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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, September 27, 2024

In western Pennsylvania, Trump made one of his most savage anti-immigrant appeals yet. But one local official says it's all a lie.

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Because the race in PA is so tight and because Trump's major campaign strategy now is demonizing immigrants, he has taken his Springfield, OH tactcs to PA and once again his claims about Haitian immigrants are a pack of lies:

Trump's repugnant new claims about immigrants in another small town"Charleroi, in southwestern Pennsylvania"expose the ugly underbelly of that zero-sum messaging in a fresh way. At a rally near Pittsburgh on Monday, Trump unleashed a volley of new attacks on Haitian arrivals to Charleroi, and used them to launch a broader argument about Pennsylvania, insisting that its towns and villages have been "inundated."

In an interview, Charleroi Borough Manager Joe Manning flatly said that Trump's claims are false or simply do not apply to his town in any sense. "There's what the former president is saying," Manning told me, "and then there's easily observable reality."


#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-26 08:51 AM | Reply

Governor Shapiro talks about Kamala Harris' chances of winning Pennsylvania and responds to Trump's attacks on Haitians in the state, which Shapiro calls "utter --------."

newrepublic.com

#2 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-26 10:30 AM | Reply

2024 Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Harris
www.realclearpolling.com

Scroll down a bit to se the graph of the results.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-26 10:49 AM | Reply

#3 Yeas, Shapiro says it's basically a tie in the article I linked to above:

Sargent: Governor, as of today, the polling averages have Harris ahead 1.3 points in your state. That's incredibly close. What's your sense? As of now, is Harris leading in Pennsylvania, even if it's by an extremely slim margin, or is it functionally a tie?

Shapiro: I mean, look, it's probably functionally a tie. But hear me on this, because I think some context is really important. The last two presidential races, Greg, came down to 44,000 votes and 80,000 votes to put that in some context for your viewers and listeners. That's a point or less. So whether it's statistically a tie or it's one point, the reality is the races here come down to a few tens of thousands of votes. Now, I'd rather be us than them. Let me explain why. Let me offer a little bit of meat on the bone there to back up my statement. Kamala Harris is playing on his side of the field right now. She's showing up in rural communities and getting some really positive feedback. I'm seeing, anecdotally, more signs, more volunteers, more people willing to join the Harris campaign in the communities that are those swing areas or the swing counties. And while you got to pick up those last few yards and get in the end zone"and those last few yards are really tough here in Pennsylvania"I think we've got momentum and I'd rather be us than them in this battle.

#4 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-26 11:26 AM | Reply

@#4 ... That's incredibly close. What's your sense? As of now, is Harris leading in Pennsylvania, even if it's by an extremely slim margin, or is it functionally a tie? ...

Given the margins of error in the cited polls, I'd say that Pennsylvania is a tie.

Looking at the chart, though... if VP Harris can keep up the current trend, will her campaign break out of the MoE by Election Day?

My current guess: a definite "possibly."

:)


#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-26 02:56 PM | Reply

Facts are an inconvenience for Trumpers.

Don't expect any of them to listen.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-26 02:58 PM | Reply

2022...Pennsylvanians voted in Josh Shapiro governor over Maga Mastriano by huge margins. They also elected John Fetterman by a large margin, stroke lisp and all over Trumper Dr. Oz. Most have wised up to the maga BS and tired old games they pull.

#7 | Posted by AlternateFacts at 2024-09-28 01:25 AM | Reply

Facts are an inconvenience for Lumpers

FTFY

Most have wised up to the maga BS and tired old games they pull.

Only an idiot would believe no criminals or rapist are getting into the US via Biden's border policies.

Anyone whitewashing these numbers deserves a lashing. The US can expect civil lawsuits.

662,566 non-detainers with criminal backgrounds.
435,719 convicted criminals
226,847 with pending criminal trials.
13,099 convicted of homicide
62,231 convicted of assault
9,461 sexual offenses
15,811 sexual assault.

Greatest crime story ever.

#8 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-28 08:03 AM | Reply

The US can expect civil lawsuits.

Yet again, you prove how little you know about this nation and our laws. Numbers alone don't tell the entire story. And I've already corrected you once, yet you try again with statistics removed from context, conflating bureaucratic law and regulations as something reckless instead of the Congress-ordered reality of current US policy that one party continually tries to address and the other party refuses to just for politically convenient exploitation like you're doing. Read this as many times as it takes to sink in.

Despite the challenges of operating within a broken immigration system, and in the face of an enormous workload and consistently limited funding, DHS continues to enforce the law to secure our borders. We are removing and returning record numbers of migrants who are unable to establish a legal basis to remain in the United States, and prioritizing for removal those who present national security and public safety risks, and recent border crossers.

From mid-May 2023 through the end of July 2024, DHS removed or returned more than 893,600 individuals, including more than 138,300 individuals in family units. The majority of all individuals encountered at the Southwest Border over the past three years have been removed, returned, or expelled.

Your letter requests the number of noncitizens on ICE's docket convicted or charged with a crime. As of July 21, 2024, there were 662,566 noncitizens with criminal histories on ICE's national docket, which includes those detained by ICE, and on the agency's non-detained docket. Of those, 435,719 are convicted criminals, and 226,847 have pending criminal charges. Please refer to the following chart. It is important to note that detention determinations are made using a few guidelines.

First, ICE is bound by statutory requirements not to release certain noncitizens from ICE custody during the pendency of removal proceedings and notes that most noncitizens who are convicted of homicide are typically not eligible for release from ICE custody under 236(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

Second and in limited circumstances when 236(c) does not apply, ICE officers may use their discretion in making custody determinations and release noncitizens with conditions. ICE custody determinations are made on a case-by-case basis and take into account the individual case circumstances, primarily considering risk of flight, national security threat, and threat to public safety. ICE takes other factors into consideration as well, including when a noncitizen has a serious medical condition, is the primary caregiver of minor children, or other humanitarian considerations.

You also requested ICE's current detention capacity. Under the DHS appropriations bill enacted on March 23, 2024, ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) is funded at 41,500 beds through the rest of the fiscal year (FY), which is an increase from 34,000 in FY 2023.

www.foxnews.com

Why hasn't the Republican controlled House funded ICE beyond their ability to only house 41,500 people at a time? Our broken immigration system is the fault of all stakeholders, not one President, nor one Congress.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-09-28 08:28 AM | Reply

It is well known within political circles that Democrats have used race, ethnicity, illegal and legal mmigration for years to divide, manipulate votes and change local culture. That is what people see when Democrats bus or fly foreigners into their community. They see devious Democrats importing poverty to change demographics and voting patterns.

Democrat leaders create poor cities states and towns purposely for political purposes, while their leaders live in mansions on exclusive islands.

Democrats will never create better, safer and more affluent communities. But they will ruin yours. It is their fundamental method of operation.

#10 | Posted by Robson at 2024-09-28 08:38 AM | Reply

Only an idiot would believe no criminals or rapist are getting into the US via Biden's border policies.

Anyone whitewashing these numbers deserves a lashing. The US can expect civil lawsuits.

The question is: when did they get in? Have some of them been here for years? How do these figures compare to numbers for other administrations?:

The data shows that, among those not in detention, there are 425,431 convicted criminals and 222,141 with pending criminal charges. The data does not reveal how many of those criminals are recent arrivals.

For comparison, in August 2016, toward the end of the Obama administration, ICE said there were about 2.2 million noncitizens on the non-detained docket and about 368,574 were convicted criminals.

www.foxnews.com

It's interesting that the data is from 2016 (Obama) and 2024 (Biden) but not 2020 (Trump). What were the figures for August 2020 when Trump was president? Since Trump and the GOP are outright lying about the immigrant situation in places like Charleroi, PA and Springfield, OH, I don't trust them to be telling the truth about anything when it comes to the issue of immigration.

#11 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-28 08:53 AM | Reply

Here are some of the lies that Trump is telling about Charleroi, PA:

In an interview, Charleroi Borough Manager Joe Manning flatly said that Trump's claims are false or simply do not apply to his town in any sense. "There's what the former president is saying," Manning told me, "and then there's easily observable reality."

Trump's assertions about Haitians and Charleroi echo his many lies about Springfield. He portrayed Charleroi as absolutely overrun with migrants, as if it's succumbing to a foreign "invasion," a word he also used at the Pennsylvania rally.

"Not far from here, the 4,000-person town of Charleroi ... has seen a 2,000 percent increase in the population," Trump seethed at the rally, which was held in Indiana, Pennsylvania. He suggested that Charleroi has become a "totally different place."

But that's not close to true, according to Manning. He says the town's population of Haitians is actually "between 700 and 800." Manning pointed out that if Trump's claim were true"and this town of just over 4,000 had seen a 2,000 percent increase"it would suddenly have a population closer to 100,000. Recounting this idea to me, Manning burst out laughing.

At his rally, Trump also ramped up the zero-sum rhetoric about immigrants taking American jobs. "Another front in Kamala's war on workers is her gigantic migrant invasion," he said.

Trump even embellished this with an elaborate tale in which Harris is chief engineer behind a project to "inundate Pennsylvania communities." He held up Charleroi as an example of this throughout, telegraphing his closing argument in this must-win state.

But this rhetoric simply doesn't apply to Charleroi, Manning said. He noted that many of the Haitians work at a local packaging plant whose owner could not find workers, and went to an employment agency for help. That agency got Haitians to come work in the borough"in other words, locals, and not Harris, enticed them there"and they liked the place, Manning said, so they "put down roots."

The key tell here, Manning pointed out, is that even now, with the Haitians already in the town, the packaging plant owner is still looking for workers.

"They ain't taking anybody's jobs," Manning said, noting that they are helping revitalize the town, just as immigrants are reviving other Rust Belt towns amid postindustrial population decline. "They have occupied places that were vacant for years because a lot of people moved out of here," he noted.

What about Trump's claim that towns across Pennsylvania are being swamped by job-stealing immigrants? Well, the state's unemployment rate is 3.4 percent, so it's unclear how this represents a "war on workers," as Trump says. As Paul Krugman explains, immigrants often boost employment for the native-born in such communities, because they spend money in them. As for Trump's suggestion that immigrants are unleashing a crime wave in the state, asked whether there's been any uptick in crime in Charleroi, Manning bluntly replied: "No."


#12 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-28 09:02 AM | Reply

Lets be honest. If we had a real news media that challenged and reported candidly and honestly about the establishment and powers that be, without regard to political bias, we wouldnt have this great fabricated divide on ethnicity either. We wouldn't have Trump running for office and we wouldn't have clueless ones like Kamala Harris remotely near the Whitehouse.

The controlled politicized news media is our real problem.

#13 | Posted by Robson at 2024-09-28 09:57 AM | Reply

The controlled politicized news media is our real problem.

#13 | Posted by Robson

You're the real problem.

It's been explained to you.

#14 | Posted by Zed at 2024-09-28 10:20 AM | Reply

"It's been explained to you." - #14 | Posted by Zed at 2024-09-28 10:20 AM

Further proof that some MAGAts are dumb as rocks

#15 | Posted by Hans at 2024-09-28 10:46 AM | Reply

"It's been explained to you." - #14 | Posted by Zed at 2024-09-28 10:20 AM

Further proof that some MAGAts are dumb as rocks
As an adjunct to this:
MAGAts post 100% pure BS because they believe that EVERYONE IS AS STUPID AS THEY ARE

#16 | Posted by Hans at 2024-09-28 10:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#9 ... Why hasn't the Republican controlled House funded ICE beyond their ability to only house 41,500 people at a time? ...

Simple.

Fmr Pres Trump wants to have a border problem, not border security.


#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-28 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Fmr Pres Trump wants to have a border problem, not border security.

Bingo

#18 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-09-28 05:15 PM | Reply

Anyone whitewashing these numbers deserves a lashing. The US can expect civil lawsuits.
662,566 non-detainers with criminal backgrounds.
435,719 convicted criminals
226,847 with pending criminal trials.

How about people who are blackwashing these numbers? What should happen to them? Here's what the letter actually says:

Your letter requests the number of noncitizens on ICE's docket convicted or charged with
a crime. As of July 21, 2024, there were 662,566 noncitizens with criminal histories on ICE's
national docket, which includes those detained by ICE, and on the agency's non-detained docket.
Of those, 435,719 are convicted criminals, and 226,847 have pending criminal charges.

So, no, it does not say "662,566 non-detainers with criminal backgrounds." It says: "there were 662,566 noncitizens with criminal histories on ICE's national docket, which includes those detained by ICE, and on the agency's non-detained docket."

And again as I pointed out earlier, the letter does not say when those noncitizens crossed the board or how long they've been in this country:

On 27 September, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) released figures showing it had recorded 662,566 "noncitizens with criminal histories" - which includes those currently detained by the agency and those not detained.

It says 435,719 of them are convicted criminals and 226,847 have pending criminal charges.

The figures go up to July 2024 but ICE does not say when the cases date back to or when these people arrived in the US.


www.bbc.com

#19 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-28 06:02 PM | Reply

One quite interesting aspect of all the hatred tossed at immigrants by the right is...

The legal Haitian immigrants that have boosted the Springfield, Ohio economy and have contributed to the economic well-being of the area....

They pay Social Security taxes on their wages, yet they may never be able to benefit from those taxes they pay on their wages.



#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-28 06:25 PM | Reply

The data shows that, among those not in detention, there are 425,431 convicted criminals and 222,141 with pending criminal charges. The data does not reveal how many of those criminals are recent arrivals.

For comparison, in August 2016, toward the end of the Obama administration, ICE said there were about 2.2 million noncitizens on the non-detained docket and about 368,574 were convicted criminals.

I did find out how many non-detained immigrants there were at the end of 2020, but I can't find any stats on how many of them were convicted criminals, although it stands to reason some must have been just as some were in 2016 and 2024:

Additionally, beyond managing ICE's detained population, ICE ERO also manages nondetained cases. In FY 2020, the number of aliens on ICE ERO's non-detained national docket remained consistent with FY 2019 at 3.26 million cases.

www.ice.gov

#21 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-28 07:41 PM | Reply

Greatest crime story ever.
#8 | Posted by oneironaut

Nope. One of the biggest whoppers Trump/GOP has told:

Fact check: To attack Harris, Trump falsely describes new stats on immigrants and homicide

www.cnn.com

#22 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-29 10:06 AM | Reply

"I did find out how many non-detained immigrants there were at the end of 2020, but I can't find any stats on how many of them were convicted criminals"

CNN couldn't find them either. I wonder if the Trump administration had them deep sixed somehow?:

CNN could not immediately find public statistics on how many people with criminal convictions were on the non-detained docket during Trump's presidency. But there are public statistics from just before and just after his presidency--and those statistics, which we'll discuss later in this article, make clear that Trump, too, presided over a non-detained docket that included hundreds of thousands of people with criminal convictions.

#23 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-29 10:17 AM | Reply

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