Sunday, June 30, 2024

An Experiment Doled Out Money to Homeless People in Denver

An experiment to pay people who were homeless in Denver with no limits on how they could spend the money led to twice as many people in stable housing, according to researchers who released their one-year report Tuesday.

Posted by LampLighter at 04:30 PM | 57 COMMENTS | permalink

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More from the article...

... More than 800 people were selected to participate in the Denver Basic Income Project while they were living on the streets, in shelters, on friends' couches or in vehicles. They were separated into three groups. Group A received $1,000 per month for a year. Group B received $6,500 the first month and $500 for the next 11 months. And group C, the control group, received $50 per month.

About 45% of participants in all three groups were living in a house or apartment that they rented or owned by the study's 10-month check-in point, according to the research. The number of nights spent in shelters among participants in the first and second groups decreased by half. And participants in those two groups reported an increase in full-time work, while the control group reported decreased full-time employment.

The project also saved tax dollars, according to the report. Researchers tallied an estimated $589,214 in savings on public services, including ambulance rides, visits to hospital emergency departments, jail stays and shelter nights. ...


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 12:05 PM

"The project also saved tax dollars"

Republicans would rather pay more in taxes, than help the homeless.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-30 02:45 PM

But.. but.. Socialism!!!!

#3 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-06-30 04:54 PM

Aye Aye Captain ...the deck chairs are arranged perfectly, awaiting your inspection

Full speed ahead

#4 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 04:56 PM

#4 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Awwww, you think you're witty. That's so adorable!!

#5 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-06-30 05:01 PM

#5 POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

certainly something no one ever accused you of

#6 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 05:19 PM

#5 POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

dimwitty don't count

#7 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 05:21 PM

@#2 ... Republicans would rather pay more in taxes, than help the homeless. ...

I don't know if I would go that far.

I mean the whole concept of "Republicans would rather pay more in taxes" is, in and of itself, a dead end.

What I would like to see is this study expanded to see if the solution works in scale.

I mean, the results seen in this study were A Good Thing.


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 06:34 PM

I'm not convinced the experiment was sufficient. We may need to conduct it again to see if the results are replicatable.

#9 | Posted by Tor at 2024-06-30 06:38 PM

@#9

Yup.

For example ...

Does this just apply to homeless people in Colorado, or does it apply to other states as well?

Still, the early results do look interestng.


#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 06:49 PM

Gee..who woulda thought if you gave people money it'd improve their spending ability.

I don't mind spending the money but I want more return on my investment. public schools prove more money doesn't fix intrinsic social problems

free money reminds me of affirmative action ..need means testing so that aid goes to those who can put it to use

#11 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 08:34 PM

@#11 ... Gee..who woulda thought if you gave people money it'd improve their spending ability. ...

"Spending ability" is short term.

Longer term, from the article...

... About 45% of participants in all three groups were living in a house or apartment that they rented or owned by the study's 10-month check-in point, according to the research. The number of nights spent in shelters among participants in the first and second groups decreased by half. And participants in those two groups reported an increase in full-time work, ...

Reported an increase in full-time work.

Helping homeless people to get back ~on their feet~ seems to have positive results.

That's A Good Thing, yes?



#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 08:44 PM

#12 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

absolutely it's a good thing and my thoughts are the scalability. we have a massive homeless problem and a crap history of bureaucratic malfeasance.
gonna have to get hard(realistic) and separate the drug addicts and mental folks from people who can utilize help

this is no longer a situation that should be viewed with sympathy as the first option
these are disaster area/war zone problems now, exacerbated by the illegal influx

it ain't gonna be pretty and I'm sure the ACLU will have plenty to say but it's pay me now or pay me more later

#13 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 09:03 PM

@#13 ... these are disaster area/war zone problems now, exacerbated by the illegal influx ...

Got a link for that?

#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 09:13 PM

"gonna have to get hard(realistic) and separate the drug addicts and mental folks from people who can utilize help"

But we won't be sending anyone to camps, I swear!

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-30 09:17 PM

"gonna have to get hard(realistic) and separate the drug addicts and mental folks from people who can utilize help"

Yet another big believer in the Bill of Rights!

#16 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 09:20 PM

#16 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS.....Yet another big believer in the Bill of Rights

yes I am and I'd like to see it amended with a bill of responsibility

#15 POSTED BY SNOOFY...But we won't be sending anyone to camps, I swear!

what's wrong with camps? think WPA

#14 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER...Got a link for that?

hundreds o videos on youTube..daily news. but you know that

#17 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 09:32 PM

@#17 ... hundreds o videos on youTube..daily news. but you know that ...

In response to your #13

... these are disaster area/war zone problems now, exacerbated by the illegal influx .. ...

I asked if you had a link for that.

And the answer I got was a deflection.

Let me try again...

War zone?

How so?

Exacerbated by the illegal influx?

How so?

Links, instead of deflections, are helpful.

thx.



#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 09:42 PM

"what's wrong with camps? think WPA"

What awaits the mentally ill and the drug addicted at your WPA style camps?

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-30 09:45 PM

What awaits the mentally ill and the drug addicted at your WPA style camps?...#19 POSTED BY SNOOFY

how about I take care of the camps and work projects and you pitch in and offer a hand with the mentals.

the drug addicts need to be de-toxed and we'll see then if I get them or they go to you

#20 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 09:54 PM

how about I take care of the camps and work projects and you pitch in and offer a hand with the mentals.
the drug addicts need to be de-toxed and we'll see then if I get them or they go to you

#20 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Under what legal justification will you be taking this action?

#21 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 09:56 PM

#18 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

then don't call it a war zone...call'em happy campers

what's the difference they're living like animals

#22 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 09:57 PM

Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,...

Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Eighth Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Hmmm, grabbing people off the street, shoving them in camps and forcing detox on them? I don't see that in here. What am I missing?

#23 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 09:58 PM

hen don't call it a war zone...call'em happy campers
what's the difference they're living like animals

#22 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Why do you hate America?

#24 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 09:59 PM

Under what legal justification will you be taking this action?....#21 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

and the SC just gave states the right to make that very determination

#25 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 09:59 PM

and the SC just gave states the right to make that very determination

#25 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

the SC made it legal to criminalize sleeping, so you may have a point, our SC does hate the Bill of Rights

#26 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:01 PM

#23 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

and it'll be interesting to see exactly how states will thread that constitutional needle

#27 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:04 PM

I am sure the -------- states will lean on the cruel and unusual punishment angle.

#28 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:09 PM

@#27 ... and it'll be interesting to see exactly how states will thread that constitutional needle ...

Yeah.

instead of trying to resolve the cause of the problem, "thread the needle" to attack the symptoms.

That is always a successful strategy.

/s

#29 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:09 PM

#26 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

and everyone you disagree with, you label in some way as antithetical to American principle

and I always wonder if maybe there isn't a bit of Quisling in 'ol TRUTHHURTS

#30 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:10 PM

and everyone you disagree with, you label in some way as antithetical to American principle
and I always wonder if maybe there isn't a bit of Quisling in 'ol TRUTHHURTS
#30 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

I find punishing people for being unhoused to be cruel.

I find punishing mentally ill people reprehensible.

I find criminalizing addiction to be abhorrent.

I find all of these counterproductive to the aims of a civil society.

I am comfortable defending these positions.

If others find that as an attack on them, they should be looking to their sins, for the night is dark and full of terrors.

BTW, I don't think you understand the term Quisling, as it has no apparent attachment to the point you were attempting to make.

#31 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:14 PM

"and everyone you disagree with, you label in some way as antithetical to American principle"

So, sending people to camps, you're calling that an important American principle.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-30 10:14 PM

"and everyone you disagree with, you label in some way as antithetical to American principle"
So, sending people to camps, you're calling that an important American principle.

#32 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Keep in mind I was just asking how one squares rounding people up and putting them in camps with the stated rights in our Bill of Rights.

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:15 PM

#29 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

I'd wager the majority of the homeless are in their situation due to under/no employment.
these folks probably tend toward the lower end skill set sort of work

WHERE ARE OUR JOBS...OUR MANUFACTURING BASE

do plan on just supporting these folks until when? is the money infinite?

and we're just talking about THIS problem..in the midst of health care, home cost, global warming

#34 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:18 PM

the drug addicts need to be de-toxed and we'll see then if I get them or they go to you
#20 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Why?

Why doesn't freedom extend to the freedom to get addicted to drugs?

Sounds like you're just a busybody.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-30 10:21 PM

@#22 ... what's the difference they're living like animals ...

The difference between your designation of homeless camps as war zones, and your apparent retreat from that assertion to "what's the difference they're living like animals" is quite significant.

For one, your retreat from its prior assertion seems to show that even you realize that assertion was wrong.

But then there is the place you retreated to.

imo, that place is not better, but it does show how your view appears to intentionally denigrate the homeless because of the symptom, and seems to refuse to try to resolve the cause.


#36 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:23 PM

@#4 ... and we're just talking about THIS problem ...

That's the topic of this thread.

Are you feeling a need to deflect to another problem?

Maybe, start a new thread.

I'd be willing to comment there.

But, then the question that comes to mind for me, is why do you seem to want to deflect away from this discussion about homelessness, one in which you have shown that you to not seem to care about Americans.

#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:25 PM

"and everyone you disagree with, you label in some way as antithetical to American principle"

and that is something jeff accuses me of, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

#38 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:25 PM

#31 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Quisling was a Norwegian bureaucrat posing as a loyal Norwegian who it turned out didn't have his fellow countrymens best interests at heart. But maybe he thought he was doing them a favor.

and it's this civil society that you laud that's put us in the present circumstance.

I remember a better time in this country. it seemed people had more of a sense of responsibility to their families and their communities.

but with our loss of jobs we seem to have lost our pride..we've become bitter and mean...a lot of folks seem vengeful to me, mad because life in America has drastically changed in the last 30 years-hence trump

#39 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:32 PM

#37 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Talking about "this" meaning this thread specific problem in light of all the OTHER problems we're facing

#40 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:35 PM

@#39 ... I remember a better time in this country. it seemed people had more of a sense of responsibility to their families and their communities. ...

... and that sense of responsibility to their community now apparently ignores those in the community with problems?

#41 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:36 PM

@#40 ... Talking about "this" meaning this thread specific problem in light of all the OTHER problems we're facing ...

Oh, I saw that apparent deflect attempt by your comment, and I called it out.

So, if all those OTHER problems are so important to you, please start threads on them.

But, for this thread, please avoid the deflection attempts.


#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:39 PM

So, sending people to camps, you're calling that an important American principle....#32 POSTED BY SNOOFY

WPA camps were life savers. I'd be willing to bet that a huge number of folks including illegals would leap at the chance to work a modern day WPA project.
but if you can lay on you butt in a tent on the sidewalk and be satisfied then yeah, it'd probably offend your delicate sensibilities

#43 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:41 PM

Quisling was a power hungry fascist. You can say a lot about me but fascist don't fit.

It goes back longer than 30 years boy. It goes back to 1980 when we elected a monster. It took a long time since to realize it. All of the ills we suffer today grow from the seeds he sowed. It just took a long time for the harm of conservative ideology to gut the core strength of liberalism in America. We are seeing the decades long work come to fruition-divisiveness, massive wealth inequality, nascent fascism, corruption of the SC.

We are in the end game though, if ------- is re-elected. Project 2025 is a blueprint for the death of democracy, and that is being set up by this corrupt SC's recent decisions.

We will look back and think punishing people for sleeping is a quaint little old sin.

#44 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:43 PM

#42 POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

how many times are you going to post about what you consider deflection and I consider your inability to follow along. maybe I just do a poor job of explaining. Excuuuuse Me

#45 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:44 PM

WPA camps were life savers. I'd be willing to bet that a huge number of folks including illegals would leap at the chance to work a modern day WPA project.
but if you can lay on you butt in a tent on the sidewalk and be satisfied then yeah, it'd probably offend your delicate sensibilities

#43 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Yeah! Let's revisit the good old Great Depression Days! Hoovervilles, bread lines!

You can't spell Make America Great Again without Great (Depression)

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-06-30 10:47 PM

@#45 ... how many times are you going to post about what you consider deflection ...

As many times as you try to use deflection as an avoidance to provide an answer.

As I have said, if you want a discussion on those other topics, start threads on those topics.

Otherwise, those other topics are irrelevant on this thread.


:)


#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:53 PM

#44 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

to simplistic....reagan was just a polite trump. just like now, a front man for a system whose only purpose is to extract every scintilla of wealth and bestow it on the select few.
Lobbyists and Citizens United...is/will there be a way to ever be made whole again.
I'm afraid that bill of rights that you speak of, has been sold

#48 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 10:55 PM

@#46 ... You can't spell Make America Great Again without Great (Depression) ...

Yeah, the posts seem to be getting desperate

#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-30 10:56 PM

Yeah! Let's revisit the good old Great Depression Days! Hoovervilles, bread lines!
You can't spell Make America Great Again without Great (Depression)
#46 POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

All right....Show me a picture of a Hooverville as bad as a homeless sidewalk in downtown San Francisco New York Philadelphia Chicago Los Angeles
you mean like the bread lines and homeless shelters...those bread lines?
I suppose you could claim the homeless today have better tents and access to clean needles

#50 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-06-30 11:02 PM

War zone?

How so?

Exacerbated by the illegal influx?

How so?

Links, instead of deflections, are helpful.

That's cute that you think the source isn't his ass.

#51 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-07-01 08:36 AM

#51 POSTED BY NIXON

after 11 years that's what you come up with? even LIMPBITER is more original

#52 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-07-01 09:35 AM

how about I take care of the camps and work projects and you pitch in and offer a hand with the mentals.

#20 | POSTED BY BRERRABBIT

Mental illness and drug addiction are a huge problem. Years ago the country had treatment facilities available to almost everyone. Then conservatives decided they shouldn't have to pay for that.

The Loss Of U.S. Psychiatric Hospitals Led To A Mental Health Crisis

Did you know that more than half of the unhoused are actually gainfully employed? They simply can't afford a place to live.

Instead of camps, why doesn't America build affordable housing, psychiatric hospitals, and drug treatment centers?

#53 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-07-01 11:24 AM

I've been saying for years that the BEST way to help homeless people is to give them money.

If you want to actually help, DO NOT give to your local "rescue mission". DIRECT charity is far more effective.

That means on an individual basis the best thing you can do is hand cash to the guy standing on the side of the road with a sign, and lobby government to essentially do the same thing.

#54 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-07-01 11:50 AM

#54

I'd rather give the money to the shelter or food bank. Around here, the guy standing on a street corner with a sign is often a scammer who has someplace to go home to, probably even a car down the street. Or, even if they are homeless, a direct cash contribution to these people has the best chance of supporting a drug dealer or liquor store.

I will at times give these people food. Their reaction can be quite telling. The ones with real financial hardship are typically grateful.

#55 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-07-01 12:34 PM

#53 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

where's the profit that capitalism requires?

#56 | Posted by brerrabbit at 2024-07-01 12:34 PM

"where's the profit that capitalism requires?"

It's in the pockets of the landlords who are renting an apartment to the formerly homeless.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-07-01 12:38 PM

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