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Thursday, January 12, 2023

Scientists have observed Stars surviving black holes which they are describing with terms the scientists don't usually use.




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That's not time travel. That's Groundhog Day.

#1 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-12 10:32 PM | Reply

An object moving fast enough to go back in time for a second but only a second would possibly be frozen in that last second for eternity.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-12 10:58 PM | Reply

We are all time travelers.

We can peer billions of years backwards in time just by looking up and we can go forwards in time (relatively speaking) depending on our speed or proximity to mass. The higher your elevation from a gravity well the faster your time passes relative to anyone on the surface.

Because time is relative.

#3 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-01-14 01:15 PM | Reply

These articles are pointless because scientists are coming around to what I have been saying my entire life, and a minority of scientists have been saying since before I was born:

"Time" doesn't exist as anything but an imaginary structure. There is only the state of matter as it is now. As humans we observe and store what states we have observed, and use that to predict states that will occur. We have already proven that the "time dilation" that occurs when you move closer to or further from gravity is nothing but gravity's effect on the devices themselves. How do we know this? Because digital and analog clocks do not "dilate" at the same rate. WE do have a good understanding of how differently these devices behave at different distances and accelerations and satellites need EXTREMELY MINOR (we're talking like .01 seconds in ten years of time) adjustments so everything stays on the same page. When we look up into the night sky we are not "seeing the past" we're seeing the state that matter is at where we observe it from. We also already know for a stone cold fact that there really are actions that do not resolve until they are observed, that's no longer just a wild theory we have literally proven it.

Again: science no longer believes in "time" as a different dimensional coordinate you can move along. This headline is extra stupid because the scientists in question do not mention time travel in any way shape or form nor have they used terms they don't usually use. They have observed stars surviving longer than expected near a black hole. That does not mean "time travel" it means stars can have properties we do not yet fully understand. If you ask any scientist today that old creationist chestnut "What existed before the big bang?" the answer now given is "Your question is irrelevant."

While I'm at it, we've also discarded the notion of the Big Bang, as there's too much against it.

#4 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 04:40 PM | Reply

"we've also discarded the notion of the Big Bang, as there's too much against it."

We know the universe is expanding.

#5 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-14 06:32 PM | Reply

We know the universe is expanding.

#5 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2023-01-14 06:32 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

We don't. Too many galaxies that should be "Young" are not. We have no idea what the "universe" is doing.

#6 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 07:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Stars keep spreading.

#7 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-14 07:42 PM | Reply

While I'm at it, we've also discarded the notion of the Big Bang, as there's too much against it.


Who is this "we"? You and your fellow DND geeks?

#8 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-14 08:07 PM | Reply

Oh, and Victor? OneLessNut and AFatPoofter tell me you owe them a gallon of crap-@ss vodka.

#9 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-14 08:08 PM | Reply

The Stars keep spreading.

#7 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2023-01-14 07:42 PM | REPLY | FLAG

You're not getting this. We thought that before, we don't now. Things are in places they would not be if the universe were "spreading." The best we can say right now is that the universe is... churning.

#10 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 10:05 PM | Reply

"digital and analog clocks do not "dilate" at the same rate."

News to me.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-14 10:13 PM | Reply

Not only are things not where they "would" be, everywhere we look temperature properties are the same, there's no standout high temperature "artifacts" to be found, and we are not getting the expected redshifts in too many places (that's what I meant when I said the "age" of other galaxies. Scientists no longer believe in any singularity origin, and most don;t even buy into the Universe having ever been one centralized.. anything.

Mind you it still COULD be true, as there still could be something ELSE we don't understand going on... gravitic wells that tosses galaxies to places they don't belong, wormholes, The Q playing pool blah blah blah... but as it stands right now the classic Big Bang Theory and the inevitable heat death of the universe have both been discarded because we are no longer certain it is a closed system without further energy input.

#12 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 10:26 PM | Reply

Who is this "we"?

Valid question.

#13 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-01-14 10:39 PM | Reply

News to me.

#11 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-01-14 10:13 PM | REPLY | FLAG

It's not to the people who maintain GPS. All clocks must be corrected but there is approximately a 5% variance in expectations of those corrections vs the range that actually occurs. It doesn't hugely _matter_ because we correct them to local atomic clock time "on the fly" but it's still observable in the logs that you cannot automate the corrections with 100% success any other way than "overwrite this value with the one sent from Earth." GPS as a system is both a useful product _and_ an ongoing experiment in how our instrumentation is affected by forces we do not yet understand.

We repeated the caesium clock experiments in 2005 (or 2015?) and expected results of 39.9 nanoseconds but only got 39.0. This is enough to demonstrate that we still do not have a full understanding of the effects gravity and velocity have on our instruments. Frankly even the 1971 tests didn't work out more than vaguely as we expected anyway.

And, again, nobody has ever seriously suggested that objects age differently due to what is popularly called "time dilation" all that has ever been suggested is that our instruments for measuring what we call "time" are fallible. The Twin Paradox is like Schrodinger's Cat: it's not something anyone expects to literally happen, it is a circumstance around which to build mathematical and theoretical models of physics.

#14 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 10:48 PM | Reply

At the end of the day, nothing I say matters. You can either try to keep up with science or you can rely on ---- you heard back when you were in college and believe that anyone who says anything against that is an idiot. Science will march on whether you dig your heels in and call everyone stupid.

I hope you don't look down on Republicans for denying vaccine science, because right now you're doing the same thing with cosmology and "time."

#15 | Posted by VictorZiblis at 2023-01-14 10:56 PM | Reply


All models are wrong.
Some models are useful.
--George E. P. Box

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-14 11:04 PM | Reply

"and expected results of 39.9 nanoseconds but only got 39.0."

On the 1971 Hafele-Keating experiment "the flying clocks lost 59+/-10 nanoseconds during the eastward trip and gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip, where the errors are the corresponding standard deviations."

Your 2% error is well inside the 1971 error bars.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-14 11:11 PM | Reply

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I don't understand.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-14 11:12 PM | Reply

snoofy I suspect this is a case of him not even being wrong.

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-15 02:14 AM | Reply

I took classes from the dean of astronomy at Harvard. "Victor" is a charlatan.

#20 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-15 01:40 PM | Reply

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