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#4 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-08 04:50 PM | FLAG:

Unfortunately with Delta, now the dominant strain, the viral load being lower among vaccinated is not true. The rest of it generally is - while the viral load jumps equally as high, statistically the vaccinated do have less severe symptoms and for a shorter duration. Near as I understand it, the Delta variant is so virulent it ramps up to massively higher viral loads than others, faster than the immune system can respond - however once it begins to respond, the vaccinated immune system handles bringing it back down quicker and and with generally less symptoms than the unvaccinated can expect.

One of the reasons I tend to argue that unless we come up with a better vaccine, the coronavirus isn't going anywhere - it's now endemic. Of course, I'm not in any way arguing against getting vaccinated - you're still 5 times less likely to contract it - not really an impressive number, but far better than nothing - and 11 times less likely to die from it according to most recent CDC data.

I'm not at ALL siding with the antivaxxers, but unfortunately my standard left wing distrust of anything profit driven and disgust with money in politics doesn't have high hopes for a better vaccine to come out any time soon though. When you have Big Pharma rush out a vaccine under Trump that loses half it's efficacy against infection (not severe infection, that seems to retain 90% efficacy) in just 6 months seeing a likelihood of more profit from endless boosters bought with tax dollars from politicians with stock in their companies and bribery, er, lobbying as usual, to keep pushing mandates to force demand, there's not exactly a lot of motive for them to improve upon the situation.

Take that with a grain of salt. I think in the politicization of this vaccine we've ended up with a lot of Republicans pretending Covid is a conspiracy and the vaccine is somehow more dangerous than the virus when it is demonstrably not, both statistically and anecdotally as the place I work at hasn't lost one vaccinated patient, when we lost close to 20% of them in the initial wave of the virus, but I think we also have a lot of Democrats so eager to oppose Republican idiocy that they've enshrined this vacccine as perfect and unknowingly become as in denial of reality as Trump himself when he claimed one day the virus would magically "just disappear." It's VASTLY better than nothing, but we're going to have to accept at some point that even 100% vaccine compliance is not going to eliminate this virus, and we need to continue r&d as well as not letting down our guard despite the fact I think we're all universally "Covid fatigued."

5 | POSTED BY TWINPAC AT 2021-10-06 04:55 PM | FLAG:

Not bad advice - and I may talk to my doctor. But I may be okay. I was honestly just hoping for more feedback from the group here, since it's small but from all over and all walks of life - wondered how everyone else reacted. But as I said, I may be okay by the booster. The truth is I lied a little on my vaccine paperwork. You weren't supposed to have had Covid in the last 90 days, but I had had it about 45 days before.

I work in a skilled nursing facility though, long term care. Nothing glamorous, but I love the field and keep going up in it, currently one of the department heads in my company and Covid killed almost 1/5 of our residents. I've never seen anything so horrible or tragic in my life. Families outside a window, while a hospice priest I had to rapid test and help gown, mask, faceshield, and glove up was giving last rights to a patient who couldn't breathe on 10 lpm of O2 and the hospitals could do nothing for tragic. I was taking no chances with natural immunity alone after that.

Incidentally, I wasn't the only one to respond like that. Half our management team was out that day with the same symptoms. Basically, all of us who'd had to be out on the floor assisting the bare bones of what was left of our staff - sometimes up to 16 to 20 hours a day. We couldn't come to anything conclusive, but best we could come up with was maybe they had caught Covid too, but were asymptomatic or low enough viral load to not show up on a test (we were testing weekly) or drew false negatives, and that was why we all got hit so hard.

So that's why I was throwing that out here. Did everyone else on this site get no side effects? And honestly, I don't care either way, after that experience, I'll take a ------ day on the couch to not bring the virus in to an elderly population and see that happen again. But I'm definitely curious.

It is one of the saddest things I have ever witnessed that these vaccines became politicized.

I swear both sides just make the other one dig in harder and dumber. No false equivalence, the (mostly) right wing side is by far the most harmful of the 2.

Over on the right wing side you have idiots literally willing to risk dying to prove ... I'm actually not sure what they're trying to prove. Just that they are idiots and are willing to risk dying for it.

On the left, a lot of magical thinking and denial - somehow the vaccine is both totally effective, which you're not allowed to question, but completely ineffective unless everyone complies, because one unvaccinated could give it to everyone. So ... not that effective? The truth is a little in between. No vaccine is 100% effective, hence the drive for herd immunity, but looking at highly vaccinated nations like Israel and Singapore, it's entirely possible this virus is simply endemic at this point and even 100% compliance will not achieve herd immunity. The effectiveness of this vaccine just does not rate up there with the effectiveness of examples like measles, with its 97% effectiveness that lasts years or decades. So every time the left goes on about how effective this vaccine is, the right cherry picks a piece of news about yet another person catching Covid while fully vaccinated, or in a few, but a growing number of cases, dying from it despite being fully vaccinated. This just erodes the left's credibility, who get mad and blame the unvaccinated for that person catching it, even though they could have gotten it from someone vaccinated, and everyone just keeps getting madder at each other and digging in harder.

I still wouldn't worry too much about the left's position on that - it's not exactly harmful - but I fear it breeds a false sense of security. I'd much rather see mandated daily *testing* for Covid in health care than mandated vaccines, for instance. Yeah, it's LESS likely - but the truth is the vaccine does work to reduce symptoms and mortality - so how do I know that the nurse standing next to me complaining about her allergies isn't actually experiencing reduced Covid symptoms, and about to go infect someone immune compromised? You can fire every last unvaccinated, and yet that remains a risk. TEST.

As for the right, I just don't know. Keep educating. And while I respect the right of adults to be stupid with their own life, I don't respect their right to subject children to that. The one mandate I can get totally behind is vaccinating children the instant the vaccine is approved.

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