I can't read the article, but regardless of law, 16"17-year-old humans still count as minors, correct? So they would need the permission of their parents to work?

"I don't see how that is germane to the discussion."

Of course you don't.

Because you se earned income as being community property.

Other than your own earned income, of course. You worked hard for that.

"I am just praying my health insurance covers repeated bite wounds to the ankle."

You should just be happy if you have health insurance, dude.

You don't seem the type to think they should have any responsibility for looking after your own healthcare.

That's the job of the 1%, right? To make sure you have healthcare?

"The impediment to any US VAT lies with the reality that we don't have socialized health insurance removing the trillions of non-productive dollars sucked up by middlemen that don't deliver a single tangible benefit to healthcare delivery nor service provision."

How is that an impediment?

If there were a VAT, the US could implement a plethora of social programs. Just like much of Europe has.

"Newsflash: Poor people pay taxes too, so even they are invisibly impacted by our imbalanced system."

Yeah. Not really. And nothing like what the "poor" pay in Europe,

"In 2018 the lowest fifth of earners on average paid no net federal taxes at all. The top 1% paid a total rate (ie, after all deductions) of 30%, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Include state and local levies, and high earners face a marginal tax rate on each extra dollar they take home"the rate that matters for work incentives"which is middling by rich-country standards. Tax refunds for poor families are exceptionally generous. In 2019 a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay faced total net labour taxes of only 10%, according to analysis by the oecd, a club of mostly rich countries. In egalitarian Sweden the rate was nearly 33%."

#111

Is it your opinion that Europe is regressive when it comes to taxation?

"So is the metric system. It's unrelated."

Does the metric system generate tax revenue?

"At least nobody ever accused you of being a fiscal conservative!"

Heh.

You don't really know me...but being a fiscal conservative with one's own discretionary income and with taxpayer dollars are two very, very different things.

I'll waste my money all day long. Because it's mine. I'm less OK with wasting taxpayer dollars...and I don't pay taxes really, FWIW.

That said, I think I have an understanding that you don't view personal income as being personal income, but rather something that it collectively earned and should be collectively distributed.

"Which is the precise reason the U.S. will NEVER adopt one. VATs are the most regressive taxes on the planet because those with the least wealth and income spend all or almost all of their income on goods and services - which means the poorest would be paying the highest percentage of their wealth/income in taxes just so the wealthier can escape meaningful taxation on all the revenue and wealth their investments generate."

So...Europe is regressive?

VATs in Europe run from around 15% to 25%

Is it your position that the US needs to be less like Europe?

"More Health Systems Likely to Drop Out of Medicare Advantage, Analyst Predicts"

More health systems are going to be opting out of Medicare Advantage (MA) plans, George Hill, a managing director at Deutsche Bank in Boston, predicted Monday at a "Wall Street Comes to Washington" webinar hosted by the Brookings Institution.

"Saying "Let the States decide" when it comes to fundamental rights such as sovereignty over one's own body is like saying 'let's disband the Union and give the Confederacy another chance'."

During COVD, it was the states that were protecting sovereignty over one's own body.

...or was that totally different?

"How can anti abortionists genuinely support a regime where baby murder is sometimes 100% legal? They can't. They are lying."

They can if they believe in the constitution.

I'm not pro-abortion, but I certainly think it should be legal. People don't get abortions for the fun of it.

But unlike many things, abortion isn't protected in the constitution. If the intent is to make abortion legal nationwide permanently, the answer it to add another amendment to the constitution.

"How often have you seen a bill implemented as it was originally written? Stop acting as if that's even likely."

I think it is very unlikely. What is disturbing is the number of people who would support a Berniecare bill.

Those people have little room to complain about Trump.

"You have suggested that some sort of public healthcare could be funded by a VAT. I don't see that."

Why not?

VATs are a standard in every modern country but the US. It's also a tax that is almost impossible to avoid if you want to buy consumer goods.

"Not only does MB NOT care if people go bankrupt obtaining healthcare, he'd also like to see them give the credit card companies another 2-3 percent cut. And that's just on the transaction. It doesn't even count the interest on the unpaid balance."

Seriously? I prefer to pay my doctor bills with cards. They're typically large bills, which means lots of instant points for me.

In fact, the one I use for most of my medical bills gives me 2.5% back.

"At this point, M4A is only a bill. Before it ever becomes law, I'm certain "Berniecare" would be revised substantially. Until "Berniecare" is actually set into law, it's unfair to say that you're certain you would lose your private insurance."

I'm not much of a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that Berniecare would be deemed unconstitutional, as it removes the right of patient choice in healthcare, as well as doctor choice. Buying healthcare outside of what was provided by government would be like trying to buy an F-22. YOu may have the money, LockMart might be willing to sell, but government policy would prohibit the sale.

And if you think about Bernie and where he is coming from, this is necessary. If Egalitarianism is your goal, then the healthcare available to the poorest USan is the same healthcare provided to the richest. If doctors are given a choice on which patients they can pick, they will choose the ones that pay the most first. That happens now in the US. It happens in the UK with the NHS. The only way to create an egalitarian healthcare system is to create a system where choice isn't a choice.

"M4A will probably never become the law of the land. But you seem to make your entire argument based upon an idea that it's the only option."

God no. Berniecare is only one option, and compared to other countries, incredibly extreme. Because it would prohibit an individual from getting healthcare outside of the government system. It would also prohibit doctors from operating out of the government system.

I live in Europe. It seems like this continent has figured out how to crack the nut without immediately going high and right.

"Even if you are correct about M4A ("Berniecare"), which you are not, why do you believe a transition to M4A is the only choice?"

Because that is how the Bernie bill is written. If implemented, it would provide a transition period over which every USan would be moved from whatever private healthcare plan they had onto Berniecare. No exceptions. Those who did not have health insurance would be automatically enrolled. No exceptions.

Healthcare plans would still be available for services that Berniecare did not provide, such as cosmetic surgery or other procedures that were not medically necessary.

I get care from the providers. The insurance company just reimburses me for what I paid.

Does 'Medicare for All' end private insurance?

"Sanders has said he envisions these remaining plans covering a handful of items like cosmetic surgery that are left out of Medicare. For everything else, the only option is Medicare."

"If there are fewer options, then the government plan does not provide insurance coverage for all of the medical care."

I'm going to the doctor on Monday about my shoulder. Torn rotator cuff. I chose the doctor, and I chose the time.

If I had gone through the military system, I could have still seen a doctor about a torn rotator cuff, I would have just had fewer options to choose from, both in terms of doctors, and times.

If I were still on active duty, I'd have zero choice of doctor or time.

"That is ABSOLUTELY NOT what it states. You're COMPLETELY MISREPRESENTING the truth. It merely forbids them from offering (or pretending to offer) exact copies of M4A. Your use of "any service" could not be more off the mark."

If I have a broken leg, I cannot use private insurance to get it fixed. I can only use Berniecare.

If I need a hip replacement, I cannot use private insurance to get a hip replacement. That would be illegal.

If I need treatment for cancer, I cannot get that treatment unless it is not offered by Berniecare. So maybe homeopathic treatments would be available.

What Berniecare would do is ban duplicate coverage. If Berniecare covered the service or procedure, Berniecare would be your only option to get that care if you wanted to get treated in the US.

"To get things paid for, that aren't paid for on the public plan. It's why you have Cigna and also have a publicly paid plan."

100% incorrect.

In the UK, supplemental health insurance gets you the same care, just faster and at higher quality. Instead of waiting months to see a specialist, you wait days or weeks. Instead of recovering in a hospital bay, you get your own room.

That sort of thing.

"To get things paid for, that aren't paid for on the public plan. It's why you have Cigna and also have a publicly paid plan."

The medical care I qualify for under the government plan is still medical care. I would just have to wait longer to get it and there would be fewer options.

My plan now costs ~$700 per month. Up from $600. Believe me, when I first got hired I asked my co-workers if it was worth it. They all said definitely. So far, they have shown themselves to have been correct.

"Health insurance doesn't offer services. Health insurance offers to pay for services."

So, it's just a less draconian, more voluntary variant of Berniecare.

#65

And if this were a public system, how would it be different?

You seem to think that by nationalizing healthcare, all these things go away. Real-world circumstances suggest otherwise.

Why do you think people purchase supplemental healthcare in places like the UK, where everyone has a public plan to start with?