... swore an oath of allegiance to Russia ...

I would not be surprised if he had done that years ago, while he worked for the US.

@#6 ... Is there any evidence he had links to Russia prior to his passport being canceled while he was transiting through it? ...

Why would there be if the job were doe correctly?

But to your point, yeah, I got nothing beyond a faint suspicion. Thanks for asking me to explain.

That is why I stated my comment as "I would not be surprised if..." instead of "he probably was..." or even "he was..."

@#10 ... Where's my little lefty nuggets who claimed this man was an American hero? ...

Yeah... I always used to argue against that appellation of Mr Snowden.

I did not, and still do not, think he was a hero in any shape manner or form.

For the same reason I stated back in the day...

Heroes do not run away to the enemy.

If Mr Snowden were a real hero, he would have stood up and accepted the consequences of what he did.

But he ran and hid....

@#12 ... So you are ok with what he revealed about us? ...

I did not say that.

And in answer to your question, a simple "no." I am not okay with what he revealed. But that topic is probably a whole 'nuther thread.

What I am not OK with is someone being called an American hero when that person runs and hides (with the enemy!!!).

To me that cheapens all the real American Heroes in our midst.

@#13 ... I am not okay with what he revealed. ...

Clarification:

This is difficult to word correctly. Lemme try again...

The abuses of our government he exposed were good to get out in the open. And I do not denigrate him for doing that.

The problem I have with calling him a hero is not due to what he revealed, but that he ran and hid with an enemy.

After making those revelations, he should have stood up and accepted the consequences for his actions.

@#18 ... It seems like you're giving the Russians too much credit here. ...

Maybe, maybe not.

As I said, i don't know.

@#18,#19 ... Snowden has argued that he would not be able to get a fair trial ...

So, he seems to have known that even before his revelation.

... if he genuinely believes that his actions were justified then it was logical for him to seek asylum in another country. ...

Oh, I have no issue with him running to the enemy for asylum. If that is his choice, so be it.

... Would you apply this same standard to an asylum seeker coming to the U.S. who was being persecuted for exposing serious crimes or injustice within their own country? ...

Is the United States the enemy of that Country?

But, more specific to the topic of my comments, the question should be whether or not the people of that home country would want that person to be a hero in the home country. That is not for me to decide.

... Regardless of whether you think he's right or wrong, if he genuinely believes that his actions were justified ...

I am not talking about right or wrong.

I've been quite specific. Running and hiding.

I do not think a person is a hero who runs and hides with the enemy.

It is really a simple concept.

@#20 ... He ran because he knew he would never see the light of day if Americans got their hands on him ...

That's a pretty poor view of our Justice system, doncha think?

Who knows? Paranoia run wild?

Regardless, I still say (as I have said back in the day), he ran and hid with the enemy. I do not view him as a hero.

@#23 ... I see him as an American folk hero. Wanting to do the right thing, for the right reasons. ...

Still trying to get that "hero" appellation on him, eh?

He ran and hid.

That is not what heros do.

... So you considered him a hero when he flew to Hong Kong? ...

Was Hong Kong his ultimate destination? That he wound up in Russia negates your comment. Hong Kong looked like a stopover. Why did he choose that route?

... U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal. ...

I do not deny that. I have never denied that. Indeed, I have said it was good that he exposed that.

So what's yer point?

@#27 ... So no. This ain't a bus seat, kid. ...

I didn't say it was.

... Did George Washington ever face the consequences for what he did to the British? ...

Yes, he did. It is called the Revolutionary War.

George Washington did not run away from his beliefs to an enemy, he stood his ground.

... ---- how stupid your brainwashed way of thinking is. ...

Huh?

You need to be more specific.

@#28 ... But I like the idea that the only reason George Floyd is a hero is because Nazis killed him. He didn't "do" anything other than be a Jew.

Oops did I say George Floyd? I meant Anne Frank. ...

Are you really trying to equate Mr Snowden with Anne Frank? If so, you've god a long row to hoe.

@#31 ... But it seems that you have decided that person should not be considered a hero, regardless of what the circumstances are, ...

Where did I say that?

Please provide a quote.

I have always stated that a hero does not run and hide.

Please provide evidence to the contrary.

... But it seems that you have decided that person should not be considered a hero, regardless of what the circumstances are, if they seek asylum with an "enemy" ...

No, that Mr Snowden hid in Russia was more of the cherry on top of the sundae, but not the sundae itself.

In other words. my beef with Mr Snowden being deemed a "hero" was that he ran and hid. That is a simple statement that so many, oh so many, people seem to be unable or intentionally reluctance to understand.

Let me say it again, maybe your alias will understand it this thime...

Mr Snowden is not a hero, in my eyes, because he ran and hid.

The place to which he ran and hid is incidental to that comment.

Yeah I mentioned that Russia is an enemy. Notice "is" present tense.

Deal with it.

@#33 ... He was obviously playing it by ear, at that point ...

I'm not convinced.

... there's no evidence that Russia was intended as his ultimate destination ...

So you agree.

Going back to my original assertion...

Mr Snowden is not a hero.

He chose to run and hide.

He is not a hero.

Sooo... what else ya got...

@#35 ... Okay, so you're moving the goal posts here....So now you're saying a person should not be considered a hero regardless of where they run and hide. ...

Oh please, I am not moving anything. Your comments are trying to move the goalposts in a failed attempt to justify the comments.

I have always said that Mr Snowden is not a hero, in my eyes, because he ran and hid.

Regardless of where he ran to.

Do try harder to support your position.

... A person's actions cannot ever be considered a heroic unless they're willing to completely sacrifice their life or livelihood afterwards. That is what you're implying. ..

No, I disagree.

Let me state it once more, because for some reason your alias seems to have difficulty understanding a simple statement... (intentional?)

I do not consider Mr Snowden to be a hero because he ran and hid.

See, simple. (at least it is for me)

So, now, instead of your alias trying to kick up more sand, why not just address that statement?

Let me say it once more... I do not consider Mr Snowden to be a hero because he ran and hid.

Yer up..

@#37 ... you're saying "do not consider anyone to be a hero if they run and hide" ...

Yup. I've stated that repeatedly.

Please educate me. If your argument is valid, I will change my opinion.

But, so far, I've not seen anything to that purpose.

@#39 . ... Take, for example, the act of exposing or interceding in acts of police brutality. Many would consider that a heroic act...

I would say that is a brave act. And I have commented on the cell phone videos on this most august site to that end.

But not a heroic act. Or is your comment implying that the person's life is in danger via the police for filming that video? If so, then we've got a whole 'nuther issue to discuss. Please start a new thread for that.

However, your comment does raise a quite interesting aspect to this conversation. The aspect of a propensity for retaliation by the local law enforcement for documenting, let's just say, digressions of local law enforcement.

But, at this point, I am not convinced whether the issue your comment raises is more a deflection, or an actual talking point.

If it is the latter, I would welcome that thread.