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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, June 11, 2024

Patrick Wintour: Putin's war in Ukraine and lessons from history Some analysts believe Kyiv is buying the west time on the precipice of a world war. Is it being used wisely?

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"When big history is self-evidently being written, and leaders face momentous choices, the urge to find inspiration in instructive historical parallels is overwhelming and natural.

"The only clue to what man can do is what man has done," the Oxford historian RG Collingwood once wrote.

One of the contemporary politicians most influenced by the past is the Estonian prime minister, Kaja Kallas, and not just because of her country's occupation by Russia or her personal family history of exile.

She lugs books on Nato-Russian relations, such as Not One Inch, with her on beach holidays. And in her hi-tech office at the top of the old town in Tallinn, she argued this was a 1938 moment " a moment when a wider war was imminent but the west had not yet joined the dots.

She said the same mistake was made in 1938 when tensions in Abyssinia, Japan and Germany were treated as isolated events.

The proximate causes of the current conflicts in Ukraine, the Middle East, the South China Sea and even Armenia might be different, but the bigger picture showed an interconnected battlefield in which post-cold war certainties had given way to "great-power competition" in which authoritarian leaders were testing the boundaries of their empires.

The lesson " and necessity " was to resist and rearm.

"The lesson from 1938 and 1939 is that if aggression pays off somewhere, it serves as an invitation to use it elsewhere," Kallas said." (more at the thread link)

.

Which is why so many nations are trying to make sure that this aggression doesn't pay off.... because if it does, it won't stop in Ukraine.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2024-06-10 10:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How long befor Herr Trump declares it illegal to quote him or even remember anything he says about anything, This behavior should be viewed with alarm because it is Putinesque in its psychotic belief that he should have the right to control what is reported about his actual comments, made in public, and televised around the world. How different is it from Putin jailing a journalist for live streaming, from Bucha Ukraine, with live witnesses telling their storues about the war crimes committed by the Russians early in their unprovoked invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine? I thnk that her reporting should be viewed by both the Pulitzer Committee and the Nobel Committee when they choose the recipients of awards even as Anna Bazhutova serves her sentence of five years for honest reporting, I pray yhat her incarceration will not be used as it was for Alexei Anatolyevich Navalny as an opportunity for murder.
Today, as we see the atrocities Putin is committing right in front of us it is time for Americans like Sen. Tommy Tubrtville to be callef out as ehe traitors against human rights abd democracy that they clearly are. But don't worry, just as in 1941, there will be a tipping point when American Putin sychophants will be seen as ,wjat they are, and live the remainder of their lives in shame; oh we can name othes voicing the same shameful rhetoric as Tuberville and the same "yipping point" is coming for them too and it will shame them, irredeemably, for the rest of their lives. This opinion is based on the historical record about those who supported Hitler in 19936-1939 and that group includes some very famous ad revered bames who otherwise would ne honored heroes today but instead are mostly remembered as traitors who supported the worst mass murderer in history; sort of like Putin is now on his to equal I honestly do wonder; have these prople never read enen a high school history book?
REPOSTED BY DANNI TO CORRECT MOST OF THE TYPING ERRORS. AT 2024-06-11 06:00 AM

#2 | Posted by danni at 2024-06-11 05:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Some analysts believe Kyiv is buying the west time on the precipice of a world war.

Elect Trump and time is up. He will likely let Putin roll right over Ukraine and NATO. He's already said so.

#3 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-06-11 05:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 4

WHATLEFT

I've been saying that for a while.

While we're all pre-occupied with the sideshows, Putin and Trump (the GOP) are setting the stage for World War III.

Anybody who votes for Trump is going to have a lot of blood on their conscience.

#4 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-06-11 06:12 PM | Reply

Elect Trump and time is up. He will likely let Putin roll right over Ukraine and NATO. He's already said so.

#3 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT AT 2024-06-11 05:11 PM | FLAG:

but he can't deliver. Rhinemetall alone has ramped to 400,000 a shells a year to feed Ukraine. The US has contributed less than half of what the EU has.

There's a reason the AFD just no-showed Zelensky's speech in Germany. Russia has spent a lot of time and effort grooming the EU right wing because they're a bigger contributor than the US.

#5 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-06-11 06:29 PM | Reply

TWIN-if you are correct (and I hope like hell you are not :>) World War 3 will be the last world war.

#6 | Posted by Yodagirl at 2024-06-11 06:54 PM | Reply

No sane person can listen to Trump and watch him be so defensive of Putin while Putin threatens nuclear war and support him for President. I wonder what is in the Trump KoolAide? The idea of him being CinC at a time the US very likely will be fighting a war against Putin and Russia is just too scary to contemplate yet his cult continues towards the cliff like lemmings and with just as much intelligence as those suicidal little rodents.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2024-06-11 08:53 PM | Reply

YODAGIRL

She knows of what she speaks.

Anybody who has ever listened to the interviews of Mary Trump, a trained psychologist and niece of Donald Trump and the author of "TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH (How my family created the world's most dangerous man) would never doubt that both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, once they get a foothold, would never be satisfied with such small gains as 1) a dictatorship for Trump or 2) the U.S.S.R. for Putin. Not after NATO is out of the way and all of Europe is wide open for the taking.

We're talking about unfettered power in the hands of two self-serving, unscrupled, merciless power mongers both driven by incessant greed and revenge. Killing millions of people to get what they want is a no-brainer for either of these two madmen.

There is a cure for this madness. Just vote against it in November.

#8 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-06-12 05:39 AM | Reply

TWIN-I've read her book (almost twice-still working on the 2nd pass. What Fred Sr. did to his firstborn/her dad was criminal.) and supported her with a subscription. trump is classic, sociopathic dictator material. Coward, bully, paranoid, vindictive etc. you know the drill.

Unless I croak between now & November (73 in a month) I will certainly be voting!

#9 | Posted by Yodagirl at 2024-06-12 11:57 AM | Reply

"73 in a month"

Ah, that means you must start taking out RMDs from your retirement accounts.

A few tips and insights:

Each 401k (or the like) requires its own RMD.

Self-directed IRAs can have a collective RMD, meaning you can take the required amount from ANY IRA(s) you choose.

If you don't make your first RMD by 12/31/24, you'll have to do it by 4/1/25, or face ugly penalties. If you DO wait until 4/1/25, you have to make a second annual withdrawal by 12/31/25.

You'll know on Jan 1 how much RMD must be taken out: it's based on 1/1 balance, and IRS life expectancy tables. But you'll have until 12/31 to take it out ... which is ALWAYS what I recommend: have your annual distribution set for mid-December. It extends the life of the payouts, since it's possible the markets gain more than your required withdrawal by December.

Also: If you make any charitable contributions, make sure they are directly from a taxable IRA, to your charity of choice. It's called a Qualified Charitable Distribution (QCD). That way, it doesn't show up on your tax return as income, but it still counts toward your RMD!

Congrats on your upcoming birthday!

#10 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-06-12 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks Danforth, for all the info and birthday wishes. We converted to Roths 12-13 years ago so no RMDs with those, according to the web and our financial guy. Appreciate the thoughts and your effort!!! A few weeks ago I was 20 and broke, without a care in the world! Man did it go fast!

#11 | Posted by Yodagirl at 2024-06-12 03:16 PM | Reply

" A few weeks ago I was 20 and broke, without a care in the world! Man did it go fast!"

I hear you. Damn, that was fast!

Congrats on the Roth conversions; you got good advice. I'm doing that now, since my bride has retired and we have room before getting into higher brackets.

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-06-12 03:19 PM | Reply

@#11 ... A few weeks ago I was 20 and broke, without a care in the world! Man did it go fast! ...


Joni Mitchell - The Circle Game
www.youtube.com

Lyrics excerpt...

genius.com

...
Yesterday a child came out to wonder
Caught a dragonfly inside a jar
Fearful when the sky was full of thunder
And tearful at the falling of a star

[Chorus]
And the seasons, they go 'round and 'round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return, we can only look
Behind from where we came
And go 'round and 'round and 'round
In the circle game

...

Sixteen springs and sixteen summers gone now
Cartwheels turn to car wheels through the town
And they tell him, "Take your time, it won't be long now
'Til you drag your feet to slow the circles down"

...

So, the years spin by and now the boy is twenty
Though his dreams have lost some grandeur coming true
There'll be new dreams, maybe better dreams and plenty
Before the last revolving year is through

[Chorus]
And the seasons, they go 'round and 'round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return, we can only look
Behind from where we came
And go 'round and 'round and 'round
In the circle game
And go 'round and 'round and 'round
In the circle game
...


One of my all-time favorite tunes.

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-06-12 03:53 PM | Reply

"We're captive on the carousel of time"

^
They solved this problem in Logan's Run.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-12 03:54 PM | Reply

There are key differences between now and 1938.

The Russiaian military has nowhere near the capacity of the Nazi war machine in 1938.

Invading Czechoslovakia in 1938 cost the Nazis nothing. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine suffering some heavy, and embarrassing losses.

The German economy in 1938 was in decent shape. The Russian economy is not good.

There are other key differences, but these are good examples.

Russia right after the Crimea invasion would be a better comparison.

I think the civilized world is doing OK in handling this war. But we should be more aggressive and quit worrying about the many, many, nuclear threats from Putin.

#15 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-06-12 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If there's a WORLD WAR, the big guy in the White House will have played a big part. He wanted war between Russia and Ukraine. That's why he always hyped NATO on Russia's border. That's why he never attempted to negotiate peace. Even our NATO leaders didn't want to admit UKRAINE as a member. They all surely recognize that NATO members are vulnerable to being played by false flags and perpetual war by deception. War always means easy money to those in leadership positions and it means death / destruction to average people. FJB

#16 | Posted by Robson at 2024-06-12 05:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#13-Lamp-mine and my wife's also, along with Chelsea Morning. Used to play guitar back in those days, but her stuff? Fagettaboutit-I couldn't detune nor could my fingers bend like that!

#17 | Posted by Yodagirl at 2024-06-12 05:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#16

Puppy is sick... someone call the Vet!

Rather than disputing the thread article he didn't read, he just repeats the same stupid claims over and over.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2024-06-12 06:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

__________
'We're in 1938 Now': Putin's War in Ukraine

Except that about this time last year it was late 1944 - early 1945 for Putin ("bunker time")), but instead of fully supporting Ukraine counter-offensive and supplying them with what they actually needed for breakthrough, along with whatever old gear we were dumping from storage (e.g., Ukraine even refused delivery of number of German Leopard tanks because they were "not maintained" and "defective" / rusted) while we were listening to Putin's "red flags" and observing and debating what Ukraine will need to "give up" if the West wants "peace" instead of "permanent war" that would "cost too much" ... even though most of the "cost" not only stays in the US to spend on MIC, but also helps increase military exports into EU/NATO countries to replace NATO-"leased" old weapons, with the U.S. (and some members of NATO Armed Forces) standardizing on and getting outfitted with significantly improved technology, including F-35s and [Israel-developed] "Iron Fist" IF-LD.

And that was even before Putin and Ayatollah Khamenei unleashed Hamas and Hezbollah and Houthis and opened the "second front" in the Middle East, which we seemed to be ready to bungle as well, all so we can "de-escalate" and just pressure allies to "take the win" ... and then Russia opened a political "third front" in their hybrid war in Europe, politically / electorally flipping governments of some "unfriendly" NATO states and potentially cancelling or delaying unfavorable NATO decisions, like Orban and Erdogan have done recently.

Our State Dept, as usual, was caught either happily napping / ignoring or worse, unwittingly helping these developments, hoping for quick fixes and/or to kick the can down the road.
__________

#19 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-06-14 04:28 PM | Reply

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