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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, March 12, 2023

The Associated Press writes that America's school kids are so hungry they cannot concentrate, making learning difficult. The federal government sunsetting programs that helped families during covid and the rising price of food is causing a spike in hunger, AP reports.

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...Congress temporarily made school meals free to all American schoolkids, but since that ended last fall, the need has only seemed to grow.

Soaring food prices are adding strains on families who are seeing reductions in multiple kinds of financial assistance. One federal program that ends this month had given nearly 30 million Americans extra food stamps during the pandemic.

School cafeterias typically don't turn away a hungry kid, but debts for unpaid school meals have been rising -- showing the level of need, and raising questions about how schools will keep feeding everyone, without federal money to do it. The neediest kids are eligible for free or reduced-price meals, as before the pandemic, but qualifying for those benefits requires applications that haven't been necessary for several years.

"Programs that provide direct food assistance are hugely critical and we are going to see the effects of not having them over the next couple of months," said Megan Curran, policy director for Columbia University's Center on Poverty and Social Policy. ...


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-12 02:15 PM | Reply

It's to bad so many druggies don't want to feed their kids.

FTR I am not opposed to kids with sober parents getting a free meal it's the parents that are using that shouldn't have kids.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-12 02:58 PM | Reply

@#2 ... it's the parents that are using that shouldn't have kids. ...

But they do have kids, and those kids may be the ones who are hungry.

Wasn't it Florida that started drug-testing welfare recipients a few years ago, to much fanfare? And Florida found it cost more to run the testing than it recouped by denying welfare benefits to those very few who failed?

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-12 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

FTR I am not opposed to kids with sober parents getting a free meal it's the parents that are using that shouldn't have kids.

#2 | POSTED BY TOR

Hard to blame the parents when you have one political party trying to force people to have kids, whether they are wanted or not.

And then refusing to provide any financial support to ensure those kids are raised in a secure environment.

#4 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2023-03-12 11:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 11

@#3 ...Wasn't it Florida that started drug-testing welfare recipients a few years ago, to much fanfare? And Florida found it cost more to run the testing than it recouped by denying welfare benefits to those very few who failed?...

Florida didn't save money by drug testing welfare recipients, data shows
www.tampabay.com

...Required drug tests for people seeking welfare benefits ended up costing taxpayers more than it saved and failed to curb the number of prospective applicants, data used against the state in an ongoing legal battle shows.
...

Of the 4,086 applicants who scheduled drug tests while the law was enforced, 108 people, or 2.6 percent, failed, most often testing positive for marijuana. About 40 people scheduled tests but canceled them, according to the Department of Children and Families, which oversees Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, known as the TANF program.

The numbers, confirming previous estimates, show that taxpayers spent $118,140 to reimburse people for drug test costs, at an average of $35 per screening.

The state's net loss? $45,780....



#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-12 11:29 PM | Reply


oops, forget to add...

The article I cited in #5 from tampabay.com was dated April 2012.

Apologies.

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-12 11:32 PM | Reply

Im not thinking of weed Im thinking about an ex of mine who's junkie bio parents lost her to the state because they didnt feed her regularly they fed their habbit.

#7 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-13 12:09 AM | Reply

@#7 ... Im thinking about an ex of mine ...

So... a sample size of ... one.


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-13 01:58 AM | Reply

You think there aren't other heroin addicts out there with kids going hungry? Think again.

#9 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-13 02:04 AM | Reply

"Wasn't it Florida that started drug-testing welfare recipients a few years ago, to much fanfare? And Florida found it cost more to run the testing than it recouped by denying welfare benefits to those very few who failed?
#3 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER"

No, that is not what was found. What actually was found is that there was a huge decrease in those that applied for the programs because they didn't want to be tested (they chose drugs over welfare). Additionally, there were dumb liberals that continued to do drugs and then pissed hot and lost their benefits. But, given you only get your news from here and MSNBC, I can see why you have a completely misinformed view of the program.

#10 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-13 04:44 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

" What actually was found is that there was a huge decrease in those that applied for the programs because they didn't want to be tested "

Nonsense. You're just a lying sack of ------.
www.aclu.org

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-13 05:09 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Everything Clodio said was a lie. From the above link:

The utter absurdity of this law is magnified when you realize how much it cost the state of Florida to run this program. The data released today shows that Florida spent $118,140 reimbursing the overwhelming number of Florida TANF applicants " 3,938 to be exact " who tested negative for drugs. That is far more than any money saved by the program, at a net cost to the State of over $45,000. And that's only part of the cost to the state to run this program. There are also the administrative costs, staff costs, and, of course, the litigation costs. Furthermore, the testing program didn't deter individuals from applying for help " an internal document about TANF caseloads revealed that, at least from July through September, the policy did not lead to fewer cases.

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-13 05:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Everything Clodio said was a lie."

Well...DUH!!!

LOL!

#13 | Posted by Angrydad at 2023-03-13 07:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

And then refusing to provide any financial support to ensure those kids are raised in a secure environment.

#4 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2023-03-12 11:25 PM | Reply

That has been the right wing christian position for the last forty years.

The point is the suffering. They don't care who suffers so long as they can look down on them from their morally superior perch.

#14 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-03-13 08:04 AM | Reply

The data released today shows that Florida spent $118,140 reimbursing the overwhelming number of Florida TANF applicants " 3,938 to be exact " who tested negative for drugs. That is far more than any money saved by the program, at a net cost to the State of over $45,000.

The goals of the program was to:

1. Get money into the hands of donors that own the testing labs.
2. Get money into the hands of donors that own the testing labs.
3. Get money into the hands of donors that own the testing labs.

And to appease their "christian" base that demands people be punished.

#15 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-03-13 08:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Florida stupidity also proved that those on TANF recipients were far less likely to be using drugs than those not receiving financial aid.

And Tor? Your sentiments truly disgust me. You would punish kids because of their parents addiction? If there is one thing you should have taken away from your experience with your ex is that no amount of shame was going to make her choose her kids over her own addiction. The only thing that was going o happen was she was going to get her fix and the kids were going to starve or find some way to feed themselves.

#17 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-13 08:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe the Florida program wasn't about the money, but was about trying to discourage drug use.

Maybe? You don't know you're just guessing? Trying to rationalize "The Cruelty is the Point" raison d'etre of the GOP? To pile on humiliation, embarrassment, hatred on others that "don't make wise choices" that align with the mandated State philosophy?

You're another brainless Republican automatron.

#18 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-13 08:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

California does drug testing as well. Find out what companies they use.

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-13 12:19 PM | Reply

"#12 | POSTED BY DANFORTH"

Your entire premise was 'Democrat math'. The result, as I stated above was a huge decrease in people opting to get welfare, which means that they chose to do drugs over getting the test and benefits. The net result was that 1600 people chose not to get tested - given $400 average payout and 48 months limit on TANF, that amounts to a savings of $30M USD by moving them off welfare. IN ADDITION - there was ~1% of Democrat voters that continued to do drugs and popped positive on the test and we cut off. However, the real story is the 1600 out of roughly 9000 that completely opted out because they were scared of failing the drug test - but much like J6, the Dems lie and fixate only on the 1% dumb enough to test when they know they will piss hot.

For the facts on the opt outs...
drugfree.org

Tell the truth Danforth, did you know of this 1600 people and chose to lie by omission or were you just completely ignorant of the facts?

#20 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-13 01:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

[citation required]

Tor?

#21 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-13 01:02 PM | Reply

"Your entire premise was 'Democrat math'."

Yeah. ACTUAL numbers and results.

For example, your claim of less people applying was clearly pulled out of your backside. Why did you make up that lie?

#22 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-13 01:22 PM | Reply

"For the facts on the opt outs...

One stat, in a vacuum. The OVERALL numbers didn't decline, according to the program itself.

" the real story is the 1600 out of roughly 9000 that completely opted out because they were scared of failing the drug test"

You don't know that for a fact. And you're pretending a barrier doesn't act as a barrier. For example, you're assuming EVERY person had one reason only. False on its face.

#23 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-13 01:28 PM | Reply

"given $400 average payout and 48 months limit on TANF, that amounts to a savings..."

So how many "clean" people did this include?

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-13 01:30 PM | Reply

I couldn't find the numbers cited in that link, nor did the links within the cited article work.
ACLU's findings (lawsuit was referred to in #20):

"In the four months that Florida's law was in place, the state drug tested 4,086 TANF applicants. A mere 108 individuals tested positive. To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs - a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegal drugs. Now might be a good time to remind folks that in the debate over the bill, Gov. Rick Scott argued that this law was necessary because, he said, welfare recipients used drugs at a higher rate than the general population." www.aclu.org

Which has always been a lie and Florida ended up proving, so completely I might add, that Florida did away with the testing. That was back in 2011 ferchrissakes. www.jacksonville.com
Florida hasn't drug tested TANF recipients since because it was a dismal failure

In states that do test as a pre-qualification almost all base it on a past history of drug abuse/conviction (felons) not as a general requirement to receive TANF.

And no, California doesn't test as a precondition for receiving TANF unless you were convicted on felony drug charges, and there is no disqualification.

#25 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-13 01:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Republicans understand perfectly how beating up on the poors is the way to total victory!

#26 | Posted by john47 at 2023-03-13 04:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Joe Biden is raising taxes on the 1% and I would like to make sure that working Americans get the most bang for their Buck out of that tax increase.

#27 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-13 04:24 PM | Reply

FTR I am not opposed to kids with sober parents getting a free meal it's the parents that are using that shouldn't have kids.

#2 | POSTED BY TOR

Agreed. Now if only they had safe, legal, affordable access to a last-ditch alternative.

#28 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2023-03-14 12:17 AM | Reply

Yes I am pro-choice thank you for asking.

#29 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-14 01:15 AM | Reply

""In the four months that Florida's law was in place, the state drug tested 4,086 TANF applicants. A mere 108 individuals tested positive. To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs - a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegal drugs.
#25 | POSTED BY YAV"

Why are you lying? Why do you omit the 1600 drug users that were purged from the welfare roles saving up to $30M? With the 18% that opted out in addition to the 2.6% of Democrat voters that chose to piss hot and lose benefits, that makes ~20% of welfare recipients prioritize drugs over benefits. When we have the true numbers, the welfare drug users are about 2.5x higher than the general population. Anyone who has ever gone by low income housing knows this is the case which is why everywhere stinks of weed - from the outside air to every since corridor and stairwell. I really don't understand your need to lie about this fact.

#30 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 03:41 AM | Reply

#29 | POSTED BY TOR

I know you are. The comment wasn't an attack. More of a commentary on how our country keeps finding new ways to work against itself. I'm also aware abortion isn't the only answer to the problem of substance-abusers bringing children into their dysfunctional world.

#31 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2023-03-14 03:56 AM | Reply

#30 - I'm not a liar and I'm not lying. I cited my sources, the data, and the actual lawsuit. I called all that out. I also said I couldn't find some numbers. What a dishonest POS to take part of what I posted, ignore what I said.

GFY.

#32 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 09:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"in addition to the 2.6% of Democrat voters that chose to piss hot and lose benefits"

Where is your proof that these were Democratic voters or registered voters at all?

#33 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 09:59 AM | Reply

30

Did 18% drop out?

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 10:05 AM | Reply

"welfare recipients used drugs at a higher rate than the general population"

Who are we calling a recipient?

The woman who applied? Then Scott is wrong. If you include everyone who "benefits" from this assistance, including teenagers and boyfriends, etc?

Changes the paradigm significantly.

Which is why the testing program was a waste of time.

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 10:10 AM | Reply

GFY.

#32 | POSTED BY YAV

Can you go a day without resorting to that?

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 10:11 AM | Reply

"in addition to the 2.6% of Democrat voters that chose to piss hot and lose benefits"

108 people out of 4,086:

While the law was in effect from July 1 through October 2011, it showed few results. State data showed that only 108 out of 4,086 people tested--2.6 percent--were found to have been using narcotics, the New York Times, CNN and numerous other media reported. State records showed that the requirement cost more money to carry out than it saved.
www.jacksonville.com

#37 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 10:13 AM | Reply

"Did 18% drop out?

#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

Yes, nearly 1600 of the original ~9000 people eligible. 1600 immediately opted out after the testing requirement was implemented. Why do you think that was? Also, why do the Leftist here ignore these 1600 people and the $30M savings from them opting out?

#38 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 10:23 AM | Reply

"Where is your proof that these were Democratic voters or registered voters at all?
#33 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

Poor
Drug users
Stupid

This is literally the perfect Venn diagram of Democrat voters.

#39 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 10:25 AM | Reply

" Why do you think that was? "

One of the reasons was the $25-$35 cost. What percentage of the welfare recipients found that a burden?

Oh, right: you're pretending that number is zero.

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:26 AM | Reply

" nearly 1600 of the original ~9000 people "

That's stated in your link, but not sourced. Who is the source of the claim? And why isn't the source of the claim included into the article?

Please link to the source of that claim. Thank you.

#41 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:31 AM | Reply

"Please link to the souce of that claim. Thank you.

#41 | POSTED BY DANFORTH"

If I provide the link to the source data, will you admit you were wrong and never use your stupid talking point on this ever again?

#42 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 10:34 AM | Reply

Can you go a day without resorting to that?

#36 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2023-03-14 10:11 AM | FLAG:

I can. I often do. If some asshat comes right in and calls me a liar though then no. If another asshat comes in and whines about me saying that, then I'd tell them to GFY.

So Eberly? GFY.

#43 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:35 AM | Reply

If I provide the link to the source data, will you admit you were wrong and never use your stupid talking point on this ever again?

I'd like to see the actual data. I'd also like to make sure it's a reputable, trustworthy source. There's too much garbage out there, and way too many lies from the right-wing propagandists to ever, ever, ever take the word of any one of you. You folks lost that right to the benefit of the doubt.

#44 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:38 AM | Reply

"If I provide the link to the source data, will you admit you were wrong and never use your stupid talking point on this ever again?"

Dude, it's your claim. Your claim, your responsibility. I just noticed the claim exists, but no citation.

Meanwhile, you're willing to lie about "Democrat" voters, and pretending an additional barrier isn't an additional barrier. So, if they're using the same scientific method as you, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And again...why didn't your article state the source for the claim?

#45 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:40 AM | Reply

Poor
Drug users
Stupid
This is literally the perfect Venn diagram of Democrat voters.
#39 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

No, that's not proof. That's biased speculation on your part.

#46 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 10:40 AM | Reply

43

So no, then. At least you're self aware of it.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 10:41 AM | Reply

-One of the reasons was the $25-$35 cost. What percentage of the welfare recipients found that a burden?

Zero. Free money or no free money?

#48 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 10:43 AM | Reply

"I'd like to see the actual data.
#44 | POSTED BY YAV"

That didn't answer my question.

#49 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 10:44 AM | Reply

It's to bad so many druggies don't want to feed their kids.
FTR I am not opposed to kids with sober parents getting a free meal it's the parents that are using that shouldn't have kids.
#2 | POSTED BY TOR

Why should a child with drug-addicted parents starve? To teach the parents a lesson, at the expense of an innocent kid?

There is something seriously wrong with people who think the way you do. Seek professional help, i'm not even joking.

#50 | Posted by JOE at 2023-03-14 10:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"That didn't answer my question."

Why are you wasting posts and not providing a link?

#51 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:47 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He doesn't have a link. He has an article that cites the data, but not the data, and the article doesn't cite the source.
I'd love to see the data. I posted what I could find that was documented. I live here in Florida. I remember the massive failure this was when they tried it.

So no, then. At least you're self aware of it.

Try being worthy of a response other than GFY, otherwise GFY. It's really quite simple, Eberly. Or is that too complicated for you?

#52 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:53 AM | Reply

"Why are you wasting posts and not providing a link?
#51 | POSTED BY DANFORTH"

You didn't answer my question. If me providing a link is not going to result in you admitting you were wrong and abandoning your talking point, why should I go to the effort of providing it?

#53 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 10:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What percentage of the welfare recipients found that a burden?"

"Zero."

Incorrect!

Who wants to try a different guess?

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:54 AM | Reply

If me providing a link is not going to result in you admitting you were wrong and abandoning your talking point, why should I go to the effort of providing it?

I don't think anyone but you cares. We'll just continue on calling you a liar that won't back up YOUR claims.

#55 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You didn't answer my question."

My answer is moot. Your claim, your link. Where is it?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 10:57 AM | Reply

You didn't answer my question. If me providing a link is not going to result in you admitting you were wrong and abandoning your talking point, why should I go to the effort of providing it?

POSTED BY CLAUDIO AT 2023-03-14 10:54 AM

Link or stink. That's the rules of the game.

#57 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-03-14 11:01 AM | Reply

"I don't think anyone but you cares.
#55 | POSTED BY YAV"

Exactly my point - you will continue to lie regardless.

#58 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"why should I go to the effort of providing it"

Because you posted the claim.

Are you new to the internet?

#59 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 11:09 AM | Reply

"Exactly my poin"

And ANOTHER post without a link. Gee, I wonder why?

#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 11:10 AM | Reply

Exactly my point - you will continue to lie regardless.

I can't call you a liar about the specific data if the link is good and the data is accurate and the source is reliable.

What's the issue?

#61 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 11:14 AM | Reply

"#61 | POSTED BY YAV"

It is not about calling me a liar - I have already provided a link and have never lied. The one caught in a lie is you. Will you admit to it if I provide another link?

#62 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:17 AM | Reply

Here we go:

The St. Petersburg Times wrote in an article about Scriven's order that nearly 1,600 welfare applicants have refused to take the test since testing began in mid July. Thirty-two applicants failed the test -- mostly testing positive for marijuana -- and more than 7,000 have passed, according to the Department of Children and Families.

www.tampabay.com

The orginal source seems to be: St. Petersburg Times, "Welfare drug testing halted," Oct. 25, 2011

However, you can't assume that all the people who refused to take the test did so because they were drug users. Some refused because they felt it violated their rights:

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida sued the state in September on behalf of of Luis Lebron, a 35-year-old Navy veteran, college student and single father from Orlando. Lebron refused to submit to a drug test arguing that requiring him to pay for and submit to one is unreasonable when there is no reason to believe he uses drugs.

#63 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:23 AM | Reply

I will continue to lie regardless.
#58 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Edited for accuracy.

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:24 AM | Reply

It is not about calling me a liar
#62 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

It absolutely is.

You absolutely are.

Carry on, liar.

#65 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:25 AM | Reply


"In the four months that Florida's law was in place, the state drug tested 4,086 TANF applicants. A mere 108 individuals tested positive. To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs - a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegal drugs.

Why were they tested for drugs? Would they lose their benefits if tested positive?

If so then 2.6 of the applicants were stupid, the sample set self-selected. Deriving any relationship between TANF applicants and the general population would be flawed..

#66 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:25 AM | Reply

"However, you can't assume that all the people who refused to take the test did so because they were drug users. Some refused because they felt it violated their rights:
#63 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

You are really going with that story? At least you have come to accept the reality that the welfare rolls were cut by 1600, saving ~$30M.

#67 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:26 AM | Reply

Why were they tested for drugs?
#66 | POSTED BY ONENUT

It was a failed attempt at painting welfare recipients as drug addicts.

Welcome to the discussion.

Time for you to weigh in with your opinions despite clearly being an ignorant.

#68 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:28 AM | Reply

"Why were they tested for drugs? Would they lose their benefits if tested positive?
#66 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

Testing was a requirement and testing positive means they are cut off...and 1600 opted out of testing for a reason plainly obvious to anyone with a fully functioning brain.

#69 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:28 AM | Reply

#63 I would agree with LeBron, having to pay for the test yourself is BS.

#70 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:28 AM | Reply

Testing was a requirement and testing positive means they are cut off...and 1600 opted out of testing for a reason plainly obvious to anyone with a fully functioning brain.

#69 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Then deriving any reletionship between those sampled and the general population is rubbish

#71 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:29 AM | Reply

Interesting how a thread about hungry children quickly turned into a discussion about whether adults are drug addicts.

As if one justifies the other.

Republicans are mentally ill.

#72 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Time for you to weigh in with your opinions despite clearly being an ignorant.

#68 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

At least I have an opinion, and don't just run around the DR calling people liars without backing up my assertions.

#73 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:30 AM | Reply

"#71 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

Not really. The 2%+ fail rate and the 18% opt out rate put the number of welfare drug users at about 20% - or 2.5x the general population. Keep in mind this was back in 2011. With the proliferation of weed, I would suspect the number would be closer to 60% today.

#74 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:31 AM | Reply

Interesting how a thread about hungry children quickly turned into a discussion about whether adults are drug addicts.

This is what I didn't understand. We are talking about millions of kids.

The issue is how did the kids go hungry?

Inflation? Well then its going to get a lot worse. Passing out money is how we got this way.

#75 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:32 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

At least I have an opinion,
#73 | POSTED BY ONENUT

Well aren't you special.

#76 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:32 AM | Reply

The issue is how did the kids go hungry?

Republican policies.

#77 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:33 AM | Reply

#74 - You are making an assumption about why people didn't partake.

Could be many reasons, lets say you are poor (which is why you would apply in the first place) and can't afford the test.

You can't make an assumption about data you didn't collect.

#78 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:34 AM | Reply

Cruelty is the point.

#79 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:34 AM | Reply

"At least I have an opinion, and don't just run around the DR calling people liars without backing up my assertions.
#73 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

If clownshack had any self-awareness, he would remain silent and step away from this thread. Unfortunately, ignorance and verbosity are traits that go hand in hand for the Left. Danforth would be exhibit #2. Think he will admit he was wrong now that his own friends have admitted the 1600 opt out number is true?

#80 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:34 AM | Reply

You are really going with that story? At least you have come to accept the reality that the welfare rolls were cut by 1600, saving ~$30M.
#67 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Is it a savings though if thousands of children lose benefits because one of their parents refused to take the drug test?

"Based on limited data from the Department of Corrections, DCF estimates that 1.56 percent of current adult TANF recipients have a drug conviction."
www.politifact.com

I'd like to see the stats on how many children were affected by their parent or legal guardians refusal to drug test?

#81 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:34 AM | Reply


Republican policies.
#77 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Which ones? Be specific so there can be a discussion.

#82 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:35 AM | Reply

"You can't make an assumption about data you didn't collect.
#78 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

$30 test vs. $200 - $500 in benefits per month...yeah, I am going to make the assumption that either:

1.) they are drug users
2.) they didn't actually need the money

Either way, the state saved about $30M.

#83 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:36 AM | Reply

Which ones?
#82 | POSTED BY ONENUT

Like I said.

You're an ignorant.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:37 AM | Reply

You can't make an assumption
#78 | POSTED BY ONENUT

There goes Claudio's entire "argument".

#85 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:38 AM | Reply

"I'd like to see the stats on how many children were affected by their parent or legal guardians refusal to drug test?"

If the testing had gone on, it had the potential to affect 58,000 people, most of them children:

The new testing requirement would affect about 58,000 people.
www.tampabay.com

#86 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:38 AM | Reply

#81

Then based upon CDC data and DoC about 6% of the TANF population is probably using drugs and hasn't been convicted. Until we can ascertain TANF drug use we must just assume it's equal to the general population.

I'd like to see the stats on how many children were affected by their parent or legal guardians refusal to drug test?

#81 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

What do you mean by "affected"? How could they not be affected by either choice?

#87 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:39 AM | Reply

Paging Danforth and Yav. You losers want to come admit you were wrong and eat your crow like a civilized person or are you planning to simply pretend you never spouted off? Inquiring minds want to know.

#88 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:41 AM | Reply

If the testing had gone on, it had the potential to affect 58,000 people, most of them children:

I didn't see that number in the link, could you provide a LampLighter synopsis?

#89 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:42 AM | Reply

Either way, the state saved about $30M.
#83 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Well, there is no evidence of that that I can find. Link?

#90 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:43 AM | Reply

You're an ignorant.
#84 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Like I said, you don't have an argument, you just run around calling people names. You represent the best of the Lumpers.

#91 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:43 AM | Reply

"I didn't see that number in the link, could you provide a LampLighter synopsis?"

Go to the link below. If it doesn't take you to this paragraph, write 58,000 in find on your search bar, and it will take you right to it:

The final bill, HB 353, forces all people who receive welfare cash, called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, to pass a test in order to be eligible for the funds. If prospective recipients fail a first test, they would lose benefits for one year. A second positive drug test makes them ineligible for three years. The new testing requirement would affect about 58,000 people.

www.tampabay.com

#92 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:45 AM | Reply

So if I read this correct :

The data released today shows that Florida spent $118,140 reimbursing the overwhelming number of Florida TANF applicants " 3,938 to be exact " who tested negative for drugs. That is far more than any money saved by the program, at a net cost to the State of over $45,000.
www.aclu.org

Florida should have paid for the testing, I don't see why this wasn't the case. Like I have said Florida is -------- State.

#93 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:46 AM | Reply

"Florida should have paid for the testing, I don't see why this wasn't the case. Like I have said Florida is -------- State.
#93 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

They did - they reimbursed anyone that passed. After paying $118K, they saved about $30M.

#94 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:49 AM | Reply

"The net result was that 1600 people chose not to get tested - given $400 average payout and 48 months limit on TANF, that amounts to a savings of $30M USD by moving them off welfare. IN ADDITION - there was ~1% of Democrat voters that continued to do drugs and popped positive on the test and we cut off. However, the real story is the 1600 out of roughly 9000 that completely opted out because they were scared of failing the drug test - but much like J6, the Dems lie and fixate only on the 1% dumb enough to test when they know they"

Wasn't the drug testing law thrown out before anyone could have been kicked off the rolls for 48 months? If the law had stayed in effect and a bunch of kids were effected by it, we don't really know what that cost would have been to society. It could have ended up costing Florida more in the long run.

#95 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:51 AM | Reply

"After paying $118K, they saved about $30M."

Link?

#96 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:52 AM | Reply

#92. I see the initial run was used on those that were convicted but out of jail, and applying.

The next iteration was everyone applying for TANF.

#94 - I am not seeing how you get $30M?

Having people pay for the test is BS.

#97 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:53 AM | Reply

Link?
#96 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Trust me. You don't want to see a picture of his rear end.

#98 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 11:54 AM | Reply

Gal,

That link fooled me, I thought it was only one article, got to the sources and stopped.

I see its just a aggregation of a subject. Interesting read.

#99 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:54 AM | Reply

Claudio,

Are you saying by not paying out to the 1600 they saved $30Million?

#100 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 11:56 AM | Reply

"Wasn't the drug testing law thrown out before anyone could have been kicked off the rolls for 48 months?
#95 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

It was. But the potential payoff was a net $30M savings. The whole genesis of this conversion was Lamplighters #5 which was repeated by the usual cast about how this program was a failure because it did not have more piss hot. The reality is that the benefit was in the opt outs. Of course, the ACLU came out to support the drug users and the testing was suspended. if it were not, the saving would have likely been in the range of $30M using the assumptions I posted above.

#101 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:57 AM | Reply

What do you mean by "affected"? How could they not be affected by either choice?
#87 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that if the parents didn't take the test, the family wouldn't receive benefits, but perhaps only the benefit of the parent who refused to be tested was withheld, and the other parent's and the children's benefits were not?

#102 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 11:58 AM | Reply

"Are you saying by not paying out to the 1600 they saved $30Million?
#100 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT"

Yes. 1600 people losing ~$400 per month for the 48 month TANF limit. That was the potential savings.

#103 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 11:58 AM | Reply

"Incorrect!

Who wants to try a different guess?"

Virtually zero?

What sober recipient would let the cost get in the way of free money?

#104 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 12:01 PM | Reply

103

The people arguing with you don't care about the cost. They know those folks would fail the drug test. It's not about that.

It's about the kids who go hungry.

And I don't disagree on that point.

#105 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 12:06 PM | Reply

"It's about the kids who go hungry.
And I don't disagree on that point.
#105 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

I am not even debating that point. My entire reason for posting was to alleviate their ignorance about the testing being a failure. It was most certainly not as the potential savings were $30M. It is a exercise in the left not understanding the whole story and framing it incorrectly - or simply repeating someone that framed it incorrectly because they are too dumb or lazy to do any research. And you see their reaction - I am called a liar for simply stating the truth about the 1600 opt outs because they cannot fathom that they have been lied to about the results and have been repeating the same incorrect talking point for years. Hence, the disappearance of Danforth and Yav.

#106 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 12:11 PM | Reply

In a civilized society in the modern world there is no acceptable excuse for schoolchildren going hungry. And anyone who disagrees is a piece of **** not worthy of further consideration.

#107 | Posted by moder8 at 2023-03-14 12:18 PM | Reply

In a civilized society in the modern world there is no acceptable excuse for schoolchildren going hungry. And anyone who disagrees is a piece of **** not worthy of further consideration.

#108 | Posted by moder8 at 2023-03-14 12:18 PM | Reply

"Hence, the disappearance of Danforth "

Danforth is billing $150/hr. He has better things to do.

"At least you have come to accept the reality that the welfare rolls were cut by 1600, saving ~$30M."

How many of those people were clean, and either couldn't afford the upfront $35 while on welfare, or, since there are entire counties without testing sites, didn't have a testing site close enough? Give me a percentage.

And anyone pretending it's zero won't be allowed at the adults' table.

#109 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 12:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#109 | POSTED BY DANFORTH"

So you are now admitting the 1600 number is accurate? Maybe we are finally making progress with you.

#110 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 12:27 PM | Reply

U.S. District Judge Mary Scriven permanently halted enforcement of the law in her ruling. She agreed with an earlier court finding that "there is nothing inherent in the condition of being impoverished that supports the conclusion that there is a concrete danger that impoverished individuals are prone to drug use ..."

During the time the law was in effect, about 2.6 percent of recipients tested positive for illegal drugs, mostly for marijuana, according to the court documents.

The failure rate was well below that of the general population. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services found in a 2009 survey that about, 8.7 percent, of the population aged 12 or older had used illicit drugs in the previous month.

www.snopes.com

#111 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 12:34 PM | Reply

"How many of those people were clean, and either couldn't afford the upfront $35 while on welfare, or, since there are entire counties without testing sites, didn't have a testing site close enough? Give me a percentage."

One article I read pointed out that some people didn't hand in the application, perhaps because they realized they no longer qualified, which is also different from refusing to take the test because you were using drugs.

#112 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 12:45 PM | Reply

Paging Danforth and Yav. You losers want to come admit you were wrong and eat your crow like a civilized person or are you planning to simply pretend you never spouted off? Inquiring minds want to know.

I provided what i found, I caveated it, I reiterated it, and Gal finally provided something that sort of supported (not completely) one of the numbers you supplied. So far that doesn't make me wrong, or a liar, it just means I posted what I could find because you never even bothered. When you were confronted did you post any information? No. Nothing.

Don't act all smug for being a king-size jackass and not doing the basics.

Thanks to Gal who chose to do a more detailed look or was able to find something else.

All I care about is accurate data backed up by citations to it. You're the one making all kinds of judgements and conclusions on what it means. Why would anyone believe anything you post? You have no credibility in the first place.

#113 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 12:51 PM | Reply

"Thanks to Gal who chose to do a more detailed look or was able to find something else."

YW. I only did it because a predicted snowstorm, that didn't hit us as hard expected, has shutdown everything in the county. Except the internet. :-)

#114 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 01:04 PM | Reply

"and Gal finally provided something that sort of supported (not completely) one of the numbers you supplied.

Yes, I would like to have found the original article to evaluate the full context, with any caveats, of the various figures cited. I would also like to know where the figures came from (the newspaper wasn't the original source itself, obviously) and what time frame was being covered.

#115 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 01:09 PM | Reply

#115 - Exactly. Looks like we'll never know, though. "Claudio" doesn't care about truth or accuracy. I live here and I remember this whole fiasco when it happened. The state didn't save any money. The simple proof of that is that the program was immediately halted. Halted before the test was scheduled to end. If it was saving all that money that wouldn't have happened.

#116 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 01:12 PM | Reply

I am not even debating that point. My entire reason for posting was to alleviate their ignorance about the testing being a failure. It was most certainly not as the potential savings were $30M.
#106 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

What was the cost of the testing?
You'd require the state to test people how often, weekly, monthly?

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 01:28 PM | Reply

"How many of those people were clean, and either couldn't afford the upfront $35 while on welfare, or, since there are entire counties without testing sites, didn't have a testing site close enough? Give me a percentage."

They went out of their way to get on welfare, they wouldn't let that be a real barrier.

No, the truth is that sobriety was the obstacle. Not the small fee.

If I went to all of them and said I had a lottery ticket to sell them. A lottery ticket with a 100% chance of winning. What % of them will hide behind the cost as a barrier?

#118 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 02:00 PM | Reply

They went out of their way to get on welfare, they wouldn't let that be a real barrier.
No, the truth is that sobriety was the obstacle. Not the small fee.
If I went to all of them and said I had a lottery ticket to sell them. A lottery ticket with a 100% chance of winning. What % of them will hide behind the cost as a barrier?
#118 | POSTED BY EBERLY

How many of them would have actually QUALIFIED for welfare after applying even if they did pass the drug test?

How many applied and then got a job that subsequently disqualified them?

How many moved out of the area between the time they applied and the application being withdrawn?

Why pay $35 if you don't need to?

#119 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-03-14 02:43 PM | Reply

My entire reason for posting was to alleviate their ignorance about the testing being a failure.
#106 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Let's assume it wasn't a failure

Why did they end the program?

Too successful??

#120 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 02:44 PM | Reply

the truth is that sobriety was the obstacle.
#118 | POSTED BY EBERLY

"The truth"

Based 100% on opinion.

It's the Eberly special.

#121 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 02:45 PM | Reply

Society values sobriety. To a point.

Which is why programs like this are put in motion.

The unfortunate reality is that you can't implement this without harming kids.

#122 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:06 PM | Reply

"$30 test"

Up front.

And possibly in the next county.

#123 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 03:15 PM | Reply

Better question Joe; why should I underwrite the alternative lifestyle of substance abusers?

They want their kid to get a free meal? Okay then but first they have to prove to me that they're not exploiting my labor of course if you want to be more effective with your money you can just give the money directly to the Junkies and cut out the middleman all together but you have no right to pick my pocket even if it's for so little as a Wooden Nickel.

#124 | Posted by Tor at 2023-03-14 03:15 PM | Reply

I love watching the excuses being made for people who were too high to pass a drug test.

Keep pretending that's not the most likely reason.

#125 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:18 PM | Reply

"What % of them will hide behind the cost as a barrier?"

More than zero.

That's the point.

#126 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 03:18 PM | Reply

"I love watching the excuses being made for people who were too high to pass a drug test. "

Did you miss the part where some counties don't have testing facilities? Is it possible someone already on welfare can't afford $35, transportation, and taking off work during business hours?

#127 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 03:21 PM | Reply

126

I think the point is that drug users are being picked on so we're going to pretend they aren't drug users.

The vast majority of them.

If I'm getting 30 days of free money but now I'm only getting 29 day of free money, it's not worth getting 29 days of free money?

Surely you understand this.

#128 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:24 PM | Reply

-Did you miss the part where some counties don't have testing facilities? Is it possible someone already on welfare can't afford $35, transportation, and taking off work during business hours?

How can they afford to NOT make those accommodations?

#129 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:25 PM | Reply

Society values sobriety.

Prohibition proved society values alcohol.

The failed war on drugs proves society values drugs.

Republican policies proved conservatives hate the poor and would prefer they died in the streets rather than help support them.

Republicans would rather provide the wealthy hundreds of millions in subsidies rather than make sure children are adequately fed.

This is an example of how capitalism fails to benefit society.

#130 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:31 PM | Reply

"How can they afford to NOT make those accommodations?"

Turns out any additional barrier is an additional barrier. Stunning, I know.

You could literally give out $10,000 to every person in town, and you wouldn't get 100% if they had to show up at XYZ address to get it.

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 03:32 PM | Reply

They want their kid to get a free meal? Okay then but first they have to prove to me

Fkkk you and your conditions.

#132 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:33 PM | Reply

130

It's not binary. They can value both.

But society values sobriety.

#133 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:37 PM | Reply

Republicans would rather provide the wealthy hundreds of millions in subsidies rather than make sure children are adequately fed.

Quick.

Does somebody wanna tell this cock-choking moron about the Holodomor?

In (of all places) his new favorite country that he couldn't point to on a map 2 years ago?

Why are these stupid ------------- allowed to vote?

#134 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2023-03-14 03:38 PM | Reply

-Fkkk you and your conditions.

At least you admit what this is really about.

You're pissed off sobriety is a condition for anything.

And I agree that it's hypocritical for a bank CEO to be a drug using welfare recipient when a trailer park dweller can't be.

#135 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:40 PM | Reply

But society values sobriety ... for the poor
#133 | POSTED BY EBERLY

At least be honest.

You don't give a shht about sobriety.

You just want the poor to jump through hoops in order to feed their kids.

#136 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:42 PM | Reply

#134 | POSTED BY MEAO

My favorite ivermectin addict is here to tell us about his flaming pustules.

Keep on being special.

You catty *itch.

#137 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:43 PM | Reply

At least you admit what this is really about.

Yea. Feeding children.

Unfortunately you dumb conservatives keep changing goal posts to "sobriety".

As if one has anything to do with the other.

Also, your boy DeSantis had to end his program because it was a failure.

Most Republican policies are failures.

Which is why they've committed 100% to fearmongering and spreading hate.

It's become their only policy.

#138 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:47 PM | Reply

"Society values sobriety."

I'll believe it when society pays people to be sober.

"I love watching the excuses being made for people who were too high to pass a drug test."

I love watching the excuses being made that it's any of the government's business if your someone is on drugs.

If you believe in freedom, then you can't also believe it's the government's business if someone is on drugs. Obviously we can carve out exceptions for pilots and bus drivers where being on drugs can negatively impact others.

There is a reason why the government can only drug test when it's justified: The Fourth Amendment.

But since Republicans are control freaks, they want government to test all poor people for drugs.

Meahwhile, you'll never hear Conservatives say CEOs should be drug tested if they want to run a company.

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 03:47 PM | Reply

-You don't give a shht about sobriety.

I didn't tell you what I think personally.

I'm quite liberal on the issue.

But the nurse you see for your warts and and other STD afflictions?

I want him/her sober while tending to you and your problems.

#140 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:48 PM | Reply

Tax cuts are far more important to Republicans than the well being of America's children.

At the same time they were passing the most recent, massive, budget-busting tax cuts, they sought to slash school lunch programs.

#141 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2023-03-14 03:48 PM | Reply

But the nurse you see for your warts and and other STD afflictions?
#140 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Typical Republican response.

You have to escape to an alternate reality in order to feel safe.

Enjoy your ivermectin.

#142 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:50 PM | Reply

"You're pissed off sobriety is a condition for anything."

That's what it's like to believe in freedom.

You're often drunk when you post from work. Should the government care?

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 03:51 PM | Reply

"Enjoy your ivermectin."

Typical clownblower response

#144 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:51 PM | Reply

It's not binary.
#133 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It's non-binary?

Careful, if any of your boys hear you say that they'll revoke your MAGA card.

#145 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 03:52 PM | Reply

But the nurse you see for your warts and and other STD afflictions?
I want him/her sober while tending to you and your problems.
#140 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Relate this back to why you want Cletus sitting on his front porch to be sober or lose welfare.

(Hint: You can't.)

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 03:53 PM | Reply

-Unfortunately you dumb conservatives keep changing goal posts to "sobriety".

It's the attitude of people who have a job. Jobs that require sobriety.

It's easy to convince them welfare recipients should be sober as well.

If you'd ever had a job where sobriety was a requirement then you might understand

#147 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:55 PM | Reply

Because many of the ultimate recipients of welfare are children, I have always disagreed with that drug testing policy.

If not for that, then my position would change.

#148 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 03:58 PM | Reply

"It's the attitude of people who have a job. Jobs that require sobriety."

Being a farmer doesn't require sobriety.

Neither does being a farmer's insurance salesman.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 04:08 PM | Reply

Here's a good article about what can cause false positives in drug tests:

Scott, for example, claimed that drug abuse was "much higher" in welfare recipients. In fact, the rate was 2%, compared to 9.4% in the general population.

Low rates of drug use have been shown in multiple states besides Florida, including only 1/800 welfare recipients in Tennessee, vs. 8% in the general population. Similarly, Utah found 0.2 percent of the total welfare recipient population positive, vs. 6% of the population who admitted to using drugs.

The rate of drug use in the US among full-time workers averaged 9.5%, according to the government's Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA). . . .

As I explained in 2013, "Estimates of accuracy of the drug tests are < 1% for false positive confirmatory tests, and perhaps 5% false negatives, due to where the thresholds are commonly set. Using this as an example, and an 8% drug usage rate, we would get, in a 1000 tested workers: [see chart at link}

4 people will be reported "clean," a false negative, though they use drugs.

Of 920 who did not use drugs, 1%, or ~9 people will show up as positive.

Of 85 people who test positive, 9/85, or 10.6% will erroneously be identified as drug users. So while 1% error rate (false positive) sounds good, 10% of the positives will be false."

Many drugs can cause false positive results, including ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin), cold or hay fever remedies, or quinolone antibiotics, for example.

www.forbes.com

#150 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 04:21 PM | Reply

"The vast majority of them."

Give me a percentage. 70%? 80%? 90%? 95%???

Even at 95%, that's still 80 "clean" folks who don't get benefits.

#151 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 04:23 PM | Reply

95% minimum.

But I accept your point.

#152 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 04:28 PM | Reply

"95% minimum."

Who believe correctly they'd fail a test? Or are you also including those who misunderstand the test, wouldn't fail it, but avoid it? Again, we're dealing with the folks who have the most challenges in our society, sometimes literally. Should they be denied benefit, just so government can play daddy?

If we did this to CEOs as well, that'd be different. Notice, no one suggested drug tests for the folks who crashed SVB. What were they smoking???

#153 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 04:35 PM | Reply

-Who believe correctly they'd fail a test?

Yes.

#154 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 04:38 PM | Reply

"Notice, no one suggested drug tests for the folks who crashed SVB."

And they never will.

Because this is just class warfare masquerading as "society demands sobriety" except not from the CEO class... or the insurance salesman class.

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 04:39 PM | Reply

-Notice, no one suggested drug tests for the folks who crashed SVB.

I agree it's complete hypocrisy.

#156 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 04:41 PM | Reply

Being a farmer doesn't require sobriety.
Neither does being a farmer's insurance salesman.
#149 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of jobs don't require sobriety.

#157 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 04:56 PM | Reply

"Yes"

Keep going. What portion misunderstands the test, or can't afford the $35, or doesn't live in a county with testing services?

It's easy to assume they'd just get in their new SUV and drive to the closest testing facility, down the street, putting the charge on the card with the most rewardpoints. Try someone on welfare whose car doesn't work, and doesn't have any extra money.

For more insight, try Nickled and Dimed to Death, an author who tried living on minimum wage with a reliable vehicle, and described the obstacles at every turn.

#158 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 04:56 PM | Reply

"this is just class warfare masquerading as "society demands sobriety" except not from the CEO class"

All I know is, in the Arts, they DO have random drug tests...

...and if you don't fail, they kick you out.

#159 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 04:59 PM | Reply

My first IT job out of college there was a strict drug use policy. Later that guy got busted for dealing, he had two pounds on him, but the cops didn't even notice one of the pounds was mushrooms, not pot. I believe he got probation but did have to quit smoking for a few years, which is probably why he died young.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 05:00 PM | Reply

"It's easy to assume they'd just get in their new SUV and drive to the closest testing facility, down the street, putting the charge on the card with the most rewardpoints. Try someone on welfare whose car doesn't work, and doesn't have any extra money."

I was going to say "get on their iPhone and click on their Uber app"

And none of them fail to understand the test.

JFC, clownshack is here commenting on it.

How is it possible the dumbest welfare recipient in the entire state of Florida is dumber than him?

#161 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 05:02 PM | Reply

"I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of jobs I wouldn't qualify for in a thousand lifetimes require sobriety. "

FT

#162 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 05:03 PM | Reply

"I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of jobs don't require sobriety."

Back in the 70s I was tending bar in the same building as the KC Board of Trade. Every day at lunch the traders would come in, and most would get the martini basket, the literal "three-martini lunch".

Then they'd go back upstairs, semi-smashed, and gamble till mid-afternoon with other people's money.

#163 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 05:05 PM | Reply

"And none of them fail to understand the test. JFC, clownshack is here commenting on it."

That's my point. Clownshack can read, spell, buy a computer, as well as (no doubt) drive, pay his rent, and converse about a multitude of subjects.

Now imagine a poorest-of-the-poor circle where 10% of the folks can't do any of the above.

#164 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 05:10 PM | Reply

Clownshack can read, spell, buy a computer, as well as (no doubt) drive, pay his rent, and converse about a multitude of subjects.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time too.

Eberly never forgave me for laughing at him for tripping.

#165 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 05:33 PM | Reply

"That's my point. Clownshack can read, spell, buy a computer, as well as (no doubt) drive, pay his rent, and converse about a multitude of subjects."

If you say so.

#166 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 05:36 PM | Reply

"So far that doesn't make me wrong, or a liar,"

Actually, it does exactly that. You called me a liar for posting information that you now accept at the truth - without ever admitting you were wrong or apologizing.

"it just means I posted what I could find because you never even bothered. When you were confronted did you post any information? No. Nothing."

I gave you a simple condition for me to post additional links. You refused. I am not going to play you 'chase ever more links' game when the end result is not going to be an admission on your end - which I am now proven 100% right in doing as you and Danforth still refuse to accept you were wrong.

"Don't act all smug for being a king-size jackass and not doing the basics."

I provided a link. You wanted another which I would have provided had you agreed to the most basic of items - admitting you are wrong when presented with the information you demand. You refused to do so because you never intended to have a legitimate debate.

"All I care about is accurate data backed up by citations to it."

That is a bold face lie. If it was true, you would have agreed to my simple condition.

"You're the one making all kinds of judgements and conclusions on what it means. Why would anyone believe anything you post? You have no credibility in the first place.
#113 | POSTED BY YAV"

I stated 1600 people fell off welfare and the libs like you either didn't know or were knowingly lying about this fact. What I stated then was 100% and it is 100% true now.

#167 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 06:17 PM | Reply

"I stated 1600 people fell off welfare"

At what cost?
Why did they stop testing?

Answer one and you'll answer the other.

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 06:56 PM | Reply

Claudio can't explain why they stopped the program he claims was so successful.

But Claudio is sure the program was a success.

What does any of this have to do with children in America not receiving enough to eat?

Who knows.

But it's a successful distraction.

Fkkk poor people who use drink or use drugs. Their kids deserve to suffer. - Republican Motto.

#169 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 07:38 PM | Reply

-Claudio can't explain why they stopped the program he claims was so successful.

Perhaps it accomplished several goals.

1. Kicked the druggies off
2. Determined the rest weren't druggies and advertised that
3. Satisfied the crowd who wanted something done.

Now, that's not my list. Meaning that's not what I wanted to happen because it caused pain for kids and the legitimately needy.

Now, for perpetual losers who want to take free money from actual tax payers and buy drugs with it ... ... they want everyone to get high on free money. It's their "right!!"

#170 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 07:45 PM | Reply

LOL now Eberly says nobody on welfare uses drugs.

#171 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 07:47 PM | Reply

-Fkkk poor people who use drink or use drugs. Their kids deserve to suffer.

What about poor people without kids?

Fkkk them or give them booze and drugs anyway?

#172 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 07:47 PM | Reply

"I stated 1600 people fell off welfare"

But didn't address how many of them were innocent. Or indigent.

#173 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 07:50 PM | Reply

-But didn't address how many of them were innocent. Or indigent.

I did. It's just redundant at that point ... .

JK

#174 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 07:52 PM | Reply

Perhaps it accomplished several goals.

If the program was successful.

Why would they end it?

Too successful?

They saved so much money that ONE TIME that they never needed to use it again. Ever.

That's your answer?

#175 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 08:05 PM | Reply

What about poor people without kids?
#172 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm a strong proponent of Universal Basic Income.

All that money would go back into the local economy and would help this country a lot more than giving subsidies to billionaires or bailing out the banks and Wall Street, over and over and over again ...

#176 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-03-14 08:08 PM | Reply

-If the program was successful.

Why would they end it?"

I said it accomplished some goals ... . I didn't say successful.

But after it purged people and the results from the remaining recipients satisfied the supporters ... ..then it sort of gave them a permission slip to end or at least suspend it.

#177 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-14 08:14 PM | Reply

"Claudio can't explain why they stopped the program he claims was so successful.
#169 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

It was stopped because a federal court blocked it under Obama - because Democrats need to keep people poor and on drugs so they keep voting Democrat.

#178 | Posted by Claudio at 2023-03-14 09:01 PM | Reply

It was stopped because a federal court blocked it under Obama - because Democrats need to keep people poor and on drugs so they keep voting Democrat.
#178 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

Judge Mary Stenson Scriven was a George W. Bush appointee:

Scriven started her judicial career as a United States magistrate judge of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida from 1997 to 2008. Scriven was nominated as a U.S. District Judge to the same jurisdiction by President George W. Bush on July 10, 2008

en.wikipedia.org

#179 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 09:07 PM | Reply

"because Democrats"

You lost the debate the moment you proclaimed everyone who pissed hot voted blue.

#180 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-14 09:10 PM | Reply

It was stopped because a federal court blocked it under Obama - because Democrats need to keep people poor and on drugs so they keep voting Democrat.
#178 | POSTED BY CLAUDIO

The court backed up Scrivens' ruling is one of the most conservative courts in the nation:

Judge Scrivens rejected these arguments as factually and legally insufficient when she granted a preliminary injunction temporarily halting the law late in 2011. Then the 11th Circuit, one of the most conservative federal appeals courts in the nation, did, too. Language from the 11th Circuit ruling last year that upheld Judge Scrivens' injunction gives you the best sense of how far short Florida fell in meeting its obligation to keep its citizens free from "suspicionless drug testing."

www.theatlantic.com

#181 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-03-14 09:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#178 ... because Democrats need to keep people poor and on drugs so they keep voting Democrat. ...

Got a link for that?


thx.

#182 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-14 09:35 PM | Reply

Claudio, #25, #30.
YOU called ME a liar.
I didn't call you a liar.
Your reading comprehension sucks.
You're a true "Republican" - nothing but projection.

You'd think you might have gone back and reread and maybe applied some comprehension skills to:
#30 - I'm not a liar and I'm not lying. I cited my sources, the data, and the actual lawsuit. I called all that out. I also said I couldn't find some numbers. What a dishonest POS to take part of what I posted, ignore what I said.

GFY.

#32 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2023-03-14 09:52 AM | FLAG: | FUNNY: 1 | NEWSWORTHY 1

Oh and yes, GFY. Again.

#183 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:02 PM | Reply

Once again, Gal brings the truth!

"Florida taxpayers are on the hook for more than $1.5 million in legal fees - including nearly $1 million to civil-rights lawyers - because of Gov. Rick Scott's failed push to force welfare applicants and tens of thousands of state workers to submit to suspicion-less drug tests."

This went on for four years of litigation and multiple court decisions- all striking down the law.

Final blow: a "federal appeals court ruled in December that the state's mandatory, suspicion-less drug testing of applicants in the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, program is an unconstitutional violation of Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government."

After the ruling, "Scott decided to walk away from the lawsuit."

Read more at: www.miamiherald.com

#184 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#182 look up homeless industrial complex.

Plenty of eye opening facts about homelessness being expanded to support the non profits.

Look up non profits for illegal immigration. They are against open borders. Why? Destroys their income.

It's easy to extrapolate.

#185 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-03-14 10:17 PM | Reply

OMG.

#186 | Posted by YAV at 2023-03-14 10:22 PM | Reply

"Look up non profits for illegal immigration. They are against open borders. Why? Destroys their income."

Everybody but you is against open borders.

Especially since you can't even define open borders.

#187 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-14 11:41 PM | Reply

"Better question Joe; why should I underwrite the alternative lifestyle of substance abusers?"

A positive test doesn't demonstrate abuse. You might look into why you'd use loaded language to justify harming children.

#188 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-03-15 09:53 AM | Reply

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