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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, November 15, 2022

A team of researchers at the University of British Columbia, working with two wealthy donors has found that transferring money from rich people to poor people can increase the level of happiness reported by the poor people who receive the money.

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No ---- ----.

#1 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-11-15 02:42 PM | Reply

I would have loved to have been part of this research.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2022-11-15 03:27 PM | Reply

Does it work if the person giving is white, and the person receiving is black?

Asking for the segregationist Boaz.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-15 03:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

In the Republican version of this study, the poor were given guns.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-15 04:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

I'm trying to figure out the point that Boaz is trying to make in posting this article.

Would Boaz rather poor people were miserable? Is it making Boaz miserable that poor people are being made happier?

Sometimes the motive of the person who posts the article is more interesting than the actual article.

#5 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2022-11-15 05:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In the Republican version of this study, the poor were given guns. #4 | Posted by snoofy

That might have had the same result. If you teach a man to fish ...

#6 | Posted by censored at 2022-11-15 06:30 PM | Reply

Other findings in the study:

Men who receive a daily ------- show an increase in happiness

Women whose husbands do the dishes without being asked show an increase in happiness

Children who are given candy and allowed to stay up past their bedtimes show an increase in happiness.

#7 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-11-15 06:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Capitalist Social Democracies spend a lot in taxes... until your realize all the yuge list of benefits for THEIR PEOPLE.

Most even have less property taxes than most Americans on top of all the other protections from dictatorial neoliberal corporate OWNERSHIP of their lives.

A business can already treat you like crap, though not all do, intimidate you, make you fear for your livelihood, home, life, marriage, family...

You really don't want them giving orders to your politicians who are supposed to represent you in our representative government.

You only have the rights you do because corporations haven't happened to take them away yet.

Citizens United Explained

The 2010 Supreme Court decision further tilted political influence toward wealthy donors and corporations.

www.brennancenter.org

I've heard supposedly religious people say in an dismissive way, "Well, Jesus said, "You'll have the poor with you always."

As usual, they quote text out of context.

6While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the Leper, 7a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.

8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

10Aware of this, Jesus said to them,

"Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, a but you will not always have me.

12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."

biblehub.com

The point was telling his disciples that he would be dead in a few days... the contrast was they poor will still be there for them to be concerned about.... not that they should just accept that there will always be poor people.

That isn't the case in countries with lowest poverty rates. they don't just accept that there will tons of poor people and that that's OK.

Guess which countries..

confrontingpoverty.org

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2022-11-15 07:19 PM | Reply

"not that they should just accept that there will always be poor people."

Eberly is on record accepting that.

Presumably all Republicans are, bit Eberly is a rare animal -- a Republican who isn't afraid to tell us what he really believes.

Corky, your comment reminds me of the comment that Christian Missionaries never address the root causes that make their Missionary work so necessary.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-15 08:10 PM | Reply

Guess which countries... lowest poverty rates

Country Overall Children Poverty Gap
Iceland 5.4 5.8 27.2
Denmark 5.5 2.9 31.0
Finland 6.3 3.6 21.0
France 8.3 11.5 23.9
Netherlands 8.3 10.9 31.6
Norway 8.4 8.0 34.3
Switzerland 9.1 9.5 26.2
Sweden 9.3 9.3 22.5
Belgium 9.7 12.3 21.6
Austria 9.8 11.5 35.4
Ireland 9.8 10.8 3.3
Hungary 10.1 11.8 29.2
Poland 10.3 9.3 28.4
Germany 10.4 12.3 26.5
New Zealand 10.9 14.1 26.2
Luxembourg 11.1 13.0 28.9
United Kingdom 11.1 11.8 35.5
Australia 12.1 12.5 28.7
Canada 12.4 14.2 30.4
Portugal 12.5 15.5 29.4
Italy 13.7 17.3 40.8
Greece 14.4 17.6 35.3
Japan 15.7 13.9 33.7
Mexico 16.6 19.8 33.5
Korea 17.4 14.5 35.5
25 country average 10.7 11.7 29.6
United States 17.8 20.9 39.8

---- Mexico has a lower poverty rate

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2022-11-15 10:15 PM | Reply

All children are impoverished.

#11 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-15 11:06 PM | Reply

As are the vast majority of young adults.

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-15 11:06 PM | Reply

"Capitalist Social Democracies spend a lot in taxes... until your realize all the yuge list of benefits for THEIR PEOPLE."

Yeah. Taxes on median household income earnings in western europe would be somewhere around double of that of the same in the US. And that's before you factor in the value-added tax, which for a Flahridah gringo like yourself is best viewed as a ~20%ish sales tax.

Are you suggesting that the US follow that tried, proven, and often repeated model?

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-15 11:10 PM | Reply

"Most even have less property taxes than most Americans..."

In Germany, on a house valued at $500 EURO, property tax is around $200-$400 dollars. Per year.

You do pay 10% of the value of the house upfront at the time of purchase though.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-15 11:11 PM | Reply

"Would Boaz rather poor people were miserable? Is it making Boaz miserable that poor people are being made happier?"

To assess the actual value, you would need to also take into account the dissatisfaction of those whose money was taken to give to the poor.

In this case, the money was donated by a handful of wealthy supporters. We can rationally assume that they gained more satisfaction from donating the money than they would have from spending it themselves, so in this case there is no dissatisfaction.

But if it were government policy where money would be taken from higher income earners and given to the poor, particularly in the amounts listed, the dissatisfaction (or unhappiness) by those whose money was taken may outweigh, or at least negate the happiness of those to whom the money was given.

#15 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-15 11:17 PM | Reply

Funny, the authors of the above poverty article seem to have met Mythbomber....

America's Poor Are Worse Off Than Elsewhere

The myth that the poor in the United States are not so bad off can be found in a wide range of places. It basically reflects the idea that those in poverty have nothing to complain about " that given the conditions in less developed countries, things could be much worse.

It is certainly true that if we compare the U.S. to countries in sub-Saharan Africa, physical poverty in the U.S. is obviously less extreme. The United States does not have the widespread famine and severe stunting of children that is sometimes found in extremely poor countries.

However, most analysts would argue that the more relevant comparison would be the group of other high economy countries such as those found in the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia, and so on.

In comparing poverty in the U.S. to these OECD countries, we find that American poverty is both more prevalent and more extreme."

confrontingpoverty.org

We have a worse poverty rate that ---- Mexico.

Mainly because of paranoid rwingers afraid of capitalist social democracy... and who lie about that being the same as Soviet-style socialism.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2022-11-15 11:29 PM | Reply

The poor?

Doesn't everyone like free money?

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2022-11-16 09:54 AM | Reply

If people have enough to make the bare essentials available and take _some_ of the pressure off, an extremely large percentage will feel relief. This has been known for centuries.

Some countries even enshrine this in their tax systems and their mores. Scandinavian countries are a great example.

This isn't about "free money."
This is about meeting level 1 of Maslow's 5 level hierarchy of needs. This at the very first and lowest level. Meeting the core physiological needs.

#18 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-16 10:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This isn't about "free money."

It is when you're a Republican.

Almost everything that improves the life of the poor can be scoffed at with "They just want Free Money" as Eberly has done above.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-16 10:28 AM | Reply

"This is about meeting level 1 of Maslow's 5 level hierarchy of needs. This at the very first and lowest level. Meeting the core physiological needs."

Wait, are you telling me we shouldn't enjoy the suffering and struggles of those with less? That sounds almost unamerican.

#20 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2022-11-16 10:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I was stating why there was a significant feeling of relief and happiness that occurred as a result of this experiment.
It's also an experiment we keep repeating with the same results and then act as if it was something revelational.

I believe we don't take "lessons learned" and put it into practice because so many need to have someone to demonize and vilify.

#21 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-16 10:51 AM | Reply

This is about meeting level 1 of Maslow's 5 level hierarchy of needs. This at the very first and lowest level. Meeting the core physiological needs.
#18 | POSTED BY YAV

This is first order Lumper thinking, the down side is long term, you get more of it, people just getting their physiological needs met. But not going higher because they are satiated. Its simple incentives. Lets do better..

Give a man a job, any job, you can give him the money even more than the job is worth, but this will meet his Esteem needs in the Maslow hierarchy. Give a man a sense of purpose, WPA comes to mind. Clean the streets, make trails, harvest ballots, whatever.

"I think a man working outdoors feels more like a man if he can have a bottle of suds. That's only my opinion." ~ Andy

This is the Japanese way, I think it works pretty well on leveling up the hierarchy of needs.

#22 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-11-16 10:54 AM | Reply

I believe we don't take "lessons learned" and put it into practice because so many need to have someone to demonize and vilify.

They don't scale that's the problem, in numbers or timelines.

No cash bail is a good idea for certain cases, but its impossible to write a law to describe it without roping in violent criminals.

#23 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-11-16 10:56 AM | Reply

Doesn't everyone like free money?
#17 | POSTED BY EBERLY

There's rarely any such thing as "free" money.

#24 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2022-11-16 11:07 AM | Reply

This is first order Lumper thinking,

You are, foremost and above all, remarkably stupid.

#25 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-16 11:18 AM | Reply

"This is the Japanese way, I think it works pretty well on leveling up the hierarchy of needs."

#22 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Explains their incredibly high suicide rate.

#26 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-11-16 11:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If the poor are being given enough to make them happy, then that means they're getting too much.

The point isn't to support them indefinitely which would happen if they have no incentive.

The point is to give them enough to survive while they find their own way in life unless they are mentally or physically impaired.

#27 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-11-16 09:06 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

Nothing wrong with "free money" but how much is really needed to prevent starvation and provide shelter?

#28 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-11-16 09:11 PM | Reply

"If the poor are being given enough to make them happy, then that means they're getting too much."

Tell us you're not a real Christian without using those specific words.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-11-16 09:59 PM | Reply

#29 - Glad I refreshed before I posted what I had typed. That was polite.

#30 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-16 10:01 PM | Reply

"Some countries even enshrine this in their tax systems and their mores. Scandinavian countries are a great example."

"In 2019 a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay (in the US) faced total net labour taxes of only 10%, according to analysis by the oecd, a club of mostly rich countries. In egalitarian Sweden the rate was nearly 33%."

www.economist.com

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 01:03 AM | Reply

"This is about meeting level 1 of Maslow's 5 level hierarchy of needs."

Money is Level one?

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 01:05 AM | Reply

"Almost everything that improves the life of the poor can be scoffed at with "They just want Free Money" as Eberly has done above."

Tehcnically, this is about happiness. And if you're being objective, you care just as much about the happiness of the rich as you do the poor. And everyone in-between for that matter.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 01:06 AM | Reply

"I was stating why there was a significant feeling of relief and happiness that occurred as a result of this experiment."

It wasn't a valid expirement. Not if it was intended to quantify net gains or losses in happiness.

If the money given to the poor was in the form of willing donations, it would always result in a net happiness gain. If it were taken from someone who was forced to give it up, that would be a loss in overall happiness.

Of course you might also need to take into account the hapiness resulting from increased confiscation of wealth from those who support it, even if they don't benefit from the money themselves.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 01:10 AM | Reply

Money is Level one?

It can resolve the physiological need.

If the money given to the poor was in the form of willing donations, it would always result in a net happiness gain. If it were taken from someone who was forced to give it up, that would be a loss in overall happiness.

Nah ...

This is a proportional issue, government stole 1% from someone, and gave someone else 100% of their income.

It's all relative. How much money does a Billionaire need? Would he miss a private jet ride to Seattle so some one can live for a year? Do you think the Billionaires happiness changed?

Finally happiness isn't derived from getting something for free this is where Yav is off his rocker.

#35 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-11-17 01:22 AM | Reply

"Yav" didn't say that, and you remain a remarkable idiot..

#36 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-17 07:46 AM | Reply

"There's rarely any such thing as "free" money."

Sure there is. Trump gets it all the time.

#37 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-11-17 08:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Twin,

The rich exploit the system so I suppose the poor should to.

As someone middle class who basically gets all my income taxed as payroll, where's my gimme?

I want some gimme too.

#38 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-11-17 10:09 AM | Reply

"The rich exploit the system so I suppose the poor should to."

You're not equating the exploitation of the wealthy with the desperate, are you?

#39 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2022-11-17 10:13 AM | Reply

"The rich exploit the system so I suppose the poor should to."

Equating survival with buying a fifth vacation mansion is not a good equivalence.

#40 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-11-17 10:26 AM | Reply

"In 2019 a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay (in the US) faced total net labour taxes of only 10%, according to analysis by the oecd, a club of mostly rich countries. In egalitarian Sweden the rate was nearly 33%."

The one in Sweden is happier healthier and safer.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-17 10:36 AM | Reply

#41 - it's also such a stupid point and one that completely misses the ENTIRE point of what I posted. CEO pay difference between an average Swede and a Swedish CEO is nothing like it is here in the US. The delta in Denmark is remarkably small when viewed in comparison to the US.

#42 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-17 10:59 AM | Reply

SO... interesting to see that MB is proud that the US is last among the big nations in poverty rate.

Just the way he likes it, apparently.

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2022-11-17 11:33 AM | Reply

"it's also such a stupid point"

These mouthbreathers truly believe that when Uncle Sam reaches into your pocketbook, that's bad. But when United Health reaches into your pocketbook, which never happens in Sweden? Well that's perfectly fine.

A third grader could see the idiocy there.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-17 12:37 PM | Reply

The Top 7 Happiest Countries in the World for 2021 in order:

Finland
Denmark
Switzerland
Iceland
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden

#45 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-17 12:50 PM | Reply

Yav: I reject that list so thoroughly. Maybe using criteria set out by white people. I remember about five years ago on one of those surveys the #1 happiest country was considered to be Paraguay. But that was quickly rejected because it was considered part of that culture to consider oneself happy no matter what the circumstances. It is all bull****.

#46 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-11-17 12:54 PM | Reply

"Maybe using criteria set out by white people."

That's the kind of people that live in Scandinavia, homes.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-17 01:01 PM | Reply

The rich exploit the system so I suppose the poor should to.
As someone middle class who basically gets all my income taxed as payroll, where's my gimme?
I want some gimme too.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2022-11-17 10:09 AM | REPLY

You're jelly of the poor getting some money to subside on?? How Christ like. Seriously.

#48 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-11-17 01:08 PM | Reply

"As someone middle class who basically gets all my income taxed as payroll, where's my gimme?"

Isn't that a question for your employer?

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-11-17 01:26 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

No...I want to live off the work of other people like so many others do in America.

That's really becoming the American way.

#50 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2022-11-17 09:09 PM | Reply

"The one in Sweden is happier healthier and safer."

Then the evidence, as provided by you, would suggest that a 330% increase in taxes for a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay in the US would result in increasded happiness for that individual?

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:14 PM | Reply

"Equating survival with buying a fifth vacation mansion is not a good equivalence."

I guess I missed the part in the article where it stated that, without the donation, these individuals would have died.

And if they were that bad off, it would have been better to just give them Maslow level-one stuff like food and shelter.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:16 PM | Reply

#42

Your statement suggests that US citizens would achieve a happier outcome in Sweden because Swedish CEOs make less money.

Not sure about you, but a decrease in someone else's remuneration isn't going to have any effect on my happiness. And if it did, it would be because I was a mean-spirited -------.

I feel like Trump (and you, I guess) would be one of those people who would take pleasure in people making less money...

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:20 PM | Reply

"...But when United Health reaches into your pocketbook, which never happens in Sweden? Well that's perfectly fine."

United Health can't just "reach in."

The owner of the pocketbook must take the money out of the pocketbook and give it to them.

And what do you have against health insurance, anyway? If you don't like it, don't get it.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:24 PM | Reply

#45

Yet the governments in those countries take far more money from the taxpayers than the US does.

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:25 PM | Reply

#53 - It's not the pay difference - it's the culture that values everyone's quality of life over squeezing every drop of blood out of everyone so the CEO can be ungodly rich.

See Elon Musk and twitter.

#56 | Posted by YAV at 2022-11-17 10:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#46

That's probably true.

I don't know that anyone has ever assessed the Dani tribe of Papua New Guinea to see how happy they are.

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:26 PM | Reply

Even then, it would be "white" people likely establishing the criteria for what constituted being happy.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 10:27 PM | Reply

People who subsist on handouts generally have very low self esteem.

#59 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-11-17 10:32 PM | Reply

#59

I don't know. I lived on handouts for the first eighteen years of my life. I feel like my self-esteem was relatively high.

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-11-17 11:06 PM | Reply

"The myth that the poor in the United States are not so bad off can be found in a wide range of places. It basically reflects the idea that those in poverty have nothing to complain about " that given the conditions in less developed countries, things could be much worse.

It is certainly true that if we compare the U.S. to countries in sub-Saharan Africa, physical poverty in the U.S. is obviously less extreme. The United States does not have the widespread famine and severe stunting of children that is sometimes found in extremely poor countries.

However, most analysts would argue that the more relevant comparison would be the group of other high economy countries such as those found in the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia, and so on.

In comparing poverty in the U.S. to these OECD countries, we find that American poverty is both more prevalent and more extreme."

confrontingpoverty.org

Because iteration and constant reiteration conveys an alien thought to a recalcitrant mind.

Well, we are assuming the "mind" part.

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2022-11-18 12:03 AM | Reply

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