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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, January 25, 2023

Air defense systems are being erected all over Moscow in anticipation of Putin's invasion ending with moscow being conquered by Ukrainian forces.

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Who wants Moscow?

Maybe St. Petersburg. Give it back to Sweden after they join NATO.

#1 | Posted by censored at 2023-01-24 07:35 PM | Reply

Sweden? That land is going to either Finland Latvia or Estonia.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-24 08:00 PM | Reply

We'll since they'll all be members of NATO, I guess that they can share.

#3 | Posted by censored at 2023-01-24 09:29 PM | Reply

Now the Right can cry victim FOR Putin.

Thanks, Trump.

#4 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-01-24 09:33 PM | Reply

One good predator drone and that's a wrap.

#5 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-24 10:19 PM | Reply

I just remembered Sweden is going to get some land but it's far above the Arctic circle.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-25 12:55 PM | Reply

""Lavrov complained about the installation of air defense systems in residential areas in Ukraine " now the same thing is happening in Moscow," said a Muscovite who lives near the Taganskaya metro where such a system was recently installed.

"I think it's absurd."

It is sbsurd yhat the stupid Russians still belrve they should not face attacks in response to Putib's unptovokedbattacks on Ukraine and I dout that Mpscow will remain undamaged much lomger. Zelensky has been reluctany to respond omside Russia but now Ukraene can take Pstcho Putin's war to his front door and I expect he will soon.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-25 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sweden? That land is going to either Finland Latvia or Estonia."

Karelia, which is just north of St. Pete is a historically Finnish territory, as in "the hand" in the far north.

One of the people I occasionally work with is a Finnish fighter pilot. He told me his son suggested that Finland take back the hand while the Soviets were pre-occupied further south.

The problem is that all the Finns fled those areas when the Soviets took over. I don't know that they want to be responsible for the care and feeding of a bunch of Orcs.

#8 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-25 03:47 PM | Reply

"One good predator drone and that's a wrap."

One Russian nuke as well...

#9 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2023-01-25 04:03 PM | Reply

After a year of a obviously failed war in Ukraine the general Russian populace needs to take notice of how many of their men are dying there and how many resources are being wasted there and that it's all on a Putin vanity project.

#10 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-25 05:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ukraine couldn't conquer a birthday party much less Russia.

#11 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-25 05:21 PM | Reply

Ukraine won't even have to drop missiles it can just drop the landmines and other munitions Russia has left in their land.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-25 05:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

lets compare body counts between Russia and Ukraine, lefthamdturds.

#13 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2023-01-25 05:30 PM | Reply

@#11 ... Ukraine couldn't conquer a birthday party much less Russia. ...

I doubt if Pres Putin had the air defense systems installed because he was afraid of Ukraine conquering Russia, that's just the usual ridiculous straw man bravado of your comments.

I do think that Pres Putin has a concern about a drone strike in Moscow, even the Kremlin.

So far, drones have struck fairly deeply within Russia. Is Moscow or the Kremlin too far in Russia to be impervious to a drone strike?

Pres Putin seems to think that it might be possible for a drone to strike that deeply in Russia, hence the installation of the air defense systems.

#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-25 05:40 PM | Reply

Come Summer Russian tanks on the field of battle will be tough to find. Their crews will park them in places where they cannot be seen by satellites or drones, and then spend their days drinking ...

#15 | Posted by catdog at 2023-01-25 07:17 PM | Reply

Is Moscow or the Kremlin too far in Russia to be impervious to a drone strike?

#14 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-01-25 05:40 PM | FLAG:

Definitely in range if it's a 1 way trip.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-01-25 07:44 PM | Reply

This article is not true. Before this actually happens, Russia will use A-bombs on its own territory. Since the people of Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea all voted to join Russia, the USA and its allies are now financing Ukraine to attack Russia itself. This is something that has never been done before. We are all in great danger because of Biden's rash and poor international leadership.

#17 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-25 09:41 PM | Reply

"After a year of a obviously failed war in Ukraine the general Russian populace needs to take notice of how many of their men are dying there and how many resources are being wasted there and that it's all on a Putin vanity project."

I'll try and find the link, but there is a Russian blogger on YouTube. This kid goes out and asks Russians how they feel about the war. Almost universally, their answer is that they are not political or are too busy for politics. Which means they don't want to get involved.

Those who do offer support are often old and out of shape babushkas or equally old and out of shape men. They know they'll never be sent to the front line.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 01:58 AM | Reply

vRussia's invasion of Ukraine violates Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, a central tenet of the charter that requires UN member states to refrain from the "use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."

This article is not true. Before this actually happens, Russia will use A-bombs on its own territory. Since the people of Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea all voted to join Russia, the USA and its allies are now financing Ukraine to attack Russia itself.

Horse s**t! Ehey were forced to vote witg Russian gubs aened at them and you aren't so stupid that you can honestly deny it unless you are really just a Russian troll. How is the weather in Russia today?

#19 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-26 09:36 AM | Reply

#14 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-01-25 05:40 PM | REPLY | FLAG

My comment is still valid. Ukraine can't do anything without the West's intervention.

Last week they were begging for tanks and this week it's F-16 fighter jets.

thehill.com

#20 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-26 09:42 AM | Reply

@#20 ... Ukraine can't do anything without the West's intervention. ...

I am of the opinion that Ukraine did quite well during the first couple of weeks of Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion, stopping Russia in its tracks (literally?) as Russia was heading to take over Kyiv.

In a sense, though, I do agree with some of what you say. Ukraine vs Russia, head-to-head is not a fair fight. Especially since Ukraine had agreed to give up it nukes...

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-26 11:20 AM | Reply

"Last week they were begging for tanks and this week it's F-16 fighter jets.

We helped England fight against Hitler and now we're helping Ukraine fight Psycho Putin, thay's much better than having our own troops fighting hin directly. NATO nations understand the threat and are also supplying weapons abd we're a member of NATO so I have no problem giving Ukraine everything they need yo push Russia out of their sovereign territory.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-26 11:37 AM | Reply

reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com

#23 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-26 12:10 PM | Reply

#22
Great job typing! I hope you are feeling well today.

But I opine that a couple of dozen tanks won't affect the big picture.

#24 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-26 12:15 PM | Reply

Danni...you realize of course that we're helping Ukraine because of Zelenskyy's origins to Israel. And it is costing the world dear with high inflation; and destroying amicable relations with Russia, China, and North Korea. With supposed Russian losses of 150,000 soldiers, over 3,000 tanks, and numerous planes; do you really think Russia is going to call it quits and kowtow to Zelenskyy? These territories voted to join Russia. They are NOW Russia. We are on an express train to nuclear war.

#25 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-26 01:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I am of the opinion that Ukraine did quite well during the first couple of weeks of Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion, stopping Russia in its tracks (literally?) as Russia was heading to take over Kyiv.

#21 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-01-26 11:20 AM | REPLY |

Then let them battle it out if you have that much confidence.

Also, look at Danni living in a pre-nuclear age.

Ukraine wouldn't piss on the USA if it was on fire and I couldn't care less if Russia took it over.

#26 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-26 02:44 PM | Reply

#21 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

You understand the US was providing real time intelligence the whole time right?

#27 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-01-26 02:54 PM | Reply

I couldn't care less if Russia took it (Ukraine) over.

#26 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Don't short yourself. Not caring is your super power.

#28 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-26 03:15 PM | Reply

#26 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

There's no more than a dime's worth of difference between Trumpism and Putinism. By helping to destroy Putin in Ukraine we are helping destroy Trump here.

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-26 03:26 PM | Reply

If Canada decided that the state of New York "historically" has always been part of Canada, invaded and occupied New York and then held a referendum with a very believable result of 98% wanting to join Canada, do you think the US would put up with that and say, "Oh well, they voted, so New York is part of Canada now."?

#30 | Posted by eightfifteenpm at 2023-01-26 03:48 PM | Reply

"My comment is still valid. Ukraine can't do anything without the West's intervention."

Of course, they could.

The Taliban outlasted pretty much the entire western world...and that's after they outlasted the Soviets.

Had the Soviets been successful in deploying forces across Ukraine, they would have been met with an insurgency where the appointed leaders would have been confined to highly protected areas, and control would have been limited to larger urban areas.

As always happens, guerillas would have controlled the countryside, probably under the control of a shadow government still loyal to whatever remained of Kyiv.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 04:00 PM | Reply

"Last week they were begging for tanks and this week it's F-16 fighter jets."

They don't understand what they are asking for. An F-16 isn't going to be anymore survivable against an SA-21 or SA-23 than a MiG-29 is.

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 04:04 PM | Reply

Anyone living in Moscow should realize that they need to get Putin to end this war before the war doesn't just come to the doorstep it comes through the door and sets the house on fire.

#33 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-26 05:07 PM | Reply

Of course, they could.

#31 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2023-01-26 04:00 PM | REPLY |

Show me. Because they haven't.

#34 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-26 05:33 PM | Reply

Danni...you realize of course that we're helping Ukraine because of Zelenskyy's origins to Israel.

#25 | Posted by wolfdog

Were helping ukraine because they're a fledgling democracy being attacked by a fascist dictatorship. And because the man they're fighting has been trying to bring down our country for years, including paying losers like you to spread their lies within our country.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-26 05:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Were helping ukraine because they're a fledgling democracy being attacked by a fascist dictatorship. And because the man they're fighting has been trying to bring down our country for years, including paying losers like you to spread their lies within our country.

#35 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Amen.

#36 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-26 05:52 PM | Reply

"Show me. Because they haven't."

Sure they did.

Western intelligence agencies believed that all of Ukraine would fall in a matter of weeks. Any thought of giving aid to them was put aside. Why give them equipment when it would just wind up destroyed or in the hands of Russians.

Instead, Ukrainian citizens armed up and fought back the Russians...without western aid.

It wasn't until many months later that anything other than small arms began flowing in.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 05:56 PM | Reply

I couldn't care less if Russia took it over.
#26 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

First they came for Ukraine.
I Really Don't Care. Do U?

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-26 06:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Western intelligence agencies believed that all of Ukraine would fall in a matter of weeks."

Not as universal as you make it out to be.
But after Crimea that wasn't a bad starting assumption.

Ukraine got stronger, but more importantly, Russia got looted by Putin and the oligarchs for eight years.

I too would likely have erred on the side of "He wouldn't loot his own military, right?"

This man is supposed to be a Mastermind. Not a Papa Doc.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-26 06:10 PM | Reply

"Not as universal as you make it out to be."

Really?

I'm buried pretty deep in that community. There were two likely scenarios that most of us agreed to.

One was that Putin would not invade at all. The decision calculus didn't play out. This was a majority opinion within my organization.

The second was that Putin would invade, and that Ukraine would fall in a matter of weeks.

What were you hearing differently?

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 06:25 PM | Reply

"But after Crimea that wasn't a bad starting assumption."

The other thing that many of us tend to agree on is that had Putin tried to invade and capture all of Ukraine in 2014, he very likely would have succeeded under the conditions he expected in 2022.

Instead, he gave Ukrainians eight years to build up a seething hatred of Russians.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-26 06:26 PM | Reply

Foolish comrades! Very foolish to finance or support a war against Russia. Especially since Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea are now Russia. Now in the USA we have mass inflation, crime out of control as evidenced by arrests of police, and people losing tens of thousands of jobs.

#42 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-26 09:01 PM | Reply

Foolish comrades! Very foolish to finance or support a war against Russia. Especially since Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea are now Russia. Now in the USA we have mass inflation, crime out of control as evidenced by arrests of police, and people losing tens of thousands of jobs.

#42 | Posted by wolfdog

Funny how republican and russian propaganda always sound exactly the same.

If you lived in a country with a functioning economy instead of a kleptocracy you wouldnt have to resort to this pathetic way to earn your rubles.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-26 09:15 PM | Reply

Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea are just 'temporarily occupied
by miscreants' Wolfdog/Effete Loser... They have been Ukraini
for some time now. Go back to your dying master, Pooty. He
will be out of office, soon enough, the way I hear.

#44 | Posted by earthmuse at 2023-01-27 06:37 AM | Reply

Throughout history the legitimacy of violence has been a common debate. Was it right for one marauding tribe to go to war against another for more land or food or offspring? Was war to avenge an injustice OK? If so, when and at what level was violence excessive?

The ancient Romans believed in total war until their targets capitulated completely. Although the Christianization of the Roman Empire saw the rise of "just war" theory, religious wars in those days between various sects accusing the other of "heresy" almost nullified the righteousness of each sect's beliefs. Not long after, Islam adopted the pattern of conversion through mass capitulation under duress if necessary. And so it went, some wars were waged chivalrously and others visciously.

So despite "just war" theory's existence, it's utility waxed & waned over the centuries. America's Civil War might have been "civil" in that both sides strictly forbade violence against non-combatants, but the combatant death tolls were truly horrific. And from then on war's capacity to inflict horrific harm to lives and treasure has become boundless.

Enter a debate on the ethics of war - again.

Commonly, advanced democracies believe that violence between states or by governments on any sect among its population is wrong. Enter Putin. Clearly his fear that Russia's former Soviet satellites were aligning with NATO and the EU was a critically serious threat to Putin's idea of Russia's national interests. (Note, though, that Putin's kleptocracy defines Russia's interests as everything that keeps Putin rich and his kleptocrat lieutenants enriched and in power.) So, in cahoots with Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kiril, a long-time former KGB compatriot of Putin, Russians are told that Russia is saving ethnic Russians from Ukraine and stopping Western immorality from expanding into Russia's neighborhood. So does Russia's #1 religious leader Kiril endorse Russia's aerial on Ukraine's civilians? Does Kiril understand the concept of "proportionality' in war?

If Ukraine's response to Russia's violence on civilians were to be "proportional", then should bombardment by Russia on a Ukrainian city be matched by a Ukrainian bombardment of a Russian city? If this is a consideration, then Russia ought to make those air defense units very prominent. Two world wars showed Europe the horrors of matching violence with violence. But for how long should Russia's civilian population be allowed to remain dumb to the violence Russia's military has unleashed on their civilian counterparts in Ukraine?

Make Russians realize that their violence vs civilians has consequences. Somehow. How?

#45 | Posted by Augustine at 2023-01-27 06:50 AM | Reply

ERTHMUSE

"Disappeared" into a sanitorium, so I read, while the brass at the Kremlin figure out a dignified way to extricate Russia from Putin's Ukraine boondoggle.

They'll have to talk to President Biden about that, i.e. war crimes, reparations, Crimea and other some such things.

#46 | Posted by Twinpac at 2023-01-27 07:13 AM | Reply

#37 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2023-01-26 05:56 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You're making my point for me. As Russia steps up their efforts. It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance.

#47 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-27 10:16 AM | Reply

It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance.

#47 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

So what?

The point is that they are competing.

#48 | Posted by Zed at 2023-01-27 10:24 AM | Reply

"You're making my point for me. As Russia steps up their efforts. It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance."

It depends on what you mean when you say 'compete,' They absolutely can and have successfully engaged and defeated Russian ground and air forces in Central and Western Ukraine, with little to no assistance. If by compete you mean retake the Donbass, I don't think they could. That said, I didn't think they would have any chance against the multitude of forces that Russia threw at them. They've been full of surprises from the start.

Additionally, I don't think the Russians have the military capacity to push back across the river. Western equipment helped push Russians out of some areas, but at present it's really resulted in parity between the two countries militarily.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-27 10:31 AM | Reply

"Especially since Luhansk, Donbas, and Crimea are now Russia."

Until they are Ukraine again.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-27 10:31 AM | Reply

They don't understand what they are asking for. An F-16 isn't going to be anymore survivable against an SA-21 or SA-23 than a MiG-29 is.

#32 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Would drives be used for offensive air operations while manned aircraft be used for defensive? Patrolling airspace over controlled territory hunting helicopters, providing close air support ect?

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2023-01-27 10:39 AM | Reply

*drones. Ducking phone.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2023-01-27 10:39 AM | Reply

@#26 ... Then let them battle it out if you have that much confidence. ...

@#47 ... It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance. ...

As I noted, while Ukraine did well in the early attack, overall Ukraine vs Russia is lop-sided.

Why shouldn't a sovereign country trying to protect itself against Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion get help from other countries?

Should countries just allow Pres Putin to do unprovoked invasions of sovereign countries just because Russia has more military might? Is that the gist of your comments?


#53 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 11:02 AM | Reply

Keep pushing our war equipment into Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

#54 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-01-27 11:13 AM | Reply

@#54 ... Keep pushing our war equipment into Ukraine. ...

The easy solution to Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine is for Pres Putin to stop his unprovoked invasion, pull his military out of Ukraine and return all occupied areas back to Ukraine.

See, simple.

And an easy way to save tens of thousands of lives.

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 11:23 AM | Reply

Who runs Ukraine? Obviously Israel since Zelenskyy is of the Hebrews. So the Christian people of Ukraine are dying by the score as their cities get annihilated over a little bit of land. And they have nothing to say about it. And we working poor in the USA comrades have to suffer with mass immigration, inflation unlike anything seen before, record number of crimes as now the police get arrested, and increasing joblessness and loss of benefits. Comrades! Whose side is Zelenskyy on? If you think he favors you, you are deluded.

#56 | Posted by wolfdog at 2023-01-27 11:47 AM | Reply

Biden's promise to send tanks delayed by lack of inventory: reports
Pentagon spokesperson confirms U.S. does not have 31 M1 Abrams tanks in stockpile.
archive.is

Oh no! You EU guys can go ahead though...

We'll send the tanks out right away, as soon as we get the student loan deal finished.
But the checks will go out tomorrow, if you only vote the way we want

#57 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 11:50 AM | Reply

archive.is

[double fingerpoint]

#58 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 11:54 AM | Reply

It's been a minute since anybody has been that openly anti-semitic here, regardless of M8's claims to the contrary.

#59 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-01-27 11:56 AM | Reply

@#56 ... people of Ukraine are dying by the score as their cities get annihilated over a little bit of land. ...

Ukraine is not a "little bit of land."

Pres Putin has stated that he wants all of Ukraine because Ukraine should not exist separately from Russia.

Do try harder.

#60 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 12:05 PM | Reply

@#57 ... Biden's promise to send tanks delayed by lack of inventory ...

The reason for the lack of inventory of M1 tanks that can be sent to Ukraine... the M1 is an advanced tank.

An inventory needs to be built up of a version of the M1 that can be sent to Ukraine.

M1 Abrams Tanks In U.S. Inventory Have Armor Too Secret To Send To Ukraine
www.thedrive.com

...M1 tanks will be heading to Ukraine, but they can't just be pulled from U.S. stocks due to their sensitive armor. ...

#61 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 12:08 PM | Reply

"Pres Putin has stated that he wants all of Ukraine because Ukraine should not exist separately from Russia."

Oi you got a source for that?

#62 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 12:08 PM | Reply

#61
We just don't have these tanks available in excess in our US stocks, which is why it is going to take months to transfer these M1A2 Abrams to Ukraine," Singh told the Post.

#63 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 12:17 PM | Reply

Even seasoned Kremlinologists were alarmed by Russian President Vladimir Putin's belligerent tone as he offered a monologue on why Ukraine has no right to exist.
www.nbcnews.com

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-27 12:18 PM | Reply

>germany's only demand to send leopards was that usa would send abrams
>usa backs out and germany still has to send tanks
BAMBOOZLED

#65 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 12:19 PM | Reply

@#61 ... Oi you got a source for that? ...

Putin's new Ukraine essay reveals imperial ambitions (July 2021)
www.atlanticcouncil.org

...Russian President Vladimir Putin has outlined the historical basis for his claims against Ukraine in a controversial new essay that has been likened in some quarters to a declaration of war. The 5,000-word article, entitled "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians," was published on July 12 and features many of talking points favored by Putin throughout the past seven years of undeclared war between Russia and Ukraine.

The Russian leader uses the essay to reiterate his frequently voiced conviction that Russians and Ukrainians are "one people," while blaming the current collapse in bilateral ties on foreign plots and anti-Russian conspiracies.

In one particularly ominous passage, he openly questions the legitimacy of Ukraine's borders and argues that much of modern-day Ukraine occupies historically Russian lands, before stating matter of factly, "Russia was robbed."...


#66 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 12:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#63 ... We just don't have these tanks available in excess in our US stocks ...

Exactly. The inventory of the tanks that can be sent to Ukraine is close to zero, if not zero.


Aside from that, there have been some concerns that Ukrainian bridges may not be able to handle the M1 tanks, and that the jet fuel needed for the M1 tanks may not be as readily available as the diesel fuel used by the German tanks.


#67 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 12:39 PM | Reply

@#65 ... usa backs out ...

The US didn't back out. Even your comment #57 admits that it didn't.

Try again.


#68 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 12:41 PM | Reply

#66 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Now there's a mic drop. Why conservatives are so eager to continuously give Putin the benefit of the doubt is beyond me.

#69 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-01-27 12:48 PM | Reply

But the checks will go out tomorrow, if you only vote the way we want

#57 | POSTED BY STONEHER

What irrelevant stupidity is this?

#70 | Posted by jpw at 2023-01-27 12:52 PM | Reply

#69 There is a difference between giving Putin the benefit of the doubt (I certainly don't) and expressing concerns over fighting a proxy war with Russia via Ukraine.

#71 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-01-27 12:57 PM | Reply

"Pres Putin has stated that he wants all of Ukraine because Ukraine should not exist separately from Russia."

""Pres Putin has stated that he wants all of Ukraine""

I heard the speech. He never said that. That's more reading into than reading out of.

The Russian leader uses the essay to reiterate his frequently voiced conviction that Russians and Ukrainians are "one people," while blaming the current collapse in bilateral ties on foreign plots and anti-Russian conspiracies.

He said they shouldn't be fighting, and the only reason they are is because of outside influence.

Modern Ukraine is a chimera, that can't be denied.
russia-insider.com

US facilitated the 'change of power' which started the argument-
Nuland first came into the spotlight in December 2013, when she endorsed nationalist protesters at Kiev's Maidan square by delivering them snacks. Two months later, in February 2014, a recording emerged of her discussing who should run Ukraine with the US ambassador in Kiev Geoffrey Pyatt. Nuland was famously dismissive of the EU and talked about then-VP Joe Biden helping "midwife this thing" with the UN.

Three weeks later, Ukrainian nationalists would overthrow the elected government and put in charge the very people Nuland had discussed with Pyatt.

#72 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 12:59 PM | Reply

You're making my point for me. As Russia steps up their efforts. It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance.

#47 | Posted by lfthndthrds

Kind of like america during the revolutionary war then?

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-27 01:04 PM | Reply

#69 There is a difference between giving Putin the benefit of the doubt (I certainly don't) and expressing concerns over fighting a proxy war with Russia via Ukraine.

#71 | Posted by BellRinger

When are you going to express any concern over russia fighting a proxy war against the USA via the republican party?

#74 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-01-27 01:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Long story short, they had been getting along until we took an interest

Particularly until Biden took a personal interest.

www.youtube.com

#75 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:09 PM | Reply

"Look, Dimitri, if it wasn't a friendly speech, you probably wouldn't be getting it"

#76 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:16 PM | Reply

@#75 ... Long story short, they had been getting along until we took an interest ...

Who are the "they" in your comment?


#77 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 01:23 PM | Reply

Or this one-

"I dunno, first he's the point man on Ukraine and China, then he's gettin' paid by Ukraine and China"

" An honest public servant can't become rich in politics" - Harry Truman

#78 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:23 PM | Reply

#77
Who were we talking about again?

Ukrainians and Russians were getting along

Do try and keep up! Thanks!

#79 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:25 PM | Reply

And show me that 'statment', or confess and repent

""Pres Putin has stated that he wants all of Ukraine""
(in case you forgot)

#80 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:30 PM | Reply

@#79 ... Ukrainians and Russians were getting along ...

I just wanted to be sure.

Really, Ukraine and Russia were getting along?


#81 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 01:32 PM | Reply

@#80 ... And show me that 'statment', ...

I posted a link.

#82 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 01:33 PM | Reply

#82
and, the link does not contain the statement.

#83 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 01:56 PM | Reply

...Oh LL, just nevermind. Go ahead with the 'unprovoked' narrative. And keep thinking that the tanks won't come equipped with US bodybags, despite the spiritual bankruptcy of wanting that to be the case.

Thase things won't maintain themselves, and it's not the type of technology that can be picked up on the fly. We'll have to send support guys, whether enlisted or contractors.

#84 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 02:05 PM | Reply

Good timeline here.
stillnessinthestorm.com

#85 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 02:11 PM | Reply

"Ukrainians and Russians were getting along"

Russia got along with Ukraine the way OJ got along with nicole.

#86 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-27 02:12 PM | Reply

@#83 ... the link does not contain the statement. ...

Yawn.

Of course it doesn't, that was my wording, not the articles. Do you really think Pres Putin would be that foolish to say those words overtly?

I was speaking of the essay's justification for Pres Putin to have his way with Ukraine, as he seems to be doing.

Indeed, Pres Putin has long doubted Ukraine's sovereignty.

Putin denies planning to revive the Russian empire after declaring that Ukraine is not a real country and sending troops there (Feb 2022)
www.businessinsider.com

...Putin said in a Monday speech: "Ukraine has never had its own authentic statehood. There has never been a sustainable statehood in Ukraine."

He argued that Ukraine was a creation of the Soviet Union under Vladimir Lenin, its first leader, despite extensive evidence of a distinctive Ukrainian culture before that.

Putin also made a claim that Ukraine was a part of Russia's historic territory....



#87 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 02:14 PM | Reply

@#84 ... Go ahead with the 'unprovoked' narrative. ...

I will because Pres Putin's invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked.

Nothing in your comments, while they kick up some dust, has indicated to the contrary.

And the sad part of it for Pres Putin is that his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine has has other effects that run counter to his apparent goals. For starters, NATO and the EU are both more united and stronger since the unprovoked invasion. The West's economic ties with Russia have been significantly diminished....


#88 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-27 02:27 PM | Reply

"Would drives be used for offensive air operations while manned aircraft be used for defensive? Patrolling airspace over controlled territory hunting helicopters, providing close air support ect?".

The Russians have very long-range surface to air missile systems that keep UKR jets from operating freely near the front lines. There are mitigation techniques you can use, but it's very dangerous.

And the types of missiles being employed by the Ukrainians are not suitable against cruise missiles. Fortunately, the UKR SAM operators are pretty good. Good enough to keep the Soviets at bay.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-27 02:44 PM | Reply

"It's clear Ukraine can't compete without outside assistance."

In 1942, it was the Soviets who couldn't compete against their adversary.

We helped them then too.

#90 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-27 02:54 PM | Reply

Sorry we don't have 31 tanks
twitter.com

#91 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-27 02:56 PM | Reply

"We just don't have these tanks available in excess in our US stocks, which is why it is going to take months to transfer these M1A2 Abrams to Ukraine," Singh told the Post."

We actually do.

The US has ~4000 tanks in storage.

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2023-01-27 02:56 PM | Reply

@91 sorry we don't read Russian

#93 | Posted by Tor at 2023-01-27 04:09 PM | Reply

Translate Tweet
link right there

Translated from Polish by

,,,sorry we don't read Russian...
What a maroonion

#94 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-28 01:10 PM | Reply

Nie zapomnij klikn reklamy, kretynie

#95 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-28 01:12 PM | Reply

"An inventory needs to be built up of a version of the M1 that can be sent to Ukraine."

I hope they can be reconfigured to run on diesel fuel quickly but that is the beauty of NATO Ukraine will be getting German Leopard tanks right away. Putin is pooping his pants again. When we give Ukraine fighter/bomber jets Russia will learn how it feels to be attacked. When their cities aren't safe pressure will build to withdraw from Ukraine;

#96 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-29 04:11 PM | Reply

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