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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, January 31, 2023

A newly-formed conservative group is launching a brazen plan to remake Michigan public schools -- using aggressive legal action to effectively mandate the erasure of LGBTQ people.

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Using a long held practice that allows parents to opt their children out of sex education classes, the Great Schools Initiative (GSI) has created their own opt out-form:


In addition to sex education classes, the GSI form demands students are exempted from "OTHER Sex Education Not Approved by the district Board of Education," which the group calls "rogue sex ed." Under the guise of "rogue sex ed," the GSI form targets anything during the school day that acknowledges the existence of LGBTQ people.

Among other things, parents who sign the GSI form, demand their children are not exposed to:

Teachers, staff, or administrators, displaying or distributing sexuality/gender paraphernalia like LGBTQ+ flags, or gay pride stickers

Teaching, lessons, or discussions in gender/sexuality social justice or gender/sexuality activism

Use, instruction, discussion, or teaching of gender-neutral bathrooms

Access to books/materials in the classroom libraries with references to non-biological gender identities or storylines containing any type of non-heterosexual relationships, and/or explicit sexual activities of any kind

Schoolwide activities that teach, discuss, or promote concepts about gender or sexual identities, gender or sexual expression, or other gender concepts such as LGBTQ+ Pride Week

In other words, GSI is redefining "sex education" to include a teacher wearing a rainbow pin, teaching about the women's suffrage movement, the availability of a gender-neutral bathroom, any book with LGBTQ characters, and any acknowledgment of LGBTQ pride week.

GSI is explicit about its goals. During a January 19 Zoom meeting, Nathan Pawl, one of GSI's co-founders, said the group aimed to have "20, 30, 50, or 100 parents per school" start "dropping off the opt-out forms" in the month of February. According to Paul, this strategy will "be too much for [schools] to handle." It won't be possible to "pick on one kid any longer." To comply with GSI's opt-out form, Pawl says, the only option would be "to transform our schools."

#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-01-31 09:07 AM | Reply

"Among other things, parents who sign the GSI form, demand their children are not exposed to:
Teachers, staff, or administrators, displaying or distributing sexuality/gender paraphernalia like LGBTQ+ flags, or gay pride stickers"

^
This is a prior restraint on freedom of expression.

They are about to lose their ---- over Black History Month, right?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-31 09:52 AM | Reply

I have always supported an assh**e free environment for my kids but these days that is getting harder and harder to find. The people behind garbage like that are simply assh**es! The world would bw better off without them in it. I just can'y quietly sit by while those doyche bags spread their hate anf intollerence. Let's be honest here, MAGA scum brought you this level of hate. MAGA = NAZI!

#3 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-31 10:56 AM | Reply

by law must "stress that abstinence from sex is a responsible and effective method of preventing unplanned or out-of-wedlock pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease and is a positive lifestyle for unmarried young people."

^
What's the success rate for abstinence-only education when it comes to preventing unplanned pregnancies and STDs?
Let's put it this way: Only Republicans could possibly ever support this kind of retrograde, reactionary policy.

Statistics About Abstinence Only Sex Education healthresearchfunding.org
1. A 2007 federal study on abstinence education found that these programs had no impacts on the rate of teen sexual abstinence.
2. The United States leads the world in teen pregnancy rates and teen birth rates. Compared to France, the US numbers are more than tripled.
3. Teens in states that prescribe more abstinence education are actually more likely to become pregnant.
4. Only 13% of teens in the United States have had sex by the age of 15.
5. By the age of 19, 70% of teens have engaged in sexual intercourse at least once.
6. 82% of the teen pregnancies that occur every year are unintended and 59% of them end in a successful birth.
7. Every year, roughly nine million new STIs occur among teens and young adults in the United States.
8. 1 in 4 teens in the US receives information about abstinence without receiving any information or instructions about birth control.
9. Among teens aged 18"19, 41% report that they know little or nothing about condoms.
10. 75% say they know little or nothing about the contraceptive pill.
11. Fewer male teens [62%] have received instruction about contraception than girls [70%].
12. About 33% of teens have not received any formal instruction on any forms of contraception.
13. The percentage of teens that have received abstinence instructions: 84%. Only HIV awareness and STI awareness are ranked higher.
14. In 2006, 87% of US public and private high schools taught abstinence as the most effective method to avoid pregnancy.
15. Girls are more likely than boys to talk with their parents about birth control or how to tell someone that they don't want to have sex.
16. More than one-third of online websites that teens commonly use for reference information have inaccurate data about abortion and 46% have inaccurate information about contraception.
17. 37 states require that sex education include abstinence. Of these states, 26 of them require that abstinence be stressed more than any other form of sexual education.
18. Only 13 states require that the information provided in a sex education class be medically accurate and contain verifiable facts.
19. Only 2 programs that teach abstinence-only were found to be medically and factually correct.
20. $50 million of US taxpayer money is made available annually for grants to the states to promote sexual abstinence outside of marriage.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-31 11:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

CHILD AND ADOLESCENT HEALTH, HEALTHCARE POLICY, MATERNAL AND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH Aug. 22 2017
Abstinence-Only Education Is a Failure
www.publichealth.columbia.edu

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-31 11:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This new extreme, radical sex education that Liberals want is fine, except when they try to push it on people without any kind of vetting first. That's been the entire problem. Schools teach something for a hundred years, a party comes in and changes it drastically without any checks and balances, and then wonder why people complain.

The other hilarious part of this is that Liberals continue to do EXACTLY what they claim Cons do. Someone recently questioned Maher about reading the 1619 project before debating about it because knowing what is taught in it is obviously important in discussing it. Yet, apparently Libs don't know what has always been taught in sex ed as if they never even went through the class. Sex ed is about anatomy, not about psychology. In sex ed, they teach what a person with a penis or vagina should know about their bodies. And they also teach the sexual functions of those reproductive systems. They never discussed what gender a person is. If two people with a penis want to hook up, great for them...but sex ed is about their anatomy, it has nothing to do with their identity. All it does is teach them what their repro system is for, how it works, and how to be safe (or at least tries to teach safety). If they want to create a new class that deals with identity, great. If they want to add it into the curriculum of sex ed, great. But don't just start adding in things without vetting it. That's now how society works. That's how dictatorships, tyranny, etc. work. That's also called extreme. Wanting something to stay the way it has always been is not extreme in any way. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just isn't extreme.

#7 | Posted by humtake at 2023-01-31 12:03 PM | Reply

Statistically a sound idea, since
Those who practice homosexual acts are at least 12 times more apt to molest a child sexually,
www.ojp.gov
#6 | POSTED BY STONEHER

Even if this is true (and I find it questionable since they provide no source for their conclusions, (in 1985)), it does not justify blanket restrictions upon LGBTQ people or literature. Child molesters (as criminals) should be prosecuted on an individual basis.

#8 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2023-01-31 12:27 PM | Reply

"www.ojp.gov"

From almost 40 years ago.

Certainly if this were currently true, you could've found OJP stuff from this millennium.

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-01-31 12:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#6 LOL,

Try citing a study from this century.

What were the dates of the 19 studies this review purports to summarize?

Who did those studies? For what purpose? What methodologies where used?

How did this study summarize results resulting from 19 different sets of methodologies?

How does the change in self-reported sexuality choice to %7 non-hetero at the current time impact the result of this study which was based on 4% non-hetero?

What percentage of males that rape boys consider themselves to be gay vice straight?

What percentage of males that rape girls consider themselves to be gay vice straight?

What percentage of females rape either boys or girls and are they gay or straight?

Even if this study was perfect, there seems to be several unstated conclusions:
Stated:
Non-hetero males are more likely to rape boys.
Non-hetero male teachers are much more (90 - 100% more likely) to rape boys.

Unstated:
Females are much more safe for both boys and girls.
Hetero males are much more likely to rape girls than non-hetero males.
Hetero male teachers are more likely to rape girls than non-hetero male teachers.

Basically, Women are less likely to commit rape than Men and Hetero Men are more likely to rape girls/women while Non-hetero males are more likely to rape boys/men. So to solve the problem of sex with children, all you need to do is to prevent all men from ever interacting with children....Its the only way to be sure and protect the children.

#10 | Posted by Killjoy at 2023-01-31 12:43 PM | Reply

What the ufck is wrong with cancervaturds?

all you need to do is to prevent all men from ever interacting with children.

www.zimbio.com

#11 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-01-31 01:01 PM | Reply

"www.zimbio.com"

#7 is a dead ringer for Elise Stephanik. Who knew?

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-01-31 01:18 PM | Reply

Florida's doing all they can to erase LGBQT from existence. Push everyone back into the closet. All in the name of protecting children. But ask Bellringer and that's not what's happening at all.

I'm so sick of these f**ktards.

#13 | Posted by YAV at 2023-01-31 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Nixon,

Sorry, that was sarcasm. Dropped the "/s", my bad. It is an illustration of the problem with drawing conclusions from flawed studies.

For the record, I do not think that all men are evil and that all women are good...And my husband would be shocked to find out I am a conservative, you must never tell him. ;P

#14 | Posted by Killjoy at 2023-01-31 01:26 PM | Reply

"I just can'y quietly sit by while those doyche bags spread their hate anf intollerence."

Let me start out by telling you you're one of my favorite posters. Nobody here takes a kick to the metaphorical nads like you and keeps on going. That said...

Sure, for now, you'll complain. Just wait until we're told that we have to support a Democratic candidate who still believes that reaching across the aisle with these people is morally superior to consistently calling them out and not cooperating with them. You'll fall in line like you always do and will pretend like this version of you never existed.

#15 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-01-31 01:27 PM | Reply

"Florida's doing all they can to erase LGBQT from existence. Push everyone back into the closet. All in the name of protecting children. But ask Bellringer and that's not what's happening at all."

And were they to succeed they would bamktupt Florida's tpurosm economy. What really is Florida? It's lots of things but the places tourists want to visit are all gay enclaves, South Neacy? Orlando? Fort Lauderdale? Key West? Why does Adolph Desantis want to bankupt Florida?

#16 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-31 01:40 PM | Reply

" South Neacy" SB South Beach

#17 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-31 01:42 PM | Reply

But don't just start adding in things without vetting it. That's now how society works. That's how dictatorships, tyranny, etc. work. That's also called extreme. Wanting something to stay the way it has always been is not extreme in any way. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just isn't extreme.

#7 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

So... schools should not acknowledge or teach about who the CURRENT President of the United States is? Or should not teach about or acknowledge current legislation?

Because those things have not been vetted?

This is why conservatives are so ignorant. Why the conservative states are the sh*thole states. Because they ban teaching the things in school that are actually relevant to everyday life.

I want my kids to be challenged in school, to learn about the world around them and to think critically about it (to ask questions about what they are told). But conservatives seem to want to just teach children to whatever is politically correct, and ban anything that could challenge them or make the little snowflakes (or their snowflake parents) feel "uncomfortable".

#18 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2023-01-31 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#15 At this time, supporting any democrat, even the extreme few, is better than supporting any republican, even the most moderate. Republican's have shown that they can not be trusted to protect the Republic against their own leaders. The party has become a bunch of old men screaming at the world to get off their lawn.

The combination of toxic white supremacy and an evangelical christianity that presumes to shape the world in order to force the apocalypse on their schedule, is a much greater threat to my liberty than gays getting equal treatment under the law or trans reading stories to children whose parents chose to be there.

#19 | Posted by Killjoy at 2023-01-31 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"But don't just start adding in things without vetting it. That's now how society works."

^
That's exactly how Freedom of Speech works.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-31 01:54 PM | Reply

"Florida's doing all they can to erase LGBQT from existence. Push everyone back into the closet. All in the name of protecting children."

The whole point of my posting this thread along with this one about similar tactics being employed in PA (drudge.com) is draw attention to the fact that these actions aren't just happening in Florida or in red states in general. This is the new cultural war that DeSantis is hoping to harness and ride all the way to the WH.

#21 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-01-31 02:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#21

Riding waves of misinformation and hatred is what Republicans do best.

#22 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2023-01-31 02:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So when the Daddy of the unplanned pregnancy is Daddy or Uncle Biff then these anti-abortion psychos who try to cram their medieval religion down our throats should be prepared to support that child or else STFU! Herschel Walker did America a favor by denonstrating how dishonest and hypocritical these Evangelical busy-body assh***s are.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2023-01-31 04:45 PM | Reply

"Wanting something to stay the way it has always been is not extreme in any way."

Bring back slavery! Get rid of Women's Suffrage! And don't get me started about the Chinese! Wah Wah Wah!

#24 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-01-31 05:49 PM | Reply

Wanting something to stay the way it has always been is not extreme in any way.
#7 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

^
Only when you're a small child and you are confused and upset that some objects exhibit object permanence and some objects are mutable.
When you grow up you're supposed to know, how did Sarah Palin put it?
"Only dead fish go with the flow."

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-01-31 05:54 PM | Reply

What's the success rate for abstinence-only education when it comes to preventing unplanned pregnancies and STDs?
Let's put it this way: Only Republicans could possibly ever support this kind of retrograde, reactionary policy.

#4 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-01-31 11:05 AM | FLAG:

If you saw the theater that it produces here, it's just so... good? I'm not sure good is the right word. Surreal maybe.

My kids school districting is updating their policies. First year of middile school is abstinence only, second year begins the rest of sex education. They already got the your-body-is-changing videos in elementary unless their parent specifically opted them out. Not a big deal, these kids are 11 when they start middle and it's a reasonably paced progression.

That doesn't stop the 3 Karens coming to the meeting. An hour early to stand outside mad arguing with the school officer. Eventually, it begins. One is screaming that it has to be all abstinence only. One is there just to scream? Nobody knows what point she was making. The third, is screaming you can't teach abstinence only because what about all the middle school 11 year olds that are sexually active? wtf?

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-02-01 07:55 AM | Reply

"The third, is screaming you can't teach abstinence only because what about all the middle school 11 year olds that are sexually active?"

What are they gonna do? Pretend those 11 year olds don't exist, from behind a wall of moral superiority.

#27 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-02-01 09:26 AM | Reply

"The third, is screaming you can't teach abstinence only because what about all the middle school 11 year olds that are sexually active? wtf?"

^
Thats the one you should be taking home and banging.
That's t f.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 10:38 AM | Reply

I'm not sure if Eberly will read this.

But yesterday when he was asking about what the end game is for conservatives (like he doesn't know), this is it.

Forcing homosexual people back into the shadows.

It's just blind hate. Which is all republicans have anymore. Their hate.

It's all they campaign on. They're mutual hate for black people, immigrants, homosexuals and transgenders.

Not to mention attacking anything progressive.

#29 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-02-01 11:34 AM | Reply

"This is the new cultural war that DeSantis is hoping to harness and ride all the way to the WH."

Yep, this is the newest iteration of the culture war. Trump knows it too:

Trump issues another education position: "As part of our new credentialing body for teachers, we will promote positive education about the nuclear family, the role of mothers & fathers, and celebrating rather than erasing the things that make men & women different & unique."

twitter.com

#30 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 11:40 AM | Reply

#18 what a disingenuous point.

The current curriculum in say, social studies or civics, would have in it to cover current political events. Covering your weak example of talking about the current president. What the current curriculum for sex ed doesn't have, as was pointed out in the post you were trying to counter is it doesn't contain gender studies.

Snoofy, really, what teachers cover in the curriculum is under free speech? So my kids math teacher could just stand up and start spouting out any old non-sense and you'd say that's what the math class is now because of free speech. Give me a break.

#31 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 11:51 AM | Reply

"Snoofy, really, what teachers cover in the curriculum is under free speech?"

^
When teachers aren't free to speak their mind about things in the curriculum, that's a free speech issue.
ESPECIALLY because their employer is the government. At a private school, they would have fewer rights.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 11:57 AM | Reply

"I'm not sure if Eberly will read this."

I did.

I didn't realize that having the freedom to opt out of sex education means erasing homosexuals from existence.

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 12:21 PM | Reply

#32 but that's not what you said. Speaking out about the curriculum, and just deciding to insert what you want into the curriculum are not the same thing.

Snoofy pulling the Bill Burr on how they argue... when they're right they stay on point, but when they're wrong rogue.

Snoofy going way rogue there... Back to what you actually said. Do you actually think teachers injecting whatever they want into the curriculum is covered by free speech?

#34 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 12:26 PM | Reply

"I did.
I didn't realize that having the freedom to opt out of sex education means erasing homosexuals from existence."

Maybe you skipped over this part of the article:

In other words, GSI is redefining "sex education" to include a teacher wearing a rainbow pin, teaching about the women's suffrage movement, the availability of a gender-neutral bathroom, any book with LGBTQ characters, and any acknowledgment of LGBTQ pride week.

Notably, for many of these items, it is impossible for a school to exclude individual students. Either the school acknowledges LGBTQ pride week, or it does not. The school either has a gender-neutral bathroom, or it does not. The intent is not for parents to exercise control over their children. It is to align the entire school with a reactionary political agenda.

GSI is explicit about its goals. During a January 19 Zoom meeting, Nathan Pawl, one of GSI's co-founders, said the group aimed to have "20, 30, 50, or 100 parents per school" start "dropping off the opt-out forms" in the month of February. According to Paul, this strategy will "be too much for [schools] to handle." It won't be possible to "pick on one kid any longer." To comply with GSI's opt-out form, Pawl says, the only option would be "to transform our schools."


#35 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 12:28 PM | Reply

Do you actually think teachers injecting whatever they want into the curriculum is covered by free speech?

#34 | POSTED BY KWRX25

What the teachers I know inject into the curriculum makes the curriculum useful as education.

QANON is an evil conspiracy. Public school teachers aren't.

#36 | Posted by Zed at 2023-02-01 12:30 PM | Reply

35

I saw it. Let's see how many opt out forms they get.

If it's any number of consequence, I'm sure it will be posted and discussed here.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 12:32 PM | Reply

#37 All it may take is one or two:

So GSI, with legal support from the far-right Thomas More Society, plans to overwhelm Michigan schools with litigation. During an October 26, 2022, meeting at Mother of God Chaldean Catholic Church in Southfield, Michigan, the Thomas More Society's Erick Kaardal said they would pursue "asymmetrical lawfare" to overwhelm public schools. According to Pawl, the Thomas More Society is funding the planned litigation.

According to Kaardal, the Thomas More Society considered executing the "opt-out" strategy in numerous states. The group, however, determined that Michigan "was the best place to do this." Under Michigan law, if a parent believes a school did not abide by the sexual education opt-out, the parent can file "a complaint with the superintendent ... of the district ... in which the pupil is enrolled." Within 30 days of receiving the complaint, the district must "provide a written report of his or her findings to the parent or legal guardian who filed the complaint." If any violations are found, the district is required to take "corrective action" within 30 days after the report is issued.

Kaardal noted that these administrative complaints "are cheap" and don't require "a lot of legal resources." In addition to burdening the schools with a flood of litigation, each complaint is a "messaging" vehicle and provides "a platform for us to discuss the issues."

#38 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 12:37 PM | Reply

So, the better thing to do is to ban parents from the opportunity to opt out of something like sex ed or some recognition or celebration of some sort?

I don't have any different opinion than you have of some parent who believes gayness will rub off on their kid if they are present when a gay pride flag is displayed or something like that happens.

Groups like this represent the dumbest dumbest people alive.

I'm just curious how big the club is.

Clown believes the group is the size of the GOP. Everybody is a gay hating person who votes "R" on election day.

Every victim believes THEY are the reason for everything.

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 12:37 PM | Reply

"Under Michigan law, if a parent believes a school did not abide by the sexual education opt-out, the parent can file "a complaint with the superintendent ... of the district ... in which the pupil is enrolled." Within 30 days of receiving the complaint, the district must "provide a written report of his or her findings to the parent or legal guardian who filed the complaint." If any violations are found, the district is required to take "corrective action" within 30 days after the report is issued."

How is that "litigation"?

To me, it looks like just being a pain in the --- with complaints and follow ups.

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 12:43 PM | Reply

"So, the better thing to do is to ban parents from the opportunity to opt out of something like sex ed or some recognition or celebration of some sort?"

No, the ability to opt out is legitimate, but as was discussed in previous threads about obscenity laws as they relate to minors, many school boards and teachers themselves may decide to avoid the hassle and remove anything that some parent could conceivably protest.

#41 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 12:44 PM | Reply

How is that "litigation"?
To me, it looks like just being a pain in the --- with complaints and follow ups.

Apparently, it's the first step toward litigation:

If a parent is not satisfied with the decision of the school district, the complaint can be appealed to the "intermediate district in which the district is located." (In Michigan, an intermediate school district helps manage multiple local school districts.) Once the appeal is filed, the intermediate district must file another report within 30 days. If that isn't satisfactory, a parent can appeal to the state Department of Education, which has 90 days to issue a report. In addition to corrective action, the Department of Education is empowered to withhold up to 1% of a school district's state funding. And if the Department of Education doesn't side with the parent, the complaint can be appealed to Michigan courts.

#42 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 12:46 PM | Reply

The Long March Through The Public Schools has only just begun!

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 12:48 PM | Reply

Groups like this represent the dumbest dumbest people alive.
I'm just curious how big the club is.
Clown believes the group is the size of the GOP. Everybody is a gay hating person who votes "R" on election day.
Every victim believes THEY are the reason for everything.
#39 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I see no problem putting every Trump voter in the club.
Do you have a problem with that?
If so, why?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 12:49 PM | Reply

"Everybody is a gay hating person who votes "R" on election day."

Either a hater or wholly indifferent to what gay people go through, so a collaborator. There really are no other options there.

#45 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-02-01 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks Gal. Awesome responses.

It boils down to how serious the Michigan state legislature and Governor take these loons.

And ultimately the courts should this ever make it that far.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 12:56 PM | Reply

45

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I see that we are progressing as a country on the issue of gay rights, same sex marriage, etc.

not regressing. Despite the attempts of opportunists to portray it otherwise to frighten people.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Whatever helps you sleep at night."

What I posted is true by definition. Pretend otherwise if it helps you sleep at night I suppose.

#48 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-02-01 01:05 PM | Reply

"I see that we are progressing as a country on the issue of gay rights, same sex marriage, etc."

^
All progress has faced significant headwinds from the GOP.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 01:10 PM | Reply

The last good thing the GOP did for gay people was when Barbara Bush held a baby with AIDS.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 01:10 PM | Reply

"What I posted is true by definition."

By that same standard, anybody who voted for Hillary Clinton for Senator or any other democrat who voted in support for the Iraq war.......supported the iraq war and blood is on their hands.

Now, that's not why anybody voted for her or anyone else. There are dozens of other issues that mattered and at the end of the day, you have the options on your ballot and that's it.

One could be a little more nuanced and look at the big picture and recognize it's not all about a single issue.

But why do that when you get the joys of calling someone a hater as though that advances anything.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:12 PM | Reply

"I see that we are progressing as a country on the issue of gay rights, same sex marriage, etc.
not regressing. Despite the attempts of opportunists to portray it otherwise to frighten people."

In order to maintain and advance that progress, people in this country need to wake up and start participating in their local and state elections. Saw this reminder on Twitter today:

Are we getting the message yet? That you can't just wake up every four years and try to remember if you are even still registered to vote for a president. You have to vote for school boards, councilors or selectmen, mayors, state reps ...
twitter.com

#52 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:13 PM | Reply

"By that same standard, anybody who voted for Hillary Clinton for Senator or any other democrat who voted in support for the Iraq war.......supported the iraq war and blood is on their hands."

I agree. The difference being I'm willing to admit my culpability.

#53 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-02-01 01:15 PM | Reply

"Are we getting the message yet? That you can't just wake up every four years and try to remember if you are even still registered to vote for a president. You have to vote for school boards, councilors or selectmen, mayors, state reps ..."

You are dead on right.

It's as if hardly anybody here knows what in the hell is going on in their respective communities.

All they blather on about is how whomever lives at 1600 Penn is everything and nothing else matters.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:16 PM | Reply

"Now, that's not why anybody voted for her or anyone else."

And the difference here is quite obvious:
Being anti-gay and anti-trans is an issue that Republicans run on.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 01:16 PM | Reply

-I'm willing to admit my culpability.

While it's big of you to raise your hand and accept fault, you're never someone who's blamed for events like the Iraq War.

I certainly see the bigger picture and you're not to blame for anything.

#56 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:19 PM | Reply

#54 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You seriously want to discuss who was voted into the San Diego County Board of Education? These topics are not brought up here because those topics are regional, nobody gives a chit. POTUS, congress, anything federal affects us all.

Regional chit doesn't affect you and I the same. Hence, we don't discuss that stuff here unless it could potentially impact everyone.

#57 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-02-01 01:21 PM | Reply

"It's as if hardly anybody here knows what in the hell is going on in their respective communities."

I'm as guilty as anyone on that. Or was. I told the story on here a while back of how it came to my attention that several people supported by these anti-gay, anti-woke, pro-book banning types were running for my local school board. Both the Democratic and Republican parties in the county united in a bi-partisan (or nonpartisan) push to keep them from getting elected. I made it a point to vote in that election. Fortunately, all the anti-woke folks were defeated. This time. I'm sure they'll try again.

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:25 PM | Reply

-You seriously want to discuss who was voted into the San Diego County Board of Education?

Nope, I want to acknowledge how out of touch you are if you live in San Diego and haven't a clue as to who is running for that board of education while pissing and moaning about the Federal department of education or what is being attempted by some group of bible thumpers in Michigan as to what's really going on.

If you can't be bothered to know what the hell is going on in your backyard, try to understand why nobody gives a crap what you think about your opinion that our society is going to ---- because a group of anti gay zealots in Michigan are trying something.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:27 PM | Reply

#59 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Well that 'if' doesn't apply to me. And why you think it applies to anyone else here without asking them is truly curious.

Who is it that you are referring to? Be specific. Stop behaving like JEFF.

#60 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-02-01 01:30 PM | Reply

"what is being attempted by some group of bible thumpers in Michigan as to what's really going on."

I just want to point out that some of these groups, like the one I was referring in my local community, are in all 50 states. Dammit. Can't think of the name of the group. I think it might have mothers or moms in the title. They were endorsed by Steve Bannon. In that way, what is a local problem is also a country-wide problem.

#61 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Well that 'if' doesn't apply to me.

Keep selling that, Rstyswallows.

#62 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:34 PM | Reply

Moms for Liberty, that's it.

Right-Wing School Board Members Are Making Their Presence Felt

In 2022, right wing groups continued their concerted effort to commandeer school board seats across the country. While results of these efforts were mixed, some boards are now seeing radical moves by new majorities.

Moms for Liberty co-founder Tiffany Justice was plain enough when she appeared on Steve Bannon's show:

www.forbes.com

#63 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Stop behaving like JEFF.

Oh, what's the bigger problem here?

Me behaving like Jeff?

Or you behaving like Rsty?

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:37 PM | Reply

School Board Elections--The Epicenter for Political Control

When we reflect on America's culture wars in public schools, when we become aware that school board members and their families have received death threats, how could it be any other way that when Steve Bannon said, "The path to save the nation is very simple--it's going to go through the school boards," he was echoing what Christian Right leader Ralph Reed said in 1996, "I would rather have a thousand school board members than a president and no school board members."

Democracy is on the ballot in every election now. Remember to vote on November 8th " all the way down ballot.

parents4publicschools.org

#65 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:38 PM | Reply

Thanks again for the info, Gal.

Thank goodness we have mediums like this which broadcast the existence of such groups and more people are aware of their existence and their larger goals.

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:39 PM | Reply

I'm curious how many posters here have ever even attended a school board meeting in their community......in their life.

I'll bet the number is insanely low.

Now, that's not an attack on someone who hasn't attended, been involved/informed, hell..even ran for or sat on a school board.

Unless they come here and blog about how awful this is and how dangerous these people are.

If you really believed that then you'd rolled up your sleeves and gotten involved a long -------- time ago.

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 01:43 PM | Reply

These folks are tenacious, organized, well funded, and they are coming for a school board near you. And in some states, they have the full backing of state politicians like DeSantis, who have aspirations for higher political office. That's the through line for the micro to the macro discussions:

Mothers Fuelling the School-Board Wars

Moms for Liberty claims that teachers are indoctrinating students with dangerous ideologies. But is the group's aim protecting kids"or scaring parents?

The group Moms for Liberty accuses teachers of using books to indoctrinate kids about critical race theory and gender fluidity.

www.newyorker.com

#68 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:43 PM | Reply

"If you really believed that then you'd rolled up your sleeves and gotten involved a long -------- time ago."

Yes, people should have gotten involved long ago. But the truth is, some of these rightwing activists have only become interested/involved on the local level in the past few years themselves.

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:46 PM | Reply

"Thank goodness we have mediums like this which broadcast the existence of such groups and more people are aware of their existence and their larger goals."

Yes.

#70 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 01:49 PM | Reply

"Moms for Liberty"

And by Liberty, they mean the liberty for everyone else to kowtow to their demands.

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-02-01 01:50 PM | Reply

Thank goodness we have mediums like this which broadcast the existence of such groups and more people are aware of their existence and their larger goals.
#66 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You mean you weren't aware of their operations in your local community?
Hey, we believe you!

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 01:58 PM | Reply

#36 just more being disingenuous.

Of course what teachers bring to their presentation of the curriculum is what makes it good. A perfectly astute observation that is no where near the point.

If the curriculum is to read and discuss where the red fern grows, and one teacher does all the dog and '---- noises... one would say they enhanced the curriculum and made covering that book fun.

If the teacher said to heck with this, I'm reading Mein Kampf... that's not free speech. They didn't bring anything to the curriculum, they completely added something that wasn't in the curriculum... Snoofy is claiming that's free speech, and thats BS.

#73 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 01:59 PM | Reply

Do you actually think teachers injecting whatever they want into the curriculum is covered by free speech?
#34 | POSTED BY KWRX25

What would you call it when THE GOVERNMENT passes a law that states they can't talk about stuff?
I'd call that a First Amendment issue.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 02:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

KWRX would be watching gay porn with his students.

#75 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-02-01 02:23 PM | Reply

All that talk about Michigan, and I'd like to once again bring Florida in to this. Especially since DeSantis is doing all he can to bring his beliefs to the entire U.S.

In Florida it only takes one "Mom's for Liberty" type to sue a teacher.
The mere threat of being sued makes almost every teacher in Florida cower.
This is the lowest denominator effectively dictating policy.

So the teachers cover and closed down their classroom libraries because "making unvetted books available could lead to felony prosecution."
www.heraldtribune.com

"Provide for the regular removal or discontinuance of books based on factors specified in the bill, including those removed because of an objection by a parent or resident of the county." www.flsenate.gov

The point being this isn't about Michigan, it's not about Florida, it is about the GOP pushing this on everyone, all using kids as human shields. Got help a kid if he wears a mask around DeSantis - even if that child is immunocompromised, or goes home to a parent that is undergoing chemo.

#76 | Posted by YAV at 2023-02-01 02:38 PM | Reply

"The point being this isn't about Michigan, it's not about Florida, it is about the GOP pushing this on everyone, all using kids as human shields. "

FL, MI, PA, Iowa, etc. It's a coordinated 50 state GOP effort, and it ranges from local school boards all the way up to presidential candidates. Here is an example from Virginia:

Sawicky also reports that the DeSantis-branded curricular offensive is out in full force in his state [VA], with talk of book burning at school board meetings and bans in Madison County of Stephen King, Toni Morrison, and Anne Rice. "But the thing I worry about more," he says, "is opening the door to parents scrutinizing what goes on in classrooms and creating an environment where teachers are afraid to deal with stuff like race." A recent RAND corporation poll of 8,000 teachers found that a quarter of them admitted to limiting classroom discussions of race and gender for fear of parental and political reprisals.

These kinds of crackdowns are critical in district-level political confrontations, Sawicky notes, because education controversies are a key fulcrum in the white suburban enclaves that strategists from both major parties covet. "For suburbanites, the most intimate relationship people have with the public sector is the public school. They don't worry so much about trash pickup, water, or electricity. People move here and pay a lot for real estate because of the schools"and what happens with suburbs and schools has a bigger strategic national importance."

www.thenation.com

#77 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-02-01 03:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But the truth is, some of these rightwing activists have only become interested/involved on the local level in the past few years themselves."

I don't know how old you are, but my guess is that your local school board has been arguing about "indoctrination" since before you were born.

Atheists
Communists
Jews
Nazis
Racists

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-01 03:24 PM | Reply

#75... yeah that's a logical leap.

Especially given the current discussion... in about 6mo you'll be calling me a bigot for being against them showing gay porn in schools.

#79 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 04:46 PM | Reply

We'll be calling you something else entirely.

#80 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-02-01 04:58 PM | Reply

#80 coming from you, I'm sure it will be childish and improperly applied.

#81 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 05:20 PM | Reply

Your distrust in fellow human beings is unfortunate and the main reason you're a conservative.

Only in your sick mind are teachers doing anything which requires laws to be passed stripping them of their rights.

#82 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-02-01 05:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't know how old you are, but my guess is that your local school board has been arguing about "indoctrination" since before you were born."

Ah yes.

It's the "climate has always changed" retreat, rather than discuss the current events of what Republicans are doing to public schools.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 05:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

While we're at it,

Are you KWRX25 an "Arm The Teachers" guy?

Arm The (Pedophile) Teachers.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-02-01 05:33 PM | Reply

#84 I'm not an arm the teachers guy, but I don't think I'd be opposed to letting those with a LTC carry in school if they chose. I think it would need a lot thought, rules, etc... And if not done right I'd be opposed to it.

At the end of the day though, It might cause someone to think twice if they thought they might meet resistance and not a guaranteed soft target.

That's probably naive though, as I think that the majority of these people are mentally ill, and rational thought isn't a part of their thinking.

#85 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 08:05 PM | Reply

#82 the discussion had wandered way away from the original story in the headline. I most likely do not agree with the law, my comments were related to the wandered discussion.

#86 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-01 08:08 PM | Reply

NOBODY CARES, NOBODY CARES
YOU ARE A DOUCHE, YOU ARE A DOUCHE.

#87 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-02-01 08:20 PM | Reply

#87 Is that your morning in the mirror affirmation?

It seems to be working, you do come off as a raging douche. Keep up the good work.

#88 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-02 10:18 AM | Reply

-Your distrust in fellow human beings is unfortunate and the main reason you're a conservative.

Hold on...you don't trust half this country.

That's on you.

Now, its bad someone else lacks trust....but it's fine for you to struggle with it?

#89 | Posted by eberly at 2023-02-02 10:27 AM | Reply

I never said I didn't trust anyone... that's someone else's fever dream

#90 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2023-02-02 10:46 AM | Reply

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