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#25 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-07-06 08:11 PM
Depleting military resources when we have recruitment shortages in defense of a country that isn't part of NATO ...
Who gave you an idea that we are "depleting military resources" instead of building new, better ones? And what do "military resources" have to do with "recruitment shortages"? If Ukraine were a part of NATO, it would not be attacked by Putin, as both Finland and Sweden realized - it was attacked precisely because it wasn't part of NATO and has huge land mass and resources that shouldn't become part of Greater Russian Federation... and eventually will become part of NATO and/or EU.
... while a much bigger danger, China, is sitting back and building up its military and is threatening to invade Taiwan ...
And what do you think we are doing? And what [else / different] do you want to do currently about China... that specifically involves Ukraine? How do you think China would see the US abandoning Ukraine - would it weaken or strengthen their resolve to "invade Taiwan"?
I'm just not seeing any kind of end game except for an endless spigot of resources at a time when we have bigger issues to deal with.
That's been one of the most insincere and lamest arguments for abandoning Ukraine... and/or on the other side, abandoning Israel in their war against Iran/Russia ". We always have other big issues to deal with - Putin's War, combined with Iran's proxy wars against Israel and elsewhere in the Middle East, as well as threats by China are some of the biggest there are at the moment.
You can't possibly be so naive to think that if we abandon [even parts of] Ukraine, who are not asking for much except for weapons, ammo and assistance (apparently same things "mighty" Russia is asking from its benefactors) that our "bigger" issues suddenly become smaller, unless you can specifically point out how abandoning Ukraine (as well as losing any sense of dignity, international reputation and overall security) will solve the supposedly "bigger issues."
If it's just about money, then (with annual $4T+ budget, with $1.5T+ deficit) we surely can cut somewhere on "smaller" issues, like "student loan forgiveness," "trains to nowhere" or other make-work programs, where our military and international strength is not affected, or questioned - that's how you deal with China, Iran and other potential invaders and troublemakers.
I'm not even opposed to supporting Ukraine against this act of pure aggression.
Oh, good. Then how do you suggest we should be "supporting Ukraine against this act of pure aggression"? "Emotional" support? "Trumpy" undisclosed top-secret "24-hour-to-end-the-war-solution"? Pushing Ukraine to accept Putin-Orban-Erdogan-Xi-proposed "ceasefire" aka "peace for our times" plans?
We are fighting a proxy war against a nuclear-armed country
Another old and lame argument that RT, Russia 1 TV propagandists and Russian internet trolls keep using almost daily. Does that mean that we should just give Putin whatever he wants... now... and in the future?
Putin has been warned by China and India that nukes are off the table in Ukraine or his [already limited] support will be cut off, and warned by NATO that his forces in Ukraine and elsewhere will be obliterated in days by conventional forces - so Putin himself actually understands that Ukraine is itself a "proxy" of several nuclear powers, the USA and some European NATO countries.
What is the end game? Do we have a cap?
Seriously? Cap? In a war? War elsewhere that cost us peanuts so far, and already improved our military in so many ways? What is the price of "Cold Peace" if Ukraine loses?
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#17 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-07-21 09:50 PM
This pattern doesn't always hold true...
Was also a case with Dukakis... hence, only "a semblance of a pattern" - circumstances are always different, but the odds are better, or as Hugh Keough used to say:
"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that's the way to bet"
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