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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, September 07, 2023

The US has announced it will supply depleted uranium tank shells to Ukraine as part of more than $1bn (800m) in military and humanitarian aid. Russia condemned the move to equip US Abrams tanks with the controversial armour-piercing munitions.

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The announcement came as Ukraine accused Russia of killing 17 people in a missile attack on a market street.

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Stupid stupid stupid.

Seems like little more than the desire to deplete obsolete US stocks so they can charge billions more to replenish.

Their tanks are obsolete and are being obliterated as it is. No need to introduce this environmental nightmare.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2023-09-07 12:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Seems like little more than the desire to deplete obsolete US stocks so they can charge billions more to replenish.

That's pretty much my impression as well. Or deplete them but not replace them, and buy conventional 155mm rounds instead.

Their tanks are obsolete and are being obliterated as it is.

I'm on Effetteloser's side on this one. Surely to God Russia has something modern and competent out there somewhere?

Or, the M1A1 needs them to be effective?

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-09-07 12:40 AM | Reply

Just more War Crimes by the US. Uranium ammo is toxic and Carcinogenic.

They don't care about Ukraine. If they did they wouldn't be supplying poisonous ordinance that will kill civilians.

Abrams tanks will burn like any others.

Tanks are largely obsolete in modern war,apparently.

Biden has no inner moral core when it comes to Ukraine.

He's just another cynical enabler of Death.

In that he's not Exceptional.

#3 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-09-07 12:58 AM | Reply

Uranium ammo is toxic and Carcinogenic.

Hard to argue the numbers on sectional density though.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-09-07 01:04 AM | Reply

Like that will matter to the Kids that will Die from blood cancers and lymphomas from the dust and contamination these shells will leave behind.

I don't see how poisoning Ukraine is helping them. Or anybody,really.

And the Worst part is, the Ukrainian's will probably still lose the Donbass and Crimea forever.

Is that why they don't care about poisoning their own country and citizens?

#5 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-09-07 01:34 AM | Reply

Can't we hit them with something that doesn't have a half life?

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2023-09-07 01:34 AM | Reply

Can't we hit them with something that doesn't have a half life?

Probably not in the short term. Russia can get out any time they want.

#7 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-09-07 01:48 AM | Reply

So war crimes are A-OK if the US is committing them?

Why should Russia behave morally if the West is so cavalier about serious crimes?

This war is heading nowhere healthy for any of us.

It's Following it's own Logic of Escalation.

We're all going to Sleepwalk into Armageddon.

Fearlessly and Stupidly,without even reflecting.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2023-09-07 01:58 AM | Reply

Stupid stupid stupid.

#1 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2023-09-07 12:15 AM | FLAG:

It's a stupid article for stupid people ignorant of the realities of this conflict that's perpetuating Russian propaganda to keep an extremely effective anti-tank round out of the theater.

Meanwhile, DU ammunition is already in extensive use by both sides in this conflict and this is not a meaningful event, just the continuation of slow capability creep we've been feeding in.

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-07 09:26 AM | Reply

and buy conventional 155mm rounds instead.

#2 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2023-09-07 12:40 AM | FLAG:

No. It's a 120mm smoothbore gun. All of the good AP ammo is depleted uranium. DU beats tungsten significantly in tests despite the similar density. If you send M1A1 Abrams to the battlefield, and they are going to battle against the T-72, T-80, T-90, and potentially the Armata T-14, you use the standard M1A1 ammo, which is the fin stabilized, depleted uranium armor penetrating sabot munition.

You can't ask for M1A1 to go to Ukraine then take away the ammo that makes them successful.

#10 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-07 09:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Just more War Crimes by the US. Uranium ammo is toxic and Carcinogenic."

So don't eat them. Or play with them.

Also using them is not a war crime and Russia already uses them. Why are you trying to disadvantage Ukraine in its war against Russian aggression?

"In 2016 the UN's Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) found no significant poisoning was caused by exposure to depleted uranium. However, the IAEA warns there could be a risk to individuals who handle fragments of depleted uranium rounds."

Why are you continually lying about the war in Ukraine?

#11 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-09-07 03:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"So war crimes are A-OK if the US is committing them?"

It's not a war crime to use DU rounds. Unless you are using them to shoot at hospitals or innocent civilians, etc.

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-09-07 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Why are you continually lying about the war in Ukraine? #11 | Posted by donnerboy
PoohtyFluffer just regurgitates whatever the Moscow Midget spurts down his throat. Pretty much his M.O. from the time he was crapping his pants about Poohty's Nuukies and lamenting about how Zelensky is a Jewish Nazi.

#13 | Posted by censored at 2023-09-07 03:49 PM | Reply

"Just more War Crimes by the US. Uranium ammo is toxic and Carcinogenic."
"So don't eat them. Or play with them."

Actually, short of never going near where DU was used, there's no way to avoid inhaling the dust that is created when the DU vaporizes on impact with the target.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:00 PM | Reply

That being said, hearing Russians attempt to invoke the Geneva Convention, which they've already violated repeatedly by invading Ukraine, is like hearing the Nazis complain about the use of shotguns by Allied forces while they marched into town, rounded up the civilians, forced them to dig a mass grave, and machine gunned them into said grave. But they didn't use a shotgun so that's all okay!

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Actually, short of never going near where DU was used, there's no way to avoid inhaling the dust that is created when the DU vaporizes on impact with the target.

#14 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Actually the IAEA "indicated that the existence of depleted uranium residues dispersed in the environment does not pose a radiological hazard to the population of the affected regions."

Ukraine will face significant cleanup costs and hazards after this war and I am sure using DU adds to that stack. But I don't think DU is as hazardous as other weapons being used against Ukraine.

Definitely not as hazardous as the blown up apartment buildings hospitals schools or markets that Russia is targeting.

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-09-07 04:08 PM | Reply

The health risk from depleted uranium is not because it's radioactive (that's what depleted means).
It's because ingesting any heavy metal is bad for you.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:09 PM | Reply

Actually the IAEA "indicated that the existence of depleted uranium residues dispersed in the environment does not pose a radiological hazard to the population of the affected regions."

Actually that's irrelevant to the health risk DU poses.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:10 PM | Reply

"Russian generals can just 'withdraw their tanks' if they're worried about Ukraine's new depleted-uranium ammo, US official says" www.businessinsider.com

LOL

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:15 PM | Reply

No. It's a 120mm smoothbore gun.

I know. I also know they need conventional 155mm rounds.

#20 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-09-07 04:22 PM | Reply

155 DPICM ammo. Cluster bomb artillery. It's working great and they need many, many more.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-07 04:28 PM | Reply

It's because ingesting any heavy metal is bad for you.

#17 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Duh? Like I said, don't eat them. Play with them at your own risk. Play with anything left behind after war at your own risk.

War creates multiple heath hazards. But inhaling DU dust after a battle is not that high on the list. The IAEA has tested areas after battles and did not find significant "residues". That would include dust.

But I would agree it is on the list of hazards. Just not any more dangerous than many other things left behind after war. And a lot less than some.

And the Russians are already using them so it's a mute point anyway.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-09-07 04:34 PM | Reply

Cluster bomb artillery.

The original story was they were getting that until the stocks of conventional 155 ammo were back up.

#23 | Posted by REDIAL at 2023-09-07 04:42 PM | Reply

Gulf War syndrome

Earlier considered potential causes
Depleted uranium

Major Gulf War engagements in which DU rounds were used
Depleted uranium (DU) was widely used in tank kinetic energy penetrator and autocannon rounds for the first time ever during the Gulf War[31] and has been suggested as a possible cause of Gulf War syndrome.[32] A 2008 review by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs found no association between DU exposure and multisymptom illness, concluding that "exposure to DU munitions is not likely a primary cause of Gulf War illness". However, there are suggestions that long-term exposure to high doses of DU may cause other health problems unrelated to GWI.[9]

More recent medical literature reviews disagree, stating for example that, "the number of Gulf War veterans who developed the Gulf War syndrome following exposure to high quantities of DU has risen to about one-third of the 800,000 U.S. forces deployed," with 25,000 of those having had a premature death.[33] Since 2011, US combat veterans may claim disability compensation for health problems related to exposure to depleted uranium.[34] The Veterans Administration decides these claims on a case-by-case basis.
en.wikipedia.org

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's certainly not the threat the Russians make it out to be, which is a "radioactive cloud," which is hilarious; moreso as they continue to use DU.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:53 PM | Reply

It's a stupid article for stupid people ignorant of the realities of this conflict that's perpetuating Russian propaganda to keep an extremely effective anti-tank round out of the theater

How many tank kills are coming from other tanks?

I was under the understanding that tank v tank battles weren't really a thing anymore and that they are largely I a try support roles a la mobile artillery.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2023-09-07 04:55 PM | Reply

Speaking of Depleted Uranium,

You guys seen the latest Russian airframe hardening tactic of covering their bombers with Depleted Tires?

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 05:00 PM | Reply

You guys seen the latest Russian airframe hardening tactic of covering their bombers with Depleted Tires? #27 | Posted by snoofy
It's a good tactic, but won't work if the Ukrainians use
pointy missiles.

#28 | Posted by censored at 2023-09-07 05:08 PM | Reply

#26 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2023-09-07 04:55 PM | FLAG:

Enough to make it worthwhile to send DU sabot ammo. The Ukr tanks are operating directly alongside the Infantry Fighting Vehicles as they storm Russian trenches. Sometimes tank fights break out and when you are staring down the barrel of a T-90 125mm cannon, you'd want to be in an Abrams looking back at it with 120mm depleted uranium rounds and nothing less.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-07 06:34 PM | Reply

__________
US to Arm Kyiv with Depleted Uranium Tank Shells

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-07 04:10 PM
Actually that's irrelevant to the health risk DU poses.

War is usually a significant "health risk."
---

NATO CONFIRMS TO UNITED NATIONS USE OF DEPLETED URANIUM DURING KOSOVO CONFLICT
"About 31,000 DU rounds were fired on 85 targets during Operation Allied Force in Kosovo 1998-1999."
---

British armed forces have used DU in their armor piercing shells for decades. "It is a standard component and has nothing to do with nuclear weapons or capabilities. Russia knows this, but is deliberately trying to disinform. There is no nuclear escalation," British foreign secretary James Cleverly said.
---

"Since 1982, Russia has used several types of DU tank rounds, including variants of the "Svinets" ("Lead") rounds," said William Alberque of the IISS think tank. Russian state media has previously publicized the upgrading of Russian main battle tanks, including the T-80BV, T-72 and T-90 tanks, to be capable of firing DU rounds. One Russian spokesman told TASS in 2018 that the use of DU munitions did not violate any international agreements.
---

On the other hand, Russia has been using Thermobaric TOS-1A MBRLs "Solntsepek" ("Blazing Sun"/"Sunburn") to deploy "vacuum projectiles" in Ukraine since February 28, 2022 - they create "incendiary and blast effects" and can destroy infrastructure and cause significant damage to internal organs and flash burns, resulting in painful death.

Ukraine, in turn, has used captured TOS-1As launchers against Russian troops.
---

"Studies on mice introduced DU directly in the bloodstream in vivo. Because the radiation cannot go to the marrow, it is biologically impossible for depleted uranium to cause leukemia."

"Irradiation of bone marrow by uranium's alpha particles would be almost impossible, unless entered into body through embedded fragments or contaminated wounds."

"Some Gulf War, Bosnia, Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF), and Operation New Dawn (OND) Veterans may have been exposed to DU when they were on, in, or near vehicles hit with friendly fire..."
---

It's a stupid article for stupid people ignorant of realities...

Yep. Most of anything in print or TV that deals with "radioactive" or anything else that's "dangerous" is - e.g., recent Fukushima water story.
__________

#30 | Posted by CutiePie at 2023-09-08 11:14 AM | Reply

"Why should Russia behave morally if the West is so cavalier about serious crimes?"

When has Russia behaved morally" When they were shooying civillians in the head? Or when they unlrashed the flood near Zaporichia? Or maybe when they attacked the maternity hospital in Crimea?

That said:
Using depleyed uranium rounds of ammunition for any reason is a war crime, Biden nrrds to reconsuder this idea, the US should not supply ammunition not supply a single round of that toxic ammunition to Ukraine.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2023-09-08 07:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Joe Biden - most destructive President ever. He should have been promoting peace and intelligent policy. Blunders, inaction, corruption and vacation are his record.

#32 | Posted by Robson at 2023-09-09 08:24 AM | Reply

The demented orange pedo has been reduced to gibbering about electric tanks.

www.newsweek.com

#33 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2023-09-09 08:36 AM | Reply

#32 | POSTED BY ROBSON

Robot or human, you are quite the idiot.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2023-09-09 09:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Joe Biden - most destructive President ever."

I could give you a list of actual destructive President which Donal Trump's name would be at the top. Your post is so ridiculous that a more intelligent person would be embarrassed but you aren't intelligent enough to even ubderstand why.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2023-09-09 09:23 AM | Reply

"Could we take a vote on this?"

Of course. The next vote will be Tuesday, November 5, 2024

See you there!

Also that poll (like all statistics) can be interpreted in so many ways.

After eighteen months of the Russian war on Ukraine and tens of billions of dollars in US support to Kyiv, nearly half of Americans want Congress to spend more money to help Ukraine defend its sovereignty and freedom.

That's pretty strong support for Americans (especially after 18 months of war). We usually lose interested in other countries problems in about a week. Heck we've already moved on from Maui and Florida's disasters and that's OUR country.

#39 | Posted by donnerboy at 2023-09-09 11:56 AM | Reply

Overall, 55% say the US Congress should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine vs. 45% who say Congress should authorize such funding.

#37 | POSTED BY LOOSHFARMER AT 2023-09-09 10:37 AM | REPLY

It shows how uninformed Americans are in the face of misleading poll questions that don't inform them of how and what form US aid has taken and where it sits relative to NATO partners.

It's also a cherry pick of the bad formed poll to begin with, since most Americans support spending more weapons to Ukraine, which is what American does in a volume that vastly dwarfs the financial support and generates backend savings for the US taxpayer by unloading obsolete inventories that are being depreciated at current inflation rates.

#40 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-09 01:25 PM | Reply

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