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China Is Done with the Established World Order
Xi's break with the establishment has been a long time coming. His predecessors integrated China into the U.S.-led global order by joining its foundational institutions, such as the World Bank and the World Trade Organization.
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lee_the_agent
Joined 2005/05/24Visited 2023/11/28
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Historically when China turns inward it falls apart.
#1 | Posted by Zed at 2023-09-09 12:33 PM | Reply
China owes the world same as a neighbor who fails to control their pitbull.
#2 | Posted by Tor at 2023-09-09 03:50 PM | Reply
#2 no it doesn't.
It's a superpower why can't they do superpower things?
Does this surprise anyone?
If so what's surprising?
#3 | Posted by oneironaut at 2023-09-09 05:27 PM | Reply
@#1 ... Historically when China turns inward it falls apart. ...
That's an interesting observation.
China has been driving away the West for the past decade or so.
But I'm not yet convinced it has turned inward. China seems to be reaching outward to establish a "new" world order, one that it centers.
iow, China seems to be trying to build a new alignment of countries.
Will it succeed?
Too soon to tell.
But it does not seem that China is being quiet bout it...
China Questions Why US Should Get First Shot to Chair G-20 Again www.bnnbloomberg.ca
... China has raised objections to the US hosting the Group of 20 nations in 2026 as already announced by President Joe Biden's administration, according to four people familiar with the discussions. G-20 members rotate their presidency of the group, including the annual summit of world leaders, and the US has said it will take it on after India, Brazil and South Africa complete their respective yearlong stints. China's objection -- backed by Russia, according to one of the people -- is mostly symbolic as it's unlikely the decision will be reversed. The people asked not to be named since the discussions on the sidelines of the current G-20 in India are private. The Chinese move was first reported by the Financial Times. ...
G-20 members rotate their presidency of the group, including the annual summit of world leaders, and the US has said it will take it on after India, Brazil and South Africa complete their respective yearlong stints.
China's objection -- backed by Russia, according to one of the people -- is mostly symbolic as it's unlikely the decision will be reversed. The people asked not to be named since the discussions on the sidelines of the current G-20 in India are private.
The Chinese move was first reported by the Financial Times. ...
#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-09-09 07:10 PM | Reply
Tangentially related...
Then there are events like this...
Huawei has left the US in a frenzy with just one new smartphone techhq.com
... When the US imposed a severe embargo to cut off the supply of high-end chips to Huawei in 2020, many foresaw it being a counterproductive move by Washington. Yes, it might stifle the technological prowess of Huawei, but more than that, it would push the Chinese telecommunications giant to develop its chips more quickly. That, it now emerges, was precisely what happened. Despite a slowdown, Huawei found a way to generate revenue outside its smartphone business over the years. It eventually proved to the world that obtaining US tech might be a want' for China, but certainly was not a need' for the superpower. Last week, Huawei very quietly launched its latest smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro, and to say it created a wave in China would be a supreme understatement. Huawei brought the world to a brief standstill. Many, especially US lawmakers, could not fathom the technological advancement. ...
That, it now emerges, was precisely what happened. Despite a slowdown, Huawei found a way to generate revenue outside its smartphone business over the years. It eventually proved to the world that obtaining US tech might be a want' for China, but certainly was not a need' for the superpower.
Last week, Huawei very quietly launched its latest smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro, and to say it created a wave in China would be a supreme understatement.
Huawei brought the world to a brief standstill. Many, especially US lawmakers, could not fathom the technological advancement. ...
... Huawei brought the world to a brief standstill. Many, especially US lawmakers, could not fathom the technological advancement. ... I've seen the word "shocked" used in articles about this event.
#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-09-09 07:29 PM | Reply
such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization
Indian and Pak armies dancing together at SCO.
youtu.be
SCO's founding principal is "No Americans".
#6 | Posted by Monkeybars at 2023-09-10 09:15 AM | Reply
Strong work, Nixon. You opened China to Western capital.
Now that Capitalism has extracted trillions of dollars from the West and given it to China, China says "Thank you" and closes the door.
Congratulations, Republicans. You Built That!
#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-10 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3
China depends heavily on real estate for their GDP, and that sector isn't looking good. Last I saw they have ghost cities that have around 80-90 million vacant homes.
#8 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-09-10 02:29 PM | Reply
Strong work, Nixon. You opened China to Western capital. Now that Capitalism has extracted trillions of dollars from the West and given it to China, China says "Thank you" and closes the door. Congratulations, Republicans. You Built That!
#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-09-10 01:53 PM
You mean like when Clinton sold the rest of the US for NAFTA... Just kidding, every senator except one voted for NAFTA, and the holdout wasn't Brandon.
#9 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2023-09-10 02:31 PM | Reply
"You mean like when Clinton sold the rest of the US for NAFTA..."
NAFTA does not impact China, but rather our two democratic neighbors.
And since you bright it up, the other candidate in that election also supported NAFTA.
#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-10 03:06 PM | Reply
Hopefully when China takes its ball and goes home we can close the door on buying its substandard goods. Maybe send back their fentanyl while we're at it, since we'll no longer have a reason to tolerate them drugging and killing our citizens.
In any event, we were going to break with them in five or ten years anyway when they invade Taiwan.
#11 | Posted by censored at 2023-09-10 03:19 PM | Reply
Whatabout NAFTA #9 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS
You're such a whiny little nobody.
#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-10 05:35 PM | Reply
China has multiple multi-billion dollar problems right now to solve... the housing market collapse/overbuild/& subsequent bank run (which includes 30% of their total economy),
the Western World, seeing the direct threat and military motions that China was making, has largely withdrawn their support of the Chinese economy, also causing China multiple billions in lost trade.
And finally, a quick cursory Youtube search of 'China flooding' will pull up numerous videos of China's almost annual devestation to their cities infrastructure due to seasonal flooding/ hurricane innundation coupled with a seemingly absent sewer infrastructure system (its happened for multiple years in a row) that costs them billions annualy.
China has to solve a whole lot, at the collective cost of Trillions of Yuan before they can rationally think of taking on the Asian world in their quest to create a regional monopoly/hegemony on the South China Seas.
And they REALLY should rethink their military posturing before they find themselves the probable recipients of a nuclear armed knuckle sandwich. If they think America will allow them to run bully over Taiwan, Japan, S.E. Asia and Australia, they have a serious come uppance in store.
#13 | Posted by earthmuse at 2023-09-10 07:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
#2 if anybody owes the world from which it has stolen so much........
#14 | Posted by fresno500 at 2023-09-10 10:06 PM | Reply
Snoofy is 100 percent on board with this.
#15 | Posted by willowby at 2023-09-10 11:10 PM | Reply
China has multiple multi-billion dollar problems right now to solve... #13 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE
You misspelled Trillion.
China's population is aging so quickly it will lose 40% of its population by 2100 or sooner. That means younger workers will be supporting retirees at rates unheard of.
China's government and municipal debt is well into the 10's of trillions.
China's economy is built around government funded construction currently. And there is no easy or cheap way to pivot. As government funding dries up and the population declines, there is no replacement industry right now.
#16 | Posted by Sycophant at 2023-09-11 10:00 AM | Reply
#16
Not just China. The entire developed world suffers many of these problems right now. Until someone comes up with a way to run an economy and support a social safety net, without growth, the world is in serious trouble.
#17 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2023-09-11 04:36 PM | Reply
Bs. Corruption is out of control. We can even predict inflation since CEOs are gouging as fast as they can, we can't tell what is man made and what is not.
#18 | Posted by fresno500 at 2023-09-11 05:09 PM | Reply
We can't
#19 | Posted by fresno500 at 2023-09-11 09:17 PM | Reply
The no growth social safety net is called population control. It's a dystopian, murderous philosophy That requires extensive purges.
#20 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-12 08:54 AM | Reply
The no growth social safety net is called population control.
Huh? Population control is doing just fine under Capitalism. People aren't having kids because they can't afford it. If it weren't for immigrants our population would be shrinking.
#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 09:34 AM | Reply
No, women just don't want to have kids with you lol.
With no immigration the US population grows by 250k per year based on Census Bureau reporting. You are confusing articles like Forbes reporting a shrinking working age population with being an actual population decline. It is not.
No Growth is a joke.
#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-12 09:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
"You are confusing articles like Forbes reporting a shrinking working age population."
I guess so. The trend is heading towards zero replacement in the next few years.
There's fewer and fewer people having kids, largely because it's unaffordable.
Just like there's more and more people who aren't getting jobs because it's unaffordable to lose their Medicare.
Republicans paint that as a problem with the safety net being too generous, but of course the opposite is true. Employers are too stingy.
#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 10:01 AM | Reply
"No, women just don't want to have kids with you lol."
One already did, according to Republicans.
#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 10:06 AM | Reply
#23 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-09-12 10:01 AM | FLAG:
It's not much of a trend in the last 40 years. From that Census Bureau reporting, the difference in number of children produced by all American women between 1980 and now is only -0.1. It's down from the post-WW2 baby boom, but us being the financial beneficiaries of the rest of the world torching itself is unlikely to happen anytime soon, Russia can't even beat Ukraine.
#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-12 11:08 AM | Reply
#24 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-09-12 10:06 AM | REPLY | FLAG:
Now that's real population control. If people want No Growth you're going to have to bring back Medicaid's 1960s forced sterilizations and greatly expand it. I'm sure it will go over well.
#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-12 11:10 AM | Reply
"Now that's real population control."
No it isn't. It's elective abortion.
#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 11:13 AM | Reply
Fertility rate, total (births per woman) - United States data.worldbank.org
It's about 1.7 births per woman in US. It's under 2 in all the modern countries.
#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 11:20 AM | Reply
It's elective
#27 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2023-09-12 11:13 AM | FLAG:
Coercion isn't required. The ethical concern is that it groups will eventually force coercion, hence the 1960s Medicaid parody. I'm short on drowning baby jokes so I didn't go with One Child China.
#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2023-09-12 12:22 PM | Reply
"Coercion isn't required."
Coercion exists, it just isn't in the form of a government agent doing the coercion.
Hunger is a powerful motivator. As is homelessness.
Thanks, Capitalism!
#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2023-09-12 12:30 PM | Reply
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