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Want to know how much America has turned? This is what the US Department of State website had to say about the American position on Ukraine on Jan. 20, 2025 ( note the date ):

"The United States, our allies, and our partners worldwide are united in support of Ukraine in response to Russia's premeditated, unprovoked, and unjustified war against Ukraine. We have not forgotten Russia's earlier aggression in eastern Ukraine and occupation following its unlawful seizure of Crimea in 2014. The United States reaffirms its unwavering support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, extending to its territorial waters."

Link:www.state.gov

As a European I have for many years supported the position that reliance on the US should be drastically reduced. It suited the Europeans to let the US do the heavy lifting, but it is also the case that the US was, for the most part, happy to do so. That Europe will now have to stand on its own 2 feet is fine by me.

But any sane US administration with a strong will to decouple from Europe, should have been capable of doing so without pursuing such a dishonourable, back-stabbing, untruthful approach. It was certainly possible to decouple without bending the knee to Putin. For Trump and his apologists, there traits are badges of honour; to millions of Americans, they will be just the opposite - a national stain that will last a very long time.

"Yeah, Ukraine's military has faced and done well against the overwhelming force of Russia."

Because they're broke --- ------- who cant even afford themselves? Just an idea to ponder...

#8 | Posted by lfthndthrds"

So lfhndthrds thinks that instead of giving Ukraine the aid in weapons and pther necessities to survive as a nation would be too burdensome for the richest nation on the planet? And do what? Send American troops there to fight? Or, perhaps just tell Trump's butt buddy to take whatever he wants from Ukraine because 1% of our Federal budget is too much to spend supporting an ally who is fighting a war, like it or not, that needs to be won if we want to prevent a much larger invasion of Europe? So the question falls back in lfthndthrds lap.... are we, the United States, going to just let Russia invade as much of Europe as they want because to fund the resistance to that would cost America less than 1% of our Federal Budget? Which effectively stopped Russia's invasion without any American troops in combat? Or should we just tell Ukraine and Zelensky to surrender because we don't want to pay the cost of them defending their country which is minimal compared to the costs of a war between NATO and Russia which is likely to happen if we won't fund Ukraine's defense. The U.S. is part of NATO with treaty obligations to assist them both financially and with military forces in the event of an invasiion from Russia. Ukraine pis not a member of NATO and thus has been fighting alone with our assistance and is prepared to continue as long as we assist them or lomger if we won't. The only reason the United States would decide not to do that is Donald Trump's personal relationship with Putin whatever that may be but America is not priveleged to know the nature of that relationship Trump owes to Putin?. So, we are just being told by Trump we can't afford to assist them any longer in spite of the actual small cost of doing so, Thus, we are left with no other explanation except that Donald Trump is personally indebted to Putin in some way that we are not privvy to. well, I and many other Americans think it is time for us to know what debt Trump owes to Putin?

__________
#8 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2025-02-24 09:33 PM
#9 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2025-02-24 09:34 PM
What has Ukraine ever done for you? ...
Because they're broke --- ------- who cant even afford themselves? Just an idea to ponder...

Have you and Tucker Carlson** been coached together? Because this is one of the stupidest talking points that Russian assets club of "Make America Go Alone" use to deflect from dictator Putin invading Ukraine to subjugate it, erase national identity and fold it into "glorious Russian Federation Empire" before moving on to subsume other countries ... "because they're broke --- ------- who can't even afford to defend themselves. Just an idea to ponder..."

** https://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2022/a-mere-border-dispute/ :
TC: "Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him? Has he shipped every middle-class job in my town to Russia?" Carlson said
as he then recited a rightwing tip sheet of pet causes.

So we know what Putin has done for "private messenger" Carlson - in addition to not calling him racist, he "educated" him on Russia-Ukraine "history" in the Moscow interview, and (instead of taking him hostage) let him have a tour of subway and "univermag" (department store/supermarket).

We know what Putin has been doing for his bully asset (aka "man of peace") Trump.

What has Putin done for you?

Czechoslovakia, Poland, Finland, Baltics "have done nothing" for UK and the USA in 1938-1939, so Neville Chamberlain came back from Munich with "Peace for our time" surrender and Molotov-Ribbentrop signed non-aggression Pact - how did that work out?


What message does this send to Taiwan or other Asian "for now" ("for sale?") allies? What confidence do they have that Trump won't sell them out "for peace or treasure" the same way he sold out Kurds and Ukraine?

If anyone has fantasies of the US becoming "great again" going it alone ("America First" / No to "globalism") and divide the world with brutal dictators, then you don't know there has been a very bloody and expensive history of it not that long ago - it would be a very Cold World for the "isolated Americans":

https://time.com/7006686/history-america-first-dawes/ - History Shows How Dangerous 'America First' Really Is - September 10, 2024

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee - America First Committee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tatum - Paul Tatum (doing business in Russia)
"This is entrepreneurs' heaven. There's no telling how quickly [Russia] could develop and how much it could look like the United States in a very short period of time." - Paul Tatum in 1994... gunned down in Russia in 1996.

TrumPutin wants the USA look like Russia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/31/russia-ukraine-rubio-trump/ - Counting up the costs if the U.S. chooses to lose in Ukraine - January 31, 2025

This is about the future - not "globalism" or transactional "who has done what / how much for whom" in the past.
Not getting the vibe yet?
__________

Well, yeah.

Just look at this photo from the Helsinki Conference of Pres Trump's first term ...

foreignpolicy.com

Can you say, "subservient?"

I knew you could.

Pres Putin, in that pic, looks like he has pawned Pres Trump.

And the really sad aspect of that photo is that Pres Trump does not seem to be doing anything to counter that view since then.

Indeed, in his current sucking up to the Pres Putin lies, he seems only to be justifying that viewpoint.

&nbs

@#1 ... Either way, he want's NATO protection... ...

As have Finland and Sweden recently. Joining NATO to protect and defend against Russia's aggression.

Ukraine's military has shown itself to be a robust defense fighting force against Russian aggression.

So, why wouldn't the US want Ukraine to join NATO?

www.af.mil

... Hegseth said. "In short, we want the biggest, most badass military on the planet." ...

Yeah, Ukraine's military has faced and done well against the overwhelming force of Russia.

Why wouldn't we want Ukraine in NATO to help us defend ourselves?


@#59 ... Common sense is back in this nation, now. ...

You mean like ...

fortune.com

...Q: "I understand that. That's why I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash."

TRUMP: "Because I have common sense. OK? ...



That type of common sense?

Boaz, the thread link goes to this article:

CNN panel gets heated as Scott Jennings calls for Trump to absolutely defy' courts blocking his executive actions

www.yahoo.com

I'm sure you agree with Scott Jennings.

Trump is your King, how dare the Judicial Branch correct his gross overreach and incompetence!

As for DailyMail.UK.

It's fkkking laughable you get your news from a tabloid.

You really are an idiot.

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