"Does America have a need for immigrants right now?
There have been periods where large influxs were desired.
Why do we need immigrants right now?"

In my part of the world, they are needed for working on farms, and meat processing plants. They are also needed for driving a truck.

Construction, etc....we have needs everywhere.

-Who do I blame?

Everyone is to blame.

Trying to find someone specific to blame is not trying to solve the problem. It's an attempt to perpetuate the problem by being too ignorant to understand it.

-For example, you mentioned the meat packing plants which are prevalent in southeast and southwest Kansas. If I remember correctly, those are Republican stron holds, correct? And the local sheriffs are aware of what's going on, right?

What do you want the local republican sheriff to do about illegal immigration?

What do you want the local republican chamber to do about illegal immigration?

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So, you don't know?

It sort of matters if you expect them to do something about it.

What is a local sheriff empowered to do with regards to enforcing illegal immigration?

I'm friends with a sheriff in a nearby county. I can call him and ask. But I suspect his answer is that he isn't expected to do much about it.

He answers to the taxpaying citizens of his county who pay his salary. Not a bunch of anonymous bloggers. Just sayin.....

And......the chamber reference. That cracks me up.

What do you think a chamber of commerce is legally authorized to do about illegal immigration?

Do you even know what a chamber of commerce even is?

"it looks really silly to pretend that these Republican sheriffs aren't aware of what these Republican owners are doing."

So you think local people own packing plants?

if you're trying to not look silly....maybe take this pro tip.....it looks really silly to pretend the chamber of commerce has any authority to do anything about illegal immigration.

-It's also silly to pretend the offer of jobs isn't an incentive

who is pretending the offer of jobs isn't an incentive?

This exchange is just proof of my original point.

Everybody is to blame and anybody who is just looking to point fingers isn't interested in anything except a political victory. This issue serves one purpose....political fodder.

Which is fine except that it doesn't work. There are no political victories to be had with regards to illegal immigration....certainly not on a local level.

The chamber serves the large employers.....not the other way around. The chamber does not enforce rules or laws.

The chamber's only function is to attract employers to their community. Everywhere there is a packing plant, you'll find a chamber of commerce who offered up incentives and worked hard to attract that employer to locate there.

So, if your point is that republicans are fine with the current system.......you're not wrong. But you can elect all the democrats you want to serve as county sheriff or sit on the local chamber board.....they can't do jack ---- about the current system.

"I think they run them.
And are you telling me the local people aren't the folks who interview and hire?"

I am good friends with a retired CEO of a large meat processing business with their offices in Wichita.

I asked him how many illegals he believed he had in his employ......he said "Probably a third". That was Nationwide.

It's not a secret. It's not a local conspiracy.

"They are absolutely links in the chain. The business owners, who need the workers, and who also happened to fund the sheriffs' campaigns, are absolutely part of the chain."

keep pointing.....it's cute.

-They are absolutely links in the chain.

That's just an admission you have no clue what you want them to do.

You just want to point fingers at a problem you don't understand.

-You're just upset because of the unavoidable common denominator.

I'm not upset about any of it. Nor am in denial of what's going on.

I actually live in this situation. I grew up in it. I am extremely active in my community, including the chamber.

The political side of it is irrelevant to me, despite how gigantic it is to you.

It's that the local govt and local chamber can't do anything about it. It's too massive of an institutional problem.

If you think it's such a solvable problem, then why not expect ICE to show up and round up all these lawbreakers?

Have the Justice department start chasing local sheriffs. oh, and don't forget the law breaking chambers. Get them as well.

and then move onto the employers.

it's not like it's a secret where they work and who gave them jobs.

Have you wondered why this continues and continues and continues?

I could leave my office right now and drive you to THOUSANDS of illegals working right now.

If I know where they are, then Joe Biden knows where they are. Last I checked, ICE reports to him.

But you'd rather cry about the local sheriff and some heating and air contractor with 8 employees who sits on the chamber of commerce.

Right....you're really really really really interested in solving the problem.

LOL

This is just one of those issues where the electorate is just dumb dumb dumb and the powers that be take advantge of it.

We know we need immigrants at the supply we've been getting them. It's been that way for a long long time.

Politicians don't get anywhere being candidly truthful about this issue but they know the reality. We need them. Period. Legal or otherwise.

I've always believed we deliberately make the process difficult to allow for them to be legal because your average -------- voter can't handle the truth.

"Companies hiring them is a good starting point
However before doing that can you agree we need to stop the influx of more illegal immigrants?"

The food industry, including large farms, cattle feedyards, poultry, swine, etc all the way to the packing houses.....they all serve an extremely important purpose.

They literally put food on your plate. That process is not to be interrupted any more than absolutely necessary.

If hiring illegals is necessary to keep the process flowing, so be it. It's a trade off everyone with any knowledge of this issue is willing to accept. I don't give a ---- what letter is after their name.

It's a national security issue. This is my point. The average -------- can't handle the truth.

that's the truth......it's a national security issue.

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Not sure where to start with that one.

1. paying more? you think enriching Cargill, ADM, Kroger, etc. is a solution?
2. Incentivize Americans to work? So, they ARE lazy? I thought they simply didn't exist. They already have jobs. There are simply no American made workers for this work....we need them imported.
3. subsidize their wages? Who's wages? How much do you want a packing plant worker, who isn't Hispanic, to make? You see the issue there? You want to pay a white worker more than a brown worker. Or at least you're suggesting it's worth more.

Question for everyone.....I keep seeing the word "criminals" and "crisis" over and over and crimes being committed

What is the big crime of an undocumented worker coming into this country and taking a job? They aren't leeching off anyone. They are working for their wages with limited eligibility of benefits that normally come with those jobs but since they are an illegal...they dare not file for such benefits. just do the work for the money and do whatever they want it it.

We're assuming the conditions and wages are up and up. No taking advantage of the workers and no other crimes are being committed. Sex traffic, drugs, etc...a legitimate job with legitimate wages working alongside legal folks being paid and treated similar.

Who really gives a ----?

Do you all realize that by having them here doing the work they do, we are in many ways averting a crisis?

"Now it's whole families and a lot of children being exploited..."

Are you saying we are exploiting them?

The relatively few that ended up for a long weekend in Marthas Vineyard aside.......

-Increasing wages to the point where they attract Americans to fill them.

You can't achieve that. We stopped living in a world where we can create a job for just an "American" about 50 years ago.

You increase the wages, you also increase the incentive for illegals to come. Illegals who will work their butts off for less money.

There is no getting around it. You're suggesting we increase the incentive for EVERYONE to want that job.

Your suggestion mathematically can't be achieved.

It's the same thing as suggesting that you can just add points to everyone's test score so that nobody performs below average.

And what's the point anyway? The goal is for a white guy to make more money that he's worth for a job that an employer can fill with someone else?

It's not going to happen.

I'll tell you all what's going to happen.....ready??????

This is what's going to happen.......The exact same thing that's been happening. The same employers are going to employ the same people documented or not and your government, Federal, State, and local (and even the local republican sheriff and republican chamber of commerce LOL) will look the other way.

the only thing our govt will do is hopefully do a better job of cracking down on horrendous working conditions in plants who mostly employ people who won't turn them in.

The most common example I see every day of employers using immigrant labor is the Guest worker program...the H-2A program for ag workers.

Mostly, these workers come from South Africa. They get a US drivers license and have a visa that last about 9 months. The employer has to comply with the Federal regulations and rules that govern the program and I support them with all the insurance they need to comply. They have to pay them a pretty decent wage and provide housing. Housing that's inspected twice a year so it can't just be a complete dump.

When you add up the total cost per hour for these jobs.....these farmers would gladly hire a local person and be in a position to offer them a very good wage. I'm talking $30+ an hour to operate machinery and drive a truck. Feed and tend cattle as well. Not highly skilled, not that dangerous either. And I'm talking rural Kansas. $60K to $70K is not too bad.

And yet they are doing this anyway. Wonder why? Those people don't exist. We need these workers from somewhere else. The supply is simply too low.

One of the problems I see with posters on this board who fall into this trap of arguing about illegal immigration is that they view all immigrant labor as "cheap labor.

I see my clients paying high wages for ANY labor that is quality. There is a marketplace for quality labor. illegal or otherwise. You all accept employers are not being pursued for hiring them and they need the labor so badly, they'll pay.

IOW, there are multiple employers competing for the illegal worker. Not because they are cheap but because they are good. And they aren't good because they are illegal. They are good because they are good. Not all illegals are quality labor. Some are probably just as lazy as what we grow here at home.

"If you were in power and could change 3 things what would they be going forward in priority order.
Forget the past...going forward."

1. Acknowledge the facts and reality with regards to how we need these folks especially for the work they perform. Also admit what was pointed out upthread that it's overstayed visas, not illegal crossings, and recognize the facts with regards to criminal behavior, etc.....and reduce people's fears about immigrants. It's mostly all hyped up fear....politics 101.

2. Simplify the process to admit folks at the border. Enable these people to be legal easier and let them get jobs, apply for a drivers license, enroll in employee benefit programs, file a tax return, live out in the open.

3. Laugh at people who continue to freak out over illegal immigration.

-Once again, Eb, I agree with everything you posted. Although be aware: #3 is impossible until #1 and #2 are achieved.

I really just threw in #3 because Bill asked for 3.

"The point is, illegal immigrants are getting underpaid for their labor.
The point is, when you subsidize wages poor Americans would gladly take those jobs. (Poor Americans are Black, Brown and White.)"

Not sure what you mean. If we make the illegal a legal worker....do you think that increases their wages? Not sure that will happen. Why would it happen? Why would an employer pay more for a legal when there is apparently zero consequence for employing the illegal?

Perhaps the wage the illegal makes is insignificant from their legal co-workers performing the same job.

And again...wages for what job? You want to select a group of people, decide they are entitled to earn more and then subsidize their wage regardless of where they work?

And many poor Americans already work in a job. Now what happens to that job? Maybe you just subsidize the job the poor person currently works at rather than encourage them to move to another job to get a subsidized wage.

Have you remotely thought this through? Even if there was a chance in hell politically of this happening......it simply wouldn't work.

The economics of it wouldn't permit it.

I know you think it's all just rich people who stand in the way of your well thought out utopia......but actual economics matter. Especially in this case.

You're trying to pick winners and losers. Certain specific people and certain specific jobs.....right? What if a job is occupied by a non minority or a non poor person. Are they entitled to a higher wage just like the brown person or the poor person?

Do you think the actual employer might want to weigh on what the job should pay. They are the people who sign the checks and make the decision to hire and fire, set their prices, etc...basically determine the value of a job. Their biggest challenge is finding good people, paying them enough to come to work, and figuring out how to keep them.

You seem to believe that you can throw money at a worthless lazy worker and they'll stop being worthless and lazy.

It

does

not

work

that

way

I

don't

think

you

understand

that