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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, May 19, 2023

Illinois parents reportedly called the police after a local middle school teacher allowed her students to read a book that tackled the topics of gender and sexuality.

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Homophobic karens gonna homophobic karen.

For ---- sake, just leave people the --- alone.

#1 | Posted by Nixon at 2023-05-18 12:07 PM | Reply

What are these parents afraid of?

Really... what?

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 07:46 PM | Reply

Imagine being so full of hate...

#3 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 08:02 PM | Reply

They firmly believe tolerance of alternative lifestyles is itself sinful, dangerous, and should be discouraged at every point of intervention.

This is what happens when we treat people's religious beliefs as relevant outside their own brains all in the name of respecting religion. People get away with doing and saying all sorts of outlandish bs if they cover it in a cloak of religiosity.

#4 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-05-19 08:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#4 ... This is what happens when we treat people's religious beliefs as relevant outside their own brains all in the name of respecting religion. ...

So, this seems to be an example of, ~you must respect my religion, but I do not have to respect your religion~?

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 08:20 PM | Reply

This is an example of a police activity that should not have been funded.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-19 09:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Some direct quotes from "This Book is Gay" which the teacher recommnded for 10 and 11 year olds:
"It's more about sliding your mouth up and down the shaft of his c"k."
"Water sports/-------------: Peeing on people in a way considered sexy."
"----------: a hole in a wall or partition through which a man pokes his p""." [typically for anonymous oral sex, or for sex work at rest stops, often unprotected, commonly featured on pornographic videos - but that is not mentioned here]
"Poppers: Slang term for amyl nitrate - an aroma that gives a feeling of light-headedness." [this is a drug that gives a feeling of euphoria, lowers inhibitions, and relaxes ---- muscles - no mention in the book of the capacity for its potential use as a grooming tool/date rape aid for LGBTQIA youth. As mentioned above, the author also provides information about Grindr accounts - this is a great set up for LGBTQIA youth to meet older individuals who could be willing to share a popper or two]
"-------: Licking the bottom."
"Scat: Eating poop."
"----: Group sex."

#7 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-19 09:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

According to another link, she encouraged her 8th graders to read this book, so that is 12 to 13 year olds. Still too young for this content IMO.

#8 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-19 09:16 PM | Reply

@#7 ... Some direct quotes from "This Book is Gay" which the teacher recommnded for 10 and 11 year olds: ...

So... those parents seem to be unable to teach their kids what to read and not to read?

My parents sent me to school to learn. They also sent me to school with their guidance. I saw many books in the library I skipped over. I chose to skip over them. I did not say that no one else could read them.

Are the parents in this occurrence abdicating any guidance they provide their kids?


#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:17 PM | Reply

@#8 . ... According to another link, she encouraged her 8th graders to read this book, so that is 12 to 13 year olds. Still too young for this content IMO. ...

So, should the book be removed from the shelves, or should the teacher be~ nformed! of what may be appropriate?


There's a big difference there.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:19 PM | Reply

"In response to the incident and being placed on administrative leave, Bonner told TODAY she has decided to resign."

Another one bites the dust

The stupidifying of America continues.

Everyone get on the slip and slide to 3rd world status.

------ bunch of morons

#11 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:24 PM | Reply

#11. Did you see the subject matter in the book? Miranda posted it.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:28 PM | Reply

Heyworth Illinois.

Hmmm appears to be a traffic stop in south Illinois, in god fearing and gay hating middle americuh

Hey lady, your kids have seen far worse on the internet. Maybe they could have learned to not hate people who are different from them

ah ---- it, they are religious whackadoodles, ----em, one less teacher to babysit their fat piglets

#13 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:29 PM | Reply

#11. Did you see the subject matter in the book? Miranda posted it.

#12 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Yep, sure, call the police and book em danno.

On a book

that no one forced anyone to read, look at, touch

just given the option to spend a few minutes reading

Of course a LGBTQ hating bigot like you would condone it.

---- them and ---- you

#14 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:30 PM | Reply

Of the Illinois school leaders from 690 school districts surveyed, 73% say they have a teacher shortage problem, 93% say the shortage is as bad or worse than last school year, 95% report receiving the same or fewer applicants for vacant positions, and 92% say they have a substitute teacher program.

Declare war on teachers, that is just plain stupid. Maybe if a quality teacher had taught you something, nah you're hopeless.

#15 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:32 PM | Reply

thenationaldesk.com

a quarter of HS students identify as LGBTQ, by all means do not teach them about non heterosexual sex. What could possibly go wrong!?

#16 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:33 PM | Reply

@#12 ... Did you see the subject matter in the book? Miranda posted it. ...

The miranda7 alias posted highly selective subsections of the book.

The miranda7 did not, by any means, post the subject matter of the book.

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:33 PM | Reply

My catholic school teachers in 7th grade taught me about heterosexual sex including pictures of penises, vaginas and vivid descriptions of how these organs were supposed to work.

So, no I am not overly concerned about 13 year olds being exposed to descriptions of orgies and --------.

#18 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And, I'll ask again...

Why should this book be removed from the library?

Anyone?


#19 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:35 PM | Reply

#14. The teacher brought the book into the classroom.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:37 PM | Reply

www.cincinnati.com

10 year olds in Ohio were raped and became pregnant and refused abortions forcing them to leave the state.

You see, THAT is abominable, not teaching children about non heteronormative sex, which btw may provide them some tools to maybe avoid being raped

so ---- off puritan asshats

#21 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:37 PM | Reply

#19 it's not age appropriate.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:38 PM | Reply

#14. The teacher brought the book into the classroom.

#20 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So what?

Was the book banned?

#23 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:38 PM | Reply

19 it's not age appropriate.

#22 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2023-05-19 09:38 PM | REPLY

Says who??

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-05-19 09:39 PM | Reply

19 it's not age appropriate.

#22 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Raped 10 year olds being forced to carry rape babies to term isn't age appropriate

Educational material on non-heteronormative sex is just fine.

#25 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Says who??

#24 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR A

Roger Chillingworth, er I mean Jeffj

#26 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:41 PM | Reply

" My catholic school teachers in 7th grade taught me about heterosexual sex including pictures of penises, vaginas and vivid descriptions of how these organs were supposed to work"

Yes. It was called sex ed class. It was typically a biology class program. Students were made aware in advance and had to bring home permission slips to be signed.

#27 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Educational material on non-heteronormative sex is just fine."

You can't go near play ground can you?

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2023-05-19 09:43 PM | Reply

" Was the book banned?

#23 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2023-05-19 09:38 PM | FLAG: "

My guess is it was prohibited in that school district.

Try this little experiment - go to a bus stop for middle school, stand nearby and read the book out loud. Try this every day for a week and see how it goes for you.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:44 PM | Reply

I'm guessing this was Truthhurts sex class:

m.youtube.com

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:49 PM | Reply

www.wglt.org

This article puts the local debate more in perspective.

FTA: "Tidmarsh was far from alone in pointing out how LGBTQ+ materials are treated differently from other texts. Clinical social worker and parent of three Heyworth students Krista Reichart-Lunny approached the podium bearing a stack of children's books, each featuring material similarly explicit to "This Book Is Gay," and most intended for far younger ages. These books covered only heterosexual sex."

As I suspected the issue is the gay part of the sex education.

#31 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm guessing this was Truthhurts sex class:
m.youtube.com

#30 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I'm guessing you learned about gay sex as the priest shoved his dick up your preteen ass.

#32 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:50 PM | Reply

Two of Bonner's former students spoke highly of their experiences with Bonner. Recent Heyworth High School graduate Colin Norsworthy reinforced points in favor of "This Book Is Gay" and recalled his experiences being bullied for his sexuality in school. Current sophomore Allison Huebner emphasized Bonner's classroom as a warm refuge from a sometimes unwelcoming atmosphere.

"I am a ----- student here, and I know many other peers that are afraid to go to their parents and tell them who they truly are and identify with," Huebner said. "I know that some parents may think that their kids are completely comfortable and happy, but I'm telling you, some of them have very difficult lives, and it's very difficult to tell other parents that."

So, big picture here, a great teacher who was an ally to marginalized, bullied, at risk students was forced out. Because she had the temerity to provide access to a gay friendly sex education book that is tamer than some of the heterosexual education books that are part of the school curriculum.

Republicans are scum

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Try this little experiment - go to a bus stop for middle school, stand nearby and read the book out loud. Try this every day for a week and see how it goes for you.

POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2023-05-19 09:44 PM | REPLY

How many middle schoolers have found their parents dirty books?? I bet 85% of them have.

#34 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-05-19 09:53 PM | Reply

" the temerity to provide access to a gay friendly sex education book that is tamer than some of the heterosexual education books that are part of the school curriculum."

Wascshe teaching a sex ed program?

#35 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:54 PM | Reply

dirty books????

how old are you?

#36 | Posted by Tor at 2023-05-19 09:54 PM | Reply

FT article I posted:

"Also common was the insistence that non-straight sexual activity remain "behind closed doors.""

ANNNNDDD RIGHT there it is.

#37 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:55 PM | Reply


@#22 ... it's not age appropriate. ...

While that my be a reason for a teacher not to cite it, it is not a reason to be removed from a library.

#38 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:56 PM | Reply

51years old.

#39 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-05-19 09:56 PM | Reply

Wascshe teaching a sex ed program?

#35 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

That was not a concern if you read the article I posted

#40 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:56 PM | Reply

#32. Did you even watch the video? If you possess a sense of humor it will make you laugh.

#41 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:56 PM | Reply

"While that my be a reason for a teacher not to cite it, it is not a reason to be removed from a library."

There are of course books that you don't want in a school library.

#42 | Posted by Tor at 2023-05-19 09:57 PM | Reply

Sex ed is taught in 6th grade in that school, which seems to include more graphic stuff than what is in This Book is Gay.

The sole problem is the book in question covers non-heteronormative sex

#43 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:58 PM | Reply

As an enlightened man I do think homosexuality should be taught as part of a sex ed program.

#44 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 09:58 PM | Reply

@#29 ... Try this little experiment ...

Your current is still avoiding my question...

Why should the book be banned from the library?

#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 09:58 PM | Reply

51?

Yeah that makes sense.

Allow me to sing you an explanation of why dirty books are a thing of the past.

www.youtube.com

#46 | Posted by Tor at 2023-05-19 09:59 PM | Reply

#32. Did you even watch the video? If you possess a sense of humor it will make you laugh.

#41 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I watched it in the movie theater when it came out in The Meaning of Life

#47 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 09:59 PM | Reply

As an enlightened man I do think homosexuality should be taught as part of a sex ed program.

#44 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You're as enlightened as the mariana trench

#48 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 10:00 PM | Reply

When you were taught about sex ed in middle school were you taught about golden showers? Eating feces? Taking a drug to create euphoria and loosen ---- muscles? How to run classified ads in the newspaper to solicit for a sex partner?

#49 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 10:01 PM | Reply

#45. Scroll up. I answered.

#50 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 10:03 PM | Reply

When you were taught about sex ed in middle school were you taught about golden showers? Eating feces? Taking a drug to create euphoria and loosen ---- muscles? How to run classified ads in the newspaper to solicit for a sex partner?

#49 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Gay sex comes with different concerns. It is perfectly logical to explain how gay sex can be performed safely. I also think it very important to educate children on apps like grindr so that they can safely navigate the web that they will be exploring. Better to have it explained to them so they can be prepared as opposed to coming across it.

#51 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-19 10:05 PM | Reply

If talking about an app like Grindr was done to educate about the dangers of apps like that, okay. But one of the controversial books, if memory serves it's the book on this thread, it instructs HOW to use the app.

#52 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 10:07 PM | Reply

When you were taught about sex ed in middle school

#49 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I was in the 5th grade.

And it wasn't voluntary.

Like this was.

Any kid who daw this wanted to.

Now f*** off.

#53 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 10:09 PM | Reply

#51

yeah you can't come within sight of a school.

#54 | Posted by Tor at 2023-05-19 10:12 PM | Reply

@#49 ... When you were taught about sex ed in middle school were you taught about ...

Once again I ask... why should the book be removed from the library?

That seems to be the concern of the cited article, yet no one seems to want to talk about that.

Why?

Anyone?

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 10:15 PM | Reply

" Once again I ask... why should the book be removed from the library?"

Again, it's not age appropriate as determined by the school district.

#56 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 10:19 PM | Reply

@#56 ... Again, it's not age appropriate as determined by the school district. ...

Please define "age appropriate" as it relates to all those who visit the library?

Is your current alias saying that "age appropriate" should apply to all the material of any given library?


#57 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 10:25 PM | Reply

Once again I ask... why should the book be removed from the library?

#55 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

You're asking the wrong question.

It was never in the library.

#58 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 10:25 PM | Reply

So, gents,where WOULD you draw the line for age appropriateness for 12 year olds. Apparently you think it is cool to teach these kids how to use Grinder, amylmnitrate to relax the ----, golden showers and the joys of group sex and eating scat. All important rite of passage stuff, I'm sure. Any parent not wishing to have their 12 year old exposed to this content is clearly homophobic.

Next week, guest speakers from. ------ ... .but that isn't grooming.

#59 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-19 10:57 PM | Reply

------ ...

#59 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

What is that?

#60 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:06 PM | Reply

@#58 ... You're asking the wrong question.

It was never in the library. ...

Point taken.

But the gist of my comment remains....

... a local middle school teacher allowed her students to read a book ...

That is, should a book be banned completely, or should such a ban be applied to age appropriate access?

In my prior life as a child, I remember the library I frequented had "children" and not children sections. What happened to that?

My main concern is that "age-appropriate" access seems to be used to ban a book from any access at all.

That is what I object to.

Strenuously.

#61 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 11:11 PM | Reply

In my prior life as a child, I remember the library I frequented had "children" and not children sections. What happened to that?

#61 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Nothing.

It still exists.

Unlike the organization that the organization that the drooling ------ who posted #59 referenced.

#62 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:15 PM | Reply

Just imagine being #59.

You've already ---- your pants 4 times, the. Someone puts a football helmet on you and slides a couple of tube socks over your hands that they secure with duct tape to keep you front smearing ---- into the open scrapes that you carved into your own face.

I'm not asking you to respect them. Kick them a little pity though.

#63 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:18 PM | Reply

@#59 ... So, gents,where WOULD you draw the line for age appropriateness for 12 year olds ...

Once again, I draw the distinction between what is presented to students and what is available in libraries.

Your comment sidesteps that.

#64 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 11:18 PM | Reply

@#60 ... What is that?...

It seems to be some monster under the bed of Republicans.

My search engine found this...

North American Man/Boy Love Association
en.wikipedia.org

How it applies to this current thread, I've not a clue. imo, it seems to be little more than a desperate attempt of the alias to deflect.

#65 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-19 11:22 PM | Reply

Your comment sidesteps that.

#64 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Just imagine the flirting gat goes one between #59 and Bellend in whatever discord they're on.

He's probably drooling all over both of us while he imaginary kicks both of our asses at the same time right now to defend his fair and drooling maiden.

#66 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:24 PM | Reply

"allowed her students to read a book that tackled the topics of gender and sexuality."

Children shouldn't learn it's okay to be gay!
--Republicans

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-19 11:33 PM | Reply

"Poppers: Slang term for amyl nitrate - an aroma that gives a feeling of light-headedness."

That's not really an explanation of why they are used, though.

This is, however, a seemingly appropriate way of describing the existence of poppers to kids.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-19 11:35 PM | Reply

"what is available in libraries.

Your comment sidesteps that.

#64 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-05-19 11:18 PM"

Clarification needed: Are you talking about school libraries or public libraries? Please don't conflate the two - they are not the same.

#69 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-19 11:51 PM | Reply

Clarification needed: Are you talking about school libraries or public libraries? Please don't conflate the two - they are not the same.

#69 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Liar.

They're exactly the same to drooling ------- like you.

www.msnbc.com

FTA:

But Republicans voting to completely withdraw state support from public libraries? Threatening to imprison librarians for doing what librarians do? Last year's law and this year's budget proposal represent an escalation in the party's authoritarian commitment to punish dissent and keep the public ignorant.

#70 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:56 PM | Reply

Don't worry, though.

Miranda still can't wait to get in your pants.

She's a lunatic who just ---- in hers..

#71 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-19 11:57 PM | Reply

@#69 ... Please don't conflate the two - they are not the same. ...

Why does your current alias think they should not be the same?

#72 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 12:00 AM | Reply

Why does your current alias think they should not be the same?
#72 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT

You're probably going to have to wait until Monday for an answer.

That's when the new talking points from the industrial outrage complex hit Twitter, YouTube, etc.

#73 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-20 12:04 AM | Reply

------ ...
#59 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

What is that?
#60 | POSTED BY TRES_FLECHAS

It's the North American Marlon Brando Lookalike Association.

#74 | Posted by ClownShack at 2023-05-20 12:10 AM | Reply

This is what happens when you're a US senator you defy the industrial outrage complex.

youtu.be

Just imagine what would happen if some little limo dick like bellend did it...

#75 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-20 12:12 AM | Reply

Limp*

#76 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-20 12:13 AM | Reply

II defer to Tres Flechas who is obviously still in middle school.

#77 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 12:20 AM | Reply

@#73 ... You're probably going to have to wait until Monday for an answer. ...

OK, I'm torn here.

Your comment seems to present a binary situation...

Do I respond to it (oops, too late), or do I just ignore it as I do with so many other comments here.

Well, it seems my decision is made...

So here goes...

Yeah, there does seem to be some manner of, let's say, organized, interaction of this most august message board by some of the aliases.

I've heard that this board has the attention of some aides in Wash DC. But that is all I'll say on that.

But to your point, yeah, there seem to be some aliases that use this most august message board for more than (as I do) just personal opinions).

In a way, isn't that A Good Thing?

#78 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 12:28 AM | Reply

@#77 ... II defer to Tres Flechas who is obviously still in middle school. ...

So.. ya seem to have nothing but an ad hominem attack?

Noted.

#79 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 12:37 AM | Reply

We see that parents all over the country are not parenting their kids; I point to the number of kids showing up at schools with murder machines to kill their classmates. Or the xtian kids who publically took so-called chastity oaths, but were having unprotected butt sex because that didn't count, and nobody in their uptight families or xtian schools ever taught them about safe sex because xtians are wilfully ignorant about what's going on under their noses.

Miranda, you don't think those 12 and 13-year-olds will find that information online from untrusted sources? Or they might be getting wrong information to their questions about this stuff from friends on Discord or from older siblings or older siblings of friends. For Christ's sake, 12 and 13-year-olds are having sex and getting pregnant; perhaps they should be getting the facts from a TRUSTED SOURCE.

#80 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2023-05-20 01:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#70 | POSTED BY TRES_FLECHAS"

The question was directed at Lamplighter, not you, jagoff.

#81 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 01:06 AM | Reply

"Why does your current alias think they should not be the same?

#72 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-05-20 12:00 AM"

Do you think an elementary school library should be carrying "This Book is Gay"? What about "50 Shades of Grey"?

It's ridiculous that we are even discussing this. Is the concept of "age appropriate" completely lost on you?

#82 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 01:08 AM | Reply

@#82 ... Do you think an elementary school library should be carrying "This Book is Gay"? What about "50 Shades of Grey"? ...

I think a school library should be filled with all manner of books, not just books that pass the minimum acceptability of the most narrow-minded of the community.

But as I mentioned earlier (#64), I also think it is not appropriate for a teacher to present to students some topics that may not be age appropriate.

... It's ridiculous that we are even discussing this. ...

What is ridiculous about it? Specifically....


#83 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 01:26 AM | Reply

What is ridiculous about it?

What's ridiculous about this is that the police were called.

#84 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-05-20 01:34 AM | Reply

"What's ridiculous about this is that the police were called.

#84 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2023-05-20 01:34 AM"

Agreed.

"I think a school library should be filled with all manner of books, not just books that pass the minimum acceptability of the most narrow-minded of the community.

#83 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2023-05-20 01:26 AM"

There is "minimum acceptability" and there is "age appropriate". YOU have been dodging the concept of age appropriate all night as it pertains to public school libraries. No parameters at all? Just a free-for-all?

#85 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 02:00 AM | Reply

@#85 ... There is "minimum acceptability" and there is "age appropriate". YOU have been dodging the concept of age appropriate all night as it pertains to public school libraries ..

Wow, an all-capitalized "you."

I am honored.

But to your point...

I have not been dodging that point. Indeed, I have addressed it head on (in #83). Why does your current alias seem to be ignoring that aspect of the comment?

But to your asserted "minimum acceptability" --- how is that decided.

As I also mentioned in #83... "books that pass the minimum acceptability of the most narrow-minded of the community."

So, aside from your current alias apparently being afraid of answering the simple questions I pose in #83...

What have ye?



#86 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 02:24 AM | Reply

I'd have a much easier time answering your questions if you'd just talk normal. Seriously.

And also, being less cryptic would foster clearer communication.

Yes, you did acknowledge the concept of "age appropriate" as it pertains to what is introduced in the classroom. Yet when it comes to a public school library you seemed to back away from that. I've asked for clarification and the best I've been able to interpret is you seem to think that public school libraries (elementary, middle and High school) should be treated the exact same as general public libraries as it pertains to curation.

#87 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 02:32 AM | Reply

@#87 ... I'd have a much easier time answering your questions if you'd just talk normal. Seriously. ..

Is your current alias' inability to understand English my problem.

Once again, I will state the same comment I noted back in #64...

@#64 I draw the distinction between what is presented to students and what is available in libraries.

What issue does your current alias have with that comment?


#88 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 02:46 AM | Reply

@#87 ... I've asked for clarification and the best I've been able to interpret is you seem to think that public school libraries (elementary, middle and High school) should be treated the exact same as general public libraries as it pertains to curation. ...

Why should public school libraries not e treated the same as public libraries?

The issue of this thread seems to be what a teacher proffers, not the contents of a school library.

From the article cited in the summary...

...Illinois parents reportedly called the police after a local middle school teacher allowed her students to read a book that tackled the topics of gender and sexuality....

So why does your current alias seem to want to hijack this thread into library censorship?




#89 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-05-20 02:54 AM | Reply

"Why should public school libraries not e treated the same as public libraries?"

Because they are not the same. You seem to suggest that when it comes to public school libraries age appropriate be thrown out the window. Why? Set aside the sexual stuff. Do you think a 6 year old can pick up a copy of "Wealth of Nations" and even remotely understand any of its content? How about "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"? "Das Capital"?

#90 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 03:04 AM | Reply

The only exception is the "1619 Project" Even a 6 year old can spot it for the garbage that it is.

#91 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-20 03:18 AM | Reply

Because they are not the same. You seem to suggest that when it comes to public school libraries age appropriate be thrown out the window. Why? Set aside the sexual stuff. Do you think a 6 year old can pick up a copy of "Wealth of Nations" and even remotely understand any of its content? How about "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"? "Das Capital"?

POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2023-05-20 03:04 AM | REPLY

Nonsense. Public school libraries and public libraries are one and the same. They're public libraries that are open to the public at large.

#92 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-05-20 06:03 AM | Reply

It's ridiculous that we are even discussing this. Is the concept of "age appropriate" completely lost on you?

#82 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

This school teaches sex ed to 6th graders using more graphic books.

Iow jeff is an idiot.

#93 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 12:35 PM | Reply

There is "minimum acceptability" and there is "age appropriate". YOU have been dodging the concept of age appropriate all night as it pertains to public school libraries. No parameters at all? Just a free-for-all?

#85 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

The school deemed heteronormative books that are more graphic than This Book is Gay be used to teach younger kids than 8th grade.

The only difference is This Book is Gay is geared to LGBTQ students (around 25% of the population) and uptight -------- and liars like jeff get their manga print panties in an uproar

#94 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Miranda, you don't think
#80 | POSTED BY _GUNSLINGER_

Well said.

I've never seen her process new information or assimilate other points of view.

Like the completely harmless and very beneficial to society point of view to tell children it's okay to be gay.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-20 12:40 PM | Reply

"The only difference is This Book is Gay is geared to LGBTQ students"

That's what they really don't want:
Open acceptance of gay kids.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-20 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I know that at 13, I read my brother's Playboy magazines. I looked at the cartoons and didn't read the articles. That was in 1969.

#97 | Posted by Ronnie68 at 2023-05-20 06:21 PM | Reply

69 Teehee

#98 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 06:27 PM | Reply

www.amazon.com

According to Amazon grade level 8-12 ages 14-17. So maybe borderline but not way out there.

As far as the content goes I find it fascinating that some people focus on the really questionable parts like that is the whole book while others simply ignore the questionable parts. I haven't read it and feel no overwhelming need to do so, my kids are all adults now, so take my opinion with a fairly large grain of salt. Just because a book could be really good in most areas doesn't mean it isn't problematic in others.

That said calling the cops on a teacher for a book seems excessive to me. Perhaps a conversation with the teacher about why they thought it was an appropriate recommendation, maybe a conversation with the school admins or the board but the cops? Come on dude/dudette can we try and be rational adults?

#99 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2023-05-20 06:50 PM | Reply

Sounds like there were conversations but the tone deaf teacher ignored the concerned parents earlier in the year. Considering the content of that book, she may have committed a criminal act by sharing it with the children. Hence the police involvement.

Certainly kids can find that and worse on the internet, that doesn't mean English teachers should be teaching preteens how to get on Grinder, eat poop, take a------------- or use poppers. Whether the activities the book is advocating are hetero or ---- is irrelevant to this argument. It certainly wouldn't be any better if she was teaching 12 year old girls how to give a BJ. or try -------.

If you want to teach your kids about those subjects in 8th grade, you are free to do so. School is compulsory, parents can't just keep them home to avoid teachers bringing in this content int English class. They shouldn't have to.

Sure, kids can find worse content on the Internet. They can also learn how to build a bomb, join a cult, manufacture methamphetamine or worship,Jesus, worship Hitler. That doesn't mean this subject matter belongs in our schools.

Ironic that the same people insisting our kids deserve to be exposed to this content in middle school also believe a teacher should be instantly fired for uttering the n word twice during a high school classroom discussion about race.

#100 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 08:58 PM | Reply

#100

I don't say a teacher using the n word should be instantly fired but suspended with pay pending an investigation I'm ok with. Education can be uncomfortable and sometimes that can be a good thing. Using the n word in history or literature is one thing, I fail to see the educational validity in using it in geometry but am willing to wait on an investigation before forming an solid opinion. I would be ok if the teacher in this case was likewise suspend with pay pending an investigation. I mentioned not only conversations with the teacher but with admin and the board as well. If that had happened and they were concerned I'm sure they would have done the suspend thing so either it didn't happen or they weren't concerned. There is a chain of command for a reason and a parent going to the cops is just a way to circumvent the chain of command. That is my primary beef with calling the cops had the parent gone to the admin and the admin investigated then turned over the results to the police that would be a completely different matter.

#101 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2023-05-20 09:09 PM | Reply

My message followed yours but wasn't directed at you. Do you seek educational value in teaching 12 year olds about golden showers, eating poop, using poppers and logging onto Grindr?

I agree with you about investigating first before firing teachers. I also get the chain of command concern but police and administrators aren't in the same chain of command. We also don't know what other issues may heave led up to this moment between these parents teachers and administrators.

#102 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 09:57 PM | Reply

I have not read the book, nor have you presumably. I assume you are working off of some notes someone posted somewhere.
So, i cannot say what the context is for these supposed inclusions.

I will say "poppers" strikes me as appropriate since they are discussing gay sex (i.e. ---- sex). Being ---- sex can be painful and/or dangerous it seems to be this is a safety measure.

As for grindr-teaching kids about the web is absolutely educational.

Again, it comes down to context.

#103 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 10:07 PM | Reply

if you call the police about a non criminal school matter, they won't take a report, they will tell you to call the school. Apparently they found enough reason to consider it a possible violation of criminal law (most likely -------------------- statute) or they wouldn't have been able to fill out a report.

If you call the Principal about a matter that is a violation of criminal law, not onky will they tell you to report it to law enforcement, they are RaeQUIRED by law to report it to law enforcement themselves. They can't just investigate it themselves and pass it up the chain of command to police.

To be ckear, I don't know if the content of the book rises to the level of a criminal violation. There may be other worse content than what I cited, or there may have been other comments or actions on the part of the teacher. The article reports ONLY the teachers side of the story. There was no comment from police ( other than confirming a report was written) and the parents weren't interviewed.

#104 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 10:07 PM | Reply

So, I did a little research and the "controversial" stuff is presented pretty matter of factly and certainly seems to be geared towards educating kids on sex, i.e. kids will be hearing the term "-------------" and wonder what it means. While admittedly the book would require a mature adult for the child to discuss with it definitely is well within the realm of appropriate-for those without major sexual hangups

#105 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 10:17 PM | Reply

The book was not considered obscene or pornographic and absolutely would not meet that definition it is clearly an educational book. Immediately after the teacher shared the book, there was a school board meeting to discuss (apparently quite civil) with both sides of the issue giving testimony. So, no the book was not a problem until the one parent called the police.

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 10:19 PM | Reply

Ah so they didnt go straight to police, there was a meeting ... The book was not a problem for some people but apparently it was for others. I haven't read it, but those particular points of content are enough for me to say I wouldnt want another adult sharing that particular book with my middle school kids.children without my knowledge or consent. Speaking of consent, did they even have the kids consent to discuss explicit sexual content? Trigger warnings perhaps?

If a youth plaster came into your child's tent on a camping trip and read this book to them, would you be okay with that? What if Officer Friendly stopped your 8th grader (girl or boy) and talked to them about golden showers and how to--------- or relax their ----? Something tells me you would have a problem with that. You might even call it grooming, but I'd bet you'd call the news media and the FBI.

I think most of our teachers have the best of intentions, and very few are "groomers". I don't think the teacher is one either, I think she either didn't read the book or has very poor judgement.

#107 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 10:44 PM | Reply

Ah so they didnt go straight to police, there was a meeting ... The book was not a problem for some people but apparently it was for others. I haven't read it, but those particular points of content are enough for me to say I wouldnt want another adult sharing that particular book with my middle school kids.children without my knowledge or consent. Speaking of consent, did they even have the kids consent to discuss explicit sexual content? Trigger warnings perhaps?

If a youth plaster came into your child's tent on a camping trip and read this book to them, would you be okay with that? What if Officer Friendly stopped your 8th grader (girl or boy) and talked to them about golden showers and how to--------- or relax their ----? Something tells me you would have a problem with that. You might even call it grooming, but I'd bet you'd call the news media and the FBI.

I think most of our teachers have the best of intentions, and very few are "groomers". I don't think the teacher is one either, I think she either didn't read the book or has very poor judgement.

#108 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 10:44 PM | Reply

The author of the book:

"Dawson, whose book was ranked ninth among the most banned books in the U.S. according to Vanderbilt University, makes clear that the book is "not for children."

"We're all very clear This Book is Gay' is not for children," Dawson said.

#109 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 11:02 PM | Reply

One of the "concerned parents" was Karen Maharas. You just can't make this stuff up.

#110 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-05-20 11:14 PM | Reply

The plot thickens. Apparently this teacher has been under investigation since March, and there was a very heated school board meeting and a lot of upset parents and students.

"About 10-12 students in her classroom refused to go to class because they are "uncomfortable" and asked their parents to pull them out of this teacher's classroom"

www.cities929.com

#111 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 11:21 PM | Reply

#109 Did you get the names of the other 89 concerned parents?

#112 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-20 11:22 PM | Reply

www.wglt.org

The meeting drew about 85 attendees, 11 of whom took to the podium to speak for or against Bonner. Some parents insisted that the book's "disturbing" content was inappropriate for children, and such issues are to be taught at home. Also common was the insistence that non-straight sexual activity remain "behind closed doors."

Many parents, such as Karen Maharas, shared some concerns but were also open to the book's potential value.

"I can understand that topics of sexual education, gender identity, et cetera, can be viewed as topics parents should cover within home," she said, "but not all parents are willing or able to have such conversations with their children. And if parents can't or won't talk with their children, then who will?"

A handful of attendees were students or instructors at Illinois State University, where Bonner is also an instructor in teaching and learning. One, doctoral student Bryanna Tidmarsh, spoke in Bonner's defense, arguing LGBTQ+ students benefit from literature that reflects their experiences, and that teaching heterosexual sex education in the sixth grade while neglecting other identities constitutes "institutionalized homophobia."

Tidmarsh was far from alone in pointing out how LGBTQ+ materials are treated differently from other texts. Clinical social worker and parent of three Heyworth students Krista Reichart-Lunny approached the podium bearing a stack of children's books, each featuring material similarly explicit to "This Book Is Gay," and most intended for far younger ages. These books covered only heterosexual sex.

"I just wanted to demonstrate that the content (critics of the book) were talking about, that the 'explicit' nature of it was not because of what it showed, the actual pictures ... it was focusing on the fact that the book was referencing gay orientation," Reichart-Lunny said after the meeting.

Two of Bonner's former students spoke highly of their experiences with Bonner. Recent Heyworth High School graduate Colin Norsworthy reinforced points in favor of "This Book Is Gay" and recalled his experiences being bullied for his sexuality in school. Current sophomore Allison Huebner emphasized Bonner's classroom as a warm refuge from a sometimes unwelcoming atmosphere.

#113 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 11:33 PM | Reply

"I am a ----- student here, and I know many other peers that are afraid to go to their parents and tell them who they truly are and identify with," Huebner said. "I know that some parents may think that their kids are completely comfortable and happy, but I'm telling you, some of them have very difficult lives, and it's very difficult to tell other parents that."

While the majority of the public discussion was civil, some speakers on both sides of the issue faced mockery or insults from other attendees in the crowd, on one occasion escalating to a brief argument.

Being that is from NPR I am more inclined to believe this is a more accurate description of the school board meeting. The Porn Hub documentary, if true, would seemingly be problematic.

#114 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 11:36 PM | Reply

FWIW I cannot find any article on the porn hub documentary other than the one conservative website. no mainstream media seems to have that story

#115 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-20 11:38 PM | Reply

Good summary, Truth. My response:

"Many parents, such as Karen Maharas, shared some concerns but were also open to the book's potential value."I can understand that topics of sexual education, gender identity, et cetera, can be viewed as topics parents should cover within home," she said, "but not all parents are willing or able to have such conversations with their children. And if parents can't or won't talk with their children, then who will?"

Possibly nobody will, but that is not "Karen's" problem. Parents have the right to raise their kids as they see fit. It is not the teacher's right or responsibility to take over the parenting role "just in case" they do a crappy job. The automatic assumption that teachers will do a better job (of giving "the talk", or providing support for a kid coming out) is troubling. Ms. Bonner said, "The difference is that I have that love and care for all students, not just a singular student,". I guess that makes her better at it?

My neighbors (gay couple) got pretty pissed when a well meaning teacher told classmates that her daughter has "two mommies". That is not how they identify, and it drew unwanted attention to her child. They feel strongly that discussions about their family roles, gender identity and sexuality are personal matters and they choose when, where and how those conversations occur. The teacher said, what am I supposed to say when the other kids ask questions?" and my neighbor said, "Tell them is is none of their business, or better yet, tell them to ask my daughter, let HER share if she wants to, or let HER tell them it is none of their DAMN business if she doesn't.

"The Porn Hub documentary, if true, would seemingly be problematic."
The trailer appears to be informative and not explicit, but it is rated for mature audiences, so again not for middle school. I think they were required to watch it as part of an assignment.

#116 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-21 02:12 AM | Reply

"kids will be hearing the term "-------------" and wonder what it means."

It's a reference to Zeus in Greek mythology. Kids don't need to be taught any other version of it in an educational setting. They can look it up on Urban Dictionary if they want to know the slang meaning.

#117 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:09 AM | Reply

"It's a reference to Zeus in Greek mythology."

Nobody hears------------- and thinks of mythology.
What country are you from?

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:18 AM | Reply

"there was a very heated school board meeting and a lot of upset parents and students."

That's every school board meeting where Republican parents show up.

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:19 AM | Reply

"If a youth plaster came into your child's tent on a camping trip and read this book to them, would you be okay with that?"

I don't see how the book is the issue here.
Why is the youth pastor entering any child's tent, period?

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:20 AM | Reply

"I will say "poppers" strikes me as appropriate since they are discussing gay sex (i.e. ---- sex). Being ---- sex can be painful and/or dangerous it seems to be this is a safety measure."

I can hear Dr. Joycelyn Elders' voice when reading this. "I think gay kids should be taught how to ---------- in school using poppers and ------."

For those who weren't around or don't remember, she was the Surgeon General who was fired by Bill Clinton for making a comment like that.

#121 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:20 AM | Reply

"I think gay kids should be taught how to ---------- in school using poppers and ------."
#121 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

If the past six years have taught us anything, it's this:
Conservatives really let their imaginations run wild when it comes to sexualizing children.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:22 AM | Reply

"Nobody hears------------- and thinks of mythology."

Nobody in your circle, perhaps. That's one of the problems with your educational system.

"What country are you from?"

I'm from a U.S. state, but not the golden one.

#123 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:39 AM | Reply

"when it comes to sexualizing children."

So now you're describing sex education as sexualizing children. Interesting.

#124 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:42 AM | Reply

"So now you're describing sex education as sexualizing children."

I'm describing your fantasy about telling gay kids to use ------ as sexualizing children.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:44 AM | Reply

It's also curious how you singled out the gay kids for -----.
Why is your fantasy only about the gays? Anyone can use a -----.

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:45 AM | Reply

#125- It's not my fantasy. It's just an updated version of what Dr. Elders would have said if she were surgeon general today. And it's in line with what I was responding to in TruthHurts' comment.

If you want to talk about disturbing fantasies, go address #32 and #63. But of course you won't, because you're a hypocritical little troll.

#127 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:52 AM | Reply

"It's not my fantasy. It's just an updated version of what Dr. Elders would have said"

In other words, it's your fantasy.

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:53 AM | Reply

"It's also curious how you singled out the gay kids for -----."

It's not more curious than how the original comment I responded to singled out gay kids for using poppers. That was the context, kiddo.

#129 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 10:54 AM | Reply

"It's not more curious than how the original comment I responded to singled out gay kids for using poppers."

Poppers are commonly used in the gay community. Less so elsewhere. You didn't know?

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 10:57 AM | Reply

"My neighbors (gay couple) got pretty pissed when a well meaning teacher told classmates that her daughter has "two mommies". That is not how they identify, and it drew unwanted attention to her child."

Yeah that teacher is a fool.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 11:07 AM | Reply

#130- yes, and that carried over into my extrapolation of Dr. Elders' comments. Context, dummy.

#132 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 11:24 AM | Reply

"yes, and that carried over into my extrapolation of Dr. Elders' comments"

Right, so you shared a fantasy about gay children ------------ anally with ------.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 11:27 AM | Reply

Jocelyn Elders Presents:-------- Instructions For Gay Bottoms.
By SSentinel

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 11:39 AM | Reply

#134- so... would you be for or against that book being used in grade schools?

#135 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 11:55 AM | Reply

" Nonsense. Public school libraries and public libraries are one and the same. They're public libraries that are open to the public at large.

#92 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2023-05-20 06:03 AM | FLAG: "

Public schools have security procedures. They are not open to just any adult who wants to walk in. You are wrong.

#136 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-21 12:07 PM | Reply

Truthhurts

Your insistence that children be exposed to as much of this as possible- at school, outside of a specific sex ed program and without parental consent is why the word "groomer" gets thrown around. Let kids be kids for eff sake.

#137 | Posted by BellRinger at 2023-05-21 12:15 PM | Reply

Your insistence that children be exposed to as much of this as possible- at school, outside of a specific sex ed program and without parental consent is why the word "groomer" gets thrown around. Let kids be kids for eff sake.

POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2023-05-21 12:15 PM | REPLY

---- you. I wouldn't doubt that 85% of kids have read a dirty book. Kids aren't blind to sexuality outside school health ciriculium. You have no argument and you know it.

#138 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2023-05-21 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Let kids be kids for eff sake.

#137 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Right! But totally ignorant of reality.

All this maga whinings about sexually oriented books in the school library and then they hand these same kids a smart phone with internet access. Have you seen what is on the internets?? By your own standards I could call any parent who allows a minor access to the internet a "groomer".


If you attempt to ban books but still allow them internet access you are just pissing into the wind. But then again I heard you Trumpers ARE into that sort of thing.

#139 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-05-21 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I wouldn't doubt that 85% of kids have read a dirty book. Kids aren't blind to sexuality outside school health ciriculium.
You have no argument and you know it."

So because most kids can access pornography outside of school, there's no problem with pornography inside of school? That's what you're saying here.

#140 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 12:43 PM | Reply

"there's no problem with pornography inside of school?"

Apparently not. It's a well known fact that kids take their smart phones INSIDE the schools.

#141 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-05-21 12:47 PM | Reply

"Have you seen what is on the internets??"

You are aware that schools that allow access to the internet for students usually have blocks on that type of material, right?

#142 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 12:49 PM | Reply

Your insistence that children be exposed to as much of this as possible- at school, outside of a specific sex ed program and without parental consent is why the word "groomer" gets thrown around. Let kids be kids for eff sake.

#137 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

The same school apparently uses more explicit books for heteronormative sex education 2 years earlier. You don't consider that "grooming". Why is permitting access to interested, older, kids access to educational material on LGBTQ sexual and gender issues now grooming?

Clearly, the LGBTQ students find this book and the teacher as valuable.

#143 | Posted by truthhurts at 2023-05-21 01:02 PM | Reply

You are aware that schools that allow access to the internet for students usually have blocks on that type of material, right?

#142 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2023-05-21 12:49 PM | FLAG:

Are you aware they cannot block the internet access of the minors using smart phones? And that those smart phones are INSIDE the schools too?

#144 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-05-21 01:08 PM | Reply

#143 There are varying levels and types of "explicit". The curriculum when my kids were in school was "health" education, not "sex" education. It covered the biological aspects of reproduction. The curriculum included birth control (irrelevant to gay sex), and STD prevention (basically the same regardless of sexual orientation). There was no discussion of the sex act itself, how to do it or how not to do it, or what feels good. Figuring that part out is half the fun. Can't we let kids discover that for themselves? Preferably when they are older than 12?

I have interviewed dozens of kids who were molested by adults. I'm not one to throw the term "grooming" around loosely, I have seen it enough to understand. It always starts with adults telling/showing kids how good it feels and normalizing the idea of children having sex. It is very confusing for a kid to be told, then shown how pleasurable it is by an adult, but understand why it is wrong for the adult (who they often love) to do it with them.

#145 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-21 01:48 PM | Reply

"Figuring that part out is half the fun."

The boy half, or the girl half?

Your support for keeping children uneducated is strange to me.

Is figuring out what unplanned pregnancy is like half of the fun too?

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 02:06 PM | Reply

"Can't we let kids discover that for themselves? Preferably when they are older than 12?"

Sure. Just turn off the internet. And or remove all access until they are of the proper age. Whatever that is.

Unfortunately if you allow them internet access the "cat" is out of the bag and you can't put it back. Would you rather they learn these things alone online or with the help of a parent guardian or professional teacher?

Also is it ok with you that kids 12 and under are indoctrinated into the preferred religion of these adults? Isn't that also "grooming"?

Because that sounds a bit hypocritical to me to actively promote one and then deny the other. And as it turns out sex is such a difficult subject to deal with by the religulous among us that they would prefer to deny it exists rather than deal with it responsibly. Looks to me that we are just making the problem worse.

#147 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-05-21 02:10 PM | Reply

Let kids be kids for eff sake.
#137 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

And now you know where babies come from!

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 02:13 PM | Reply

"Are you aware they cannot block the internet access of the minors using smart phones? And that those smart phones are INSIDE the schools too?"

Of course they can. It's called prohibiting the use of cell phones in school and taking them away if the child breaks the policy (other than an emergency).

#149 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 02:25 PM | Reply

"It's called prohibiting the use of cell phones in school"

That ended after 9/11.

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 02:30 PM | Reply

"Can't we let kids discover that for themselves? Preferably when they are older than 12?"

How old were you when you discovered you were straight?

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 02:34 PM | Reply

Let kids be kids for eff sake.
#137 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So if a "kid" has feelings that are different from his friends and family he should just hang him or herself or set him or herself on fire because reasons.

Ok. We know where you are in life.

#152 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2023-05-21 02:39 PM | Reply

"set him or herself on fire because reasons."

If it's good for Buddhist monks...

#153 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 02:45 PM | Reply

"How old were you when you discovered you were straight?"

When I was in high school, I remember we had to strip down to our underwear, bend forward a little, and then the gym teacher would tell us whether we were straight. Personally, I thought it would have made more sense to have a medical professional do that, but I guess they were strapped for cash.

#154 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 03:03 PM | Reply

You think that defines straight? You can't be serious. That has to be a really bad attempt at humor.

#155 | Posted by YAV at 2023-05-21 04:19 PM | Reply

When I was in high school, I remember we ...

#154 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

When I was in high school it was a well known fact that if you had ever jerked off in your life you were gay and worthy of scorn.

Just imagine how much everyone there had to hate themselves to hold such views.

I mean,,,, I don't know about any of yous, but my dick got hard when the wind blew near it.

Imagine knowing, not thinking, that anyone who dared to try to change up that way of thinking and to make life a little better for some confused assed little kids needs to be fired or have the cops called on them.

#156 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-21 04:25 PM | Reply

"You can't be serious. That has to be a really bad attempt at humor."

It's 100% true. At my school they had screenings to see whether the students were straight or not. If they weren't, then they usually recommended surgery to make them straight, if possible. I'm not sure if they still do that, but it was very common back in the day.

#157 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 04:28 PM | Reply

He's talking about scoliosis...

#158 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2023-05-21 04:34 PM | Reply

He's talking about scoliosis screenings ... . I know this because it runs in my family and they used to do it in school way back when.

#159 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2023-05-21 04:35 PM | Reply

Of course they can. It's called prohibiting the use of cell phones in school and taking them away if the child breaks the policy (other than an emergency).
#149 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

You are fascinatingly naive and clearly have no idea what a 21st century middle school or high school campus is like.

#160 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-05-21 08:07 PM | Reply

It would be illegal in Illinois for a teacher to give a student access to a book that the student's parents do not want the student to read. The Illinois Parental Notice of Curriculum Content Act requires schools to notify parents about instructional materials that deal with human sexuality, AIDS/HIV education, or sexual education. Parents can then choose to have their child excluded from these materials. Additionally, the Supreme Court has upheld the rights of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children, including the right to control their child's education by selecting what they read.

www.isbe.net
www2.ed.gov
www.ilga.gov

#161 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2023-05-21 08:17 PM | Reply

So on one extreme some people want to ban books and let parents randomly sue teachers if they don't like the material, on the other extreme some people want children to be able to access pornography at school because it's already on the internet, or something.

This is another example of "when Conservatives go dumb, Liberals go dumber".

#162 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 08:47 PM | Reply

"some people want children to be able to access pornography at school"

Some people? Parents.

The parents demanded the kids be allowed to have their cellphones in school after 9/11.

All the school shootings is another reason parents demand it.

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 08:50 PM | Reply

"The parents demanded the kids be allowed to have their cellphones in school after 9/11."

Nice try at historical revisionism there, but that didn't happen. The claim doesn't even make since there were no schools involved in 9/11, and very few children. I've heard about parents wanting their kids to have cell phones with them in school because of the increase in school shootings, but that doesn't mean the schools can't regulate how they're used (or not used) on school grounds under normal daily circumstances.

#164 | Posted by sentinel at 2023-05-21 09:15 PM | Reply

"The claim doesn't even make since there were no schools involved in 9/11, and very few children."

LOL.

You know nothing about life in America.

After several shootings at schools and the acts of terrorism on the U.S, parents wanted to be able to communicate with their children at any time. Cell phones, parents argued, were necessary for safety, so the ban was relaxed in many schools.
www.timetoast.com

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-21 09:33 PM | Reply

I did not know that about scoliosis screenings.
Never had one and I know I am not young.
Never did anything like that at school.
Kind of fascinated by that whole idea.
We had TB tests. I remember those.

#166 | Posted by YAV at 2023-05-22 09:16 AM | Reply

I had scoliosis screening in Staten Island in the 70s. Don't remember TB tests.

#167 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2023-05-22 09:20 AM | Reply

Very interesting. Thanks Hagbard.

"In the 1960s and 1970s, when tuberculosis (TB) infection rates in the United States were high, universal screening for TB was required for all children" www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It appears to have been done based on the state's decision. Apparently we didn't get checked for it here. Here's the list by state:
scoliosisjournal.biomedcentral.com
(currently, don't have a historic chart)

#168 | Posted by YAV at 2023-05-22 10:25 AM | Reply

I had scoliosis screenings and the polio shot.

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-05-22 11:08 AM | Reply

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