Once again, the headline is a lie F.S. 847.012 is not new, it has been on the books for decades . Providing pornography to minors is, and has been a felony in Florida and most likely, 49 other states.

The article seeks to conflate the often misrepresented "Don't Say Gay" bill (which concerns age appropriate curriculum) with -------------------- statutes.. They are not the same thing. The new law has NO criminal penalties, no felony or misdemeanor prosecutions are possible. it is a CIVIL statute.

Should teachers be concerned? Yes, they should, because it has become increasingly common for edgy, progressive authors to include sexually graphic language, particularly in "coming of age" stories targeted at LGBTQ teens. The authors intent may be inclusivity and outreach to kids struggling with their sexuality, but detailed descriptions of sexual activity can easily run afoul of pornography and obscenity laws.

This issue is not new or restricted to Florida. If you think Floridas pornography laws are unreasonable, I suggest you take a look at the laws in your own state.

Between the wars,
opioid overdoses, COVID,
and normal human mortality
I've had plenty to keep me busy.

Didn't need Trump
trying to add to my job.

We'll meet soon.
He won't be happy.

"The problem I have with that sample is that I do not know how representative it is of those who vote.

When the thread is about how the state of Florida should behave, should a coupe of "kids" be an appropriate way to determine the policy of the state of Florida?

#169 | Posted by LampLighter at 2023-01-29 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Absolutely not. Just my own anecdotes. To answer your question, the policy of the state of Florida should be determined by the voters of the State of Florida, don't you think?

I don't drink Rein.

#21 | POSTED BY BLUEWAFFLES AT 2023-01-29 04:14 PM | REPLY

You should start.

@#7 ... what are the dashes? ...

The Dashes are what happen when I say things like, I think the Fox executives should give up one of their fucking balls for each of these violations. That is how seriously i view this, in my view, intentional violation of FCC rules by Fox.

My post #104 was directed to Lamplighter. I don't normally respond (intentionally) to Snoofy, but I will complete the thought. Florida schools are NOT removing rainbow flags from their classrooms. The law covers CURRICULUM and CLASSROOM INSTRUCTION. Rainbow flags and pictures of spouses are NOT CURRICULUM or CLASSROOM INSTRUCTION. If a kid asks "who is that" and the teacher says, "My wife", there is no violation of the law. If the kids want to pepper the teacher with a barrage of personal questions, the teacher should answer in the same manner that any teacher who has normal boundaries separating their personal life from professional life would answer. If the teacher decides to turn it into a lesson plan for 2nd graders, and discuss same sex marriage, with specific descriptions of how they express their love in the bedroom, then you have a problem. That is the sort of thing the law covers. Not flags and family photos.

"Because as Tao explained in #14 these laws DeSantis is instituting are meant to, and do, silence through intimidation.

#70 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2023-01-29 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag: "

I see your point, but I don't buy that Liberal teachers are intimidated. Unions are powerful, and know the strength of activism. Nobody is going to be fired for a rainbow, but several have already very publicly resigned citing alleged "fear". It shouldn't be hard for the unions to engage an activist teacher (especially one who is planning to quit over this anyway) to test the waters, push the envelope and become a victim of this law....but they won't because they already know rainbows are a non issue. At this point, they are milking it for all it is worth as an wedge issue. They have no need to "test the waters" or try to effect change when they are getting so much mileage out of simply lying about what they law does, and does not prohibit.

For Liberals this isn't about kids, or free speech or LGBTQ issues in Florida or anywhere else. It is about stopping Desantis from becoming President.

I remember a teacher being required to remove a printout of the Declaration of Independence from the classroom because it has the word God in it. Pride flags are along the same lines probably even more so.

Why are conservatives so adamant to put guns in schools and remove rainbows from classrooms.
Can you understand how you're over propagandized pawns?

#22 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Keep in mind that republicans want to arm teachers who they think are grooming kids.

Why not?

Don't like being called groomers then don't ask stupid questions like that.

I am sure that a blue state like California would have no problem if one of their teachers brought in a conservative book, not on the approved state lesson plan/reading book list, right???

Fox News: The beating of Tyre was done by black Officers so its not racism and therefore this nation doesn't have a problem with police brutality!

I remember when Dallas put one of these together for a particular area overrun with drugs and prostitutes walking the street.

They had to disband it later because the officers partly took over the drug trade and were sleeping with the prostitutes...as well as beating people.

Can't bring Hustler into a first grade classroom. According to Yav, that is apparently fascist.

I hit a nerve. I don't mean to impune your false religion and fake earth goddess. Feel free to make whatever futile gesture you think will appease her. Leave us normals alone. Mkay.

#7

Funny thing about those Patriot Bibles - they're all missing the 7th and 8th Commandments.

Hey-those ----- pills aren't going to buy themselves, and those endorsements from DJTJ and his gal pal Kimmy G. Carry great weight with the buyers ...

#3 Like climate change alarmists.

Every con artist in the country knows the trump base is the biggest bunch of suckers they can possibly target.

It's why george santos is in congress now.

Phony, Fake, Fraud, Criminal, Traitor

Sounds better than Person Woman Man Camera TV

So a nut job with right-wing political beliefs breaks into the home of one of the most powerful people in the Democratic party, attacks her husband with a hammer within view of the police, and it's all caught on camera, and after the video is made public the assailant calls the media to brag and say he didn't go far enough ... but according to some, maybe it was a gay spat or a drug deal gone bad. Do I have that right?

I'd like the opposite. Every single federal tax be eliminated EXCEPT income tax. No gas tax, no cigarette tax, nothing at all. Then set a progressive income tax with no deductions whatsoever.

I want any tax increases to show up immediately in people's paychecks so we know exactly when they vote to increase our taxes.

I'd like to see:

25k and under: 0%
25001-50k: 20%
50001-100k 25%
100001-500k 30%
500001-5000000 35%
5000001+ 40%

And include ALL sources of income. Stock? Valued at the time given and again at the time sold with the additional revenue taxed at the above rates.

The rich and especially rich and famous are given so much free crap for the advertising it comes with, the rich would never pay taxes again.

@#97 ... Now you do how this is about Liberals (all over the country) being concerned about kids (in Florida)... ...

Simple, it is not just Florida were Liberals are expressing their concerns.

In the case of Florida, however, it is a wider concern because Gov DeSantis is using it nationally to cement his bona fides for 2024 (or 2028).

So, really, the question your comment should be asking is why does Gov DeSantis seem to want this to be such a big deal outside of Florida?

Florida. America's ----.

#2 | POSTED BY LEGALLYYOURDEAD

No, no, no.

You see there is an ---- and around the ---- are some hemorrhoids, and occasionally a hemorrhoid will become infected due to unsafe ---- sex with a syphilitic hobo and that infection will have pus and that pus will draw flies and the flies will give birth in the festering, infected hemorrhoid, creating maggots and the maggots will poop into the syphilitic infected festering pus from the diseased hemorrhoid.

The odor given off by that ---- is Florida.

JeffJ is the person licking that ----.

"Teachers are the #1 source of molestation

#188 | Posted by stoneher at 2023-01-29 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag: "

No they aren't, it's Stepfather/Mom's boyfriend, followed closely by Uncles, but those never make the news, because naming the suspect would expose the identity of the child victim.

@#81 ... For Liberals this isn't about kids, or free speech or LGBTQ issues in Florida or anywhere else. It is about stopping Desantis from becoming President. ...

Not really.

Liberals have been fighting for these things since way before Gov DeSantis had mentioned his desire to become President. Indeed, Florida is not the only place where Liberals fight for these.

@#91 ... age-appropriate classroom material ...

Is it defined anywhere in the law exactly what "age-appropriate" means, or is it left vague intentionally (as in Florida's "Don't Say Gay" law), so that the law can be widely applied to nearly anything?

Republicans seem intent to show that there is voter fraud, even if they have to apparently commit the fraud themselves.

Most obscenities laws are written with a ton of vagueness due to first amendment issues. As such there is a lot of wiggle room for what you could be arrested for or not. Now in most cases there extreme reading of obscenity laws will be thrown out at some point in the legal proceeding, however not too many people want to be arrested and deal with all the issues that go with that. You are talking possible years long case that might include prison time, loss of job and stature in the community, potential sex offender registration with the issues that go with that.

So by threatening to strictly enforce obscenity laws you are creating an environment where most people will assume and behave as if the strictest possible interpretation of intentionally vague laws is the actual law. The law makers know this and so IMHO it is a direct violation of people's first amendment rights as you are silencing people through threats of enforcement.

I'm not going to be the guy that challenges it lands in jail and craters my life and until someone decides to be the test case things will stand as they do now.

"He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws " he would make a Trump."

Michael Stevenson

This article helps me understand why so many Evangelicals support Trump:

Onishi: A lot of folks are now very familiar with the phrase "white privilege," but the writer Chrissy Stroop has helped me understand "Christian privilege" in the United States. The idea is that if you are a Christian person " especially a white Christian person " you are given a kind of benefit of the doubt in the public square. When you use rhetoric that can only be classified as extreme, it's often written off, and it doesn't set off the alarm bells that would be set off if you were a Muslim person or if you were someone who was neither Christian nor white.

Many people imagine the white Christian still to be Ned Flanders from The Simpsons " the kind of pesky, moralist neighbor up the street who doesn't want people to use bad language or drink too much beer at the barbecue. But we really should envision him as Mr. Burns, the person who wants absolute control over the public square and who will use any means necessary to get it.

Had Trump simply conceded the election, just like every other losing POTUS candidate in history, Ashli Babbitt would still be alive.

"Nie zapomnij klikn reklamy, kretynie!"

Billy Boy, is that you? Have you gotten tired of Russian? Slow night in Rochester?

The preconceived false narrative that all conservatives are homophobic bigots is also damaging.
#167 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

By your anecdote, those fathers would have happily remained homophobic bigots if it hadn't ever affected them personally.
Thank you for pointing that out about them.

You tell the story of reluctant acceptance -- only when it's their own children.
It's not the exoneration of homophobic bigotry among Conservatives you think it is.

In fact, it underscores the stereotype that conservatives are homophobic bigots.
Something you've been doing this entire thread, I might add.

"He had been conditioned (by the media and his peers) to believe his family would reject him because of their religious beliefs, and when they didn't, he wished he hadn't waited so long."

I doubt it was all the media and his peers' fault that the kid feared his parents reaction. The parents obviously didn't convey to their child that they were tolerant of a gay lifestyle. If they had, the kid would have known the he had nothing to fear when he came out to them.

@#167 ... Two of my kids were art/theater kids ...

The problem I have with that sample is that I do not know how representative it is of those who vote.

When the thread is about how the state of Florida should behave, should a coupe of "kids" be an appropriate way to determine the policy of the state of Florida?

#20 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

So instead of falling in line with a perfectly good explanation about being a gay escort that Paul Pelosi called, Depape lays out a massively unbelievable narrative about attempting to be the vehicle of justice to stop democrats from further harming his country, and by doing so implicated himself in crimes involving breaking and entering and attempted murder.

And according to BLUEWAFFLES, he's doing this to undermine his own legitimate defense, purposefully. And it's all based on Paul Pelosi potentially holding a cocktail in his left hand.

Makes a lot of sense, eh GAL?

Her win is one step from getting an upgraded cabin on the Titanic. It will not end well ...

The bigger question, is why does anyone need to dance so close to the edge of the pornography laws

The point with overly broad laws is you don't have to dance close to the line to cross it in the minds of those who enforce such laws. When the charges are so severe and the top of government has expressed their desire to identify and enforce a particular subject matter strictly, I get very concerned about de facto censorship or even actual censorship.

You are essentially demanding self imposed censorship. I'm pretty strongly against censorship and the threat is all that is needed. Just because no one has been hauled away yet doesn't make the threat any less.

It doesn't matter if it's one teacher or one school district or the whole state. If anyone is even considering removing any suspected gay imagery due to this law or interpretation then it's censorship.

A fine means legal for a price.

#112

The problem is that pornography laws are so broad that they very well could be used to arrest someone because the police didn't like what they said or taught. The fact that the case would eventually be tossed out is immaterial to people who risk arrest by it. Especially over a 3rd degree felony. Given the current political environment in FL right now this is clear intimidation of teachers by the government. You can say nothing will come of it all you want but if you were a teacher in FL how worried might you be? Personally I would do everything I could to stay on the right side of the law which once again is so broad that it could easily be used as a cudgel.

The problem is every time you think oh they won't go that far they do. How many times does something "shocking and unexpected" have to happen before it is expected and no longer shocking?

"Nope, you are wrong again. Look at the law"

The law:

(b)Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that contains any matter defined in s. 847.001, explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, or sexual conduct and that is harmful to minors.

"and that is harmful to minors."

Please define the criteria that makes printed matter "harmful to minors."

Please also state the statutes or relevant case law that finds that exposure to gay pride is not harmful to minors.

@#88 ... You're wrong. This is about intellectual freedom and treating children with dignity and respect. ...

Yup.

fwiw, tangentially related...

"For Liberals this isn't about kids, or free speech or LGBTQ issues in Florida or anywhere else."

^
You're wrong. This is about intellectual freedom and treating children with dignity and respect.

"It is about stopping Desantis from becoming President."

^
That is also about intellectual freedom.

Clearly the left thinks this type of meterial should be incorporated into the classroom.
#68 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

All you got are lies.

Lies are why this law was passed.

Lies, conservatives use to attack homosexuals and kill freedom.