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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, November 30, 2022

Sweden and Finland have made progress toward winning Ankara's approval for them to join NATO but they have to go further, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said.

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..."There are still some issues, they made some progress and some steps were taken but at this moment it's not sufficient enough," Cavusoglu told Bloomberg on Tuesday before meeting his Swedish and Finnish counterparts on the sidelines of a NATO ministerial meeting in Bucharest....

The trilateral memorandum signed in Madrid laid out measures for Sweden and Finland needed to overcome Turkey's objections. Now, Turkey wants Sweden to put an end to propaganda activities by supporters of separatist Kurdish militants who have waged a decades-old war for autonomy that has claimed tens of thousands of lives and cost Turkey hundreds of billions of dollars.

"They need to implement some articles of this memorandum and we will have an open, candid and friendly meeting here in Bucharest with my colleagues," Cavusoglu said. "I hope to see some chances for progress and move forward and I need to show something to my people and parliament that they've delivered."

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is facing elections next year and is keen to consolidate nationalist support by pressuring the Nordic nations to crack down not only on supporters of the Kurdish PKK militant group -- already designated a terrorist organization by the European Union and the U.S. -- but also on affiliates such as the YPG militia in Syria.

Asked about what else his country can offer, Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billstrom told reporters ahead of the Bucharest meeting that "it boils down to a dialogue, we believe we're on a steady path toward reaching all the conditions laid out in the memorandum."

"I would like to underline though that there are things in this memorandum that are important to Sweden as well," Billstrom added. "For instance the data cooperation between crime-fighting authorities, this is important because we see people who committed crimes in Sweden go off to Turkey and we want to have them back in order to fulfill the process of carrying out justice."...


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 01:00 PM | Reply

Related? (an older article that may not be fully up to date...)

Who are 'terrorists' Turkey wants from Sweden and Finland? (July 2022)
www.bbc.com

...Nato has formally launched the process to bring Sweden and Finland into its military alliance. But a key condition for Nato member Turkey is the handover of more than 70 people described by its president as terrorists.

The leaders of the two Nordic nations say they are taking the issue seriously, but ultimately extradition is up to the courts not politicians. So who does Turkey want and could they ever be deported to Ankara?
Turkey's demands

Sweden and Finland applied to join the West's defensive alliance after Russia launched its war in Ukraine. Turkey was the only one of Nato's 30 member states to block their bids until the two Nordic states agreed to a set of demands - including handing over individuals with alleged terror links. ...



#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 01:02 PM | Reply

Didn't "Turkey" change the spelling to "Manchin" a while ago?

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-11-29 01:39 PM | Reply

Munchkin.

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-11-29 03:16 PM | Reply

Turkey officially changes name at UN to Turkiye
www.theguardian.com

...United Nations says request from Ankara has been accepted with immediate effect...

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 07:06 PM | Reply

Wow, this seems to work...

Turkey's new name is Trkiye

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 07:09 PM | Reply

@#6

OK, it worked in the preview, not not in the final posting.

The "u" in "Turkiye" is actually a u-umlaut.

That is, two dots over the "u".

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 07:10 PM | Reply

The "u" in "Turkiye" is actually a u-umlaut.

Might not have been the smartest choice for a name change if they expect it to be used.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-11-29 07:17 PM | Reply

@#8

In one respect, I might agree with you.

But in a prior life, I managed a software engineering team for a very American company. By that I mean, all the software was written for use by Americans, i.e., English-only.

Then the company acquired a company in Europe, and the two software teams had to work together, both teams reporting to me. Which they did quite excellently. No personality clashes, the EU team willing to work late to talk with the US team. And the US team willing to come in early to talk with the EU team. So far so good.

But when we had to merge the software, there was one little detail that everyone (everyone!, including me as the manager) overlooked.

The EU team routinely develops software that works with many languages ("internationalized" - there are software conventions, guidelines and maybe even standards for internationalizing software). While the US team routinely wrote software for one language, English.

Fortunately, the relationship between the acquiring company and the acquired company was most excellent. It was chalked up to experience.

Some members of the EU development team were invited to the NYC area for a week of business meetings to explain the development of software for an international audience. The company handled it well. It was a most fun week for the developers (NYC!!!). New friendships were made (this was 30 years ago, and I know some of those "across-the-pond" friendships are still quite active.)

So... sorry for the diversion, but the US fixation upon basic ASCII irks me at times.

So, where was I...

... Might not have been the smartest choice for a name change if they expect it to be used. ...

Oh yeah.

Only in the United States will you find archaic websites that cannot handle things like u-umlaut.

RCade, you know that I have the highest respect for what you create here, but really. u-umlaut?



#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 07:48 PM | Reply

Only in the United States will you find archaic websites that cannot handle things like u-umlaut.

And keyboards, which is probably a bigger issue.

#10 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-11-29 07:59 PM | Reply

@#10 ... keyboards ...

I've not met anyone outside the US who has had issues with u-umlaut on their keyboard.

Indeed, the EU, based upon my visits there, have zero (zero!) issues with keyboards and their character set.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 08:17 PM | Reply

Most operating systems now have input method editors so you can change what the keystrokes correspond to. For example, I can change my keyboard from English to Español or 中文 or Русский or Türk.

#12 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-11-29 08:25 PM | Reply

Be that as it may, I see the BBC, Al Jazeera, and Reuters are still using "Turkey". Might just be for NA consumption. The only place I found the 'new' spelling was on the UN website.

#13 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-11-29 08:31 PM | Reply

@#12 ... Most operating systems now have input method editors so you can change what the keystrokes correspond to. ...

Yes, but will websites accept those characters.

My point is that I typed in *uuml; in a comment (the leading ampersand was replaced with a star in my example) I got bupkis in my post.

The issue does not seem to be with the keyboard, but with what the site accepts.


(curious word, that bupkis...)


#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 09:07 PM | Reply

"Yes, but will websites accept those characters."

The vast majority will. This one is a bit "retro" by design.

Okay, maybe more than a bit. Perhaps a byte.

#15 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-11-29 09:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#15 ... This one is a bit "retro" by design. ...

Yup.

And, imho, by choice.

The security issues raises by accepting any ole UTF-8 character can be a mine field.

So, to me, the question for RCade becomes... does he want to spend a lot of money to make this most august site UTF-8 compatible? Or does he spend the few ad dollars he get to keep this site running.

My current vote is the latter.

Text is text. It can convey opinions.

The [ASCII-based] discussions here are most valuable.

So, my view would be that the overriding priority would be to keep these discussions going.

RCade may not agree with me on that, but it wouldn't be the first time we've disagreed. :)


#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 09:33 PM | Reply

#17 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-11-29 11:23 PM | Reply

@#17

Yeah, I know that one can slip an emoti or two by the character-altering background processes of this most august site.

I've done so in the past.

So, let me see you put an u-umlaut in your comment.

Then I would be impressed.

:)

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-11-29 11:56 PM | Reply

Um, I think you missed something earlier...

#19 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-11-30 12:34 AM | Reply

Maybe removing Turkey is the better plan.

#20 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2022-11-30 10:48 AM | Reply

Exactly Pete. It is a much larger gain for NATO to get
Finland and Sweden on board, than it is to have Turkey stay.

Turkey keeps trying to play this long game where they play
Russia and the U.S. against one another. It is foolish.
Even though Russia is much closer, they are clearly weak.
Not even a Super Power anymore.

#21 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-11-30 11:36 AM | Reply

"It is foolish."

It's logical for every country to do what they perceive to be in their best interests. Finland and Sweden are actively trying to engage Trkiye in dialogue and not completely dismissing their concerns out of hand, which would be foolish.

#22 | Posted by sentinel at 2022-11-30 11:57 AM | Reply

"Maybe removing Turkey is the better plan."

I had a similar thought but strategically for NATO I don't know if that would be wise and ERgodan, IMHO,is using that fact to his advantage to suppreaa groups rhat really aren;t terrprists but who do oppose him. I'm not even sure about that but from what I have read about Ergodan and Turkey and the Kurds I wouldn't think that demanding that Sweden end its autonomy of political thought should need to be sacrificed for admission to NATO because of the demands of a dictator of any stripe.If two mrmber nations both ruled by dictators object to Sweden and Finland being admitted to NATO. oh well. perhaps neither of those two nstions should ever have been admitted but one of them, Hungary should review rheir history in the 20rg century and remember how it works out to oppose Russia alone. Perhaps NATO should only be made up of free nations rhat respect human rights.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2022-11-30 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I had a similar thought but strategically for NATO I don't know if that would be wise

Turkey controls a pretty prime bit of waterway.

#24 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-11-30 12:39 PM | Reply

Neither country will ever be in NATO. Erdogan will find new excuses after the Finn's and Swedes kiss his ass.

Turkey is down with Russia,and stalling the new members is part of it.

Better for NATO to just disband and give up.

#25 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2022-11-30 01:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Neither country will ever be in NATO. Erdogan will find new excuses after the Finn's and Swedes kiss his ass.
Turkey is down with Russia,and stalling the new members is part of it.
Better for NATO to just disband and give up.
#25 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2022-11-30 01:51 PM

A+B=Z?

These nations make Erdogan unsettled on behalf of Putin because inevitably Turkey will face similar repercussions for it's authoritarian governance? Maybe Erdogan has already been poisoned like Putin allegedly has? There's still time for a Christmas miracle!

#26 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2022-11-30 02:19 PM | Reply

"Better for NATO to just disband and give up."

You can dream Putinlover but that ain't never going to happen. NATO will be rhere keeping Psych Putin at bay forever and you will still just be the ass kisser of a dictator.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2022-12-01 06:29 AM | Reply

Effeteposer is the Hershel Walker of
Russiabot posters on this site.

"not the brightest light on the Christmas Tree"

#28 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-12-01 06:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Better for NATO to just disband and give up.

So that's what Putin had in mind when he unleashed his orcs into Ukraine? Brilliant and well beyond five-dimensional Chinese Checkers. Hurrah!

#29 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2022-12-01 06:57 AM | Reply

I would switch Sweden and Finland in a heart beat for Turkey's membership. At least until they get rid of the fascist leader they have.

#30 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2022-12-01 12:23 PM | Reply

So let me get this straight. Turkey terrorizes Kurdish folks to death and runs them out of the country and when they organize in other countries the Turks have a problem with this? Quit killing them you -------- and you would eliminate that problem without having to have the Scandinavians do it for you. Erdogan is a pig of the highest order and needs some time in prison just for the BS they pulled with the protestors in DC lawfully protesting against his fascist regime. Then there is his abject murdering and torturing of his own citizens.

#31 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2022-12-01 12:27 PM | Reply

The YPG militia in Syria defeated ISIS for the West under the direction of US Special forces. If they had not done it US soldiers would have had to do it. They lost 10,000 brave women and soldiers in the fighting and even though that fat orange pig traitor ex POTUS sold them out to the nasty Turks they still have elements there and are guarding tens of thousands of ISIS scum. We should support them at all costs or forever forget asking our allies to do our fighting.

#32 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2022-12-01 12:30 PM | Reply

"I would switch Sweden and Finland in a heart beat for Turkey's membership. At least until they get rid of the fascist leader they have."

You might.

NATO would not. For very obvious reasons.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-01 03:32 PM | Reply

Finland and Sweden should just agree to whatever Turkey wants. Once they got the nod from Turkey, they could go back to doing whatever they wanted.

What is Turkey going to do? Quit NATO? Unlikely. Virtually every NATO country supported the SDF in the counter-ISIS fight...except for Turkey.

Once the deed is done, it's done. If Turkey wanted to throw a fit and threaten to quit NATO at a future date, that's a bridge to be crossed if needed.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-01 03:36 PM | Reply

"The YPG militia in Syria defeated ISIS for the West under the direction of US Special forces."

I think you're thinking of the SDF. Syrian Democratic Forces.

US/Coalition forces were supporting the SDF.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-01 03:38 PM | Reply

The Turks already know what's Done won't be undone.

They will never give the nod. They're milking this as long as they can so it looks like the Nordic countries will be admitted, but in the end, they will never approve it.

NATO will have to toss them.

IMHO.

#36 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2022-12-01 03:42 PM | Reply

"Neither country will ever be in NATO. Erdogan will find new excuses after the Finn's and Swedes kiss his ass."

You sweet, adorable schmoopaloo.

Both Finland and Sweden will join NATO. Erdogan is simply using his leverage to get more of what he wants from the west.

"Turkey is down with Russia,and stalling the new members is part of it."

Turkey is down with Russia?

You're given the choice between filet mignon and beet soup. Which do you choose?

You're saying the rational actor chooses the beet soup?

You're saying that Turkey wants to be poor and isolated from the rest of Europe in order to make friends with a poor and backwards nation?

That's pretty much like saying that South Korea would choose to ally with North Korea over all it's other non-poor, non-stupid allies worldwide.

How does that make sense to you?

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-01 03:47 PM | Reply

"NATO will have to toss them."

There is no option to expel a NATO nation.

www.newsweek.com

And they don't want to be expelled.

If expelled, they basically become nothing.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-01 03:49 PM | Reply

I saying the Turks want to break the hegemon.

They want impunity to go after the Kurdish militias.

They are independent of both NATO and Russia.

Siding with Russia is to weaken the US, European,axis.

It's opportunistic.

#39 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2022-12-01 04:57 PM | Reply

"I saying the Turks want to break the hegemon."

uh...the what?

"They want impunity to go after the Kurdish militias."

Maybe. They just need to decide what they want more. Domination over the Kurds or not being poor. They're not going to get both. A war against the Kurds would means isolation from western markets.

"It's opportunistic."

Maybe. I keep hearing that the US is going to war with China in the not-too-distant future. That makes no sense to me. China's success is explicitly tied to the success of it's western trade partners. Without them. China fails. The west can make due without China...the opposite is not true.

I just don't see how China sees the capture of Taiwan as being worth the decades of poverty that will follow. And that's if they somehow happened to win the war.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-12-02 01:24 AM | Reply

"I just don't see how China sees the capture of Taiwan as being worth the decades of poverty that will follow."

Well, it won't be the ruling class in poverty. it will just be everybody else.

And didn't China endure poverty for say a few thousand years?

It will be a return to normalcy for China. Make China Great Again.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-12-02 01:35 AM | Reply

The nice thing about turkey is that they don't like Putin and are keeping the Russian Navy from sending more ships to the black sea.

#42 | Posted by Tor at 2022-12-02 01:50 AM | Reply

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