Zarnon,

I'm curious about something.

How do you interpret Paul's statement, "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

Like most people I find that to be in contradiction of Jesus' teachings.

Maybe the contradiction is just that its all BS? Jesus, Paul, thd Bible, all of it? That thought has been creeping in. And it's not because I want it to. It's because people keep hammering away at me. Mocking God, calling Jesus a myth, acting like faith is for the weak and gullible. And the more I hear it, the more I feel like I'm being worn down.

Maybe I should abandon what has given me strength in my life.

If I did turn my back on God and it turned out He is real, those who contributed to my change of heart will be charged with being a stumbling block. Matthew 18:6 Jesus said the punishment for being a stumbling block is severe. Jesus is quoted, "it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Honestly, posting on this site is exhausting. Spiritually, mentally.

So I wonder, why bother?

Donner,

#42

If that's what going on in your head, I can see why you're frustrated.

Let's see...summarizing what you wrote.

I believe in separation of Church and State. However, if you are a professing Christian the rules change for you. You should be doing what I believe a Christian should do, although I'm not a Christian and have no personal experience to speak from. I just read about it and feel qualified to tell you what you should do as a Christian.

Is that about right. It must be a real hurricane in your head. No wonder you come across so angry.

Donner,

I am not going to repost earlier commemts I made when you aren't reading them or just not understanding them. I don't care if you agree. However, you don't want me to explain my posts or clarify anything I write.

You're just repeating yourself and I'm not going to. I put time into writing them.

If you reply to my posts with just more insults or tunnel vision, don't expect any sort of response from me.

I won't see you.

From another angle, I do not agree that it is good or right or required as a Christian to enable people to the degree liberals are wanting.

It's not just the abuse of scripture I don't agree with.

I also disagree with liberals and how they think people should be pampered and enabled to waste their potential.

It is Biblical that people should be held accountable for themselves and their own welfare.

Using the Bible the way this video is saying is making people look to the government for guidance and survival instead of a personal relationship with God and becoming self reliant.

We've seen what decades of enabling has done to the economy and society.

It's not the Scripture that's the problem.

It's the dishonesty behind how it's being used to manipulate people for secular reasons regardless how compassionate it sounds.

Donner,

Just curious. Are you saved?

Where are you coming from in all this?

Are you a believer speaking from faith and a personal walk with God, or someone outside the faith trying to use Scripture as a weapon when it suits your needs?

Redial,

I'm waiting on my wife.

It's sort of ironic the way Christian preachers shame their congregation, in the same breath as teaching forgiveness.

Fearing God is Biblical but burdening people with shame, when the heart of Christianity is shaking off the past and being reborn, is contradictory.

What makes it worse is they are doing it for secular goals like political power or a church meeting a budget.

Donner,

"Which part do you disagree with exactly?"

I'm opposed to anyone, left or right, using Bible verses to push a political agenda.

You're fine with the guy in this video doing it, but if a conservative politician started quoting scripture to his constituents, you'd probably be outraged.

It's not the message I object to. It's the manipulation.

If he took off the white collar and spoke as just another citizen, no problem. But when someone invokes religious authority to promote a political agenda, that's crossing a line.

I took offense of Pastors who use shame to promote tithing, even though its Biblical, and I take offense of the man in this video doing the same.

I have nothing else to add.

Donner,

"Which part do you disagree with exactly?"

I explained that already.

It seems like you didn't read what I wrote or didn't comprehend my meaning.

a full day of stuff planned...

adios.

Donner,

"If the Christians ruled this nation we would definitely NOT be as free as we are."

I think that was understood from the beginning of America by men who knew history and were aware of how power had been abused in the name of religion.

For centuries there have been people who distort Christianity for financial gain and power. Even the early churches had similar problems.

That's not a reflection of Jesus or His message. It's a reflection of human nature and the failure of those who twist His message for their own agenda.

Sort of like the man in this video.

Doc,

Many cultures developed systems specifically designed to preserve information with accuracy. Native American tribes and other indigenous groups passed down complex genealogies, migration paths, and historical events often with surprising consistency. Their oral traditions are considered legitimate sources of historical information when used alongside other evidence. I'll admit, the word "vivid" may have been overstated.

I'm no expert on that subject, but I only used it as a relatable example for Laura.

As for Paul, he knew people who had personally traveled with Jesus extensively, so his testimony carries a great deal of weight. Many books of the New Testament were written within a generation of the events and were preserved to give future believers both an understanding of Jesus and a foundation for Christian faith.

Now, back to this thread and the video.

The man in the video said the things we're called to sacrifice such as money, pride, comfort are "all for the benefit of the marginalized."
That might sound noble on the surface, but it misrepresents the heart of Scripture.

Jesus didn't call us to surrender everything so that one group could gain. He called us to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him. The purpose of sacrifice is obedience and worship and not political or ideological activism.

Honestly, the man in the video reminds me of certain pastors I've seen who pressure their congregations into tithing using guilt and shame. The language is different, but the tactic is the same.

Yes, Christians are called to love their neighbor, care for the poor, and show mercy but those actions flow from a changed heart, and not from pressure to follow a political narrative dressed up as compassion. We are to follow Christ.

What this man is promoting isn't biblical sacrifice. It's a sanctified version of wealth redistribution wrapped in religious language.

It actually reminds me of something I personally witnessed years ago. I had a job demonstrating a product, and one day I ended up at an elementary school affiliated with Jerry Falwell. A teacher there showed me a memo requiring employees to give 10% of their paychecks to Falwell's church. That was the moment my impression of him changed. Tithing is biblical, but coercion like that is misguided.

And so is the message in this video.

Laura,

"First of all, the Apostle Paul didn't know Christ."

You talk about Native Americans.

You're aware they passed down stories with vivid accuracy across generations using oral traditions, without written language. It was a cornerstone of their culture.

So why do you doubt that Paul, who lived in the same era as Christ and was surrounded by firsthand witnesses, couldn't understand and faithfully teach His message?

It's true that Paul could not have known Jesus in a physical sense, but Paul knew Jesus through direct revelation and his teachings were affirmed by people who knew Jesus personally, including apostles who had walked with Him during His ministry.

Paul wrote many letters to growing churches preaching the message of Jesus Christ and dealing with some issues facing the new churches and conflicts members were having with each other. The churches copied the letters and shared them with other churches. These letters became part of the New Testament in the bible.

Let's not act like truth only counts if it comes directly from the original messenger.

Laura,

And this "priest" seems rather oblivious to what America actually represents under the Constitution,

A nation that protects religious freedom, not one that enforces religious doctrine through government policy.

(and spare me the whataboutism)

Laura,

Did you see a recent post of mine? I'll repost it here...

A lot of people believe Christianity is about forcing the government to take money from working people and give it to those who've chosen a lifestyle of dependence.
But in one of Paul's New Testament letters to the church in Thessalonica, Paul addressed believers who were refusing to work and relying on others to support them.
Paul's words were clear. He wrote, "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)
That's not just a suggestion.
It's Christian teaching, written by Paul, who shaped much of the New ersonal Testament.

End--

Don't assume I personally agree with everything in this bill because I don't. My point here is Christianity is about freedom and personal responsibility and not being shackled to the government for survival all your life.

Laura,

"He's spot on about everything that he said. You can't rebut anything that he said, BillJohnson."

Actually, I did rebut it.

He said, "America is not a Christian nation," then spent ten minutes preaching like it should be while shaming Christians who don't support his political agenda.

That wasn't theology. It was political proselytizing pretending to be the Gospel.

You're free to believe that. Just don't pretend you speak with divine authority on what Christianity demands.

Laura,

I actually think he nailed it right at the start.

His first sentence was, "America is not a Christian nation."

Then, he spent the rest of the video building an argument that America should be, and shaming Christians who don't agree with him.

Really?

If we're going to turn America into a Christian nation, you don't get to cherry pick which parts of Christianity apply. You either take the whole thing, cross and all, or admit you're just using Christianity to push a political agenda.

Honestly, he should've just stopped after the first sentence.

It was the only honest thing he said, before trying to gaslight Christians into doubting their faith.

Mad,

You guys understand the new budget better than me.

My original post was about historical tariffs numbers I've found, just about this year, since January.

I'm more of "historical" numbers kind of person, than "projected" numbers that I take with a grain of salt.

Lamp,

The increase in tariff revenue wasn't intended to offset a $3 trillion projection over 10 years.

Lamp,

I looked at what total tariff expense for previous years was and Yales estimate for this year doesn't appear "reasonable"

Jp Morgan estimated additional tariff expense since Jan this year 82 billion.

Yale est 300b additional tariff exp which is ridiculous for same period.

Same period estimated additional tariff revenue 75 to 95 billion

Lamp,

82 expense offsets the estimated 75 to 95 range in revenue

Lamp,

Of course Yale will estimate high. Of course. Why stop at 300b..why not say 600b?

Lamp,

300 is Yale's est of additional tariff cost for this year. That think tank of liberals is way higher than jp Morgan est of 82..

When you look back at est tariffs cost over last few years, the 82 is more believable.