ICC Concerned by Russia's 'threats' over Putin Warrant

Medvedev says Putin arrest would be 'war'
www.dw.com

...Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has warned that any attempt to arrest Vladimir Putin abroad would be seen as "a declaration of war."

The International Criminal Court (ICC), based in The Hague, issued an arrest warrant for Putin last week for war crimes.

"Let's imagine " obviously this situation which will never be realized " but nevertheless lets imagine that it was realized: The current head of the nuclear state went to a territory, say Germany, and was arrested," Medvedev said in a video posted to Telegram late on Wednesday.

"What would that be? It would be a declaration of war on the Russian Federation," he said. "And, in that case, all our assets -- all our missiles etc. -- would fly to the Bundestag, to the chancellor's office."

Medvedev, who served as Russia's president from 2008 until 2012 and is now deputy chairman of the country's Security Council, has made increasingly hawkish statements about the invasion of Ukraine.

Russia, which is not a party to the ICC, initially called the arrest warrant "null and void."

On Monday, Russia's Investigative Committee opened its criminal investigation in to the ICC's chief prosecutor Karim Khan. It said Khan's actions may have breached two Russian laws relating to accusing an innocent person of a crime, and "preparing an attack on a representative of a foreign state enjoying international protection, in order to complicate international relations."

On Wednesday, the ICC's legislative body condemned "threats" against the tribunal over its warrant....

... It said Khan's actions may have breached two Russian laws relating to accusing an innocent person of a crime ...

Russia has a law like that?

#11 LL-Given that Russia is a country where you are guilty before being charged, it must have expired from lack of use.

Bush looked in Putin's eyes and saw his Own Soul.

#13 | Posted by Effeteposer

Bush and you love the same tyrant. Aren't you proud?

I don't like Putin. But Russia has a case for NATO overreach.

The invasion was too much but it's the only thing NATO and the West will understand.

They had to get their attention somehow.

I just hope somebody blinks before Armageddon.

"Russia has a case for NATO overreach."

Maybe they did, once upon a time.
But Invading Ukraine was a really bad way to make that case.
The invasion has revealed how NATO is the only thing keeping Russia at bay.

"I don't like Putin. But Russia has a case for NATO overreach."

Did I miss some ruling or decree from the North Atlantic Council?

"I just hope somebody blinks before Armageddon."

It may well be on it's way.

I would advise that you drop your pro-Putin act should he elect to attack a western country. I don't think your position is popular now. It may get you hurt then.

War fever is a real thing. You are no doubt correct. Anonymous blogs are the only safe place to play at being out of step with the rushing to war.

That's why I think world war is coming. Both sides will torment and imprison dissenters.

Even if it's devil's advocate type behavior.

I saw similar ---- when I was openly and stridently against the Iraq debacle in 2003.

I was banned from libraries and told I had no right to speak openly against the war. Told to shut up etc.

I know all about war hysteria.

It's stupid and why this war will likely end in nuclear fire.

"It's stupid and why this war will likely end in nuclear fire."

Maybe, but consider the alternative.

The emergence of a new Soviet Union that does what it pleases because no one is willing to stand up to a nuclear bully.

This is kind of my thing, but I am highly confident the west will end Russia before Russia ends the west. There is just too much west, and too few 'Russians' who care about what Putin is selling.

And If I'm being honest, I think most people who do what I do would welcome a conventional fight with Russia. It would be like playing a video game on the easy level.

A good way to get some vital experience if we ever needed to fight China, which would be a real peer adversary.

Russia is a coherent society in a way the US certainly Isn't.

There's too much distraction and lack of coherent intent by the people at large. No tolerance for losses or sacrifice.

Russia may lose badly but the West will surely be sorry they tested them if they already aren't.

Open war means American deaths and social restrictions that will cause massive unrest if not suppressed, probably violently.

Vietnam will be a happy memory by comparison if tens of thousands of Americans start coming home in bags.

They won't be able to censor and spin THAT.

- Russia is a coherent society in a way the US certainly Isn't.

That sounds a bit incoherent... perhaps you'd care to expound on what is a coherent society.

Russia is a basket case at the moment, btw... it's people are very afraid of their government's actions, but feel they have no recourse.

In Russia, you see, the last person you would ever ask for help would be a Police person... as they werk for the state directly, not for local government, and you are more likely to get jacked up by a policeman than helped.

Inside Russia is a good source of info as a yt channel.

...perhaps you'd care to expound on what is a coherent society.

One that has had its TV and internet shut down?

...perhaps you'd care to expound on what is a coherent society.

One that can't freely express itself for fear of 15 years in prison?

Or sarcastically, one that freely expresses itself on pain of spending 15 years in prison.

"Open war means American deaths and social restrictions that will cause massive unrest if not suppressed, probably violently."

Really?

Like it was in WWII?

Like it was in WWII?

Somehow I can't see rationing of US civilian goods to support the war effort being likely.

"Somehow I can't see rationing of US civilian goods to support the war effort being likely."

Sacrificing for the Common Good: Rationing in WWII www.nationalww2museum.org

These days, Repubilcans only believe in sacrificing for the common good when it comes to the 125 people who die from guns every day in America.

We didn't have right wing talk radio or Trump and Trump wannabes during WW2.

Our whole society was different. We also had internment camps for the West coast Japanese. War censors,and believe not or not the consensus for war was nowhere near as absolute as the propaganda teaches.

Vietnam ripped the country apart, why wouldn't a war of choice with Russia?

#30 | Posted by Effeteposer

Are you saying russia's war of choice will rip it apart?

or not because of putin's fascist control of information that russians receive?

The Russians,wrongly or not, largely view this war as existential. It's a war with NATO to them at this point.

America has no such stake in whether or not Ukraine looks West or not.

This is just sport to the US. There's nothing vital about Ukraine to Americans.

Vietnam ripped the country apart,why wouldn't a war of choice with Russia?

No draft, for one thing.

The Russians,wrongly or not, largely view this war as existential. It's a war with NATO to them at this point.

America has no such stake in whether or not Ukraine looks West or not.

This is just sport to the US. There's nothing vital about Ukraine to Americans.

#32 | Posted by Effeteposer

So you're saying putin's propaganda and information control is so effective that his entire country lives in delusion.i

America has a vast stake in whether or not fascism is allowed to start wiping out democracies.

- America has no such stake in whether or not Ukraine looks West or not.

America has no such stake in whether or not Germany looks West.(circa 1936)

Chamberlain much? Of is that Charles Lindbergh-ish?

Or how about, "they came for the Ukrainians, but I wasn't a Ukrainian."

"Policy & History - U.S. Embassy in Ukraine" ua.usembassy.gov

U.S.-Ukraine Relations
The United States established diplomatic relations with Ukraine in 1991, following its independence from the Soviet Union. The United States attaches great importance to the success of Ukraine's transition to a modern democratic state with a flourishing market economy. U.S. policy is centered on realizing and strengthening a democratic, prosperous, and secure Ukraine more closely integrated into Europe and Euro-Atlantic structures. The U.S.-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership highlights the importance of the bilateral relationship and outlines enhanced cooperation in the areas of defense, security, economics and trade, energy security, democracy, and cultural exchanges. It also emphasizes the continued commitment of the United States to support enhanced engagement between the North

Too many Hitler analogies. Try to stay relevant. 2023 is not 1938,it's more like 1914 with entangling alliances leading to unnecessary war.

Where were all the Hitler analogies when Bush invaded Iraq? Based on total fabrications.

Iraq invaded Iran,we helped. Nobody called Saddam evil for that until he attacked the wrong country.

The US attacked Vietnam because they had the wrong economic system.

Nobody said much about that being like Hitler,but it was.

Korea too. Wrong economic system,massive aggressive war.

I've never heard Hitler's name invoked in connection with that.

Where were all the Hitler analogies when Bush invaded Iraq?

You're kidding, right? They seldom mentioned Saddam's name without using Hitler's in the same sentence.

-Too many Hitler analogies.

Dumb People can't use words to the desired effect on their own so they try to hijack words for an artificial dramatic effect.

Words like Hitler, Nazi, and fascist.

Joe McCarthy tried to label people with "commie".

Today, we're infested with a bunch of McCarthy wannabes

- 2023 is not 1938

Um.... yes it sure F'n is.

It's the Return of the America Firsters, in spirit and even in name.

www.theatlantic.com

- Words like Hitler, Nazi, and fascist.

All of which words pertained to the political far right wing populists who adored white nationalist authoritarian leaders who were actually in bed with the great industrialists of their time in Germany, and others corporate leaders in the US including the anti-Semite Henry Ford.

Mussolini and Hitler and Trump and Putin are made from the same political cloth.

If it steps like a goose, it's a Nazi.

@#40 ... All of which words pertained to the political far right wing populists who adored white nationalist authoritarian leaders who were actually in bed with the great industrialists of their time in Germany, and others corporate leaders in the US including the anti-Semite Henry Ford. ...

Maybe that is why the Conservatives are so against education.

Education shows their roots....

@#37 ... Too many Hitler analogies. ...

Coming from an alias that often speaks of imaginary Nazis in Ukraine.

All of which words pertained to the political far right wing populists

I smell another MB Socialism lecture coming.

Yeah, maybe this time we'll finally get it through our thick heads about how that Hitler was really Lenin in drag.

You're saying Putin is Hitler in drag,which is just as Stupid.

Putin is like Fredrick the Great. Waging a preemptive war against entrenched and unified allies.

The alliance was choking Russia's viability long term. Russia invaded in a misguided attempt to get the first punch in.

They saw war as inevitable so they hit first.

STUPID,no question.

Were they wrong about war being inevitable?

That's the conundrum.

Putin is a right wing authoritarian put in power by 1 percenters who is now having the oligarchs pushed out of windows.

Much the same as Hitler treated his enemies after the German Industrialists agreed to support him.

They couldn't be more alike in political views or actual personal histories if they tried.

Two peas in a pod.

Scholars haven't missed this either...

According to Jonathan Katz, a German Marshall Fund senior fellow and director of Democracy Initiatives, Putin "is this century's equivalent to Hitler, and the threat he poses to Europe, U.S. and global security extends far beyond the current conflict in Ukraine."

"Like Hitler, Putin has amassed unquestionable power in Russia, wiped out political opposition with little to no check on his regime and its use of military force or other hybrid tools to brutally carve out and illegally conquer territory in surrounding nations."

Putin, Katz tells VOA, "disturbingly mirrors traits of Hitler " cold and calculated, showing no remorse or interests in the sanctity of human life."

Katz, who formerly led the U.S. Agency for International Development's Europe and Eurasia programs and co-chaired a trans-Atlantic task force on Ukraine, says akin to Hitler and the Nazis in justifying force, "Putin also uses disinformation, scapegoating and dehumanizing language."

"Tragically, what the world is witnessing today invokes memories of the Nazi blitzkrieg," says Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish human rights organization."

www.voanews.com

"Putin's Russia rose like Hitler's Germany " and could end the same

"The striking similarities between Vladimir Putin's Russia and Adolf Hitler's Germany are not accidental. Both regimes had " the past tense is intentional " the same historical trajectory because both were the product of imperial collapse and its destabilizing aftermath on the one hand and the emergence of a strong leader promising to make the country great again on the other."

thehill.com

Too many Hitler analogies. Try to stay relevant. 2023 is not 1938,it's more like 1914 with entangling alliances leading to unnecessary war.

#37 | Posted by Effeteposer

If the mustache fits...

Germany was run by a tyrant who wanted to expand germany and return it to its former glory. He took over the media stations and killed or jailed anyone who spoke the truth.

Ringing any bells yet?

The alliance was choking Russia's viability long term. Russia invaded in a misguided attempt to get the first punch in.

#46 | Posted by Effeteposer

So you're saying russia's viability depended on invading its' neighbors?

Why couldnt they just develop a modern economy and sell goods like every other first world nation?

- That's the conundrum.

It's only confusing and difficult a problem for someone who wants it to be.

@#46 ... Waging a preemptive war ...

So... your alias seems to admit that it is an unprovoked invasion.

... against entrenched and unified allies. ...

Not really.

The EU and NATO were starting to look at Russia in a different light. Economic trade between the West and Russia was increasing. NATO was lowering their level of arms.

But Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine has changed that.

Both the EU and NATO are now more united than ever. With two countries now asking to join NATO. One of which, Finland, shares a significant border with Russia

Pres Putin had hoped for a quick collapse of Ukraine, and a divided NATO.

He got neither.

Strategically, Pres Putin blew it, big time.

Yet your alias is still here trying to make his disaster look good.

Stranglers - Skin Deep
www.youtube.com

Lyrics...
genius.com

...
Many people tell you that they're your friend
You believe them, you need them for what's round the river bend
Make sure that you're receiving the signals they send
'Cos brother, you've only got two hands to lend

Maybe there's someone who makes you weep
And some nights loom up ahead when you're asleep
Some days there's things on your mind you should keep
Sometimes, it's tougher to look than to leap

Better watch out for the skin deep
Better watch out for the skin deep
(Better watch out) Watch out for the skin deep
(Better watch out) Watch out for the skin deep
Better watch out for the skin deep
One day the track that you're climbing gets steep
Your emotions are frayed, and your nerves are starting to creep
Just remember the days as long as the time that you keep
Brother, you better watch out for the skin deep
...

@#46 ... They saw war as inevitable so they hit first. ...

Is that the new talking point you've been issued?

Their grossly incorrect view is the reason for their unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country?

If so...

It ain't gonna work.

Jus' sayin'

Is it grossly incorrect?

NATO had massive drills and exercises every year right on Russia's borders.

NATO armed and trained the Ukrainian military to get them up to NATO standards over time.

The whole reason for Minsk two was to give the Ukranian's time to create powerful armed forces,not to cede autonomy to the separatist governments in the Donbass.

Merkel and Poroshenko admitted that openly.
They lied about seeking peace.

The Russians may have been wrong about war being inevitable.

If so, it's easy to see how they got it wrong.

.
Me,I'm not convinced they DID get it Wrong.

When are they going to indict Biden for blowing up NordStream?

Oh, that right...the US does not recognize the authority of the ICC.

@#53 ... NATO had massive drills and exercises every year right on Russia's borders. ...

Defensive drills that now seem to have been quite appropriate in light of an aggressive Russia trying to expand its borders.

@#54 ... When are they going to indict Biden for blowing up NordStream? ...

I presume your current alias has an appropriate level of evidence.

... the US does not recognize the authority of the ICC. ...

Neither does Russia.

And your point is?

Death to Putin. Death to tyrants.

"Where were all the Hitler analogies when Bush invaded Iraq? Based on total fabrications."

That's a point worth mentioning, but consider this. When I was doing coalition targeting in the desert a few years back, the strike assets were coming from the US, UK, AUS, BEL, FRA, Jordan, and even Iraq. That's not to mention the German, New Zealand, Spanish, Portugese, and other countries providing logistical and operational support, even when they were not dropping bombs.

Personally, I think the Iraq invasion was --------. It had very little connective tissue to US national security. But it wasn't just the US who invaded Iraq. It was the US and a bunch of other countries, many of whom were not part of NATO.

In comparison, how many countries have signed on with Russia in the invasion of Ukraine? Are there any?

Oh, and FWIW, I can say that the Iraq invasion was --------, and I am not going to to to jail because of it. I am not going to lose my clearance, or my job.

I don't think a Lieutenant Colonel in the Russian Air Force could do the same.

"When are they going to indict Biden for blowing up NordStream?"

Biden blew up the Nordstream?

I love it!

How exactly did he do it again?

"I can say that the Iraq invasion was --------, and I am not going to to to jail because of it. I am not going to lose my clearance, or my job. I don't think a Lieutenant Colonel in the Russian Air Force could do the same."

Nah.

They can say the Iraq invasion was bullschittt, too.

Try the veal, folks!

- How exactly did he do it again?

According to Clownio, Dark Brandon used his Jewish-Catholic Space Laser Eyes.

But hey, Seymour Hersh, whom most professional journalists snicker at these days, says he had one witness.

@#58 ... Personally, I think the Iraq invasion was --------. ...

I do not disagree.

However, let's be specific here.

The first "invasion" of Iraq was quite surgical.

It was aimed to liberate Kuwait, which Iraq has invaded. Once that was done, fmr Pres G Bush pulled out.

It is the second invasion, the one proffered by fmr Pres GW Bush that is the scourge. (I'm being kind here.)

I was quite opposed to it at the time.

Ill also note that when the newspaper editorials were published, and those editorials had a negative view of that invasion, the Republicans at the time attacked the media.

Sound familiar?

However, it was a turbulent time. As shown by...

FROM THE EDITORS; The Times and Iraq (May 2004)
www.nytimes.com

...Over the last year this newspaper has shone the bright light of hindsight on decisions that led the United States into Iraq. We have examined the failings of American and allied intelligence, especially on the issue of Iraq's weapons and possible Iraqi connections to international terrorists. We have studied the allegations of official gullibility and hype. It is past time we turned the same light on ourselves.

In doing so -- reviewing hundreds of articles written during the prelude to war and into the early stages of the occupation -- we found an enormous amount of journalism that we are proud of. In most cases, what we reported was an accurate reflection of the state of our knowledge at the time, much of it painstakingly extracted from intelligence agencies that were themselves dependent on sketchy information. And where those articles included incomplete information or pointed in a wrong direction, they were later overtaken by more and stronger information. That is how news coverage normally unfolds.

But we have found a number of instances of coverage that was not as rigorous as it should have been. ...