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#81 | Posted by ScottS
LOL, nope!
First, your specific claim about murder rates lacks credible sourcing.
The assertion that "rich Blacks commit murder at 2x+ the rate of poor Whites contradicts established data. The most comprehensive studies (e.g., U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics) show:
- Homicide offending correlates most strongly with neighborhood disadvantage, not race or individual income.
- When controlling for neighborhood conditions (e.g., poverty density, under-resourced schools, policing patterns), racial disparities in violent crime rates sharply decrease or vanish.
- No peer-reviewed study supports your exact claim. The closest data (FBI SHR) shows homicide rates are driven by community-level factors, not individual wealth.
Second, you're ignoring how systemic racism shapes "wealth" for Black Americans:
- "Rich" equal opportunity: High-income Black families often live in disadvantaged neighborhoods due to housing discrimination (e.g., racial steering, mortgage redlining). A Black household earning $100k lives in a neighborhood with higher poverty rates than a White household earning $30k ([Stanford study, 2020](inequality.stanford.edu)).
- Exposure to violence: Economic status doesn't override racialized policing or environmental risk. High-income Black youth face disproportionate police surveillance and violence exposure compared to low-income White youth ([PNAS, 2019](www.pnas.org)).
Third, poverty alone doesn't explain disparities; structural factors do:
- Sentencing disparities: For identical crimes, Black defendants receive sentences 20% longer than White defendants ([USSC, 2017](www.ussc.gov)).
- Wrongful convictions: Black people are 7x more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder than Whites, especially if the victim is White ([National Registry of Exonerations](www.law.umich.edu)).
- Homicide clearance rates: Murders with Black victims are solved 30% less often than those with White victims, skewing statistics ([FBI UCR, 2020](ucr.fbi.gov)).
Focusing on race-specific crime rates without acknowledging how systemic bias creates differential outcomes is like blaming a car crash victim without mentioning the other driver ran a red light. The data shows:
1. Your murder statistic is unsupported by credible research.
2. "Wealth" doesn't shield Black Americans from structural inequities.
3. Disparities reflect systemic failures, not inherent traits.
If you have a peer-reviewed source for your claim, I'm open to reviewing it. Until then, the evidence points to systemic factors as the primary driver of disparities.
And it's telling that you're solely focusing on violent crime when nonviolent crime is most significant. Just to, again, reiterate: Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow demonstrates that the explosion of Black incarceration rates in the U.S. is not primarily driven by violent crimes like murder, but by decades of racially targeted drug enforcement and low-level, nonviolent offenses. She shows that, starting in the 1980s, the War on Drugs was deliberately escalated in Black communities, even though research consistently finds White Americans use and sell drugs at similar or higher rates. This led to millions of Black Americans being arrested, charged, and labeled as felons for nonviolent drug offenses, not for violent crimes[1][5][7].
Alexander argues that this system of mass incarceration functions as a new form of racial caste, stripping Black individuals"often for minor, nonviolent offenses"of basic rights and opportunities in employment, housing, voting, and education. She emphasizes that these outcomes are not accidental or simply a byproduct of poverty or crime, but the result of intentional policy choices that disproportionately target and control Black communities[1][5].
By focusing only on murder rates, one ignores the central mechanism by which the criminal justice system has marginalized Black Americans: the mass criminalization and incarceration for nonviolent drug offenses. This policy-driven disparity (not a supposed cultural or inherent criminality) is what Alexander identifies as the New Jim Crow, perpetuating racial inequality under the guise of colorblind law enforcement[1][5][7].
[1] en.wikipedia.org
[2] www.ojp.gov
[3] learn.elca.org
[4] www.newyorker.com
[5] newjimcrow.com
[6] www.reimaginerpe.org
[7] pulitzercenter.org
[8] www.learningforjustice.org
Never heard of it but I like it.
#75 | Posted by BellRinger
Updated and urban version of the 4H. LOL
And what systemic barriers are those exactly?
#61 | Posted by ScottS
So glad you asked for actual context as it relates to the data (i.e., facts as you desrcibe)!
Plenty of that context has already been provided, but I'll reiterate anyways since you inquired:
There is extensive research showing that systemic racism has created and sustained economic and social disparities affecting Black Americans. Here are some key examples:
1. Discriminatory Lending and Housing Policies:
From the 1930s through recent decades, practices like redlining systematically denied Black families access to mortgages and homeownership, which is the main way most Americans build wealth. This has led to persistent gaps in homeownership rates, property values, and accumulated wealth between Black and White families[1][4][6].
2. Segregated and Underfunded Schools:
Because public schools rely heavily on local property taxes, neighborhoods with lower home values"often due to historic discrimination"have underfunded schools. This limits educational opportunities and outcomes for many Black children, perpetuating cycles of poverty[1].
3. Employment Discrimination and Wage Gaps:
Black workers face higher unemployment rates and wage disparities even when controlling for education and experience. This limits income growth and the ability to repay debts or accumulate savings[7][8].
4. Predatory Financial Services:
Communities of color are disproportionately targeted by payday lenders and other high-cost financial services, which trap families in cycles of debt and reduce their ability to build wealth[1].
5. Criminal Justice System Disparities:
Higher incarceration rates among Black Americans, driven by systemic biases, disrupt families and economic stability, further contributing to economic inequality[7]. Highly recommend you read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Era of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander, as previously mentioned.
6. Legacy of Historical Policies:
The cumulative effect of slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, and discriminatory policies has created structural barriers that continue to impact Black communities today[5][8]. Again, Alexander's book explains this at length
These systemic factors are not about individual choices but about how institutions and policies have created unequal starting points. Addressing these barriers is essential to creating a fairer lending system and economic opportunity for all.
If you want, I can share more detailed studies and data on these points. Hoping you're sincerely interested.
[1] www.healthaffairs.org
[2] www.americanprogress.org
[3] www.americanprogress.org
[4] home.treasury.gov
[5] www.nationalcivicleague.org
[6] www.aclu.org
[7] www.solutionsjournalism.org
[8] inequality.org
#59 | Posted by ScottS
You're right that Black borrowers have higher student loan default rates, and that family structure and economic challenges play a role. But it's misleading to reduce these outcomes to "self-imposed" cultural issues or to single parenthood alone.
Let's clarify the facts:
- The most recent data shows that about 47% of Black mothers are single mothers, not 72%[4][5]. While this is higher than other groups, it's also important to note that the majority of single mothers in the U.S. are white[2].
- Single motherhood is linked to economic hardship across all races, not just Black families[6]. Poverty rates for single-mother households are high for every group, and these challenges are shaped by broader social and economic forces, not just "culture"[6].
- The reasons for higher single-parent rates in Black communities are complex and include the legacy of discriminatory policies like redlining, mass incarceration, and employment discrimination that have disrupted family structures and limited economic opportunities for generations[7].
- Despite these challenges, Black women are now among the most educated groups in the U.S. and are often the primary breadwinners for their families, showing resilience and determination in the face of adversity[2].
On lending fairness:
Advocating for a "fair" lending system means understanding why some groups face more barriers to repayment and addressing those root causes, not just cutting off access. If we ignore the impact of systemic inequality and historical disadvantage, we risk blaming people for circumstances beyond their control, like you're doing here with your referenc to Black culture.
Pointing to single parenthood or "culture" as the main explanation for economic disparities oversimplifies a much bigger picture. The data shows that structural racism, policy choices, and economic inequality are the real drivers behind these outcomes"not just individual or cultural failings.
If you want to talk about solutions, let's focus on policies that support families, improve access to education, and address the systemic barriers that have held people back for generations.
[1] datacenter.aecf.org
[2] www.essence.com
[3] jbhe.com
[4] www.visualcapitalist.com
[5] www.voronoiapp.com
[6] singlemotherguide.com
[7] www.mother.ly
[8] www.jsums.edu
#52 | Posted by ScottS
Oh good! Triggered you with context. That's progress!
It's true that Black borrowers have much higher student loan default rates than White borrowers; recent data shows about 50% of Black borrowers have defaulted at least once, compared to less than a third of White borrowers[1][3][5][6][8]. But it's important to understand why this happens, because it's not just about willingness or "not paying back," which is what you're clearly implying.
I'll keep offering context until you acknowledge it: Research consistently shows that Black borrowers face greater financial challenges, including lower household incomes, less family wealth, higher unemployment, and more responsibility to support family members[2][5][6][7][8]. They're also more likely to be first-generation college students and to attend schools with lower graduation rates, both of which make repayment harder[5][6][8].
So, yes, the outcome is that repayment rates are lower and defaults are higher for Black borrowers. But the causes are rooted in systemic economic and social barriers, not simply personal choice or financial irresponsibility as you imply. If we want a fair lending system, we need to address these underlying issues"not just stop lending to people who face more obstacles.
[1] www.pew.org
[2] educationdata.org
[3] www.richmondfed.org
[4] www.statista.com
[5] www.luminafoundation.org
[6] jbhe.com
[7] www.pewtrusts.org
[8] www.luminafoundation.org
[9] robertkelchen.com
Liberals wouldn't admit that one country killing 1200 innocent citizens of another country is a bad thing.
#35 | Posted by humtak
You've convinced yourself of this to make yourself sleep at night, cultist?