#82 said...
I just don't see how you can prove or even make a logical case for any supernatural phenomena.
Please keep trying, I'm open to argument.
>>>>

How about the phenomenon of your existence?..its something that you have zero scientific evidence for; zero mathematical formulas for; zero evidence of any kind for...

But you are so intimate with that knowledge that the moment you say "I do not exist" you see the absurdity of your statement and know yourself to be a liar.

That is what we call an intuitive truth ..a truth beyond nature..a supernatural truth.

Agreed. I didnt prove a personal god. I wasnt making an argument for a personal god, only justifying the intuitive existence of something that is transcendental (beyond matter), enternal, and the source of all the natural world.

Recall the context was a reply to a person who thinks all religious people are superstitious lemmings.

Using the same positivic framework: you couldnt determine if I (or anyone other than you) exist..if you reduce knowledge to that which you personally can experience and test then anything outside that must be disgarded.

Calling the idea of God as nothing more then superstition shows you are unwilling to grant likely patterns based on perception..thus you cannot reasonably assume I or anyone other than you had consciousnesses.

Our basis for God comes from the fact that systems depend on eachother and act reliably even though they have no innate reason for doing so. In other words, causation.

#21

I HIGHLY doubt the truth of that story. Catholics may be a lot of thing but they arent televangelists.

The Church would teach that you should give only if you're able; and that you shouldn't lie about what you gave (Read the acts of the apostles to find out what happened when someone tried that). But the Catholic doesnt demand 10%, 5% or any other amount. In fact St. Paul said let each man give what he has decided in his heart is proper to give.

Furthermore unlike televangelist the Church actually runs a lot of charities..so much so that more charitable work is done in the name of Christ and His Church then is done by any competing group or groups.