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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, September 13, 2024

When Robert F. Kennedy Jr. endorsed Donald Trump, five of his siblings issued a statement denouncing him: "Our brother Bobby's decision ... is a betrayal of the values that our father and our family hold most dear." Among the values they cited was "a shared vision of a brighter future" defined by "economic promise." But when it comes to economic policy, Mr. Trump is much better aligned with the values of President John F. Kennedy than Kamala Harris is. In December 1962, speaking at the Economic Club of New York, JFK said that the "federal government's most useful role" was "to expand the incentives and opportunities for private expenditures" by cutting "the fetters which hold back private spending." He committed "to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes."

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This almost seems like a cry for help from you.

#1 | Posted by morris at 2024-09-13 06:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

... by cutting "the fetters which hold back private spending ...

Back in the time of fmr Pres Kennedy, the trickle down theory appeared to work.

Unfettering expenditure in the economy benefited the middle and lower classes, not just the wealthy.

But then the wealthy, in the Reagan era, tilted the economy towards growing the wealthy and away from growing the Country.


So the main (entire?) premise of the OpEd your current alias cites seems to be based upon the usual quicksand of its posts.

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-13 06:42 PM | Reply

JFK dropped the upper bracket from 91 percent to 65 percent, and lower the corporate tax rate from 52 percent to 47 percent.

I could support those numbers. Let's raise today's rates to something that makes more sense!

#3 | Posted by YAV at 2024-09-13 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Circling the drain. Pobrecito.

WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED - NOTE THE RATES

The President addressed the issue of tax reform before the Economic Club of New York at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City on December 14, 1962.[5] On the advice of Walter Heller, the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, President John F. Kennedy proposed a tax cut designed to help spur economic growth.[6] Kennedy believed that the tax cut would stimulate consumer demand, which in turn would lead to higher economic growth, lower unemployment, and increased federal revenues.[7] Kennedy's support for a tax cut reflected his conversion to Keynesian economics, which favored temporary deficit spending in order to boost economic growth.[8] In January 1963, Kennedy presented Congress with a tax proposal that would reduce the top marginal tax rate from 91 percent to 65 percent, and lower the corporate tax rate from 52 percent to 47 percent; in total, the cut was projected to decrease income taxes by about $10 billion and corporate taxes by about $3.5 billion. The plan also included reforms designed to reduce the impact of itemized deductions, as well as provisions to help the elderly and handicapped.[9] Conservatives revolted at giving Kennedy a key legislative victory before the election of 1964 and blocked the bill in Congress.[10]

Lyndon B. Johnson succeeded Kennedy as president after the latter was assassinated in November 1963. After Johnson agreed to decrease the total federal budget to under $100 billion, powerful conservative Senator Harry F. Byrd dropped his opposition to a tax cut, clearing the way for its passage as the Revenue Act of 1964.[11] Johnson signed the bill into law on February 26, 1964.[12] Passage of the long-stalled tax cut facilitated efforts to move ahead on the Civil Rights Act of 1964.[13]

en.wikipedia.org

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-09-13 08:58 PM | Reply

As LEGALLYYOURDEAD's post clearly shows comparing the tax cut JFK got passed in Comgress to the massive giveaways by Reagan, Bush 1 & 2 and then Trump is preposterous and just a laughable attempt to make RFK Jr. seem less like a lunatic with absolutely nothing of importance to say about much of anything. Those making that poor excuse of an argument know how desperate and ridiculous it is but they throw it up like mud at the proverbial wall to see if any of it sticks. As it turns out none sticks but they then either look stupid of dishonest. You choose but it is one or the other.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2024-09-14 12:06 AM | Reply

"Back in the time of fmr Pres Kennedy, the trickle down theory appeared to work. Unfettering expenditure in the economy benefited the middle and lower classes, not just the wealthy."

It worked when Reagan did it in 1986.

Where the U gets weird is in their (our) refusal to implement a VAT. We wouldn't be having these discussions as much if the US had a VAT, like pretty much every other western country.

#6 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-09-15 12:06 PM | Reply

#6

Even Investopedia laughs in your general direction:

"5 Reasons Why Supply-Side Economics Does Not Work
Many of the claims made by supply-siders have been disproven over the years"

www.investopedia.com

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 12:32 PM | Reply

#7

So...you would favor of a VAT, higher taxes, or both?

#8 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-09-16 04:20 AM | Reply

__________
#7 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 12:32 PM
"5 Reasons Why Supply-Side Economics Does Not Work
Many of the claims made by supply-siders have been disproven over the years"
www.investopedia.com

I've already debunked this particular "opinion piece" in the Investopedia and similar ones well over a year ago, so I won't go into a lot of details again, except to note that it's not written by an economist, "reviewed" by a lawyer, and "fact-checked" by an aspiring yoga and mind wellness influencer.

The main problem with this "opinion piece" is that it's very short on facts and very heavy on biased opinions, particularly skewed against what it mischaracterized as supply-side economics (which has since become "normal economics" in most advanced and developing countries, particularly in former socialist Warsaw Block countries)**, and in favor of so-called "backlash of left-wing thinkers," and it's also full of qualifiers (like "not always" etc.) and false "correlations" / comparisons, let alone trying to prove causations etc.

Another is the long-debunked "correlation" of marginal tax rate cuts with deficits. Deficits are the results of uncontrolled spending, not tinkering with marginal tax rates - while the actual percent of income tax revenues to GDP went up or stayed the same (didn't go down as a result of tax rate cuts), the spending "over budget" and on "off-budget items" have increased significantly, by Congress + Presidents.

Total tax revenues have stayed in median range of 16% - 18% of GDP since 1960s, only dipping below 14% after GFC and stock market meltdown in 2009, and getting above 19% at the height of "internet bubble" in 2000 (due to cap gains), despite vastly different tax rates and brackets over decades, and higher marginal individual (including cap gains) and corporate tax rates and additional taxes, like Social Security and excise taxes (~2.5% of total taxes) .

For instance, we understand that high taxes on tobacco discourage the consumption, or that tariffs/taxes lead to higher prices and lower consumption. IOW, we understand the fact that costs can and do affect buyers' behavior - yet somehow fail to accept it when it comes to income, corporate or other taxes.

One of the things that Reagan's tax reforms have done is reducing brackets down to 3-4, i/of 15-30+ in the 50s-70s.

There were also grudging acknowledgements that supply-side policy is a long-term solution to produce desired results, yet examples of it "not working" were short-timed - well, duh - we've had 40 years of low inflation / disinflation to be thankful for it.

We've just had another "experiment" with Keynesian "quick-fix" demand-side economics ("trickle-up") which inevitably and predictably leads to high inflation and consequent increase in "inequality" as money from the lower quintiles of "demanders" / consumers / buyers "trickle up" faster to highest quintiles of producers / sellers / "suppliers" - i.e., money flows "from the bottom up" or "from the middle out." ***

-----

** If you want a quick, unbiased tutorial - not a biased opinion piece - on supply-side from Investopedia, reviewed by economics professor:

www.investopedia.com - Supply-Side Economics: What You Need to Know

And short, but factual and comprehensible essay:

www.econlib.org - Supply-Side Economics - James D. Gwartney, professor of economics and former chief economist of the Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. Congress

*** "From the middle out" always reminds me of 'Silicon Valley' series where that was a description of main character's high-speed compression algorithm.
__________

#9 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-09-16 11:24 AM | Reply

"The Failure of Supply-Side Economics

Three Decades of Empirical Economic Data Shows That Supply-Side Economics Doesn't Work"

www.americanprogress.org

"Neither history nor research supports supply-side economics"

equitablegrowth.org

Debunking Laffer

"A series of reports from Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy explains why these supply side claims are not supported by the evidence, and exposes the many serious flaws in the analyses that Laffer has constructed to lend it support."

itep.org

"Art Laffer still thinks he was right about tax cuts

At 82, the Reagan tax-cut cheerleader is still preaching the gospel of trickle-down economics, even after some dire failures of the Laffer curve.'"

"After instituting historic cuts to tax rates, Reagan implemented tax-raising initiatives for several years to offset mounting deficits.

The deficit also grew after Trump cut taxes. And a decade ago in Kansas, after Republican Gov. Sam Brownback instituted tax reductions on the wealthy that Laffer hailed as a "revolution in a cornfield," state leaders had to impose severe cuts to education and infrastructure as they scrambled to close a massive deficit. T

he state legislature then reversed the tax cuts.

"It turned out pretty badly," said Bruce Bartlett, a former domestic policy adviser to Reagan and a Laffer critic.

"It lost so much revenue that the same people who passed the tax cut had to pass an increase to keep the whole financial enterprise afloat. It shows the lack of seriousness that underlies all of Arthur's analyses."

www.washingtonpost.com

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-16 11:48 AM | Reply

Milton Friedman killed our economy.

#11 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-09-16 12:19 PM | Reply

jacobin.com

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-16 12:24 PM | Reply

__________
www.americanprogress.org
equitablegrowth.org
www.ietp.org
jacobin.com

Same good old progressive orgs extolling the virtue of high taxes as panacea to "inequality" and deficits.

"Ultimately, ITEP's corporate tax work helped secure critical provisions in the Tax Reform Act of 1986 that closed corporate tax loopholes and raised the corporate tax rate to ensure companies were paying their fair share."

Their own chart disproves their "conclusions."

"The deficit also grew after Trump cut taxes..."

And "the deficit also grew after Obama increased tax rates..." - that's exactky one of those "non-causational non-correlations" that I pointed to in the article - it's all about spending and Congress + Presidents (Dems + Reps) wanting to "invest record amounts for infrastructure, manufacturing, moonshots... whatever" and spending beyond budgetary means - as I've already proved in my post that the level of marginal taxes doesn't much affect the percentage of revenue to GDP the government collects, even in the 60s - tax rates do affect the economic growth and inflation - Econ-101.

Basically, same "non-partisan" left-wing orgs, presenting exactly same anecdotes that have nothing to do with actual supply-side economics and everything to do with spending ("deficits") and "Kansas" - which was exercise not in "supply-side" but in political idiocy, because in already high-spending low-tax state bill was uniquely designed to fail and had no chance to "stimulate" the economy, as he was warned by supply-side economists at the time (it actually violated the lower band of "Laffer curve") - that was actually Bartlett's problem with Laffer - promise of "unconditional magic pill" - it stopped at ~20%.

For every mention of "Kansas" I can show you a broke high-tax high-spending high-unemployment high-poverty state - e.g.. look at California's boom-bust surplus-and-deficits economy that depends on high earners - should they increase tax rates after turning $100B in surplus into $65B deficit in a year, even absent down business cycle ?

"Along with fellow neo-Keynesian economist James Meade in 1977, Tobin proposed nominal GDP targeting as a monetary policy rule in 1980."

Paul Spahn debunked it in 1995: "Analysis has shown that the Tobin tax ... is not viable and should be laid aside for good. ... If the tax is generally applied... it will severely impair financial operations and create international liquidity problems..."

Yes, we and many other countries have just experienced high inflation and deficits of that "monetary policy rule" and Keynesian quick-fix policies - BTW, that included Trump.

"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon" - Milton Friedman.

Many countries now have benefited from sound supply-side policies, several in South America are just starting to get on the right track after years of Keynesian government-run economies.

Please, stop recycling the same bias-confirming debunked anecdotes about "supply-side never worked" from progressive orgs that don't stand basic economic scrutiny and opinion pieces about "fair share, living wage / [always] higher minimum wages, [always] higher taxes on the rich" (which by the way, "trickle down" to lower quintiles and only exacerbate inequality, not panacea to deficits or business cycles), and read some Econ-101 facts about long-term policies that have been successfully adopted after disasters of all different Keynesianisms - you can start with the links I provided.

I wasted enough time on this, explaining - again - what should be obvious from the facts. People just want to keep getting high on their own juice.
__________

#13 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-09-16 06:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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