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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, March 15, 2023

Michael Tucker: They were the army we had. They fought an enemy they couldn't always see in a land they didn't understand for reasons that were never entirely clear. In the midst of the pandemic, I visited the men and spoke with them about how they make sense of their role in a war that has yet to be fully reckoned with.

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The explanation was simple: Elect an oil man president, get a war for oil.

We got attacked by SAUDI ARABIA on 9/11, so bush invaded AFGHANISTAN because the saudis owned him, and IRAQ because oil companies wanted him to.

We blew up the entire mideast, created a wave of migrants into europe which resulted in a rising wave of fascism, got hundreds of thousands killed, and wasted 7 trillion dollars.

All because we have an insane election system where the person who gets fewer votes wins.

#1 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-15 03:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

#1 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Very well said.

Let's add "because he tried to kill my daddy" as the reason Bush went for his puppetmaster, Cheney's plan.

A war plan rolled out as the very first item at the very first meeting of the National Security Council in February 2021; months before 9/11, complete with maps marking oilfields and Cheney's opening statement, "we're going in."

That's the firsthand account of then NSC member Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, who Cheney had fired for speaking truth to power.

#2 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2023-03-15 04:20 PM | Reply

Don't know how to explain it?
I got you bro!

I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-15 04:22 PM | Reply

The Iraq War allowed Dumya to realize his dream of tossing the remains of dead American soldiers into a garbage dump.

www.nydailynews.com

#4 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2023-03-15 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

W was easily the most damaging president of my lifetime. I have him in the bottom 10 all-time.

#5 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-03-15 04:28 PM | Reply

We did the same thing in 'Nam, with the same results.

Although, back then the People, young and old and middle age alike took to the streets in massive protests in cities across America to stop the war.

Today they are all too busy either trying to keep their homes and or glued to some screen of unreality or another... and often too repressed and depressed to move much at all.

The 1 percenters, who learned their lesson after Nam and fought back with Reagan and Thatcher's economics of monetarism and the fantasy of supply side tinkle down.... not to mention stacking the SC to get dark money in control of Congress and the Courts... they are now in full control with the country paralyzed by their plutocratic polarization, and fighting each other over Super Stupid cultural and social issues rather than guillotining the real enemy.


#6 | Posted by Corky at 2023-03-15 04:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

W was easily the most damaging president of my lifetime. I have him in the bottom 10 all-time.

#5 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Really?

Trump is the most damaging in mine, and if he's not at the absolute bottom of presidents it's hard to see why not.

Republicans have delivered Trump, Bush II, and Nixon. Failures all.

It's like they want the country to come apart.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-15 04:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

I'm nostalgic for the Iraq War because it was the last time the Right exported its paranoid hatred to persons not also Americans.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-15 04:57 PM | Reply

How to explain it?

You got ufcked over for Dick Cheney to get paid very very handsomely to electrocute US soldiers in the shower, expose them to toxic burn pit fumes so your friends remains could return home and be dumped in a landfill.

Despite all of the platitudes and songs by Lee Greenwood you were nothing than a disposable gear in the MIC war machine.

The shareholders and CEO of Raytheon, Kellog Brown and Root, thank you from the bottom of their wallets just not enough to actually want to pay taxes to take care of your broken minds and bodies. For those you can just go off under a highway overpass and rot.

#9 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-03-15 04:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The American Right, I think, has always been a vicious stew of superstition and hate. It has always and forever looked for enemies. It does this, in large part, because they won't look at or work on themselves. MAGA is an emotional construct based upon mental illness, in which the afflicted seek to make the entire world come into line with their fever dreams.

#10 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-15 05:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

W was easily the most damaging president of my lifetime. I have him in the bottom 10 all-time.

#5 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

That's Republican presidents for you. And yet you'll keep voting for them and pretending to dislike them after they leave office.

#11 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-03-15 05:01 PM | Reply

"Trump is the most damaging in mine"

Exactly. The most current. The newest toy in your toybox.

Until the next cabbage patch doll comes out......

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-15 05:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

We told you so. We antiwar protesters were correct again. That's what happens when you illegally invade a foreign country.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-03-15 05:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#6 | POSTED BY CORKY

Those protesters during the Vietnam war weren't just protesting the war, they were protesting the draft.

I guaran-damn-tee you there would have been just as much hell raised on the streets of the US during the Iraq War(s) had they forced un-enlisted American teenagers to their deaths in a desert or jailed them for refusing to do so.

Curious why you're ignoring that crucial variable.

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-03-15 05:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

W was easily the most damaging president of my lifetime. I have him in the bottom 10 all-time.

#5 | Posted by BellRinger

He was. Until the party you keep supporting elected a guy who literally attempted to end democracy, and ushered your party into an era of total lies, hatred, and fear.

#15 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-15 05:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

There are times when you are an amazing cynic.

I don't see how that helps you or anyone.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-15 05:43 PM | Reply

Republicans have delivered Trump, Bush II, and Nixon. Failures all.

#7 | Posted by Zed

Not just failures. CRIMINALS ALL. Who left the nation far worse than they found it.

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-15 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-There are times when you are an amazing cynic.

I could never reach your status as a cynic, Zed.

You believe you're near the end.

gun
torture
murder
etc..

it's all waiting on you out there, Zed. Death, destruction, disappointment. Not getting what you want.

It's literally the end of the world....with lots of snakes and spiders.

You calling anybody else a cynic....that's funny.

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-15 05:46 PM | Reply

"and ushered your party into an era of total lies, hatred, and fear."

But that's all republicans.

Since Reagan, at least.

lies
hatred
fear

all of it, right?

#19 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-15 05:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Curious why you're ignoring that crucial variable.

It's a distinction with little difference to the outcome.

Draft cards were being burned, but so were bras... it was the times, bruh.

The draft helped start things up, but as long as the protests were just peaceful hippies or violent Weatherman...
nada happened until the Greatest Gen got stirred up and came into the streets along with their kids and grandkids.

But we aren't going to have a draft again here unless Pres Tiny D needs troops to protect us against Hillary's Imaginary Pizza Place Pedophiles.

But if you have some ideas on how to get the kids and their "I got mine!" parents offa their butts and into the streets, I'm listening.

Because sometimes people forget that all the old hippies, not even most of them, sold out for Reaganism and disco, and are still around to protest with the kids.

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2023-03-15 06:06 PM | Reply

"I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire. Once we got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power? What kind of government? Would it be a Sunni government, a ----- government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Baath party? Would it be fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. It makes no sense at all."

Dick Cheney, March 1991

#21 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2023-03-15 06:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

A lot of people have forgotten how truly horrible W was for America. He makes oil paintings of cute dogs now, so all is forgiven, I guess.

T***p was terrible, but for different reasons...I think his potential to be the worst ever was always outweighed by his incompetence. Dubya's preznitsy was actualized...

#22 | Posted by chuffy at 2023-03-15 06:35 PM | Reply

that NOT all the old hippies

missing word syndrome - MWS

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2023-03-15 06:37 PM | Reply

#18 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You're like a glass of flat soda pop, EB.

Eventually someone will pour you out.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-15 06:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

W was easily the most damaging president of my lifetime. I have him in the bottom 10 all-time.

#5 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Yet you were right there cheering on the war of aggression. You can try to revise, but Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

#25 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-03-15 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"You're like a glass of flat soda pop, EB."

with spiders? No spiders? WTF???

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-15 08:13 PM | Reply

Bill Clinton was the most damaging president in my lifetime after W.

Trump was a piker by comparison. W. was the worst by far. He waged aggressive war and justified it with LIES.

More civilian deaths in Iraq than have been sustained by Ukraine in a year of war.

Bush never got held to account,he's an Elder Statesman to many.

Just like Putin will be after they defeat the Ukrainian armed forces.

Impunity is a Bitch, especially when it's not American's who have it.

Bad precedents have consequences,Putin used the American example in Iraq to justify his war.

#27 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-03-15 09:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

= Bad precedents have consequences

The idea that Vlad's Excellent Invasion is the US's fault because the US did bad ----, too... is juvenile at best.

And very, very sadly mistaken.

Russia is responsible for what they do no matter what anyone else did.

Of course, Iraq, such as it is, still belongs to Iraqis.

There is no case in which Russia wins and the Ukraine still belongs to the Ukrainians.

So, these two things are not the same... and the effort to make them the same is lame, lame, lame.

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2023-03-15 11:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

No,they are not the same. Russia has a legitimate security interest in pacifying a hostile Ukraine. The US waged war on Iraq for little more than W's personal whim.

Russia won't annex all of the Ukraine,just what they already have occupied. Including the rest of the annexed oblasts if possible.

Invading Ukraine was not a good thing, I wish the Russians hadn't done it.

But they have a far more real and vital interest in this war than the US ever did in Iraq.

Iraq was hubris, and deception,and cynical beyond imagination.

Ukraine was a bad decision made under pressure.

In the balance,I'd say Iraq was more evil.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-03-15 11:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Iraq was hubris, and deception,and cynical beyond imagination.
Ukraine was a bad decision made under pressure.
In the balance,I'd say Iraq was more evil.

POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2023-03-15 11:44 PM | REPLY

Still carrying Putin's water I see. Sad that be.

#30 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-03-16 12:01 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

The Bush administration claimed Iraq was a credible threat to Americans, In North America.

Iraq is 8,000 Miles from the American Atlantic coast. They had no ICBM's or really anything,that could do damage to Americans here.

They had no weapons of mass destruction. It was all lies and exaggeration.

Ukraine is less than 500 miles from Moscow. On the same landmass with no mountains or other natural barriers.

The Ukrainian government was persecuting and shelling their own people in a civil war that was largely fomented by the US.

Now NATO is arming and advising the Ukrainians in an open proxy war.


Iraq was isolated,sanctioned and starved for years before the US invaded with
"shock and awe". They were sitting ducks,no match for the US blitzkrieg.

Russia is waging a very different kind of war in Ukraine.

#31 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-03-16 12:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

- pacifying a hostile Ukraine.

That's hilarious. What was Ukraine going to do, invade Russia??

- Ukraine was a bad decision made under pressure.

Yes, poor Vlad the Victim, forced to invade.

Let's be honest. Iraq has about as much to do with Ukraine as Ukraine has to do with Nazis.... so mot much at all.

- Now NATO is arming and advising the Ukrainians in an open proxy war.

Yeah, NOW... since Vlad started murdering children there; targeting population centers, not military objectives.

#32 | Posted by Corky at 2023-03-16 12:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'd say Iraq was more evil.

Saddam was an ------- but he did keep Iran from wandering too far out of its lane.

#33 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-03-16 12:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The invasion of Iraq was more evil, not the Iraqi regime.

#34 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-03-16 12:35 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The shareholders and CEO of Raytheon, Kellog Brown and Root, thank you from the bottom of their wallets just not enough to actually want to pay taxes to take care of your broken minds and bodies. For those you can just go off under a highway overpass and rot.

#9 | Posted by Nixon

And Halliburton. A company Cheney ran before becoming VP. A company that got hundreds of billions during that war.

Before becoming VP, Cheney relocated nearly all of Halliburton's subsidiaries official addresses to a single room in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying U.S. taxes.

#35 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2023-03-16 12:34 PM | Reply

Bill Clinton was the most damaging president in my lifetime after W.

Trump was a piker by comparison.

#27 | Posted by Effeteposer

When did clinton attempt a fascist coup to end american democracy?

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-16 03:42 PM | Reply

And Halliburton. A company Cheney ran before becoming VP. A company that got hundreds of billions during that war.
Before becoming VP, Cheney relocated nearly all of Halliburton's subsidiaries official addresses to a single room in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying U.S. taxes.

#35 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2023-03-16 12:34 PM

And now you and your homies just love Dick and Liz after the MAGA's sent Liz packing in Wyoming...

#37 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-03-16 04:15 PM | Reply

"now you and your homies just love Dick and Liz..."

Oh, I don't think lefties like Dick Cheney. At all.

And Liz only looks good when compared to Empty G.

#38 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-16 04:18 PM | Reply

And now you and your homies just love Dick and Liz after the MAGA's sent Liz packing in Wyoming...

#37 | Posted by lfthndthrds

Find me any liberal praising dick cheney or admit you're a liar.

#39 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-16 04:22 PM | Reply

Tell me you didn't want to defend Liz and her daddy after she got ---- -stomped in WY.

#40 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-03-16 04:42 PM | Reply

Tell me you didn't want to defend Liz and her daddy after she got ---- -stomped in WY.

#40 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

She lost re-election for standing up for America rather than Dear Sociopath.

#41 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-16 04:56 PM | Reply

| POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Conservative people used to do things like that: stand up for America.

But then patriotism simply got in the way of the Jerry Springer show of their fantasies, so they ditched it.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-16 04:58 PM | Reply

POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

So there I went and defended Liz Cheney. But credit always where credit is due. And here's to that future time when the Republican Party actually believes again in core American values, rather than whatever sewer has taken them over.

#43 | Posted by Zed at 2023-03-16 05:01 PM | Reply

Tell me you didn't want to defend Liz and her daddy after she got ---- -stomped in WY.

#40 | Posted by lfthndthrds

You seem to think liz and her daddy are the same person. Now show me one liberal praising dick cheney or admit you're a liar.

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-16 05:05 PM | Reply

LOL lefthandedturd inherently insulting Liz Cheney for doing the absolute minimum to be a patriotic American.

TOO FARKING FUNNY

#45 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-03-16 05:05 PM | Reply

"You seem to think liz and her daddy are the same person."

To morons like you she was her daddy until she distanced herself from Trump.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2023-03-16 05:07 PM | Reply

"Daddy, What's Vietnam?"

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-03-16 05:15 PM | Reply

To morons like you she was her daddy until she distanced herself from Trump.

#46 | Posted by eberly

Link? Quote? Evidence?

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2023-03-16 05:19 PM | Reply

"To morons like you she was her daddy until she distanced herself from Trump."

Um, don't look now, but she was.

It's not like she was a Corker, or a Flake, who were Never Trumpers until it came time to vote, then they were Always Trumpers...

...no, Liz was an Always Trumper from the start, and even got a note of thanks from Trump on Election Night 2020 when DJT won Wyoming. She rarely, if ever, disagreed with Trump...until Jan 6th.

And ironically...her daddy distanced himself from Trump as well, so in truth...the two are still indistinguishable.

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2023-03-16 10:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#46 ... To morons like you she was her daddy until she distanced herself from Trump. ...

And the question to ask is, why did she distance herself from fmr Pres Trump?

My view is that she decided to put allegiance to the Constitution above politics. Something that many current Republicans (and the author of the #46 comment) seem to have a difficulty doing.

So yeah, I disagree with the political views of fmr Rep Cheney. I've stated that multiple times here.

However, I agree strongly with her placing the Constitution above politics in the January 6 hearings.

I do have additional questions on this topic of placing the Constitution above politics, for example, why doesn't Spkr McCarthy do the same?


#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-03-16 10:53 PM | Reply

The republican party doesn't like the Iraq war anymore.

It's woke now.

#51 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-03-17 05:51 AM | Reply

Excellent subject, and one answered by 4 letters: PNAC.

More on PNAC later, but a reassuring comment on every Iraq veteran in uniform - their service was brave, patriotic and, yes, noble. They all responded to their nation's call to duty, and many nations from all over the free world responded to that call. On the face of what the US told the world, the "just cause" was to prevent a rogue Saddam-led nation from developing WMD (since then, proved to be overstated), and to retaliate for its murderous support for Mideast suicide bomber terrorists and their survivors (true) and their increasing violence and mass murder of Its own dissenting and/or ethnically isolated populations (true in part). In addition, the Baath Parties of Iraq and Syria had squelched the functions of democratic governance and began governing like an oil-funded Mafia kleptocracy, and a bunch of Reagan/GHW Bush era "experts" & the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations convinced many patriotic leaders that a Jeffersonian democracy in Iraq would become the seed needed to combat totalitarianism across the Mideast and then elsewhere in the world.

What many who were called to serve were led to believe that was contrived by PNAC, and unwittingly by Bush Jr., however, was that Iraq was part of an evil "axis" of rogue nations that were behind the Islamist attacks committed by Al Qaeda. Still, the fact that this American-made falsehood was contrived, there was a partial truth to it - to PNAC and others who aspired to see a more democratic and pro-West world, Iraq, North Korea, and Iran were examples of unpredictable anti-Western irritants with a penchant for internal brutality. But there was no "axis" between them like there was in WW2 between Tojo, Hitler, & Mussolini.

Nonetheless every Coalition serviceman must be commended for faithfully completing a challenging overthrow of a dictatorship in short order, and then combatting a grassroots insurgency that the Coalition's leaders had not anticipated nor planned for. And through it all, even though the Iraq War failed miserably at reducing Islamism and its terrorist components (instead it became a proving ground for grassroots terrorist tactics), it did depose a dictator and created a partially Western-aligned, partially functioning democratically inclined constitutional government in the center of the Mideast's -------------- Oil Patch, and it helped a bunch of targeted ethnic minorities survive and become represented in Iraq.

So, Iraq War vets, stay proud of your service to righteousness. Though the war itself was conflated Saddam with Al Qaeda (the Baathists and ------ generally despised Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and the Taliban), and though some commands required mission safety protocols, nearly every single Coalition service person and those supporting the Coalition's efforts did their duty with righteous intentions.

In "Just War" theory, the highest levels of US government contrived a war that they believed would lead to noble outcomes and that would show that dictatorships could be overthrown and that the world could become safer for democracy. Was that "unjust". Is it fo us to judge?

Btw, for more background on PNAC, see: www.mit.edu

#52 | Posted by Augustine at 2023-03-17 08:17 AM | Reply

Funny, I just read an article a monthish ago about a veteran who regularly used his service in that war as his basis for living an excellent life. Cherry-picking to make a point is bad in itself, being a person who falls for it by reading an article and immediately accepting its validity as a measure of an event because it meets your platform is even worse.

#53 | Posted by humtake at 2023-03-17 12:15 PM | Reply

Funny, I just read an article a monthish ago about a veteran who regularly used his service in that war as his basis for living an excellent life. Cherry-picking to make a point is bad in itself, being a person who falls for it by reading an article and immediately accepting its validity as a measure of an event because it meets your platform is even worse.

#53 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

You are talking about his Service. Not the War.

Do you not understand the difference?

#54 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-03-17 12:23 PM | Reply

My bet is on "no".

#55 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-03-17 02:08 PM | Reply

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