Patently absurd to compare the single statements vs the constant vitriol spewed by Trump. Let alone the actual unjust actions he had taken against so many people

#736 | Posted by boaz

Neither Obama or Biden governed like a third to half of the country were the enemy. That is indisputable. Both regularly used conciliatory and uniting language. Biden bent over backwards to invest in red states and red areas.

Trump objectively does not. He regularly demonizes anyone who disagrees with him, he is attacking blue areas, he is obviously intentionally trying to divide us.

You are objectively wrong to say Obama and Biden did not act like your president. You can disagree, even strongly with what they accomplished or attempted to accomplished, but they were enacting a vision that they viewed would benefit ALL Americans, again, like Biden sending the vast majority of CHIPS Act and Infrastructure investments to red areas. That is a fact. Trump does not do that, at all, in fact is actively attacking blue areas and moderate to left wing institutions. That also is a fact.

Please stop being pedantic about terminology, you know what I mean, Republicans have, for decades, been trying to use methods that disenfranchise whole swaths of people, yes Dems do it, but to a FAR less degree and certainly far less effectively. That does not make either right, but an actual reality to deal with.

Boaz, your recommendation is wholly impossible to implement. This is NOT the mid 19th century where political beliefs can generally be divided along regional lines. Yes conservatives are likely the majority in many states as are liberals in many states, but there are literally MILLIONS of conservatives in blue states and vice versa. You are advocating for essentially a permanent second class citizenship for millions of people. Either that or a disruption on a massive scale as millions of people flee from state to state. Simply a bad idea.

#736 | Posted by boaz

Neither Obama or Biden governed like a third to half of the country were the enemy. That is indisputable. Both regularly used conciliatory and uniting language. Biden bent over backwards to invest in red states and red areas.

Trump objectively does not. He regularly demonizes anyone who disagrees with him, he is attacking blue areas, he is obviously intentionally trying to divide us.

You are objectively wrong to say Obama and Biden did not act like your president. You can disagree, even strongly with what they accomplished or attempted to accomplished, but they were enacting a vision that they viewed would benefit ALL Americans, again, like Biden sending the vast majority of CHIPS Act and Infrastructure investments to red areas. That is a fact. Trump does not do that, at all, in fact is actively attacking blue areas and moderate to left wing institutions. That also is a fact.

Please stop being pedantic about terminology, you know what I mean, Republicans have, for decades, been trying to use methods that disenfranchise whole swaths of people, yes Dems do it, but to a FAR less degree and certainly far less effectively. That does not make either right, but an actual reality to deal with.

Boaz, your recommendation is wholly impossible to implement. This is NOT the mid 19th century where political beliefs can generally be divided along regional lines. Yes conservatives are likely the majority in many states as are liberals in many states, but there are literally MILLIONS of conservatives in blue states and vice versa. You are advocating for essentially a permanent second class citizenship for millions of people. Either that or a disruption on a massive scale as millions of people flee from state to state. Simply a bad idea.

#736 | Posted by boaz

Neither Obama or Biden governed like a third to half of the country were the enemy. That is indisputable. Both regularly used conciliatory and uniting language. Biden bent over backwards to invest in red states and red areas.

Trump objectively does not. He regularly demonizes anyone who disagrees with him, he is attacking blue areas, he is obviously intentionally trying to divide us.

You are objectively wrong to say Obama and Biden did not act like your president. You can disagree, even strongly with what they accomplished or attempted to accomplished, but they were enacting a vision that they viewed would benefit ALL Americans, again, like Biden sending the vast majority of CHIPS Act and Infrastructure investments to red areas. That is a fact. Trump does not do that, at all, in fact is actively attacking blue areas and moderate to left wing institutions. That also is a fact.

Please stop being pedantic about terminology, you know what I mean, Republicans have, for decades, been trying to use methods that disenfranchise whole swaths of people, yes Dems do it, but to a FAR less degree and certainly far less effectively. That does not make either right, but an actual reality to deal with.

Boaz, your recommendation is wholly impossible to implement. This is NOT the mid 19th century where political beliefs can generally be divided along regional lines. Yes conservatives are likely the majority in many states as are liberals in many states, but there are literally MILLIONS of conservatives in blue states and vice versa. You are advocating for essentially a permanent second class citizenship for millions of people. Either that or a disruption on a massive scale as millions of people flee from state to state. Simply a bad idea.

#685 | Posted by boaz

Your missing my point boaz.

I agree that the rethoric on both sides is destructive. to argue who started it first is a pointless exercise, neither side will accept the responsibility

What I am saying is that there is literally one person who can change the course of our division.

No matter what you say Obama and Biden did not act anywhere near how Trump acts.

They acted like president of ALL of us and certainly far more than Trump does.

I know you won't accept that simple fact but it is true. Neither Obama or Biden, ON A DAILY BASIS, spoke with the way Trump does of his opposition.

I challenge you to post links to Obama or Biden speaking or acting in the way Trump does with his constant verbal and social media attacks, personal lawsuits against media companies, sending or threatening to send the military into cities controlled by the other party, etc. Trump's words and actions are FAR worse than ANYTHING Obama or Biden ever did.

I am not saying ordinary liberals and dems aren't using similar rhetoric, I freely admit I do

But I have no power, Trump does.

Trump can govern like a conservative, I would not like it, but I argue that we need a normal president.

He can enact all sorts of conservative policies, that is not the central problem right now.

The problem is that the man with by far the most power in our country does not govern like a conservative, he governs like madman authoritarian. He is attacking free speech (far far far more than any dem president has ever), he is suing or threatening media companies, law firms, universities and corporations to his will through the use or threat of use of the full power of the federal government (That is not conservatism), he is extorting businesses to either give him a cut or a stake in their companies-that is LITERAL communism. He is shipping ordinary people to concentration camps or warzones without trial, he is sending or threatening to send federal troops into blue cities over nothing AND SO MUCH MORE.

This is not normal, this is not how our politics have or should run.

The problem is that Trump does not govern like he is the President of all of us, he governs like the entire population are his subjects.

You will argue Obama and Biden did the same but you would be fooling yourself.

And with all that power Trump has he could, easily change the course for our nation. He could govern like he is a President, not a king, for the ENTIRE country and THAT means compromise and RESPECT.

Nothing that dems or liberals could do right now could effect the necessary change in our politics like he could. I would argue that we are in the place we are in because the democrats have been pitiful in responding to the non-stop attack on democracy that has been going on for decades-fox news propaganda, Newt Gingrich, Bush and his wars, McConnell and his efforts to make Obama a 1 term president and on and on. Dems have been pathetic in responding to this onslaught

And ever since Trump came down those escalators in 2015 he has accelerated that anti-democratic program like nothing before. He has broken norms beyond count, he has cowed the republican party and put dangerous people in his government. These people do not care about the constitution, ANY of it, they see no constraints on what they can do. That SHOULD scare even you.

And Trump could LITERALLY become one of America's greatest presidents if he led us out of this. It won't be smooth, but I think it would be a lot easier that people think. All he would need to do is STOP treating anyone who disagrees with him as enemies of the people or vermin, to STOP acting like a dictator,

Govern like a conservative not a dictator.

Blood is on the hands of Trump, the gun lobby and every member of Congress who supports them. I have fought them and won before. I'll do it again."

You don't think that those people/groups aren't even partially responsible for school shootings?

Donald Trump was the antidote to the divisiveness of Obama.

#648 | Posted by BellRinger

How can you take anything this poster says seriously?

I've said it before I'll say it again.

There is only one person who can ratchet back the division and toxicity right now and that is the President of the United States.

He is the end product of a decades long process to undermine liberal democracy in this country.

He expresses NOTHING but hate and division in every act he takes.

While he absolutely rode the wave of division that has been implemented for years by an anti-democratic republican party enabled by a pathetic democrat party, he, single handily, has taken us from a dysfunctional but essentially working culture (while I had massive differences with McCain and Romney I did not doubt they loved their country) to where we are now on the cusp of something VERY dangerous. We have a party that controls all levers of government power, destroying our functioning government that worked, however poorly through some level of compromise, yet universally acts aggrieved that people do not share their narrow view of humanity, led by a man that has destroyed so many norms that allowed our country to operate. A president that demands sycophantic adulation that would make a North Korean dictator say "that is too much".

I will not accept any blame for this. No matter the motivation of this assassination, people can only be pushed so far. People WILL fight back in the only way they can.

Since one man was the primary driving force, one man could lead us out. Trump COULD, single handily, turn everything around and, believe it or not, fairly quickly. he could do the following:

1. Give an Oval Office speech that is comforting and conciliatory to every American that calls on the better angels of our nature.
2. He can use his unique role in the nation to promote unity and reduce conflict-imagine him using this Truth Social and daily pressers and all the -------- we put up with daily to actually unite the country, to call on our common love for our country to stop sowing so much hatred and division.
3. He can stop calling dems and liberals and the press and anyone who disagrees with him the enemy of the people and other vile descriptions.
4. He can use his influence over his very loyal maga supporters to get them to join the rest of us. And we liberals and centrists can welcome them and not judge them i.e. stop the conflict from our end
5. He can stop the truly divisive and dangerous policies like ICE raids and actually develop a humane but secure immigration policy.
6. He can stop the attacks on the important bastions of our nation like universities, law firms and the press
and more stuff along these lines.

I won't happen overnight, but the healing would happen fairly quickly. Despite leftwing and centrist caricature, we actually do not want conflict with our neighbors, we just feel under direct threat by this administration.

We have little power to actually effect change, because the tactics we would need to employ-patience, compromise, compassion will be used by Trump and his minions to inflict further authoritarianism on the country.

No, it is up to him, he could actually be a truly great president if he responded to this moment with humility, empathy and a vision of unifying our country. He could be a savior like Lincoln in that regard.

And again, it is all up to one person.

But I suspect to a near certainty that he will act completely the opposite and use this killing as a justification to further crack down and further paint 60% of Americans as enemies.