Agree with Clownshack. No other ruling was expected.

Suicide or not, it was allowed to happen. The only question is through an unbelievable number is coincidences and incompetence, or outside influence.

"I did not have homicidal relations with that man."

- Bill Clinton

Honestly, I think the 2 things to watch at this point are Ghislaine Maxwell and whether investigations really do continue on.

The Clintons make for a funny meme, but they're also politically somewhat has-beens. I'm not sure how much political capital they have to go around eliminating rivals at this point, without being told they're on their own. Not that enough money can't ultimately buy past that issue. Were Trump involved, I think the most conspicuous sign would be his silence, not a barrage of Tweets to needle his enemies about it. His hangers-on are practically a revolving door as well - reports would be leaking about panic from his camp. At the top of the executive branch though, a sudden drop of investigations would certainly pique suspicion.

What we do know or know of as rumor:

- There was never any reliable final word on whether the initial incident a couple weeks ago was suicide or an attack.

- There were systemic errors regarding guards and rounds, as well as overtime and so staffing issues. At the exact time of death.

- Conflicting reports regarding screaming at the time of death or all quiet.

- Somehow the prisoner in the biggest case of the century was not on camera.

- He was taken off suicide watch for no reason.

- 4Chan had a time stamped report of his death out half an hour or so before any major media.

- His case at least loosely implicated a sitting president, a former president, more strongly implicated 2 members of Congress, foreign dignitaries, A list stars, and more. A great deal of money and power that if not out to all actively murder him, could have been quite willing to fund an opportunity for his suicide. Which his jail seems to have provided. The first in what, 12 years?

- He was a narcissistic mess who was apparently spending up to 12 hours a day with his lawyers, which while not proof, muddies the water about his motive for suicide. That sounds like someone who wants to build a case - or possibly locate documents and trade info for immunity or reduced sentencing. Minimally, a narcissist like that trying to drag everyone down with them seems more likely than suicide. My pure speculation though.

- He previously got a completely unrealistically light sentence in part for not implicating others.

- Speculation about being a CIA plant / providing leverage over who knows what people.

Something is very, very wrong here.

IS NOBODY GOING TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOW BADLY THOSE HEELS CLASH WITH THAT DRESS?!?

There. I feel better now.

Who TF needs an AR or AK to defend their home? My grandmother lived by herself for decades. A shotgun behind a hall door was all she ever felt she needed to protect herself. Pistols used to be what people who carried valuables like money or gems used to protect themselves. The rest of Americans didn't feel it was necessary. Because it wasn't.

#73 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2019-08-14 09:08 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

An AR is just a scary looking .22.

I'm not, unless I'm one of the 12 on the jury at his trial. And I won't be since I live in San Antonio, not Philadelphia,

#17 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-08-14 07:08 PM | FLAG: Lucky bastard.

Favorite, most beautiful city I've ever been in, to me at any rate. At Ft Sam Houston for training once, and back again several times for a girl living near there. Not that she didn't have something to do with that impression. Still, loved the atmosphere, architecture, river walk, etc.

Watch this become a thing. "Dogs playing poker" next to "Bill Clinton in drag."

The Russian narrative has not ceased to amuse me. Hillary supporters freaking out that a rival country may have influenced an election by - wait for it - revealing a few facts. Such as the ridiculous way she colluded with the DNC to steal the nomination. No one is angry at her for being such an awful candidate. Just that the truth about it came out.

A conspiracy theory with a side of shoot the messenger. Plus Russia still hiding under the Democrat's beds. Not to mention millions wasted on trying to prove Trump had anything to do with the info that came out.

Not that Russia hasn't tried to influence the US. But the left keeps pretending like Russia is just siding with the right, when Russia is siding with both extremes trying to divide the populace and weaken the nation as a whole. Something all these partisan hacks seem to have forgotten even exists.

This used to be the Democrat argument for strong borders. I remember when the talking point was Republicans enjoyed weak borders so businesses could hire cheap labor and stiff the working class.

Anything to oppose Trump though, no matter how hypocritical. This kind of thing is why I keep saying the left left me.

Never mind. Got Safari too.

Huh. Got it on Firefox, but both Chrome and Safari were a no-go. Samsung browser wouldn't reload the page, but got straight there from only typing drudge.com.

Whatever you do, don't just search "Roger's gerbil broke."

Beautifully said Danni. Pro-choice myself, but that doesn't mean I want abortion used as regular birth control. I find it ethically questionable, and would be far more comfortable if we knew more about when consciousness truly begins - but I'm not about to argue with someone who's been through a traumatic rape, or even seeing all their best laid career and plans tumbling down over a broken condom in just the first trimester. Hence being also all for highly accessible birth control and education in the first place.

As for Gabbard herself, I'd vote for her in a heartbeat over Trump. But she's about the only one. Ultimately, after everything else, I'm a single issue voter, and that's anti-war. Bernie might still make that category, he was my choice in 2016, but his age actually worries me now. The rest are unfortunately the usual batch of hypocrites and liars. Edwards has some great policy listed, but her plays to identity politics turn me off. All the other serious candidates are too interventionalist to ever have my vote. And not one of them reflects my views on borders, which dates back to the days Democrats stood for more border control while Republicans wanted cheap labor able to filter in easily.

I'm betting I wasn't nearly as surprised as Epstein to wake up to this news.

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-08-09 08:37 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

I think Not_Aborted_Enough was referencing my comment - though what that had to do with starting the thread is beyond me.

Apparently I'm alt right for being on the left but criticizing what I think are some of the shortcomings of where the left has been going recently. Tragically, I seem to be getting old, and remembering when the left stood for things like peace and freedom of speech, even (gasp) the freedom to offend. They've gotten a little authoritarian for my taste lately and I'd like to see it go back.

It's funny though. Illustrated the point of my first comment perfectly.

Go figure. Left wingers excitedly jumping in cause "muh Russia." When it is most commonly left wing sources printing the most about race, racism, white supremacy, etc, and fanning the flames of division.

No damn self-awareness.

Though to be self aware, here I am calling out the left. And this is the problem. Pointing fingers and calling out sides instead of calling for unity. I'm doing it myself. Although I at least do it out of the hope I can get others on the left to realize all this worry about intersectionality, social justice at the cost of trying to bring those at the top down rather than bring those at the bottom up, etc is leading to nothing but more resentment and polarization.

But also, too many on the left don't realize they're being played. Russia is in a propaganda war, and the left thinks they're only backing the right - they aren't. They're backing every extreme, anything to increase polarization and widen the rifts in our nation.

Does anyone actually know any real white supremacists in real life?

These attacks obviously happened. There are definitely white supremacists out there, and no question they are deadly, but what are the real numbers we're talking about? To the best of my knowledge, I've never met one. In fact, until just a couple years ago, they seemed something that would only be relegated to some backwoods area of the Appalachian mountains, just a few ignorant hicks still living in last century, far from the majority of civilization.

Not that I haven't encountered racism. Even from my own parents on dating black and Mexican women. But even that hasn't been acceptable for a long time. Nor is it equivalent to this kind of violent extremism.

So much of this kind of reporting seems aimed at increasing the radicalization. Rage brings views after all, and those internet clicks to excite advertiser money are all that matter. I'm not sure articles like this are making things better. It just dredges up more racial tension, you have more white people being told they're bad, and how many times does someone have to be told they are bad before it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy? Why do none of these articles call for unity of groups and demonize only the responsible individual?

I see why you were aborted. Tell your mom to keep up the good work.

I'm not sure there even is a right thing to do here.

Leaving China alone to manipulatre currency and screw us with tariffs on our goods certainly wasn't doing a whole lot of good.

One could argue that higher prices exporting goods from China will be hard in the short run, but good in the long run as it could allow businesses to spring up employing US citizens - more jobs, more productivity, etc. But the infrastructure isn't there. Will we be able to create it?

Anyone able to spring in with something more than orange man bad / haha -------- triggered?

#15 | POSTED BY ABORTED_MONSON AT 2019-08-02 07:39 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Lying? Please. I've posted here a long time, if sparsely the last several years, and one thing I have always been is consistent.

I am first off, an almost single issue voter - I am anti-war for anything but an attack on our home turf. Too many I served with will never come back from Bush's war crimes in the Middle East. But I lost faith in the democrats with Obama. Continue and expand on wars, on domestic surveillance, on bailing out the rich while leaving the 99% to pick up their tab while losing their homes, Footing a health care act written by insurance lobbyists while telling us single payer was off the table even though dems had the house and senate. He was nothing but a neocon in democrat's clothing and Hillary was worse. She didn't even try to hide her willingness to lord it over other nations we have no right setting foot in.

Now take the current crop of democrats. I have always stood for freedom, sometimes to the extent of disagreeing with fellow leftists. I am pro-second amendment for instance, because I want an armed proletariet capable of rising up. I want women and minorities armed in the face of racists and misogynists. I have stood for freedom of speech and the right to offend as far back as when I was a child and the right wing religious busybodies were up in arms against the "piss Christ." Against the government having any say in who is in your bedroom or what you do to your own body. Drugs, abortion, sex change - I do not care. But this current crop of democrats have changed. Too many for limiting speech, perfectly fine with government intrusion into people's lives and businesses, the new moral busybodies taking the mantle from the puritans, the Victorians, and the religious right before them. Too worried about offending instead of protecting the right to offend with unpopular speech. Too willing to take up the mantle of war hawks, even while hypocritically teaching at home about the evils of colonialism. Too willing to take away people's right to self-defense even while shrieking about oppressors. Almost... as if they aren't really interested in empowerment and freedom so much as control and dividing the populace against each other, while they, the ruling class maintain their revolving doors among lobbyists and lawmakers, while they seize more power in the name of protecting the oppressed.

And economically, I'm straight up a democratic socialist. I believe the people own the rights of production, of the fruits of their labor and shared natural resources. I believe we should have massively stronger social safety nets, and should expand education to minimally k-14, if not straight through a bachelor's or full trade so as to be more competitive on the world market. Should have single payer, both to cover all, and again - make our businesses, now footing the greater part of insurance benefits - more competitive in the world market, which mostly does not have that onus on them. Perhaps a form of basic universal income.

So explain how I'm not liberal or more, when my problem with democrats is their increasing resemblance to the authoritarians and puritans we once fought against.

The only thing I side with Republicans on, is that Democrats deserve to lose until they get their ---- together. Which in my world, means stand for individual freedom to the greatest possible extreme, stand for peace at all costs, and fight for a government that serves the people effectively. Not divide people with identity politics, not control what is and isn't acceptable to do, think, or say. And last, not to change my views on issues such as immigration or foreign policy 180 degrees at the drop of a hat because the party holding the presidency changed. If there's one thing I hate more than authoritarianism, it's a hypocrite.

I bet there aren't any aliens at Area 51, either
#7 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT 2019-08-01 08:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG

There aren't. They're undocumented earthlings. Damn galactic xenophobes.

Liberty and justice for all who can afford it system working as intended. Just a little collateral damage when we all know the important question is did the bail bond company that would have paid the wannabes who couldn't make the low bar to being actual LEOs recoup their losses?

Obama's legacy was one of utter failure from the standpoint of one who voted for him in 2008.

Eight more years of war, plus what was left ongoing when he left office.

Not one banker prosecuted after the recession.

Increase rather than abolition of Patriot Act type powers, NSA, domestic spying, extra-judicial killings, etc.

Foreign policy indistinguishable from neocon predecessors.

Not even an attempt at single payer.

Continuing militarization of police forces.

Ongoing war on (some) drugs, while not even allowing buying cheaper from countries like Canada, to keep the cash flow going for approved drug dealers.

Etc

This is why Hillary lost. The even more hawkish successor who wished to carry on that legacy was somehow supposed to excite the democrat base, based on that? And yet, somehow the candidates for 2020 have caught on that Obama failed the left, yet have completely misconstrued the conclusion to believe they need to be more left - not on healthcare, social safety net, education, and above all, foreign policy (though many have included some of the healthcare and education bits at least) but gone more left instead on immigrants over citizens, on racial divisions they are helping to cause, on idiotic plans to just "forgive" student debt rather than fix the broken over-expensive system. Or worse, on foreign policy, they haven't even gone left, they've gone right when Trump went left just for the sake of opposition.

It's no shock they've turned on Obama. What is shocking is how they've managed to focus on the most self-defeating, divisive possible ways of doing so. A bunch of authoritarian pro-war "leftists" far more concerned with being socially than economically and internationally left, pandering to illegal immigrants and Twitterati incapable of seeing outside their own bubble.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 101.

When you've been advantaged all your life, equality feels like punishment.
#8 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-08-01 08:08 PM | FLAG:

And in this seemingly innocuous statement is the means by which the left actually sets up Trump to be more popular with moderates than they are. Equality should feel exactly the same to the "privileged." They are the actual baseline by which everyone should be treated. The less privileged should feel empowered and raised up, not the more privileged feeling suddenly attacked and brought down. IF the left actually cared about equality, they would understand this, rather than the divisive way identity politics are used - a wedge in a bid on exploiting changing demographics to their benefit.

The left has lost the message. Intersectionality has been used to turn groups on each other. Unity has been utterly lost, where once there was an opportunity to enact real social and economic change - no war but class war, remember that one? - now the proletariat is fractured and at each other's throats. Trans groups against TERFS, POC against disadvantaged whites, Democrats that suddenly support war out of pure tribalism when Trump bumbles onto the right course of trying not to engage us in more foreign conflict.

Not to mention lastly, the pure unadulterated hypocrisy of Democrats attacking the right as racist. Trump says a few mean things and continues on the same course as Obama for border security and he's a Nazi flag waving Klan member. Democrats outright engage in colonial occupation of foreign countries and enact policies or support groups that cause civil wars with hundreds of thousands of casualties (looking at Obama, the droner-in-chief and Senator/ SOS Hillary Clinton who never met a war she didn't vote for or a conflict such as the Arab Spring she didn't fan the flames of) - all to foreign brown people overseas of course - and even though the damage to humanity, the atrocities and human rights trampled were many orders of magnitude worse than anything Trump has ever done - it wasn't in our backyard. So they get a free pass, and attack Trump as the racist. Which does nothing but further raise up division here at home, increasing extremism and polarization.

And yet the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, social mobility stratifies. And idiots keep eating up all the oppression olympics, the divisions, the anger at each other rather than the actual oppressors who only see one color anyway - green.

At this rate, Trump has the election in the bag.