"America will never have a European-style welfare state without a VAT

The federal government has some scope to raise more money from high earners. But the idea that the main problem with the existing system that tax rates are too flat is wrong. In 2018 the lowest fifth of earners on average paid no net federal taxes at all. The top 1% paid a total rate (ie, after all deductions) of 30%, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Include state and local levies, and high earners face a marginal tax rate on each extra dollar they take home"the rate that matters for work incentives"which is middling by rich-country standards. Tax refunds for poor families are exceptionally generous. In 2019 a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay faced total net labour taxes of only 10%, according to analysis by the OECD, a club of mostly rich countries. In egalitarian Sweden the rate was nearly 33%."

Can a country get too rich?

"NORWAY'S TRIBUTE to Edvard Munch, Scandinavia's most famous painter, is an impressive 13-storey slab of recycled aluminium and glass built on the harbour front in Oslo. Completed in 2021 at a cost of $350m, it was even more impressively late (by a decade) and over budget (by a scream-worthy $200m). Looming above thick mist blanketing the sea on a winter's afternoon, the museum encapsulates the country that paid for it: sophisticated and so loaded that money is no object.

Norwegian oil has built an economy that is the envy of other rich countries, not to mention poor ones. GDP per person is a cool $90,000, behind only city-states, tax havens and Switzerland. Since 1991 the government has amassed a sovereign-wealth fund worth $2.2trn, or $400,000 for every one of Norway's 5.6m people. Proceeds sustain one of the world's most generous welfare states."

"Economic disparity makes socialism popular."

Rich people bitching about richer people...

"So why does your party cut taxes for the super rich and make it harder for the government to operate?"

So why does your party want to exclude most of the population from having to pay taxes?

The bottom 50% of income earners have an average tax rate of 3.73%, and cover 3.26% of the total federal income tax burden.

It seems to me that they are not paying their fair share, considering that the top 50% of income earners is paying for 96.24% of the burden.

"That one is easy. Those who support this DSA nonsense expect the rich people to pay for everything."

Yep. That's what I think to.

And at one point, one of more progressive posters on this site said they would not be in favor of expanded government programs if it meant poor people paying more in taxes. Which leads me to believe they are not so much concerned about helping the poors as much as they are harming the richies.

"Of course, billionaires would werk against it, and myopic libertarians who think that sidewalks are communism, drivers licences are fascism, and the Invisible Hand of the Market is the Holy Grail, would still be living in their manly self-built forts."

Why would the billionaires care? I mean, everyone would care, but adopting a Nordic model would affect lower income earners in the US the most.

Frankly, I'm a fan of the European model. And one of the most, if not the most successful characteristic of Norway is its Sovereign Wealth Fund, which has accumulated just around $200k for each Norwegian citizen. Mostly by investing in US companies.

Thanks, Capitalism.

"Would that even be possible? Wouldn't every state have to agree with it?"

I don't think so. Do the states have a say in federal tax policy right now? Other than through the elected representatives?

#60

I would ask you if USans are willing to put their money where their mouth is and accept higher taxes for expanded government services. I don't know the answer.

Soo...ask the question if the US would be willing to accept up to a 25% VAT to match European funding mechanisms. When it comes to what most would refer to as "Socialism," that's where it starts.

I'd be in favor. I don't think many USans would be.

#52

Norway is importing workers from East Africa to do unskilled labor. It's a big country with lots of resources, a lot of land, and a small population. They can't afford to not allow immigration.

#50

Eerily enough, I was just about to post that. Although the DSA platform looks more similar to communism than socialism.

It's basically the Communist Manifesto in different packaging.

"But that does not explain the extensive use of the word "socialism" by the GOP in a denigrating manner."

Socialism is an economic system where the workers own the means of production. I don't know of anyone calling themselves a "socialist" would support this.

I think there is a backroom agreement between progressives and conservatives to keep using this term. For conservatives, it is a pejorative. For progressives, it is a badge of honor.

And Europeans think that both sides are ------- crazy when they say Europe is socialist. It's not. Not even close.

"If you're a fat Texan that's raised on crap "bbq" and breakfast tacos, maybe Norway isn't for you."

I don't think any of you would be ready for Norway. Sitz didn't even get it. The weather in Norway is the worst weather I've ever experienced, and I lived eight years in North Dakota. I was working with my NOR counterparts today, who fly home later this evening. Let's just say they spent a lot of time outside, enjoying the bright German sunshine. Because it's going to be a while before they see it again. Until they come to Germany next month.

Trump shouldn't even be concerned about vendors. He should have a competent staff that did it for him. But it's Trump, so competency is hard to come by.

And SOF has always had something akin to carte blanche to buy the ---- they need. It's just the conventional forces that are funneled into buying ------ military.

Hell, even as an aviator we had access to the good stuff.

"Against the head wind of liberal judges it literally take an act of congress for Trump to change vendors. Democrats and their grifters have so entrenched themselves at the trough."

Yeah.

It's the Democrats.

They have Arc'teryx in their pocket.

NORSOCOM partners with them as well, FWIW.

"Attack posters who have achieved real success in life on an anonymous blog every day."

Dude, success is self-defined.

I consider myself to be extremely successful.

I'll never be a millionaire or billionaire, but for me-that's not what defines success.

I'm not really sure why so many people are hung up on money as a measure of success. The only thing I can think of, and it may be unique to me, is that I don't do what normal people do. There are only a handful of us. Maybe for everyone else, money is an indicator of how much other people care about what they do. It's how they validate their importance to society. And by extension, to themselves.

"You have mastered the Art of Saying things that are the Opposite of their actual meaning. And Believing falsities because the Words are present without any spirit behind them. Wake Up -------."

You seem to be conflating Republics with representative governments. They are two different things. Historically, and maybe even today, the vast majority of "Republics" do not follow a model of representative government. Are you familiar with the People's Republic of China? How about the Islamic Republic of Iran?

"It has a king, so no."

There is no king of North Korea...so...no.

"You JUST KNOW you're always right."

I can only say what's right for me.

In my mind, being 20 years old and making $61k per year isn't a bad gig.

"Is The People's Republic of North Korea a Republic?"

Indeed, it is. It is divided into multiple administrative districts. Just like the United States, the Republic of Germany, and previously the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Would you like more examples?

#61

Not sure why it cut off. The average wage of an electrician with less than 2 yrs of experience is $61k.

Good job or bad job?

"Cool anecdote."

I know.

It's just wrong when reality doesn't support the narrative.

"Of course he's in a bubble. He thinks 3 generations of wealth isn't staying power."

Staying in power?

Do elaborate.

First, power and wealth are not inextricably related. Most of the people referenced in this post-you've never heard of them.

Second, if you're in that third generation, you're not staying wealthy. I suppose you could run for office is power was your thing, but that's a totally separate issue that has nothing to do with wealth.

"Nobody actually keeping them down but there's only so many "Good Jobs".

Define a good job?

Is a good job one that pays six figs after six years of college? Or five figs with no college?

Or six figs with no college, because those exist too.

The average wage of an electrician with

#42

You've hit it on the head, m'dude. It's why I half joke that the US is the last Marxist country in the west, due to this idea of "to each according to need, to each according to ability.

Even contemporary socialism would not solve the problem, all other things being equal. A janitor working at Wal-Mart would be making a fraction of what a janitor at Apple was making, simply because Wal-Mart is low-profit, while Apple is very profitable.

"Personal decisions, life decisions determine your lot in life in our nation"

It's absolutely true.

And I don't get the obsession with the rich, those that hate them and those that want to be them-often times the same people.

I'll never be rich. I went to college. I work for other people who are getting rich.

The wealthiest people I know didn't go to college and weren't born rich. That didn't stop them from making millions. Much like the people mentioned in this post.

They did work their asses off though. Like 16 hours a day for a decade, missing holidays and family time, to get to the point they finally reached.