"Neither did you. There's never been a socialist nation. A stateless, classless society where workers fully own the means of production has never existed. You're really stupid."

Maybe I'm stupid..

But how about my best friend, who grew up in the People's Socialist Republic of Albania?

I don't know that you would want to discuss the virtues of "socialism" with someone who lived under it. Especially if that someone landed working with JSOC hunting Serbian war criminals and made his bones that way.

Is your name Donny?

I think you're seriously out of your element.

#23

I have to wonder if this isn't because Gen Z did not exist in a world where socialism was prevalent. Where the horrors of socialism weren't front and center on a daily basis. Where the difference in standard of living between the socialist countries and the capitalist countries wasn't easily recognized.

"Nobody can stomach being labeled soft on defense or soft on crime."

I have to disagree.

The Trump regime has led the US to the greatest strategic military defeat in the history of the US. Ever. Not kidding. Crime? Maybe. But defense? That is something I fear we are no longer capable of. And that's what I do for a living.

"Take a tax free loan, just like how they pay for groceries."

But to be clear, unlike Europe, it would be only the rich in the US covering the tax burden, correct.

Low and middle-class households would see no increase in taxes.

"If it meant not having any black people around, probably."

Boom!

Throw down the race card when you know the economics card is going to be a bust.

Appeal to emotion when rationalism no longer works.

"My share of the debt should be in proportion youy share of America's aggregate wealth."

Based on what, exactly?

Your opinion?

The rich should pay. The poor shouldn't?

Not very western European of you.

Right now, to pay of the national debt, each USan would need to write a check for ~117K.

The DSA is mostly theatrics. Their positions, especially when it comes to the economy, are not grounded in reality.

"The other half is revenue; something conservatives don't want to discuss!"

Do progressives?

Consider Finland. A household in Finland making 53K EUR ($62K) per year would have a tax rate of 34%. The tax rate for someone earning that same income in Boise Idaho, would be 12%.

Do you think someone living in Boise would be game for seeing their annual tax obligation nearly triple? And that's ignoring the fact that Finland also has a value-added tax.

#183

Many businesses in Germany are still cash-only. It allows them to avoid taxes.

"Trump wants to Break the Government and make it Function only for the Wealthy, Reverse Robin Hood. Only the Morbidly Rich deserve anything. He shows this everyday."

Mah dude,

I think you're mistaken if Trump only supports the wealthy. Trump couldn't give a ---- about them anymore than he cares about anyone else.

Trump is in this for Trump.

And to be fair, Trump did adopt what would have been considered a far-left populist model when it came to the economy. He's more Huey Long than Ronald Reagan.

"Maybe thats because the rich have sucked all the wealth out of society and the poor are bankrupted by illness."

They sucked it all away, did they.

Walk me through that if you have a moment.

"Dishonest. You're only talking about INCOME TAX. State, property, etc etc are still paid by the poor. There's taxation everywhere."

Yup.

especially in Scandia.

If you think they don't pay taxes, think again. If you're advocating for a system where the rich pay for everything...you'll need to invent something new.

Good luck.

#71

Sorry, Bruh.

Trump out populists anyone on the left.

You know they're pissed about that.

"But let's bring this back to the subject......democrats think they understand socialism. republicans think they understand it as well."

It's a conspiracy.

The Repubs present Europe as being socialist because of the higher taxes. The progressives present Europe as being socialist because if it's expanded social programs.

The Repubs are winning this fight, if there could be a winner. The Repubs don't seem to care about expanding social programs. The progressives do. But only if it is at the expense of high income earners, and lower income earners are able to avoid taxation.

Like I said, conspiracy. It works for both sides.

"Is someone going to roll back free trade? nope"

Ummm...Trump?

Tariffs?

"But none of it matters. Running for office on a DSA platform is fine"

Is it?

I think of myself as fairly open minded, but check out this site:

I haven't actually decided if I want to take the plunge or not. Right now my job is more of a jobby.

"Is that why corporate profits are at an all time high, because labor is so cheap?"

My labor isn't cheap? At least I don't think so.

Is yours?

I was actually just filling out a job application. Looking for $175K per year.

Do you think I should go higher, or am I to cheap?

"And people in the US have unfortunately recently decided to listen to rwing white nationalist authoritarian leaders who are fearmongers on race and ethnicity, hired buy Oligarchs to frighten them into submission."

So...let's pull the thread on that. Because I'm not sure what "rwing white nationalist authoritarian leaders who are fearmongers on race and ethnicity, hired buy Oligarchs to frighten them into submission." you might be referring to. And what their agenda is. Explaining that would better help me understand your position, particularly in a global context.

"The problems are the republicans. The rest of us would thrive without them dragging us down."

Hmm. Should I assume you are advocating government restrictions on the Republican party?

Any other parties you think should be restricted?

"The opportunity to join the people who vote themselves the Happiest People in the World year after year after year... should at least be provided to the American people who just might decide that healthcare, edumacation (Bushism), actually livable, non-cohesive workplaces, family time, long vacations, and less corruption in their government is worth PAYING LESS than they are now while not having those things."

I think there are dozens of models that the US could look at for inspiration. From my vantage point, there don't seem to be many people in the US interested in going that direction.

"And VATs are offset by Benefits like year long+ birth holidays for parents, 6 week vacations, universal healthcare and education, and a dozen others."

I don't disagree. Like I've said before, I almost took a job up there. I wouldn't have been considering it if I thought my quality of life was going to deteriorate because of the move. Although the weather there should be a consideration.

I'm just not sure most Americans would be on board with a 25% VAT and 30% income taxes.

"And VATs are offset by Benefits like year long+ birth holidays for parents, 6 week vacations, universal healthcare and education, and a dozen others."

I don't disagree. Like I've said before, I almost took a job up there. I wouldn't have been considering it if I thought my quality of life was going to deteriorate because of the move. Although the weather there should be a consideration.

I'm just not sure most Americans would be on board with a 25% VAT and 30% income taxes.

"Yes, by law because they have to."

Because they are ruled by dictators?

Do you think the Scandic economic models would work without the support of the voters?

"When corporations paid a living wage in this country, that wouldn't have been a problem... and it wouldn't be a problem now if corporations are required to provide a living wage the kind of benefits they have in Nordic countries."

In terms of median household income, the US comes in 5th. Well above most European countries. Which means that the US working population is better postured to accept a VAT and higher taxes than Finland or Sweden. Norway is an outlier due to their SWF. But Norway is also the most expensive country I've ever been to.

I go to Norway a lot. When I'm there, it's Pizza and Hot Dogs. A beer is $15 at a restaurant. $5 at the grocery store. And that's the cheap stuff. I needed a notebook the last time I was up there. It was going to cost me $22.