according to Tony Roma Haitian migrants have a RIGHT to be in this country without going through any of that. Talk about being mendacious.

#69 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:29 AM | Reply

Did they enter the country through legal means?

How anyone entered this country does not matter once they've presented themselves to immigration authorities and filed for asylum which gives them temporary legal status inside America under their case is adjudicated.

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

www.uscis.gov

Maybe you should learn the actual legal asylum process and stop spouting right wing agitprop.

#70 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:33 AM | Reply

#63. Did they enter the country through legal means?
#67 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

If they didn't, is DeSantis trafficking illegal aliens?

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 11:35 AM | Reply

As a US citizen if I fly out of the country upon return I have to provide a passport and go through customs.
#69 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Try driving. Or walking.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 11:36 AM | Reply

Yet, according to Tony Roma Haitian migrants have a RIGHT to be in this country without going through any of that.

If you didn't have false conflation, you'd have nothing else. Travel is not the same as immigration stunod. Even a fool like you should understand that difference. The law was posted for you above. Maybe you should read it before announcing to the world just how ignorant you really are.

#73 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:36 AM | Reply

And all of these immigrants are Venezuelans - not Hatians - fleeing a brutal communist regime that targets and murders its opponents. IOW, they did precisely what conservatives have told those under the yolk of communism to do since 1917.

Yet these same conservatives don't show them compassion, they lie to them and traffic them like unwanted animals dropped on the streets.

#74 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:40 AM | Reply

#74. You really need to calm down.

#75 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:45 AM | Reply

I guess next time DeSantis should phone ahead. "Hey Barack, I'm sending some Latino's your way to improve the diversity at Martha's Vineyard." Hopefully he's learned a valuable lesson after this horrific affair.

#76 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:48 AM | Reply

You really need to calm down.

You really need to shut up if and until you have something actually relevant and germane to say.

#77 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:49 AM | Reply

At least you're honest about being supportive of a completely open border and ----------- our immigration laws. Most of your lefty brethren lie about it.

#78 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:50 AM | Reply

Increase the number of illegal immigrants and a proportional increase of human, sex and drug trafficking along with a proportional number of deaths due to exposure. Given that you really should lay off using the word "humane". There's nothing humane about this.

#79 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:54 AM | Reply

At least you're honest about being supportive of a completely open border and ----------- our immigration laws. Most of your lefty brethren lie about it.

Ah, more projection. I've wanted comprehensive immigration reform since it was proposed back in the 1980s and stymied by Republicans every single time it's been seriously discussed. Particularly when President W. Bush and John McCain tried and failed to get the rank and file to agree with needed reform.

Imbeciles like you keep complaining when the problems only exist so that Republicans can tell their ignorant followers it's the DEM's fault nothing has ever been done.

Trump and the GOP had 2 FULL YEARS of complete government control. Did they pass any immigration reform even though the problems were still acute then? NO.

So take your claptrap and shove it up your piehole and let people who actually care try and implement reforms while you spend some time and learn the differences between being an immigrant and a traveler.

#80 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 11:58 AM | Reply

I wonder if some of these places will drop their "sanctuary " status because of Abbott's brilliant idea?

#81 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 11:59 AM | Reply

#80. What has Biden done about immigration reform since coming into office? Further, absent new legislation existing laws must be enforced. That's how it works in this country. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. Your political party has created a preventable humanitarian crisis and you blame the GOP.

#82 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 12:02 PM | Reply

What has Biden done about immigration reform since coming into office?

Biden as President does not make law, Congress does. And until congressional Republicans agree to legislation nothing permanent can be done.

Which is precisely how Republicans want it whenever there's a Democrat in the White House - and even when there isn't.

#83 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 12:12 PM | Reply

You just blather on and on without ever acknowledging that what DeSantis did is likely in violation of Massachusetts law. Does that bother you at all? You cannot kidnap and transport people across state lines using deception or coercion, and in this case, both were done to these people in need.

Do you advocate for exploiting those looking for assistance and opportunity? Go right ahead and cheer on treating people inhumanely and intentionally displacing them and jeopardizing their legal rights to obtain asylum for the sake of a warped, perverse political agenda stoked in fascism.

It's what you do here every single day without fail.

#84 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 12:17 PM | Reply

Kidnapped?

Jesus. Lay off the left wing talking points.

There is plenty to criticize DeSantis for as this was obviously an attempt to troll the left. But kidnapping? Get real.

#85 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 12:21 PM | Reply

Get real.

#85 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You first.

#86 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 12:25 PM | Reply

" Biden as President does not make law, Congress does"

Well, his party has control of both houses, so ...

#87 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 12:25 PM | Reply

Your political party has created a preventable humanitarian crisis and you blame the GOP.

#82 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Liar. This is actually Congress's problem.

Congress could solve this problem today. Except that republicans refused to even debate it. Republicans to not want to solve this problem. They want to exploit it.

#88 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

his party has control of both houses, so ...

But not enough control to make any real progress on immigration.

But you know that don't you liar?

#89 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 12:29 PM | Reply

I wonder if some of these places will drop their "sanctuary " status because of Abbott's brilliant idea?
#81 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Abbott?

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 12:29 PM | Reply

Flint Water Jeff's party celebrated the deaths of the migrant toddlers who perished in dotard's concentration camps.

#91 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2022-09-19 12:31 PM | Reply

"What has Biden done about immigration reform since coming into office?"

President Biden is sending a bill to Congress on day one to restore humanity and American values to our immigration system. The bill provides hardworking people who enrich our communities every day and who have lived here for years, in some cases for decades, an opportunity to earn citizenship. The legislation modernizes our immigration system, and prioritizes keeping families together, growing our economy, responsibly managing the border with smart investments, addressing the root causes of migration from Central America, and ensuring that the United States remains a refuge for those fleeing persecution. The bill will stimulate our economy while ensuring that every worker is protected. The bill creates an earned path to citizenship for our immigrant neighbors, colleagues, parishioners, community leaders, friends, and loved ones -- including Dreamers and the essential workers who have risked their lives to serve and protect American communities.
www.whitehouse.gov
en.wikipedia.org

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 12:35 PM | Reply

When you Trumpers have to lie to prove a point the only point you are proving is that you are liars.

#93 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 12:41 PM | Reply

DeSantis is just as dumb as Trump, just less entertaining. If you're going to commit a felony, isn't it best not to leave evidence of the fact with the victims which directly implicates you in wrongdoing?

The smoking gun in Martha's Vineyard

Popular Information has obtained documentary evidence that migrants from Venezuela were provided with false information to convince them to board flights chartered by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R). The documents suggest that the flights were not just a callous political stunt but potentially a crime.

The allegation that the migrants were misled is legally significant. It would mean that the flights were not just heartless, but potentially criminal. If the migrants were misled, the scheme to transport them to Martha's Vineyard could constitute fraud, false imprisonment, or kidnapping. "There is absolutely the possibility of both civil and criminal liability if people were lied to about where they were going [or] what they were going to get when they got there," lawyer Susan Church told Politico.

DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled. He claims that migrants were provided with a map showing the destination was Martha's Vineyard and describes the flights as "all voluntary." Appearing on Fox News on Sunday Morning, Florida Lt. Governor Jeanette Nunez (R) called allegations that the migrants were misled "categorically false."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

Matt Cameron, a Boston-based immigration attorney, explained that the benefits described in the brochure are resettlement benefits available to refugees who have been referred by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and authorized to live in the United States. These benefits are not available in Massachusetts to the migrants who boarded the flights, who are still in the process of seeking asylum.

The migrants who boarded the planes "absolutely do not have access to cash, housing, and other resettlement benefits which are provided through both federal funds and partnerships with faith-based [organizations]," Cameron said.

According to some of the migrants, the benefits described in the brochure were also promised verbally by Perla to lure them onto the planes chartered by DeSantis. "[T]hey told us that they were going to help us with the rent, to get a job, that was the only option left to us," one migrant, Eduardo Linares, told the Texas Tribune.

DeSantis' office did not respond to a request for comment about the brochure.

#94 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 01:01 PM | Reply

Human trafficking is just another of Rwing Ron's talents.

He has more to offer along the same lines.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2022-09-19 01:07 PM | Reply

" Liar. This is actually Congress's problem.

Congress could solve this problem today. Except that republicans refused to even debate it. Republicans to not want to solve this problem. They want to exploit it.
#88 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2022-09-19 12:27 PM | FLAG: "

Enforcing existing laws falls squarely on the Executive branch.

#96 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 01:17 PM | Reply

How can this not be considered a form of kidnapping? Seriously. Read the definition/s of kidnapping. Look what happened to these people. How can this not be considered a form of kidnapping?

#97 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-09-19 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#97

Hit the link in post 1 for the relevant MA law.

#98 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 01:21 PM | Reply

Jeff's all about human trafficking.
He loves it. He applauds it.
And if they're 1 month old? What's the problem?
Pregnant? That's two for the price of one!
2 years old? They can walk on their own!
Lie to them, do whatever you can - just get them on that plane!

It's GENIUS he'll swear to you! Pure GENIUS!

#99 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 01:30 PM | Reply

#99. If you think this is trafficking as the term is commonly understood then you have manure for your brains.

#100 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 01:33 PM | Reply

#100 It's absolutely trafficking under the generic understanding of the term. What it isn't is criminal trafficking as defined by federal law, as my understanding is that requires it to be done for purposes of labor or sexual activity.

#101 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-19 01:40 PM | Reply

uman trafficking
Learn to pronounce
noun
the unlawful act of transporting or coercing people in order to benefit from their work or service

#102 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-09-19 01:40 PM | Reply

#101 and #102 - Exactly.

#103 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-19 01:42 PM | Reply

" be done for purposes of labor or sexual activity.

#101 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-09-19 01:40 PM | FLAG: "

That is what I was driving at with "common understanding " comment.

#104 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 01:47 PM | Reply

#99. If you think this is trafficking as the term is commonly understood then you have manure for your brains.
#100 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

illegal immigrants
#53 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

illegal immigrants
#79 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

^
These asylum seekers from Venezuela,
Are they illegal immigrants as commonly understood?

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 01:50 PM | Reply

That is what I was driving at with "common understanding " comment.

That isn't how I understood the term. In fact i was surprised to see those qualifiers in the criminal statute.

#106 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-19 01:52 PM | Reply

In fact i was surprised to see those qualifiers in the criminal statute.

Too bad doing it just because you are an ------- doesn't count.

#107 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-09-19 01:57 PM | Reply

Kidnapping across state lines, seems like a federal issue. Arrest DeNazi and his cohorts.

Time to start playing hardball with the fascists.

#108 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-09-19 02:01 PM | Reply

" That isn't how I understood the term. In fact i was surprised to see those qualifiers in the criminal statute.

#106 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-09-19 01:52 PM | FLAG: "

Unfortunately it's common in our current political discourse to misuse terms and words for maximum effect.

#109 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 02:19 PM | Reply

or people.

#110 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Enforcing existing laws falls squarely on the Executive branch.

#96 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It does no good to tout law and order when the GOP obviously does believe in it or not support it.

Immigration laws are obviously not working nor are they humane

They need to be reformed. Biden can only work around the margins.

Only Congress can do the work necessary to reform our immigration laws so that they actually work.

And Republicans are obviously not interested in that. Only exploiting the weaknesses in our laws for temporary political gain.

#111 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 02:37 PM | Reply

the GOP obviously does NOT believe in it..

#112 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-09-19 02:42 PM | Reply

Enforcing existing laws falls squarely on the Executive branch.
#96 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So if the Executive Branch indicts Donald Trump under the "existing laws" of obstruction of justice and unlawful retention of national defense information, what will your reaction be?

#113 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-19 02:50 PM | Reply

#113 give him a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.

#114 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 07:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

fair trial = exoneration.

#115 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-09-19 08:03 PM | Reply

Fair trial = fair trial.

#116 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 08:16 PM | Reply

Donnerboy : "Martha's Vineyard has no facilities to deal with immigrants. There was no agreement to help them. There was no preparation. There was no warning."

Why are they unprepared? They proclaimed themselves a sanctuary yet did nothing fulfill that promise. Nothing but empty virtue signaling.

#117 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-19 08:29 PM | Reply

Tony: "Trump and the GOP had 2 FULL YEARS of complete government control. Did they pass any immigration reform even though the problems were still acute then? NO."

Joe is the head of the party and has the bully pulpit and full control of the government right now.

#118 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-09-19 08:34 PM | Reply

Lookie here -

Authorities in Texas have opened a criminal investigation into Gov. Ron DeSantis' operation to fly roughly 50 Venezuelan migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard last week. Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar announced at a news conference Monday that his office is investigating whether the migrants were the victims of a crime, saying they were "lured under false pretenses." Many migrants said they agreed to fly from San Antonio to the Massachussets island after being promised jobs. But there was no work waiting. "I believe people need to be held accountable for it to the extent possible," Salazar said.

www.miamiherald.com

Do they still hang horse thieves in Texas counties?

#119 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 08:35 PM | Reply

"Why are they unprepared?"

Because nobody said they were coming.

"They proclaimed themselves a sanctuary yet did nothing fulfill that promise."

They're not illegal immigrants, so they're not in need of that promise.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 08:37 PM | Reply

Visitor_
It's funny that you're pretending you don't know what Sanctuary City means.
A few cities have had second thoughts. as a practical matter. But ultimately, the legal underpinning for sanctuary cities is Federalism, which people like you also pretend to have very strong feeling about.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-19 08:39 PM | Reply

Joe is the head of the party and has the bully pulpit and full control of the government right now.

The House has passed immigration reform and the GOP filibusters it in the Senate. Do catch up.

In A Blow To Democrats, Senate Official Blocks Immigration Reform In Budget Bill

September 19, 2021

Senate parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough has ruled against Democrats' efforts to include a massive immigration reform effort in their $3.5 trillion proposed spending bill, dealing the party a setback that very likely closes the door on efforts to include a pathway to citizenship in the partisan legislation.

Republicans have been steadfast in their opposition to the move.

www.npr.org

It's maddening that loud-mouthed Republican know-nothings always try to blame Democrats for not fixing problems that THEY won't agree to fixing regardless of the terms!

#122 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 08:41 PM | Reply

The GOP would lose one of their biggest propaganda components if the border problem is solved or even mitigated, so they stonewall any effort by Dems to pass legislation. Meanwhile, huge profits are gained from having undocumented do cheap labor.

#123 | Posted by horstngraben at 2022-09-19 08:52 PM | Reply

Apparently, DeSantis has funded another flight for tomorrow to drop off Texas based migrants in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.

Florida Department of Transportation reports another $950k payment to Vertol. Looks like the next DeSantis immigrant flight leaves San Antonio tomorrow AM on its way to Delaware. 15 minute layover in FL

twitter.com

Here's hoping the Bexar County sheriff catches and detains any and all conspirators involved in this vile trick upon the unwitting, and perhaps impounds the planes involved as evidence in a crime scene.

#124 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-09-19 09:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

how come they are reporting "more than 30"?
Why not all of them?
#9 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I've seen some stupid ---- posted here over the years. But this one belongs in a museum.

#125 | Posted by JOE at 2022-09-20 05:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Poor thing, lil joe.

A question asked and answers with a respectful answer 2 days ago.

You show up begging to have sand kicked in your little pimply skinny face yet again.

I don't have time to slap your wimpy ass around today.

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could muster the strength to debate me with some competitiveness? Just once?

#126 | Posted by eberly at 2022-09-20 08:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#113 give him a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.

#114 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-09-19 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

The trumpturd method is simple...put the word fair in front of it and then when the outcome is not to their liking then the trial or election was "rigged" and "stolen".

Dotards trial will be no different. Any reason to riot on behalf of GQP Jim Jones.

Their playbook is more transparent than Belichick videotaping other teams practices.

#127 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-09-20 08:42 AM | Reply

"Senate Official Blocks Immigration Reform"

That's because with Roe off the table, scary brown hoards invading from the south is the only reliable play in their book to scare the old white sheep to voting to allow billionaires dictate social and fiscal policies.

#128 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-09-20 08:44 AM | Reply

"#113 give him a fair trial"

Curuous, were Trump's two impeachment trials fair?

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-09-20 09:21 AM | Reply

That's because with Roe off the table, scary brown hoards invading from the south is the only reliable play in their book to scare the old white sheep to voting to allow billionaires dictate social and fiscal policies.

You got that 100% right. Plus if the GOP got control of Congress and had to write laws and have it go to their Courts, and they did what they say they'd do, it'd be all over for them.

There is no winning by actually getting what they say they want. There's only winning for them in exploiting fear, uncertainty, doubt, hate, anger, victimhood, and blaming everyone else for their weaknesses and failures.

#130 | Posted by YAV at 2022-09-20 09:52 AM | Reply

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