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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, January 20, 2023

An ally of President Vladimir Putin warned NATO on Thursday that a defeat of Russia in Ukraine could trigger a nuclear war, while the head of the Russian Orthodox Church said the world would end if the West tried to destroy Russia.

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They need to test one of their nukes to see if they still work.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-20 08:51 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

If they did you'd ---- yourself. Even A nuclear test in the current atmosphere would be terrifying.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-20 10:02 AM | Reply

Even A nuclear test in the current atmosphere would be terrifying.

#2 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

I've lived through those things.

I see your loyalty to Russia includes forgiving nuclear threats.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-20 11:57 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

... An ally of President Vladimir Putin warned NATO on Thursday that a defeat of Russia in Ukraine could trigger a nuclear war ...

Pres Putin has been trying to draw the West into a larger war ever since his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine started going badly for him.

Currently, Pres Putin seems to be prepping Belarus to help him with his unprovoked invasion. If (when?) Belarus complies, will Ukraine be forced to defend its sovereignty by attacking Belarus?

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-20 12:04 PM | Reply

Nuclear weapons need upkeep and maintenance. If the rest of the russian army in any indicator, then they probably have a bunch of semi-functioning dirty bombs at best. Also, russia is downwind of ukraine. I am not saying that they aren't stupid enough to use them, but it is just as likely to humiliate them and poison them as to actually work as intended.

#5 | Posted by bus_driver at 2023-01-20 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Before Putin has the time to start a nuvlear war we should be reducing his ability to do so. Admiral Mike Mullins said we should eliminate the Russian Navy including nuclear subs. Any threat of nuclear war from Russia should be answered be attacks on their Let them know that a threat will be answered missile launch systems includiny ships. Any nation threatening nuclear war must be considered to already be at war against us and anhilated ASAP. We aren't threatening them and shoild not be expected to tolerate threats against us. We should always seek peaceful ways to resolve problems but ehen they start thewatening us we should destroy them.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-20 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's like a bully who's getting beaten up by a smaller kid screaming at everyone else that they're next.

#7 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-20 12:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

More wild talk from Danni. Let me clue you in. The people of Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea have voted to become part of Russia. For all intents and purposes these territories ARE Russia. This is why we are on a very dangerous path. Biden is too old for the job. I don't care anything for the Ukraine, especially when my life is at stake comrades. Just one Russian hydrogen bomb can knock you off your feet 90 miles away. As far as I'm concerned. Admiral Mullins should be fired if the comments posted by Danni are true.

#8 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-20 12:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

Loud talk and cheap stunts are all Russia is good for anymore. I'll wager they bought all those Iranian drones on credit while convincing the Persians they would get paid in real money. The West had an inkling that Russia was broken when Michael Flynn went on RT...

#9 | Posted by catdog at 2023-01-20 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Danni, destroying Russian based on the empty threats of a dying despot, with the collateral damage to many/most cities in Europe and North America, is not a very christian position. Hopefully if he did give the order, his military would reject it and put him down like a mad dog.

If they launch, we will launch, which will result in Russia and all things Russian disappearing from the earth. If Russia's nukes have been better maintained than their conventional forces, most major American / European cities and military installations will also be destroyed. That is the essence of MADness and nothing has really changed except that all of nukes that have ever been built are getting older.

Wheepy, a test is terrifying? I guess you never had to run to the hallway and "duck and cover" as a kid. Recommend that you move near a major military base, that way it will all be over in a flash.

I'm surprised that wolfpuppy hasn't shown up to beat his chest and threaten doom for us all with their super radioactive tsunami bomb. Like that would matter, any attack will result in mass launches, its a use it or lose it situation.

What worries me is that we have apparently abandoned the policy of not striking first. Russia's military should be very concerned about Putin blowing his mouth. If it gets to the point that our military believes his military is going to launch, we may strike first, seeking the advantage of surprise.

#10 | Posted by Killjoy at 2023-01-20 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#8 ... For all intents and purposes these territories ARE Russia. ...

Not really.

An unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country for the purpose of annexing and eliminating the country does not "for all intents and purposes" give the invading country the right to the occupied land.


... This is why we are on a very dangerous path. ...

Pres Putin is on the dangerous path when he started his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country for the purpose of annexing and eliminating it.

Your comments on this topic seem to be more directed towards deflection away from Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion.





#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-20 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

More wild talk from Danni. Let me clue you in. The people of Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea have voted to become part of Russia. For all intents and purposes these territories ARE Russia. This is why we are on a very dangerous path. Biden is too old for the job. I don't care anything for the Ukraine, especially when my life is at stake comrades. Just one Russian hydrogen bomb can knock you off your feet 90 miles away. As far as I'm concerned. Admiral Mullins should be fired if the comments posted by Danni are true.

#8 | Posted by wolfdog

Nothing makes you look dumber than citing a vote taken at gunpoint and counted by a person who desires a certain outcome.

#12 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-20 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Putin is no different than a rapist threatening to shoot anyone who interferes with the assault underway.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-20 01:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

The Russian Military can't overthrow Putin soon enough.

#14 | Posted by moder8 at 2023-01-20 02:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Pooh-ty's nukies? Oh, I'm so scared!

Another day, another empty Russian threat.

#15 | Posted by censored at 2023-01-20 02:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The people of Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea have voted to become part of Russia.

At the point of guns held by Russian soldiers going door to door and checking how they voted.

No way a legitimate election result. You're delusional, comrade.

#16 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2023-01-20 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"the head of the Russian Orthodox Church said the world would end if the West tried to destroy Russia."

The world would also end if Russia attempts to destroy the West. It's called MAD.

#17 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2023-01-20 03:46 PM | Reply

No one is trying to destroy Russia but at the same time, we can't ignore the nuke threats. We are not threatening Russia with sword rattling. However, Russia is doing that.

Putin would love to have everyone just back up and let him invade the Ukraine with no actions, it's just what he expected. What he expected and the results of that invasion aren't setting so well with him. It's removing that veneer of strongman to his own country men. It was a projected image and nothing but a PR stunt.

When NATO starts showing it means business about defending, suddenly it puts new and fresh meaning to the idea it will do what it says if there was ever any doubt in Putin's mind.

What he has left is bullying and hoping it works. If he is foolish enough to start a nuclear war that no one will win, we all go down the drain with him. What you can't do is allow a bully to have his way, that just sets up the next action when he thinks things will continue to go his way. So if he starts a nuclear war, it will be answered.

#18 | Posted by BBQ at 2023-01-20 04:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So do another election, under UN supervision, then abide by the result.

Do Taiwan next. And re-do Malvinas, their election was taken by the British at gunpoint.

#19 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-20 04:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#19 ... So do another election ...

Elections are not the way to steal territory from a sovereign country.

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-20 04:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Who is the sovereign in Ukraine? The East is voting with bullets and artillery to be free from the baleful embrace of the Nazis.

Eight years of fighting. The Russians are new to the struggle. They've only been active for less than one.

Freedom means self determination,does the Donbass merit that or only the ethnic bigots in Kiev? Partition is the right answer. Elections are better than War. But this will be settled by war.

Neither side is clearly winning at this point.

#21 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-20 05:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#21 ... Who is the sovereign in Ukraine? ...

Ukraine is a sovereign country.

"sovereign" the adjective, not "sovereign" the noun.

Do try to keep up.

... The East is voting with bullets and artillery to be free ...

Instigated by Russian meddling.


... But this will be settled by war. ...

It is up to Ukraine to settle their internal conflicts, not Pres Putin via an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine for the purpose of annexing an eliminating Ukraine.

Eastern Ukraine, that your comments seem to be so concerned about, is only part of what Pres Putin wants in Ukraine. He has said that all of Ukraine should belong to Russia and the country of Ukraine should not exist.


As I said, do try to keep up...


#22 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-20 06:03 PM | Reply

@#21 ... Neither side is clearly winning at this point. ...

It is a shame that Ukraine has to defend itself at all against Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-20 06:05 PM | Reply

It's sad that Putin and his Entourage never feel the need to serve on the front lines in Ukraine. For Russians this is a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.

#24 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-20 06:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pathetic.

#25 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2023-01-20 06:29 PM | Reply

Who is the sovereign in Ukraine? The East is voting with bullets and artillery to be free from the baleful embrace of the Nazis.

#21 | Posted by Effeteposer

The imaginary nazis who follow a jewish leader? Those nazis?

#26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-20 07:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"More wild talk from Danni. Let me clue you in. The people of Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea have voted to become part of Russia."

oMLY A rUSSIAN TROLL THINKS IT IS "VOTING" WITH a Russian rifke aimed at the "voter."

#27 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 08:04 AM | Reply

"Neither side is clearly winning at this point."

Tell yhat to the 100,000 Russian cannon fodder lost in the last 3 months.

#28 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 08:06 AM | Reply

I'm thinking more about the 150,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed. From a smaller population base. The West is sending arms and money,not people.

Time is not on the Ukraine's side.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 09:04 AM | Reply

"The people of Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea have voted to become part of Russia."

Really though?

I mean, who votes to be part of an impoverished, authoritarian dictatorship.

You'll need to walk me through the decision calculus on this one.

It's like claiming that the victim of a mugger actually wanted the mugger to have their money.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:23 AM | Reply

"Admiral Mullins should be fired if the comments posted by Danni are true."

Kinda hard to fire a dude who has been retired for 12 years.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If it gets to the point that our military believes his military is going to launch, we may strike first, seeking the advantage of surprise."

Here's the thing.

Nuclear weapons resulted from an accuracy problem during WWII. IT took hundreds of bombers to achieve a set level of damage on a given target. Not because one bomb wouldn't do the trick, but because one bomb wasn't going to hit the target when dropped from 30k'. This meant using lots of bombers and risking the lives of lots of aviators. Nukes solved that problem. With a nuke, you didn't need to hit the target. You just had to get kinda close.

Nowadays, with precision weapons, a pilot can send an inert guided bomb through a window or wall and kill a single individual, causing minimal damage to the rest of the building.

If the US did go to war with Russia, there would be little point in using nukes. Western technology has advanced to the point where we could achieve pretty much every military objective using conventional weapons. In fact, having nuclear tipped ICBMs may actually be a disadvantage for the US. If the US had conventionally tipped ICBMs, then we could have a precision round on target anywhere in the world in 30 minutes. It's not practical now because any ICBM launch would be assumed as part of a nuclear strike by those countries able to detect them.

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Anyway, the rationale in the article makes no sense. Russia loses in Ukraine and nuclear war starts why? Who is the target of this nuclear strike? Ukraine? The US? Europe?

And what would be the objective of such a strike? Possibly outside of striking Ukraine, a nuclear attack by Russia on the US or western Europe will result in the extinction of Russia.

So what Dmitry Medvedev is basically saying is that Russia may demand mass suicide of Russians if Russia can't win in Ukraine. I don't know that Russians share this sentiment.

What I do think is that the Russians need to be put back in their place. Sell Matryoshka dolls, make Vodka...do something marginally useful with territory nobody else wants.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The East is voting with bullets and artillery to be free from the baleful embrace of the Nazis."

Yeah. Because they want to be Russians.

They should try and be North Koreans instead.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:43 AM | Reply

"Freedom means self determination, does the Donbass merit that or only the ethnic bigots in Kiev?"

Freedom and Russia are not terms you can use in the same sentence.

Unless you're expressing the state of having freedom from freedom.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 09:44 AM | Reply

Is being persecuted for your ethnic identity freedom? They didn't want to be marginalized and treated as second class citizens in their own country.

That is the definition of self determination,your own personal anti Russia bigotry aside. They decided going it alone or as part of the Russian federation was more in their self interest.

#36 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 10:22 AM | Reply

"Is being persecuted for your ethnic identity freedom? They didn't want to be marginalized and treated as second class citizens in their own country."

That's fair. Do you have a link to something suggesting this ever happened?

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 10:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They decided going it alone or as part of the Russian federation was more in their self interest."

Got it.

Crimea wanted nothing to do with being part of Ukraine. That's a historical fact. On two (maybe three) occasions, the Crimean Autonomous Oblast held independence referendums seeking to gain independence from Ukraine.

That does not mean they wanted to be part of Russia. They weren't given the choice.

I suspect the same is true of eastern Ukraine. Just because they may not have wanted to be part of Ukraine doesn't mean they wanted to be part of Russia. Again, they weren't given the choice.

So, my question to you: Would you support an independent Donbass? Or an independent Crimea? Even if they wanted to align with the west?

My gut tells me your position is that they have no choice. They belong to Russia and have no say in the matter.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 10:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#29 ... Time is not on the Ukraine's side. ...

"Time being on one's side" is not a valid reason to justify an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.



#39 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 11:19 AM | Reply

Putin refused to accept the Donbass into the Russian federation,after they voted to be accepted by Russia. This was before the invasion,he said that autonomy within Ukraine by the Donbass was the best way to keep the peace.

The Ukrainian government lied about implementing the Minsk Accords,the Western alliance has since admitted this was the plan all along to buy the Ukraine time to arm for war.

Now they have their war. Hundreds of thousands of dead. Ukraine destroyed.

All so they could keep an oppressive federal structure in place to oppress their own people.

And NATO helped. More than that, NATO conspired to create more favorable conditions for the war they were inciting.

And now are running,funding and supplying against Russia for their own ends.

The Ukrainian people really got the shaft. Emboldened and encouraged to create the conditions that made war inevitable,now they are being killed and their country destroyed so others can profit from their misery and deaths.

#40 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 12:14 PM | Reply

"The Ukrainian people really got the shaft."

Ukrainian people?

Don't you mean Nazis?

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 12:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Putin refused to accept the Donbass into the Russian federation,after they voted to be accepted by Russia. This was before the invasion,he said that autonomy within Ukraine by the Donbass was the best way to keep the peace."

Link?

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 12:19 PM | Reply

@#40 ... Now they have their war. ...

What Ukraine has is Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion.

This is not Ukraine's war.

This is Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine for the purpose of annexing and eliminating Ukraine.

#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 12:36 PM | Reply

#42

Effete make a lot of claims. But I have yet to see them substantiate one.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 12:51 PM | Reply

@#44

Agreed.

Unsubstantiated claims seem to be a hallmark of the phlegm coughed up by that alias.

#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 12:54 PM | Reply

@#29 ... "Time is not on the Ukraine's side. ... "

"Time being on one's side" is not a valid reason to justify an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

#39 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

And actually it is.

As long as we and the rest of the free world continues to support them.

Time heals all wounds and wounds all heels.

Should it survive Russia (win lose or draw) will emerge from this unprovoked invasion a wounded beast and a pariah.

#46 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-01-21 01:14 PM | Reply

Okraine was becoming too successful economically and moving towards joining EU whivh was beginning to make Russianz doubt Puyin's leadership d so he decided to cripple their nation economically. Russia is a backwards s**t-hole nd Russians were becoming jealous of Ukrainians. Russians were traveling in Ukraine often and realized yhatchsl their government wasn't interested in prosperity for the people, just for oligar

#47 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 01:15 PM | Reply

I can't believe remember the links. It was on antiwar.com,and consortium news. Also on counterpunch. A lot of backstory to the conflict is found in those sites. Even smirking chimp has occasional stories that support this.

Look for yourselves,if you have the ability to not be totally brainwashed.

#48 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 01:16 PM | Reply

Also on counterpunch.

Shades of pinchaloaf.

#49 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-01-21 01:18 PM | Reply

I'm thinking more about the 150,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed. From a smaller population base. The West is sending arms and money,not people.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer

If the west was sending people, you'd complain about that too.

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 01:21 PM | Reply

Look for yourselves,if you have the ability to not be totally brainwashed.

#48 | Posted by Effeteposer

Says the guy who parrots the propaganda from the tyrant who had to take over all the tv stations and shut down the internet.

#51 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 01:22 PM | Reply

Who woild threacountries with nothing to lose like N, Korea and Russia,y ten nuclear wae? Only nations with nothing to lose like Russia or N.Korea and actually the stupid Russians will probably cause a melt down of the Zaparotia power plant which will harm Russia just as much as Ukraine. Piyin knows he will be dead by then anyway, y'all do realize Putin is bat s**t crazy by now, right?

#52 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 01:34 PM | Reply

"Ukraine was becoming too successful economically."

Yeah.
They have indoor toilets.
Leaving Russia in the dust.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-21 01:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

So many errors on this posting place. USA and Ukraine propaganda has really done its job comrades. The fact is that Zelenskyy has been attacking Russians in Donbas and Luhansk ever since he took office. If you were watching USA TV at the time, you should know this. Russia tried to negotiate for about 8 years with Ukraine. But finally Putin said enough is enough. Zelenskyy thought he could rely on unconditional support because of his ties to Israel, and he did get a lot of help. But he doesn't have the manpower or technology to win a war with Russia. And Russia relies on outside help like the Wagner Group, Iran, and other volunteers. North Korea has offered to send 100,000 soldiers, but Putin hasn't seen the need for this yet. The USA is good at brainwashing. It's an art in the USA. For example, still looking for Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction? And what about Nixon and his election boast to end the war in Vietnam? But he expanded it instead. Well do I remember the draft and the lottery. And well do I remember the USA atrocities never mentioned in the news.

#54 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-21 01:40 PM | Reply

@#54 ... So many errors on this posting place. ...

Yup.

Maybe if you fix the constant stream of errors in your posts, the number of errors will decrease substantially. ...

:)

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 01:43 PM | Reply

He seems more sane than Stoltenberg to me. Or any of the Baltic leaders,NATO is run by zanies. Putin is the most rational of the bunch.

#56 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 01:43 PM | Reply

?They have indoor toilets.
Leaving Russia in the dust."

Many reports about Russian sokdiers looting places they invade and stealing toilets and taking them back to Russia.

#57 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 01:46 PM | Reply

"NATO is run by zanies. Putin is the most rational of the bunch."

I guess you think using troops as cannon fodder is sane. I don't see any NATO country doing that. Only a psycho would do that, much like Czar Nchholas was and he ended in front of a firing squad just like Putin is going to.

#58 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 01:53 PM | Reply

So many errors on this posting place. USA and Ukraine propaganda has really done its job comrades.

#54 | Posted by wolfdog

Which country had to shut down the internet and take over all the tv stations stupid? The USA or Russia?

#59 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 01:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Look for yourselves,if you have the ability to not be totally brainwashed."

I have.

I've never found anything to suggest that anyone in Donbass was being persecuted.

That's why I asked you.

Quick. Reach back to your FSB handler. Have them make some ---- up. And get back to me. I'm sure I'll love it.

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 01:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

In The USA they just create a preferred narrative that is supposed to be true.

Any deviation from this narrative is considered to be false and is treated as disinformation by the mainstream. No need to take over anything,the majority of the population is so lazy and indifferent to anything outside their narrow interests that this works fine without the sharp edges of actual censorship.

In Russia the indifference is less and information is more dangerous.

IMHO.

#61 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 02:04 PM | Reply

@#56 ... He seems more sane than Stoltenberg to me. ...

Why does that not surprise me?


#62 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:09 PM | Reply

@#61 ... is treated as disinformation ...

So... you were asked for links to substantiate your assertions, and you wind up deflecting by spouting nonsense about disinformation.

Where are the links?

#63 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:12 PM | Reply

@#61 ... IMHO. ...

fwiw, the "M" in IMHO means "my."

But I doubt if most of what you post here is really your opinion. More likely it seems to me that it is just copied from a list of talking points given to you.

#64 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:14 PM | Reply

So why eight years of open war? Why fortifications in depth built by the Ukrainians before the Russians even got involved. Obviously someone wasn't happy in the Donbass and they did something pretty decisive about it.

The two breakaway oblasts have been seeking autonomy from Kiev for years.

The Minsk Accords we're negotiated to promote the idea of autonomy in eastern Ukraine. They were never implemented although they were signed in bad faith by the Ukrainians.

NATO encouraged that bad faith to give Ukraine time to arm and prepare.

But NATO is a peaceful and non threatening defensive alliance.

As we all have heard a million times.

#65 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 02:15 PM | Reply

@#65 ... The two breakaway oblasts have been seeking autonomy from Kiev for years. ...

Maybe. maybe not.

I'm still waiting to see your links...



#66 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:24 PM | Reply

As we all have heard a million times.

#65 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

How many times have you heard that you're a Russian stooge?

#67 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-21 02:25 PM | Reply

Why fortifications in depth

65 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Almost seems like the Ukrainians feared attack.

#68 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-21 02:26 PM | Reply

@#68 ... Almost seems like the Ukrainians feared attack. ...

With good reason.

Pres Putin had been saying for years that Ukraine should not exist, that it should be swallowed whole by Russia.

Not eastern Ukraine. All of Ukraine.


Ukraine was smart to start preparing.

#69 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:31 PM | Reply

"No need to take over anything,the majority of the population is so lazy and indifferent to anything outside their narrow interests that this works fine without the sharp edges of actual censorship.
In Russia the indifference is less and information is more dangerous." here in the U.

Such an illogical conclusion as to be laughable. On the internet we have access toyhousands of nrws sourtces here in the U'S. and around the world. It would be physically impossile to censor them sll. Jhat is not the case in Russia, If Russians really felt they coild affect the decisions being made they would be less indifferent nut they know they can't so they just accepy thrir plight like zombies. Putin is losing the lives of thousands of young men while the Russian peoplr are like docile sheep. Americans are not like the stupid Russians, We had huge prolonged proyests about Vietnam and Iraq. Our government lost the propaganda battles because we sought out yhe truth whereas Russians don't daew speak out. The you come here repeating your Russian talking points and can't figure out why we are laughing at you. You are a joke!

#70 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-21 02:34 PM | Reply

"Where are the links?"

Post the Links!

Post the links!

Post the links!

Wait...there's no links?

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 02:47 PM | Reply

"Ukraine was smart to start preparing."

In 2-3 years there will be a book, probably followed by a movie about all of it.

Did you like Zero Dark Thirty?

#72 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-21 02:50 PM | Reply

@#72

I didn't see the movie, but I remember watching the events unfold in near real-time.


#73 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 02:53 PM | Reply

In The USA they just create a preferred narrative that is supposed to be true.

Any deviation from this narrative is considered to be false and is treated as disinformation by the mainstream. No need to take over anything,the majority of the population is so lazy and indifferent to anything outside their narrow interests that this works fine without the sharp edges of actual censorship.

In Russia the indifference is less and information is more dangerous.

IMHO.

#61 | Posted by Effeteposer

In RUSSIA they just create a preferred narrative that is supposed to be true.

Any deviation from this narrative WILL GET YOU LOCKED UP OR KILLED

#74 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 03:18 PM | Reply

#70 How many protests were there against WW2? The US population saw that as existential so they just got to work building arms and fighting.

Russia right or wrongly,see this war as existential. They are behaving like it's a world war already. They aren't playing. NATO started out thinking this was controllable. That was poor judgement.

The Russians are fighting like it's the world against them. As far as NATO goes,they are.

The economic strangle that the West intended to put on Russia has largely been ineffective and self injurious.

Russia has too much ---- the world needs,oil,gas,timber, nitrogen fertilizer,rare Earth's. Agriculture.

The West is learning limits too.

#75 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 04:02 PM | Reply

- like it's the world against them.

That's what happens when one sovereign nation invades another and starts murdering civilians en masse.

- strangle that the West intended to put on Russia

"But Officer, that person was threatening to strangle me.... I could see it in their eyes!

So I shot them in the back. And their children, too!"

You DO realize what a shill you've become for a crony capitalist oligarch dictator who is known for murdering civilians, and his political enemies, do you not?

#76 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 04:31 PM | Reply

@#75 ... Russia right or wrongly,see this war as existential. ...

Only recently has Pres Putin been saying that. Only after the unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine started to go badly for Pres Putin.

The original intent was to capture all of Ukraine in a couple of weeks.

When that started to go bad, Pres Putin started changing his stated goals..

Now he seems to be locked into two things: this "existential battle" that he made up, and eastern Ukraine wants to be Russia.

And even that is going bad for him.

The West had been on a path toward greater economic ties with Russia, NATO was lowering the level of arms it had. Both of those have been reversed because of Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine.

Now, NATO and the EU are stronger, more united than ever. The West is significantly reducing its economic ties with Russia.

Even this so called "existential battle" is not going the way Pres Putin hoped it would.

The bottom line is, in spite of all your lame deflection attempts, Pres Putin's goal for years has been to annex and eliminate Ukraine. Not eastern Ukraine, but all of Ukraine.

He thought it would be a two-week thing.

He was wrong, and now he is trying to save face.

#77 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 04:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#75 ... The Russians are fighting like it's the world against them. ...

If Russia thinks the world is against them, the Pres Putin can change that rather quickly... pull Russia troops out of Ukraine (all of Ukraine) and return the occupied lands to Ukraine.

That would be a good start.


#78 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 04:50 PM | Reply

Comrades! Such a whirl wind of different opinions. How about the bottom line. Like the USA with 50,000 dead and 300,000 wounded soldiers in the Vietnam lost war. Or the war in Iraq and Afghanistan against a people who had nothing to do with 9/11. Oh! Still looking for Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction? If Satan is the Father of Lies, you should know by now who is siding with him. What's not false information is Biden alienating half the world because of the Ukraine war. We now have in the USA massive immigration, massive inflation, massive debt, massive interest rate hikes, massive crime, etc. etc.

#79 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-21 05:43 PM | Reply

Putin simply offering a ceasefire that he actually follows through with would do wonders for the lives of his soldiers.

#80 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 06:10 PM | Reply

"Comrades! Such a whirl wind of different opinions. How about the bottom line."

No thanks. My opinion of you cannot go any lower.

So.

How about you just GFY.

Thanks comrade.

#81 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-01-21 06:20 PM | Reply

@#79 ... We now have in the USA massive immigration, massive inflation, massive debt, massive interest rate hikes, massive crime, etc. etc. ...

Yup.

And even in spite of all these problems, the people of the United States are still willing to help Ukraine defend itself against an unprovoked invasion.

Ya really need to try harder.

(btw, and fwiw, I do notice how your alias seems to show up after the effeteposer alias has it's butt handed to it here. Coincidence? Who knows....)

#82 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 06:45 PM | Reply

If the US invaded Venezuela,or Iran,would NATO even blink? NATO is a rubber stamp for US imperial aspirations. NATO helps with most US "interventions",I won't call them wars because they're all done in the spirit of righteousness.

For Humanity's best interests.

Russia isn't with the program. That's a huge threat to US prestige and NATO security promises.

NATO is just the flavor of the day. It's empty promise of "security" is seen as more untenable with passing time.

In many ways this war is just as existential for NATO as it is for Russia or the Ukraine. If Russia Wins against the full weight of NATO backing and sanctions, NATO is seen less as invincible and imposing and more as confining and limiting the freedom of action of it's members.

The US has the most to lose. If would rightly be seen as all Mouth and little real substance if Russia were to achieve it's objectives in Ukraine.

So the risk of wider European war is Huge.

Given the stakes on both sides.

#83 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 06:48 PM | Reply

#82 How long would that support last if tens of thousands of Americans were coming home in body bags?

Money and obsolete weapons systems are not somebody's kid. It's Chickenhawk
half assed support.

Ask the American people if they want to send loved ones to DIE for Ukraine. Then you'll know the depth of the real support for helping Ukraine.

#84 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 06:55 PM | Reply

#70 How many protests were there against WW2? The US population saw that as existential so they just got to work building arms and fighting.

#75 | Posted by Effeteposer

You ignorant moron. Plenty of americans didn't want to get involved in WW2 in the beginning.

And if the modern republican party existed at that time they'd have wanted to join with Germany.

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 07:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The US had twice in the last century had to save Europe from becoming the launching point of military attacks, whether Germany or Russia or anyone else... from across the North Atlantic highway, er, sea.

NATO is there to make damn sure that isn't necessary yet again.

Besides which, you are just babbling now.... apparently to avoid the points addressed to you.

Vlad is the Bad Guy here, not NATO nor the US. They aren't Boy Scouts, but they haven't decided to commit slow genocide in public the way your hero Vlad has.

#86 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 07:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ask the American people if they want to send loved ones to DIE for Ukraine. Then you'll know the depth of the real support for helping Ukraine.

#84 | Posted by Effeteposer

Why should they? Just because someone isn't willing to DIE for a cause doesn't mean they dont support it.

Are you willing to DIE for russia? Or do you consider it enough to spread their propaganda?

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 07:10 PM | Reply

@#83 ... If the US invaded Venezuela,or Iran,would NATO even blink? ...

Sorry.

You really have to better than the "what if" monsters under your bed.

Do try harder.

#88 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 07:17 PM | Reply

@#84 ... Money and obsolete weapons systems are not somebody's kid. It's Chickenhawk
half assed support. ...

It seems to be slowing down Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine.


Perhaps that is your real concern with the support...

#89 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 07:20 PM | Reply

@#86 ... Besides which, you are just babbling now.... apparently to avoid the points addressed to you. ...

Soooo... I'm not the only one who has noticed the recent incoherent babbling from the effeteposer alias.

Perhaps that is why the wolfdog alias was called in for reinforcements?

Jus' askin'.



#90 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 07:23 PM | Reply

Trump wanted to invade Venezuela and did attack attack Iranian soldiers.

Americans were mortified horrified and opposed to both acts of foolishness as were our generals and our allies in NATO.

You know who supported trump? Putin.

#91 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 07:24 PM | Reply

If Biden wanted to do the same thing? With carefully tweaked talking points?

Would NATO have behaved differently? Credibility matters, Trump had none.

Bush got a lot of support for Iraq. Mostly the UK, but still.

Iraq was just as indefensible as Ukraine. But not to most Americans.


Down the road,win or lose, the Russians will see this war as having been necessary.

Because it's not just about the Ukraine.

#92 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 07:35 PM | Reply

@#92 ... If Biden wanted to do the same thing? ...

Again with the what-if?

Really.

What if Pres Putin had not decided to do an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine?

Ukraine would not have the destruction it currently faces.

I mean really, ask your handler for better talking points.

The current ones you've received are making your alias look even more foolish than usual.

(hint: that's not a compliment)


#93 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 07:41 PM | Reply

#92

When you can't directly retort points made on this situation, but continuously fall back on comparing this situation to some other situation... that's just Whataboutism.

Hypocrisy isn't the main point. The US has done a lot wrong, but doesn't let Vlad off the hook for what HE IS DOING NOW.

He could stop mass murdering children with a word, anytime.

#94 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 07:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Russians have gone from whataboutism to whatifism and are still trying to avoid things that are actually happening.

No wonder people are dying to escape putin's fifedom.

#95 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 07:49 PM | Reply

Hint...... it wasn't UNPROVOKED. That's the lamest talking point of all.

Provoked or not it was a HUGE MISTAKE. Putin is no genius.

But now he's In it, he's in to Win it. And that is not a good thing for Humanity.

Damage control is negotiating a settlement so the war can be resume later, hopefully, much later.

Total victory isn't in the cards,this war is showing the limits of both sides.

#96 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 07:50 PM | Reply

@#96 ... Hint...... it wasn't UNPROVOKED ...

Yes, it was.

Pres Putin has said that Ukraine should not exist, that Ukraine should be a part of Russia.

Unlike you, I have links.

Putin's new Ukraine essay reveals imperial ambitions (July 2021)
www.atlanticcouncil.org

...Russian President Vladimir Putin has outlined the historical basis for his claims against Ukraine in a controversial new essay that has been likened in some quarters to a declaration of war. The 5,000-word article, entitled "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians," was published on July 12 and features many of talking points favored by Putin throughout the past seven years of undeclared war between Russia and Ukraine.

The Russian leader uses the essay to reiterate his frequently voiced conviction that Russians and Ukrainians are "one people," while blaming the current collapse in bilateral ties on foreign plots and anti-Russian conspiracies.

In one particularly ominous passage, he openly questions the legitimacy of Ukraine's borders and argues that much of modern-day Ukraine occupies historically Russian lands, before stating matter of factly, "Russia was robbed." ...




That is what Pres Putin's invasion is about --- Pres Putin thinks that Ukraine should not exist, that it is a part of Russia.

All the deflections you have posted are just that -- deflections.

Which leads me to ask, why has your alias been so focused upon deflecting away from Pres Putin's real desire with his unprovoked invasion of Ukraine?


#97 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 07:59 PM | Reply

@#96

I will note that as soon as I noticed in #82

"(btw, and fwiw, I do notice how your alias seems to show up after the effeteposer alias has it's butt handed to it here. Coincidence? Who knows....) "

that the wolfdog alias disappeared and the effeteposer alias came back.

Coincidence?

Who knows....


:)

#98 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 08:01 PM | Reply

One. More. Time. It's not about NATO

www.brookings.edu

And just so this thread isn't another waste of time and space where Moneywar would rather talk about Iraq than Ukraine, as if that mattered, and be blind to the civilian bombings in Ukraine now today, and not in Moscow.....

www.youtube.com

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 08:02 PM | Reply

From your brookings.edu link (wow, another link. Hey, effeteposer, where are your links?)

OK, I digress.

From the brookings.edu link your comment cites...

...Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin had a number of reasons for invading Ukraine in February and starting the largest military conflict in Europe since World War II. Putin sought to portray the pre-invasion crisis that Moscow created with Ukraine as a NATO-Russia dispute, but that framing does not stand up to serious scrutiny.

Putin tried hard. In late 2021, he complained of NATO's "rising" military threat on Russia's western borders and demanded legal guarantees for Russia, as if the country with the world's largest nuclear arsenal and largest army in Europe needed such guarantees. Moscow proposed draft agreements with NATO and the United States that would have ruled out further NATO enlargement and required the Alliance to withdraw all military forces and infrastructure from members that had joined after 1997.

Washington and NATO offered to engage on other elements of the draft agreements regarding arms control and risk reduction measures, which could have made a genuine contribution to Europe's security, including Russia. However, U.S. and NATO officials would not foreswear further enlargement. That became another grievance -- along with false claims of neo-Nazis in Kyiv, genocide in Donbas and a Ukrainian pursuit of nuclear arms -- that Putin cited in his February 24 explanation of his unjustifiable decision to launch a new invasion of Ukraine....

[emphasis mine]

Interesting...

#100 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 08:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Russia should fear their decades old nukes malfunctioning.

Best of luck to the Ruskies surviving Putin.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-01-21 08:26 PM | Reply

If the nukes don't get them Yevgeny Prigozhin will tie up Loose Ends by poisoning all his little trolls.

#102 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 08:32 PM | Reply

imho. I think it is wrong to underestimate Russia's military ability.

Jus' sayin'

#103 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 08:38 PM | Reply

The past year has really shown their prowess.

#104 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-01-21 08:42 PM | Reply

What do you mean, "if?"

The defeat is an ongoing situation.

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-21 08:45 PM | Reply

- Best of luck to the Ruskies surviving Putin.

Here's some that got out:

www.youtube.com

#106 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 08:55 PM | Reply

@#104 ... The past year has really shown their prowess. ...

Don't underestimate Russia's military strength, German defence chief warns (august 2022)
www.reuters.com

...Germany's chief of defence has warned that the West must not underestimate Moscow's military strength, saying Russia has the scope to open up a second front should it choose to do so.

"The bulk of the Russian land forces may be tied down in Ukraine at the moment but, even so, we should not underestimate the Russian land forces' potential to open a second theatre of war," General Eberhard Zorn, the highest-ranking soldier of the Bundeswehr, told Reuters in an interview.

Beyond the army, Russia also has a navy and air force at its disposal, he added....


Never, ever underestimate what you are fighting against. You will lose.


#107 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 09:07 PM | Reply

Negotiate a cease fire and give it time to cool off. What's the rush?

Oh yeah, the coalition might not be as solid as it seems,there's that,and the sanctions aren't as effective as they could be.

A cease fire would also make the goldfish like attention span of most Americans believe the war was over and a great victory for Ukraine no matter what happened.

So they know they only get one bite at this.

I don't see Americans going the distance. We're fair weather Warriors.

Real War is just so draining,and boring. Americans just want easy fun and profit.

Real sacrifice?

Get the he ---- out of here!!

#108 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 09:09 PM | Reply

- Negotiate a cease fire

Vlad says, "Nyet!"

Not enough dead Ukrainian children yet.

#109 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 09:21 PM | Reply

Besides... negotiating with terrorists like Vlad is a bad idea.

#110 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 09:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

we should not underestimate the Russian land forces' potential to open a second theatre of war,"

Yea. Because they're doing so well with the first theater of war.

Putin managed to prove, beyond doubt, how impotent the Russian a military is.

#111 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-01-21 09:24 PM | Reply

@#108 ... Negotiate a cease fire ...

Is that the new talking that has been issued to you?

Negotiate?

Pres Putin has done an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country. Because he wants to annex and eliminate the country.

Pres Putin needs to pull back his troops and return any occupied lands to their rightful country, Ukraine.

Really, your comments recently have been odd, to say the least. But now they are becoming unhinged.

And where, if I may ask, is your apparent alter-ego wolfdog?

And one more question... where are your links to substantiate what you have posted here to this most august board?

Where are they?


#112 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 09:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#111 ... beyond doubt, how impotent the Russian a military is. ...

Tactically, in the Ukraine battle, I may agree.

Strategically, I am not yet convinced.

Rainmakers - Snakedance
www.youtube.com

Lyrics...

genius.com

...
This is the lion?'s den
I hope you knew that before you came in
This is where the angels and the devils fight
And they're choosing up sides tonight
...

#113 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 09:35 PM | Reply

Yevgeny Prigozhin.

I doubt the trolls even dare write his name

#114 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 09:38 PM | Reply

EffettPutin has a lot of Blind Faith in Vlad.....

www.youtube.com

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-21 09:43 PM | Reply

#8: Mullens cannot be fired, he retired more than 6 years ago. But he is one of the most rational and least hawkish former CJCS alive today.

Also, those elections cannot be considered any more legitimate than confessions after torture are "legit". People under hostile occupation by Russia have never wanted to be ruled by Russia's system.

#116 | Posted by Augustine at 2023-01-21 10:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nothing Dmitry Medvedev says means anything EXCEPT that he's voicing EXACTLY WHAT PUTIN TELLS MEDVEDEV TO SAY. if Medvedev had any guts and any moral conscience in the.first place, he'd never have relinquished control back to Putin to turn Russia into an even deeper kleptocracy than it was the first time Putin was in control.

But ... Putin's surrounded himself with frightened butt kissers who know that standing up to him would be self-destructive. Medvedev knows that well.

Patriarch Kiril is worse. Every non-Russian Orthodox bishop, priest and monk detests Kiril's Putin cheerleading. How can anyone of good conscience support indiscriminate war on civilians of every age? Putin's war is patently immoral and unjustifiable. Threats to escalate Russia's murderous aggression don't help Russia or Russians. They just mark Russia's military as one of the most evil and detestable militaries in the world and embolden China to make Putin kneel before Xi Jinping (general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party and chairman of the Central Military Commission), because Xi is Putin's only "ally" of any capacity.

#117 | Posted by Augustine at 2023-01-21 10:44 PM | Reply

@#117 ... But ... Putin's surrounded himself with frightened butt kissers who know that standing up to him would be self-destructive ...

... and if they are smart, they will stay away from windows in high rise buildings.

#118 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 11:00 PM | Reply

@#115 ... Blind Faith ...

Wow. Evoking so many memories that I cannot remember from decades ago...

(I'll leave it at that for now...)

:)


Blind Faith - Presence Of The Lord
www.youtube.com

#119 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 11:04 PM | Reply

How do you know this? Sources? C'mon man get real.

#120 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-01-21 11:05 PM | Reply

@#119

fwiw, I remember the original album cover for that album, and the controversy it had created.

Woof.

#121 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 11:07 PM | Reply

@#120 ... How do you know this? ...

How does who know what? A random, unspecific, post here does not help your alias attain its goal.

... C'mon man get real. ...

Your alias may want to ascribe to what it prescribes.

Jus' sayin'


Where are your links?

I've provided links.

Where are your links?

Yer up...


Please do the same.


#122 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-21 11:12 PM | Reply

Yevgeny Prigozhin.

The trolls won't say his name.

#123 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-21 11:24 PM | Reply

Because it's not just about the Ukraine.

#92 | Posted by Effeteposer

Exactly. It's about re assembling the USSR. Ukraine is the first step.

#124 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-21 11:49 PM | Reply

@#124 ... Exactly. It's about re assembling the USSR. Ukraine is the first step. ...

Wow, I'll take $100 for "Things I wish I had said."

Bingo, your comment is spot on.

thx.

#125 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 12:01 AM | Reply

- How do you know this?

Readin', writin', and 'rithmatic!

#126 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-22 12:04 AM | Reply

@#126 ... Readin', writin', and 'rithmatic! ...

Oddly, I would have suggested that it may have been due to the talking points email (instructions?) that the alias had received.

:)


#127 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 12:14 AM | Reply

Exactly. It's about re assembling the USSR.

Exactly. No it's not.

#128 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 12:19 AM | Reply

#128

Ah... argument-free declarative statements.

Must be wearing a red hat and kowtowing towards Mar a Lardo.

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2023-01-22 12:32 AM | Reply

@#128 ... Exactly. It's about re assembling the USSR.

Exactly. No it's not. ...

One of the requirement of a discussion is to make sense.

Yer up...

#130 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 12:41 AM | Reply

@#128

For example...

Kay Kyser - Three Little Fishies
www.youtube.com

#131 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 12:44 AM | Reply

It's about re assembling the USSR.

Sometimes you reassemble the USSR, sometime the USSR reassembles you.

#132 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-01-22 12:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#132
Winner!

Please, tip your waitress! and for goodness sake, smash that like button and please somebody click the ad for me, as I cannot see any advertisments on mah computar.

#133 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 12:58 AM | Reply

I think Putin is trying to assemble the pre-soviet union Russian Empire.

#134 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-22 01:00 AM | Reply

#134

Why do you think that?

#135 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:09 AM | Reply

@#135 ...Why do you think that? ...

Things like this...

Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of Soviet' Russia (March 2014)
www.bbc.com

...The once-mighty Russian army had lost a war in Chechnya, a place with fewer inhabitants than Russia had soldiers. Three former Warsaw Pact allies had joined Nato, bringing the Western alliance up to Russia's borders....

When Putin spoke to the Duma, his homeland was a different, and less respected place. He spoke the language of a man who yearned for the lost certainties, who longed for a time when Moscow was to be reckoned with. He did not say it explicitly, but he was clearly stung by Russia's failure to stop Nato driving the forces of its ally, Serbia, out of Kosovo just months previously.

"Russia has been a great power for centuries, and remains so. It has always had and still has legitimate zones of interest ... We should not drop our guard in this respect, neither should we allow our opinion to be ignored," he said.

His domestic policy was to restore stability, to end what he called the "revolutions", that had brought Russia low. His foreign policy was to regain Russia's place in world affairs.

Those two core aims have driven everything he has done since. If only people had been listening, none of his actions would have come as a surprise to them.

Since then, he has seized every opportunity history has offered him, from the attacks of 11 September 2001 to the Ukrainian Revolution of 2013, in his bid to secure his aims. He has been tactically astute and ruthlessly opportunistic. At home and abroad, he wants Russia to regain the prestige it held when he was growing up.

The obvious place to start his campaign was in Chechnya, symbol of Russia's collapse. The Chechens had defeated Yeltsin's attempt to crush their self-declared independence, but it proved a bitter victory. The war devastated Chechnya's people, economy and infrastructure. Chechnya became a sink of kidnapping, violence and crime, and - until Putin - no-one did anything about...


Woof, a most interesting and worthwhile read, imo.


#136 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 01:23 AM | Reply

#136
Great post! But saving onion browser, meh.

Con sider this, though- Russia has tigers. Ukraine, no tigers.

#137 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:31 AM | Reply

@#137

Do try to make sense.

thx.

:)

#138 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 01:34 AM | Reply

Russia have BEARS and POLAR BEARS. Ukraine have NO Bears! Give up!

#139 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:36 AM | Reply

Russia isn't really the enemy.
Putin and his kleptocracy and oligarch supporters wanted to annex Ukraine.
Now, Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are getting slaughtered.
Biden implementing sanctions and rallying NATO to support Ukraine is good, but this isn't hurting the Russian leadership.
Biden should order the CIA to hunt down every oligarch and their families.
Make Russian leaders realize that Ukraine will out live all of them.

#140 | Posted by bored at 2023-01-22 01:40 AM | Reply

@#139 ... Russia have BEARS and POLAR BEARS. Ukraine have NO Bears! Give up! ...

Give what up?

As I mentioned previously, do try to make sense.

#141 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 01:42 AM | Reply

@#140 ... Biden should order the CIA to hunt down every oligarch and their families. ...

Probably why Pres Putin has recently increased the air defense systems in the Moscow area...

Air defense systems on Moscow roofs installed to increase Russian support of war
euromaidanpress.com

...The Kremlin is likely intensifying its efforts to present Russia's invasion of Ukraine as an existential war to set informational conditions for a protracted war in Ukraine, ISW assesses.

Russian and social media sources circulated images on January 19 and 20 showing Russian officials installing air defense systems on the roof of the Russian Ministry of Defense building in Moscow and elsewhere near the city. Some Russian milbloggers responded to these images with satisfaction that Moscow residents would finally be aware that Russia is involved in a "difficult war" in Ukraine.

The Kremlin likely deployed the air defense systems in Moscow to generate inflammatory images that portray the war as more threatening to the Russian public. It is unlikely, however, that the Kremlin believes that Ukraine would target Moscow and it likely engaged in this ostentatious play to support intensifying information operations to prepare the Russian domestic information space for a protracted war in Ukraine and further sacrifices....


#142 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 01:51 AM | Reply

Biden should order the CIA to hunt down every oligarch and their families.

Wow. Really?

#143 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:52 AM | Reply

Kill the babies! How Torah...

#144 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:53 AM | Reply

"But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive

#145 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:55 AM | Reply

And then, for no reason at all...

#146 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 01:57 AM | Reply

@#143-146 ... "But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive ...

Do try to make sense.

#147 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:06 AM | Reply

The extrajudicial execution of Denis Kireev in March 2022 was due to a lack of coordination between security services, a top aide to Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky said on Thursday. Mikhail Podoliak was responding to a Wall Street Journal feature describing the 45-year-old banker as an asset of Ukrainian military intelligence, who supposedly helped save Kiev from Russian attack.

Kireev was killed on March 2 last year. His body was dumped on a Kiev sidewalk "with a bullet hole in the back of the skull," according to the WSJ. Ukrainian media reported at the time that the country's security service, the SBU, had "clear" evidence Kireev had committed high treason. The military intelligence, however, said he "died protecting Ukraine."

#148 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:08 AM | Reply

Biden should order the CIA to hunt down every oligarch and their families.

Makes you murderers, is the sense. Murderers trying to claim some ethical highground.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

hunt down every oligarch and their families.
And do what? Murder them?

YOU are the problem

#149 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:14 AM | Reply

Robots have no knots and can talk themselves into rocks

#150 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-22 02:16 AM | Reply

You are letting them turn you into a golem.
hunt down ... families
Indeed. Now you know. Repent.

#151 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:24 AM | Reply

@#149 ... YOU are the problem ...

Good to see you say that.

The earlier comments of your alias were, let's say, different.

It took longer, but apparently now I have finally been able to coax your alias to expose it's true colors.

Thank-you.

So, maybe you might want to explain your sudden appearance as the effeteposer alias has had its derriere handed to it via multiple comments?



#152 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:25 AM | Reply

In what sense is
hunt down ... families
acceptable?
Do you not know of reciprocity?

#153 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:27 AM | Reply

#152
Argue the message please. Don't worry so much the messenger.

#154 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:29 AM | Reply

@#153 ... Do you not know of reciprocity? ...

Reciprocity by whom?

Your current alias speaks of reciprocity.

Reciprocity requires two entities.

Please specify the two entities in your reciprocity.

#155 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:30 AM | Reply

Wishing for others' families murdered vs having own families murdered.
Golden rule and all. Don't advocate murder.

Klicken Sie auf die Anzeige!

#156 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:35 AM | Reply

@#154 .. Argue the message please. ...

That's what I do.

But sometimes the message reveals interesting information about the messenger.

Yeah, I do prefer to talk about the comment more than the commenter.

But the comments posted by your alias , let's just say, you blew your cover.

And now your alias seems to be trying to recover its hiding spot.

Sorry, but it is too obvious to just ignore or place behind a "message not the messager" comment.

Leon Redbone -- Diddy Wa Diddie
www.youtube.com

Do try harder...




#157 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:37 AM | Reply

Reciprocity requires two entities.

Murder-wisher vs Karma, OK?

#158 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:37 AM | Reply

@#156 ... Wishing for others' families murdered vs having own families murdered ...

So, I asked, specifically, "Reciprocity by whom?" and , instead of saying who, your current alias went off in a completely different direction to avoid replying.

Deflection.

Interesting.


#159 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:40 AM | Reply

Oh come on, I'm literally handing it to you.

My real name is IAM.

Take your time, click the ad a couple of times, and then think about it.
And declare your argument, pro hunt-them-families-down or con?

#160 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:42 AM | Reply

The TWO SIDES are those with MURDER IN THEIR HEARTS and those who DO NOT HAVE MURDER IN THEIR HEARTS.

Is this clear enough?
Which side are you on?

#161 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 02:44 AM | Reply

@#158 ... Murder-wisher vs Karma, OK? ...

No.

Who, specifically, is "murder-wisher" and who is "Karma" is yor imagination?


Wally - I Just Wanna Be A Cowboy
www.youtube.com

#162 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:44 AM | Reply

@#160 ... Oh come on, I'm literally handing it to you. ...

Not really.

You comments are being [intentionally] most evasive.

Do try harder.

#163 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:46 AM | Reply

@#161 ... The TWO SIDES are those with MURDER IN THEIR HEARTS and those who DO NOT HAVE MURDER IN THEIR HEARTS.

Is this clear enough?....

Not really.

Your current alias seems to have a reading comprehension problem.

I ask for specifics, and your alias gives me deflections.

So, once again, what are the TWO SIDES your comment speaks of?


Yer up.


#164 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 02:50 AM | Reply

Just don't wish the CIA hunting down families, that's all.
Because someday they will come for your own.
Don't worry, they will have all the right reasons and myopic justifications. Because you supported it for others, it will happen to you. How many ways must I state the golden rule?

#165 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 03:04 AM | Reply

I'm addressing the two percent here.

#166 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-22 03:10 AM | Reply

@#165 ... just don't wish the CIA hunting down families, that's all....

Wow, so your current alias seems to take a comment by a random person on a message board as the policy of a country?

Wow.

You may need to ask your handlers for better material to work with.

Jus' sayin'


Wow.


#167 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 03:14 AM | Reply

@#166 ... I'm addressing the two percent here. ...

Oh, cool. Math.

OK, two percent of what?

If you say you are addressing the two percent, then you must know the total sample.

So, please explain how your current alias has arrived at the 2% it says it is addressing?

thx.

#168 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-22 03:17 AM | Reply

"Russia right or wrongly, see this war as existential."

Like, if they lose it, they can no longer call themselves an imperial power.

That might be true, but any country that still thinks imperialism is OK should probably be relegated to extinction.

#169 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-22 05:29 AM | Reply

Mass murderer says what?
It is as if your neighbor is being beaten by thugs, and the police won't do anything, the police in this case being the UN, so you have a choice. You can turn your back on the injuries and deaths of your neighbors. or you can do what you can to help them.

#170 | Posted by Hughmass at 2023-01-22 06:20 AM | Reply

So many odd things about Russia & its history. Putin's kleptocracy of former KGB megalomaniacs is the latest. The Russian Orthodox Church's collaboration with autocrats at the expense of its faithful is another perennial oddity. Why would tens of millions obey clergy who support oppression and suppression of human rights and liberty? Like the Patriarchs who fostered tsarism, Kiril, a life long KGB functionary first backed Communism's domestic terrorism and now endorses Putin's kleptocratic government and his murderous aggression against innocent civilians and their defenders. From Ivan the Terrible, to Rasputin, Beria, Stalin & Lenin to the Iron Curtain's evil vs its neighbors & to Putin this vast cobbled together Empire has struggled to impose its autocracy on neighbors and few neighbors who've survived Russia's threats ever want to feel tgev"embrace" of "Mother" Russia ever again.

#171 | Posted by Augustine at 2023-01-22 08:35 AM | Reply

Posted by stoneher

Crackpot plonked.

#172 | Posted by Angrydad at 2023-01-22 12:15 PM | Reply

Which side are you on?

#161 | POSTED BY STONEHER

Which side are YOU on?

Also what kind of drugs?

#173 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-01-22 12:51 PM | Reply

Donner they don't have California Grade weed in Russia they have paint which they huff.

#174 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-22 03:41 PM | Reply

Tor

True dat!

We still have the best of the best in the Emerald Triangle.

But it looks to me like he is on LSD or some kind of new psychedelic that maybe I haven't tried yet.

#175 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-01-22 03:53 PM | Reply

Look for yourselves,

#48 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

"Look for yourselves" seems to be the fallback position of practically every liar on the internet who has nothing but the garbage they've pulled from their own posterior, because they have no other reliable evidence.

#176 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2023-01-23 12:02 PM | Reply

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