#10 Even Sandy Duncan?!

Ha-ha! Nicely done!

Andrea, did your headline originally have Clinton's name in it?

63. I don't know what question you're asking anymore. "Nazis are bad?"? Yes. What in anything above suggests otherwise? That I'm not offended by MAGA hats and Mein Kampf? I'm not offended by Che t-shirts or the Communist Manifesto, either. Doesn't make me a Stalinist. I I thought you were interested in rhetorical strategies.

In the hypothetical above? That it would be hypocritical for this imaginary university to bring to task an imaginary student for wearing a MAGA hat on the premise that it is a couched Nazi message when it's own library carries multiple volumes of the mother lode of actual Nazi messaging.

#58 Well, perhaps not their point of view, but their personal character. I can agree with the premise that "smoking is bad," even if the doctor who tells me that is a smoker himself. In a casual conversation, such as this one, I would point out that the doctor, being a smoker himself, is a hypocrite. It doesn't mean I am using the doctor's hypocrisy to invalidate or discredit the idea that I shouldn't smoke. Perhaps it means I'm just pointing out the fact that the doctor is a hypocrite because it makes the story more interesting, gives it a twist, or makes the doctor sound more "human." I wouldn't use this strategy in an academic exercise. On the DR? Why, it's practically de rigueur for the lot of us!

#55 My conclusion that, in that scenario, the university is hypocritical has no bearing on how I view the original premise. It is an aside that happens to be true, regardless of the validity of the original premise. Whether or not wearing a MAGA hat or having Mein Kampf on the bookshelf is "offensive" is subjective. I don't believe either is offensive, regardless of what others believe. I DO believe that if you find MAGA hats offensive, it defies common sense that you would not then find Mein Kampf offensive. It's completely defensible and reasonable to believe such a person is a hypocrite. Do you not think hypocrisy should be pointed out? Have you never pointed out hypocrisy on this forum?

The DR isn't a rolling RWS100 seminar and we're not writing argumentative essays here for Professor Elbow Patch; we're a bunch of strangers having a series of casual conversations about topics that are often rife with examples of politicians and other public figures behaving as hypocrites.

Any of the rhetorical logical fallacies hinges on the rhetorician's desire to falsify the original premise. I don't reject the premise I shouldn't smoke because it's bad for me just because the doctor is a hypocrite. If I rejected the premise because the doctor is a hypocrite, that would be a logical fallacy.

Pointing out hypocrisy isn't a rhetorical tu quoque fallacy in-and-of-itself unless it is used to discredit the original premise.

My doctor smokes. He tells me I shouldn't smoke because it's bad for me. I agree, but point out he smokes, so he is a hypocrite = Not tu quoque
My doctor smokes. He tells me I shouldn't smoke because it's bad for me. I disagree, pointing out he smokes, so he must be a liar and a hypocrite = tu quoque

#43 Pointing out hypocrisy isn't a tu quoque fallacy, unless the original premise is being rejected as a result. This isn't a tu quoque fallacy. This isn't a tu quoque fallacy:

UNIVERSITY: WEARING A MAGA HAT IS OFFENSIVE (Premise A)
STUDENT: SO IS HAVING HALF A DOZEN COPIES OF MEIN KAMPF ON THE UNIVERSITY BOOKSHELF (Premise B)
ME:I DON'T THINK EITHER OF THEM IS OFFENSIVE, BUT BE CONSISTENT, UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATORS, OTHERWISE YOU LOOK LIKE HYPOCRITES (Conclusion)

I don't reject Premise A because of Premise B. I reject both premises on the grounds that they're both stupid, but my conclusion that in such a scenario the university is clearly, demonstrably hypocritical is sound.

#40 According to SDSU's library database, there are at least five copies of Mein Kampf on the shelves, plus one copy of its "unpublished sequel" (who knew?), in addition to many volumes of critical material about it. UC Berkley's library has even more copies - in several languages.

When I was in the army I got popped for having "communist" material in my locker - a Communist Workers Party newspaper I bought at an anti-apartheid demonstration from a hot Irishy-looking chick in front of the South African embassy in London. I was told I could not be in possession of "communist propaganda." My defense was that our modest post library had a copy of Mein Kampf as a matter of official policy, so nothing in my newspaper ought to be considered objectionable by comparison. I "won" to the extent that one can win such battles in the army, but....

Anyway, it seems hypocritical that relatively ambiguous slogans from students are seen as problematic when universities provide copies of the motherlode of actual Nazi propaganda as a matter of policy:

DD247.H5.

#37

313 cases across 5,300 campus in the span of an academic school year is higher than it should be, but hardly an epidemic. Besides, just about every university and college library across the country has a copy of Mein Kampf gathering dust on its shelves, so unauthorized "It's Okay to Be White" and "MAGA" fliers are hardly razor-edged Nazi propaganda points in comparison to what these institutions officially tolerate as a matter of policy.

Curious that the AP story linked has no actual examples of the 313 incidents cited.

#35 Your question in #29 was in response to my post in #7: "An actual Nazi hasn't spoken on a college campus since George Lincoln Rockwell spoke at Brown in 1966."

Your responses in #33/#35 were non sequitur and willfully obtuse; your examples of (yes) Real Nazis have never spoken at a university, so not germane to my comment.

You don't strike me as the kind of unhinged loon who thinks Ben Shapiro or Ann Coulter are actual Nazis. You're not, are you?

#33 What universities did they speak at?

#7, Well, there apparently wasn't a smirking white, Catholic schoolboy in the vicinity to take the blame, so....

#29 You know, real Nazis. You've only ever seen them on TV.

#7 An actual Nazi hasn't spoken on a college campus since George Lincoln Rockwell spoke at Brown in 1966.

#7 I'm just hoping the prices of avocados and maple syrup drop.

#1

PER MCCLATCHY DC:

In her announcement of the USMCA trade agreement on December 10, 2019, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, "There is no question of course that this trade agreement is much better than NAFTA."

The NYP: "Sources said David Anderson, who committed the deadly Tuesday attack with a woman identified as Francine Graham, was a one-time follower of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement and made the hateful postings on his social media page."

From the NYP: "Sources said David Anderson, who committed the deadly Tuesday attack with a woman identified as Francine Graham, was a one-time follower of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement and made the hateful postings on his social media page."