"They should've gotten the same sentence as the woman in Texas who was told by an election worker she could vote.

I wonder what is the difference between them?

#2 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-02-01 07:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4"

Real simple. ALL of these people accepted plea bargains, resulting in probation. Crystal Mason (the woman from Texas) turned down a plea bargain that would have resulted in probation and went to trial. Right or wrong, that is how plea bargains work.

Also, keep in mind that election fraud laws/penalties are not at all the same from state to state, so it is apples/oranges when you try to do that type of comparison.

"So it continues to appear that Republicans are determined to prove that voter fraud exists, even if they have to commit it themselves.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-02-01 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag: "

To those who insist there really isn't a problem so no need to take such measures.......Is this what it is going to take to beleive election fraud exists? I don't care who is doing it, election fraud is real. I don't think it has yet reached the level where it swings elections, but the potential is there, and that is reason enough to take preventative measures that both insure election integrity and provide a sense of confidence for ALL voters that the process is legitimate.

"Love how Bellringer is fine with Republican voter fraud.

No surprises from Jeff on that one.

#9 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-02-01 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag: "

Virtually ALL of you were fine with election fraud......till you realized it was coming from the opposing camp. Now all of a sudden it matters?

"Love how Bellringer is fine with Republican voter fraud.

No surprises from Jeff on that one.

#9 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-02-01 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag: "

Virtually ALL of you were fine with election fraud......you denied it was real until you realized it was coming from the opposing camp. Now all of a sudden it matters?

"Oh, I do not insist for a minute that there is no voter fraud problem. What I do insist is that there is no voter fraud problem of the magnitude that is espoused by the GOP regarding the 2020 election."

Good, we are on the same page

"Got any evidence of that potential?"

Look up those two words, "evidence" and "potential". If fraud is successful, there is no evidence. If it hasn't happened yet (potential) there is no evidence. Can't prove a negative. I worked on a political campaign which gave me access to massive amounts of voter data. I know exactly how I could pull off a pretty massive voter fraud at the county level, if I were so inclined, but I am not.

"I am all for valid voting in our elections. But I have a significant issue with the imagined monsters under the bed proffered by so many."

I agree, it is primarily a fear mongering, political wedge issue. That doesn't mean there aren't ANY monsters under the bed. They are just really really small and harmless right now, but they will grow up and if we aren't ready for them we will completely lose control of our elections (or worse yet) the public's faith in our our elections.

Case in point, Samuel Bankman Fried, managed to steal 14.6 BILLION dollars with the help of a few friends. I bet you didn't see that coming either. The technology is there. The stupidity to miss the hack is definately there.

Speaking of imagined monsters under the bed. That is how I see the whole "oppressed voters" argument against election security measures. It is beyond patronizing and insulting to POC to suggest that we are easily intimidated, don't have ID's, don't know how to get one, can't fill out an absentee ballot application or ballot properly, and can't get ourselves to the polls unless you give us four months of days nights and weekends to get there, and need someone to bring us food and beverages while we wait.. I managed to vote just fine thirty years ago when you actually had to show up in person on Election Day to do that, and nothing new has happened since to "Disenfranchise" or "Oppress" me. Those kind of arguments themselves are racist and elitist and driving nonwhite voters away from the Democratic party. The only POC you hear repeating them are the race hustlers like Sharpton.

"Your comments raise another issue... why do your comments seem to want to draw attention away from the unsubstantiated comments of the GOP about election fraud in 2020, comments by fmr Pres trump and others that seemed to have led to the Jan 6 insurrection attempt?

Why do your comments seem to want to draw attention away from that?"

I don't think my comments draw attention away from anything. Thats going on in your head.

"Yes, election fraud happens. That is why we have election officials, to catch such fraud (who, oddly the GOP seems to attack. But that's a different thread)"
Pretty much what I have been saying. And you keep forgetting I am not GOP

But did election fraud occur at the level asserted by the "Stop The Steal" folk?
No, I don;t think it did, and I am not a "stop the Stealer either"

"Uh-huh. You know what's more insulting? You saying that."

---- you YAV, you obviously didn't even read my post, or you just lack the ability to comprehend. I have not advocated for ANY of the activities you linked, nor have I denied that such things occur. Not going down your strawman path.

As your comment notes, "unsubstantiated."

#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-02-01 09:49 PM | Reply | Flag:
Huh? I never used that word , so I don't get your point at all

"Did you report that knowledge to the proper authorities to prevent such a fraud in the future? (serious question)"
No, nothing to report, nothing happened, no secret vulnerability or specific big hole to exploit, no Oceans 11 strategy. Nothing particularly high tech or even digital. Just something so mundane and simple any idiot could figure it out. I'm not going to lay it out here, just in case somehow I am the only idiot that figured it out, but I doubt it. It would take a good sized team and some coordinated effort, but it is for sure doable.

"Aside from that, the rest of your comment is little more than the garbage that triggered the January 6 insurrection attempt."

There was some truth within that garbage. Those who insist on denying that truth will look back later and see that denial was the backdoor the Trojan Horse waltzed right in through. That may be the GOP's master plan. Convince the Democrats to keep fighting fight tooth and nail to prevent Election security measures then ride right in through the open front gate. Have you considered that possibility.

"Let me ask differently, what is the concern you have about election fraud?
We have been quibbling about the extent of the election fraud."

No we have not. We agree on that

"I think it a minor issue."

So far.

"Yet your comments seem to indicate it is something much more substantial? Far more substantial."

No, I didn't say that. I said POTENTIAL as in future, and I think if we wait UNTIL it is significant, it will be too late to stop the fallout. By fallout, I mean the complete breakdown in public confidence if "significant election fraud" does actually occur, and is discovered. As a country, we may never get over the lack of confidence such an event would cause.

"So, I'll ask, what evidence do you have of significant election fraud?"
I have repeated, again and again. There is no evidence of significant election fraud. On that point we agree.

#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-02-01 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let me be clear. The election was not stolen. Trump Lost. Biden won. Isolated bits of election fraud occurred in various places. I do not believe there was no significant widespread election fraud. Nevertheless, the MAGA crowd managed to convince millions of people otherwise. That subset of people has already completely lost faith in our electoral system. That fallout was severe enough to cause an insurrection. I think we agree on all of those things.

Now, imagine a situation where a sizable voter fraud incident ACTUALLY occurs. It doesn't even have to be a whole state, just a couple counties. How many MORE people will become convinced that the electoral system is untrustworthy. I mean Hey Bernice, if that can happen in Montgomery County, how do we know it didn't happen here? How long would it take for that type of loss in confidence to infect America? How long woiuld it take for an insurrection to become a revolution?

Do you want to take common sense steps to prevent that from happening (like voter ID, absentee ballot controls, etc) or will you just wait until then and keep your hands over your eyes and ears and insist it didn't happen, isn't happening, can't ever happen?

Honestly, I have never been able to understand why this is not a simple, bipartisan issue.

#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-02-01 10:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

@#48 ... Those who insist on denying that truth...

Please be quite specific.

What is "that truth?"

thx.

#52 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-02-01 10:39 PM | Reply | Flag:
Read the post, the sentence before that, it is quite clear.

"You certainly did your best to minimize the impact of those concerted efforts and the results of those efforts."
Um no, I didn't minimize anything

"A strawman would have been if I had assigned you a position that you don't hold that's ridiculous so I could then attack the ridiculous position and "win" the argument in the minds of those that don't think critically. "
Yep, you just did it again. right there.

"What arrogance to assume everyone can be just like you."
And there, you did it again. I didn't say anything like that, Im not sure what you even mean by that, but it is a viewpoint you have assigned to me.

"I don't see anyone wanting to wait until it is a significant problem before they fix it."
I do. In particular, there is massive pushback against any effort to better secure absentee ballots. That is a hugely vulnerable area for mass exploitation.

"Indeed, we are seeing election fraud being caught and punished (mostly committed by Republicans) on a monthly basis."
Small stuff, I'm talking about the big stuff, I don't know which side it will come from and I dont care.

"So, why do you think that we won't catch it in the future?"
We might, we might not. Frankly, catching it may be more damaging to public confidence than not catching it. What we need to do is PREVENT it.

"OK, so we have kept election fraud at a low level to date, as you agree. So why do you think we will not be able to continue that going forward?"

Because it isn't going to slowly spread, one individual case at a time. Someone is going to get a big plan together and execute it. Maybe they will get caught, but it will still severely damage public confidence.

"I've been watching it happen with putting election deniers on election commissions, Moms for Liberty (what a lie that name is) getting their believers on school boards, watching gerrymandering keep Republicans in power against the wishes of and the ratios of the opposition, even bypassing ballot measures passed to ensure redistricting was fair and done by neutral non-partisan commissions. I've watched it with the appointment of judges."

All true, all important points, just not what I was talking about. No intent to minimize those issues, but those would all fall under Voter Suppression. The thread is about Voter Fraud.

"50 | Posted by YAV at 2023-02-01 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

@#48 ... No, nothing to report ...

Whoa, wait, what?

In #32 you said "I know exactly how I could pull off a pretty massive voter fraud at the county level, if I were so inclined, but I am not."

Yet do not think that is something to report to election officials?

Why do you think there is nothing to report?

Your comment seems to acknowledge the alleged vulnerability. Yet you do not want to report it.

I'd proffer that you would want to assure elections are secure, yet your comment indicates otherwise.

Am I misinterpreting what you said?"

---Nope. Because the elections officials already know about the "alleged vulnerability". There are very simple election security measures that could protect it from exploitation, but those measures have already been proposed and rejected. That is my whole point.

"The sentence before was, "There was some truth within that garbage." So, let me ask again... What is this "truth" of which you speak?"

What was the garbage of which you were speaking. Be specific.....that will lead us to the answer.

"@#63 ... there is massive pushback against any effort to better secure absentee ballots. That is a hugely vulnerable area for mass exploitation. ...
How? Please be specific."

Being specific would be providing a blueprint, I'm not going to do that. If you prefer to pretend absentee ballots are safe from exploitation, you may continue to believe that. I can't/won't prove it to you over a public message board.

"Indeed, you even to seem to admit that you know of an election fraud channel, yet you admit you do not report it to election officials." They know. Lots of people know. Pretty much anyone who has ever worked in an elections office or on a campaign knows, and its not just a localized issue.

"Given that, why should anything you say about election fraud be taken seriously? Your comments seems to indicate you do no want to prevent it."

I could say the same about you. What have you done for election security, other than deny the need for it?

"What has been damaging to the public confidence in voting has been the Republicans' constant assertion 9without evidence) of voting fraud. Why do you want to continue that assertion?"

What Republican assertion have I continued? Be specific.

"The Republicans have already severely damaged public confidence in voting with their unsubstantiated assertions. And you are continuing to try to do so.
Yes they have damaged public confidence. I thought we agreed we were on the same page about that too? How have I continued trying to do so? Be specific.
I am trying to PROTECT public confidence by PREVENTING a major incident of voter fraud. We may not agree on the best way to accomplish that, but I don't know why you can't see that. AT this point I think you are just ------- with me.

I don't THINK they already know about it, I KNOW they already know about it.

Like I said you are just trolling now. No need to be a -------- just because I won't elaborate. Thought we bonded last night.

Definitely you are trolling with -------- like that and dragging posts around to different, unrelated threads with no context. Dick move, Lampy, totally lost all respect for you.

I don't appreciate you BS games trying to out me as some sort of deep state agenda secret agent or something.

Maybe I'm your mother in law spying on you. Run with that one for a little while, soak in paranoia.

Why are YOU here? Whyareany of us here?