FTA:

Martyrs sacralize violence. They are used to turn the moral order upside down. Depravity becomes morality. Atrocities become heroism. Crime becomes justice. Hate becomes virtue ... Murder becomes good. War is the final aesthetic. This is what is coming.

It is interesting to note when Kirk made his famous 2nd amendment statement, emphasis mine:

"Later in this speech in Utah in 2023, Charlie Kirk gave his now-famous quote: "I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other god-given rights." The it in that is worth it here is gun deaths, of which there were 46,728 in 2023. These remarks came in the aftermath of one of our nation's many many many school shootings, this one at The Covenant School in Nashville Tennessee, which had happened about a week prior [where 3 children and 3 adults where killed]."

"Charlie Kirk and his karma:"

And by that I mean, there he is among the other gun death victims so far this year, all the dead, himself included, he deemed part of the prude, rational deal America makes to have unfettered 2nd amendment rights:

"I think it's worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Charlie Kirk and his karma:

Krassensteins
@krassenstein.bsky.social

The Charlie Kirk assassination is that little dot on the map of gun deaths in 2025.

Send me one from his "prove me wrong!". This is just talk radio.
Posted by oneironaut

Just talk radio? Didn't he spend 2 hours a day on talk radio? He reached more people on talk radio than on his prove me wrong tours.

FTA:

You know who I feel bad for? The kids. Two of them. Perfectly innocent of all this.

They were victims of a school shooting in Colorado, in one of our nation's many, many, many school shootings, a subset of our nation's many many many mass shootings, a subset of our nation's many many many gun deaths. The two victims are in critical condition. The shooter, a young white man who had been "radicalized through an extremist network," killed himself. Many such cases.

Which kids did you think I meant?

Oh, also on the exact same day as the kids were shot by a radicalized white supremacist, Charlie Kirk was murdered in Orem, Utah. This was also a school shooting. Like I said, they are extremely common. I also feel bad for Kirk's kids, for what it is worth, though I think everyone else already has those bases thoroughly covered. Nevertheless I feel compelled to mention it, because if I don't, then it will be assumed by many that this must mean I am very glad that they watched their father Charlie Kirk be murdered horribly by a gun, as Charlie Kirk warned us might be necessary.

For the record, I am not glad about that.

"He respected your choice in as much as a religion could, never asking you to change, and loved you regardless, hoped you'd change."

Uh-huh:

Charlie Kirk in his own words:

I hadn't seen this. Kirk, the moderate free speech guy who did politics the right way per some liberals (!), called for Biden to be executed.

Meanwhile Joe Biden put out a very strong statement condemning Kirk's killing.

Only people I have seen really denigrate him were people that didn't listen to him directly, but seemed to take him out of context.
He respected your choice in as much as a religion could, never asking you to change, and loved you regardless, hoped you'd change.
He wasn't intolerant, he would still talk to you, treat you with more respect than you gave him(watch some of the videos).
Isn't this what us Liberals espouse? Tolerance? This is what I thought being a Liberal meant.
The "dancing on his grave" is really unAmerican, to call yourself an American and do that is just not understanding its meaning.
#116 | Posted by oneironat

If you really want to know what the responsible left is saying about Kirk and why, here you go:

Charlie Kirk Didn't Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn't Either.

Here;s another link that has the complete text of the article cited in part above. Sorry should have just posted this one:

Claire Willett

reposting with alt text because this feels incredibly significant. the right-wing disinfo machine means a lot of the people grieving Charlie Kirk never heard any of the things he said that would have tarnished his brand as Guy Who Just Wants to Have Dialogue Across the Aisle

Only people I have seen really denigrate him were people that didn't listen to him directly, but seemed to take him out of context.
He respected your choice in as much as a religion could, never asking you to change, and loved you regardless, hoped you'd change.
He wasn't intolerant, he would still talk to you, treat you with more respect than you gave him(watch some of the videos).
Isn't this what us Liberals espouse? Tolerance? This is what I thought being a Liberal meant.
The "dancing on his grave" is really unAmerican, to call yourself an American and do that is just not understanding its meaning.
#116 | Posted by oneironat

For those of you who will follow a Bluesky link:

Sherrilyn Ifill
@sifill.bsky.social

This may explain why there's an aggressive response to people who merely post Kirk's own words. It threatens the existence of the alternate Kirk--the motivational speaker that had been marketed to young kids and white Christian groups through selective quotation & clips.

Did the kid himself admit it?
#179 | Posted by jpw

Not that I'm aware of. There was just a photo of him on his mom's fb dressed up as Pepe one Halloween when he was a teen. She made a comment something like Tyler says he's dressed as a meme. Personally, I don't think he was a groyper, but he does seem to have been aware of the Pepe meme. Did he embrace the philosopy behind the meme? Who knows?

*Believe that some deaths are worth it to maintian unrestricted 2nd amendment rights, become one of those deaths. That's karma.

Suggesting someone's murder is a "consequence"of their beliefs, or speech is to accept assassination as a legitimate tool of politics.
At that point no one is safe, because every opinion is offensive to someone.
Americans used to know this. But today it seems like too many have given up on the idea of American and its values.
#170 | Posted by oneironaut

No, you are wrong in your understanding how karma works. Your karma is based on your words and acitons. Not someone else's words or actions. Or there interpretation of your words and actions. That's the beauty of karma. It's considered a law of nature like the law of gravity. What goes up, most come down. You reap what you sow. Live by the sword die by the sword. Charlie Kirk's death, karmically, is the result of Charlie Kirk's beliefs. Believe it some deaths are worth it to maintian unrestricted 2nd amendment rights, become one of those deaths.

"Yes, those kinds of comments are appalling, but they were from a minority of people."
You called it karma gal_karma!
#102 | Posted by oneironaut

I did. I still do.I'm using karma in the non-religious sense. As in what goes around, comes around. He preached unfettered 2nd amendment rights, proclaiming that some deaths as a result were an acceptable cost to pay to protect those rights. And then he was gunned down and became a prime example of what he espoused. To me that's karma in action, and I don't understand why people are being for fired saying that, provided that is all they said.

"I think it's worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
" Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk's conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023

We had the Scalise shooting which was intended to be a massacre. 2 attempts on Trump. Firebombing of Jewish protestors. Kavanaugh. 2 Israeli staffers. The CEO of United Health. Family Research Council attack, Charlie Kirk ... .

A career criminal, George Floyd, gets killed and the response was 6 months of rioting with more than a dozen killed, over 1500 police officers injured, livelihoods lost and $2 billion in property damage.

You are conveniently forgetting January 6 and the shooting of state lawmakers in MN.

Until lefties rediscover their own humanity they have no business anywhere near the levers of power and this most recent killing may have lit a powder keg of people jumping into the political fray to get out there and bury these cretins politically.

The lack of introspection combined with zealous self-righteousness is astonishing.

Let's focus on Kirk, the response by some on the left by people with an actual microphone and audience has been appalling. On social media it's been worse. Essentially, "He got what he deserved. Now, who's next?!?"

Yes, those kinds of comments are appalling, but they were from a minority of people. And once again you act like the right is above that sort of thing when Democrats get assaulted or killed, which of course is BS:

Among public figures who were not on the site, it seemed to become a conventional wisdom that BlueSky was full of people celebrating Kirk's death, the modern day equivalent of the thousands of Muslims that Trump falsely claimed celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey. People wanted them to exist so badly, they were willing to invent them. While the nominal centrist Chatterton Williams was happy to share the false claim, it was, bizarrely, the erstwhile right-wing commentator Richard Hanania who debunked it.

Hanania explained the right-wing strategy of finding obscure accounts of leftists who said terrible things --of course plenty will exist in a very online world--and then mischaracterizing them as if they were broadly representative. There was no Democrat of note who, for example, responded the way that Senator Mike Lee did after the murder of a Minnesota Democratic politician this summer, with a mocking post that pinned the blame on the Democratic Governor.

So Republicans just started doing in 2020 what Democrats were doing since the 80s
Is that your point?
#96 | Posted by oneironaut

I don't remember it being the general consensus among Democrats in the 1980s that Reagan was ------. Link?

English 101 "killed" is by accident, and "murdered" is on purpose.
Whats your definition?
#92 | Posted by oneironaut

No, killed doesn't mean by accident. Not everyone who is killed is murdered, but everyone who is murdered is killed.

As I look at the history of American politics, since Reagan every Republican has been called Hitler.
You my friend are in fantasyland thinking you'd be nicer to a different President.
idk why Lumpers resort to the Hitler attack everytime, then complain about political violence.
#63 | Posted by oneironaut

JD Vance once speculated that Trump was American's ------:

He also said that the Democrats killed in MN was different too, but again didn't explain why.

Did you see january 6?
#37 | Posted by truthhurts

I mentioned that to my relative, but he said 1/6 was different. When I asked why/in what way, he didn't respond.

"And I bet Gal, your relative probably doesn't care about gay folk or feminists, but I bet he doesn't want it taught to children."

He doesn't want them to teach his children, true, but they are part of the liberal left he will no longer tolerate and wants destroyed.

Amazing again gal. The only ones I see doing violence is the left.
#33 | Posted by boaz

That's because you either aren't looking or are ignoring what doesn't fit into your preferred narrative:

"They sound like a great individual. Trustworthy. God fearing."

If you agree with him and are a RWinger too, then, yes. If not, then not so much.

Why? Because they dont accept just anything that violates their convictions?
#29 | Posted by boaz

And because he wants to impose his beliefs/convictions on everyone else, on the whole country, and seems willing to do so potentially through violence.

Why? Because they dont accept just anything that violates their convictions?
Posted by boaz

No, because he think all liberals, Democrats, left-leaning people are evil, and that he and all folks on the right are right/righteous/soldiers in God's army and can do no wrong.