Somebody find an off Ramp.

This ----- getting too dangerous.

Nukes are being prepped for WAR.

But it's all business as usual.

Carry on with the offensives and counter-offensives.

No deviation from the path is warranted at this time.

"We've got it all under control".

Putin,and Biden and Stoltenberg.

They all agree on that one thing.

And nothing else.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

That won't matter if the bombs are used.

Even if Russia did start it,what's the path forward?

More escalation,more death?

Sanctions didn't work on Russia,it was too big to contain. Escalation to nuclear war is retarded. It's especially so given the small stakes involved.

Maybe diplomacy and negotiations are in order? Total victory is not likely for NATO or Russia.

Both sides are going to have to lose something. Compromise is the only way to avoid global disaster.

This war has shown the lunacy of the the whole idea of a nuclear deterrent.

If one side is irrational enough the whole world could be impacted by the war.

Nukes are only a deterrent if the weaker side can't use them too.

In this war,they Can.

Banning nuclear arms is the policy everyone should be Persuing.

Nukes are just bullying and not effective in any practical sense.

They are in just a recipe for Ecocide.

My phone is garbage.Sorry about the repeated posts.

That isn't likely to happen. Minsk two was the best chance to avoid this but we now know it was not negotiated in good faith by NATO.

Russia hit first,but the fuse was lit by NATO.

At this point I don't see anything but more escalation,neither side wants to compromise. Total Victory is the only acceptable outcome.

Total Victory means world war. Russia will lose if that happens in all likelihood.

That doesn't mean they won't try. They're pretty effing stubborn given everything that's gone wrong for them.

Ukraine is just a staging area for a war that's not really about them.

The real war is Russia and NATO. Soon,I fear,this will become openly obvious and then we will all be -------.

The Donbass is gone, Ukraine would be better off accepting that.

But nobody likes to lose,so now we all do.

If Minsk two had been fully implemented,and the breakaway republics given autonomy in a federalist structure, if the Ukrainian's hadn't been so intent on hurting their own people for vindictive reasons because they didn't want the same outcome the Western half of Ukraine wanted,if the civil war in Ukraine could have been ended by negotiations and compromise,this war would not have happened at all.

So even though Russia hit first,I still see blame from the Ukrainian side and from the NATO interference in Ukrainian domestic governance.

The Donbass would still be securely part of Ukraine if they had been able to behave in a civil way toward the people there who weren't down with the future being planned FOR THEM by Kiev and Brussels.

So now it's war,and likely world war.

We can't control what Putin does,we can control what we do.

Paying for anything creates more if it,in this case we are subsidizing a stupid war.

Stopping the subsidies on a local war might be a good place to begin.

Defund the Ukrainian war. That's one way to get negotiations going.

Just stop shipping arms. Embargo the war. Like we embargo Cuba,like we embargoed arms to Iraq after Saddam misbehaved in Kuwait.

We've tried sanctions on Russia,they have failed to have much effect.

Starving the war is the best answer,not feeding it.

Starving Russia failed but Ukraine could be starved immediately and then they would negotiate quite readily, I believe.

We are chosing war as much as Russia is. Ukraine was never our concern to begin with,would the Ukrainian government have armed us in a war with Mexico?

It's time to mind our own business.

Ukraine wanted to persecute their own people. NATO enabled them.

Did the Russians get the memo about how benign NATO is?

Constant military drills on the borders of Russia by an alliance that had already attacked Serbia in defiance of the UN.

Mid range nukes deployed by the US in western Europe made the Russians feel safe,I'm sure.

Ukrainian shelling of the Donbass that increased daily as the Russians massed on the border.

The Russians knew what they were doing.

So did NATO.

Both sides wanted this war.

Only the Ukrainians didn't want war.

They were the clueless chumps in the middle.

Who cares if you're afraid or not? It's not about just you.

The whole ecosystem of Ukraine and Europe could be damaged for decades,and millions of people killed or injured. Not to mention the economic damage.

Playing chicken with people's lives is just so not cool.

Whether it's Putin or the West it's not Ok.

Just find a way to end this ---- already without more deaths.

Sheesh.

Is it worth counting on the sanity of a man everyone says is a megalomaniacal
Nutjob?

Which is it? Rational leader who won't Jim Jones the world?

Or crazy dictator out to conquer Europe, or die trying?

The narrative is scezhzophrenic to say the least.

Is Putin rational? Or a madman?

Is it sabre rattling? Or grim warning of intention?

The world better pray Putin has a conscience.

And this the man the NATO leadership is counting on to be rational?

If he's really that nuts why are they pushing this till something breaks?

People Do suicidal and destructive things everyday.

Is nuclear overreach really that impossible?

Maybe talking and coming to a settlement is better than risking Armageddon?

Just a thought?

Once the nukes fly they can't be called back.

War has its own Logic.

I'm not optimistic about our future has a species.

Everyone says Putin is crazy and driven to destroy,but they don't think he's got the stones to push the button if things go sideways?

That's insanity itself.

Obviously a settlement is better than nuclear winter?

Right?

Crazy people do crazy things.

Somebody tell me,why should we believe he's NOT capable of going Nuclear?

JFK negotiated with the Russians. He secretly removed missiles from Turkey and compromised about Cuba. What compromise did Biden make about the Donbass before the war started? They refused to talk about any of the Russian concerns that led to war. It was almost like they wanted the Russians to invade.

You seem kind of ignorant of history.

The Russians repeatedly asked for high level talks about NATO and the Donbass during the buildup to war. Biden called Putin a thug and other insulting things and acted like a petulant fool. The Russians didn't even recognize the breakaway republics as independent from Ukraine until one day before they invaded.

Perhaps the Russians were trying to have a dialogue then? Why were their attempts at negotiations met with insults and scorn?

Did Biden want them to invade? Was he in denial about the possibility of it actually happening?

It was major diplomatic malpractice in any case.

Your version of events is delusional.

Biden's behavior leading up to the invasion was irresponsible in the extreme.

He insulted the Russian leadership repeatedly at a time of dangerous international tension. Besides being infantile, it was counterproductive to any Diplomatic attempt to prevent war. But that didn't matter much because there was no diplomatic attempt to prevent this war.

NATO just Stonewalled all Russian attempts at negotiations. Then piled on the childish insults.

It looked to me at the time like they wanted the Russians to invade.

I was dumbfounded by that. The Ukrainian's increased their rate of fire on the separatist positions for weeks leading up to the Russian attack.

This game of geopolitical chicken won't end well for anybody.

Putin took the bait, he is responsible for attacking.

That said,So what?

Hundreds of thousands are dead. Ukraine is getting pulverized and the whole world is at risk from something but that could have been prevented.

I see no "masterful handling" of the situation by anyone.

Biden and NATO provoked this,whether intentionally or not,the dead are still gone and the future is clouded by fear and uncertainty.

The Hubris of Both Sides lead to disaster.

Everything is negotiable. That's the problem,nobody sees that.

If the situation in The Donbass had been negotiated before last February the war could have be prevented.

Negotiations now could end it before it gets any worse.

But everyone in power on both sides wants Total Victory.

This will not end well.

Whatever the outcome,I think it's pretty clear that NATO isn't a guarantor of peace. In fact, it's a trigger for wars. With potentially more to come.

NATO thinking Russia was contained and didn't need to be treated with respect and caution was one of It's many miscalculations.

Like thinking sanctions would make any difference to a peer power spanning 11 time zones that trades with the entire world.

Thinking Russia was like Venezuela,or Iran,was dumb.

Thinking the Russians would cave if things went wrong, was dumb.

If NATO had only listened to what Russia has been saying about Ukraine for years,this whole thing wouldn't have even happened.

If Minsk two had been implemented or even negotiated in good faith this disaster likely wouldn't have happened.

Arrogance leads to disaster. Both Putin and NATO miscalculated.

Now Everyone gets to pay for them being stupid.

Not everything is negotiable,that is true. I was wrong to say that.

But more IS than was in this case. The Ukrainian's didn't have to not
Implement Minsk two. NATO didn't have to refuse to have talks before the war.

The talks may have gone nowhere. Minsk two may have failed, even if implemented. The point is neither of these things were even Tried.

This war has more than one father.

If that's true than why did Russia wait so long to recognize the Donbass republics as independent? Why did they encourage the people there to stay in Ukraine?

Your narrative is incoherent and inaccurate. Propaganda often is.

I'm sure you don't.

Perhaps your certainty about what the motives for invasion were,are mistaken?

I claim no special knowledge about it.

But the Russian's behavior doesn't back up your claims about invading every one of the old Soviet Republics.

Ukraine was a special case.

If that's true why didn't he invade in 2014? Or when Trump was in charge and he had a sympathetic leader in the white house?

Why did he refuse to allow the Donbass republics to join Russia in 2015?

Why were their referenda to join Russia not accepted?

None of these activities are those of a man bent on annexing the Ukraine.

Putin pushed for full implementation of the Minsk accords,not the annexation of Ukraine.

He said the Minsk agreements were the best chance for peace and Autonomy for the Donbass within the Ukraine.

The Ukrainians themselves prevented that. And then waged war on their own people for wanting autonomy within their own country.

Why do so few people remember that? There was a peace process that Russia was willing to abide by.

NATO and the Ukrainian's were unwilling to live up to the agreements made,not Russia.

The Ukrainians sent Nazi thugs to kill innocent people,they did not respect their lives or autonomy.

Russia was wrong to invade. They should have made the Ukrainian Government's life hell by protesting with the UN.

War was a very bad tactic to employ.