Sunday, October 20, 2024

Guardrails Will Avert Manipulation of Election Outcome

Richard H. Pildes: Partisan actors might try various ploys to manipulate the election outcome -- but guardrails are already in place to prevent these partisan efforts from succeeding.

Posted by et_al at 12:30 PM | 25 COMMENTS | permalink

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Tamping down more hand wringing about the Buffoon losing the election.

As Election Day draws near, anxieties are running high among Democrats about how partisan actors backing Donald Trump might seek to steal the 2024 election. Trump himself has commented that "the only way we're gonna lose" is "if they cheat," raising the specter of another attempt to upend the election results like the country saw in 2020. The danger is real, but much of the speculation about mechanisms Trump or his allies might use to overturn election results risks unnecessarily raising the anxiety level of voters. To be sure, partisan actors might well try various ploys to manipulate the outcome, particularly if the election hinges on one or two states. But there are significant legal, institutional, and political guardrails already in place to thwart these partisan efforts.

A recent essay Neal Katyal authored in the New York Times is a good illustration of these anxieties. Katyal raised several nightmare scenarios for "a potential election crisis" under which, in his view, corrupt partisan actors could seek to deprive Vice President Kamala Harris of a lawful victory, if in fact she wins the election. But in each of the scenarios Katyal raises, the guardrails that are already in place should temper these concerns.

There follows a point by point rebuttal of Katyal's NYT op-ed.

#1 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-18 06:52 PM

Thanks for posting this as a separate thread.

If I may repeat a comment I made in the other thread...
-----

Oh, I agree, there are guardrails.

But, how long will it take for those guardrails to push the errant vehicle back on the road? Days? Weeks, (gasp) Months?

And what about the confusion that the MAGA social media disinformation machine will sow during that time?

As I said previously, the MAGA social media disinformation machine seemed to be using hurricanes Helene and Milton as a beta-test for what they want to do for the election results.

So, yes, I completely agree with your comment about their being guardrails in place.

The question I ask is twofold: how long will the guardrails take to work? What happens until they might work? (and I say "might" because by the time they work, it may be too late)


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-18 07:11 PM

How long will it take? Use 2020 as a template. Most if, not all of the legal challenges, were resolved well before any certification deadlines. I've read that since then some states have put in place procedures to further expedite such challenges. That's the best answer I can give considering "how long" depends on variable across 50 states that I'm not going to look up.

What happens as the process plays out? Again, use 2020 as a template. The loonies will be loony but that will, again, have no effect on how the legal process plays out.

The process was not "too late" last time around. There's no reason to think it will be this time, unless you are a media company trying to sell advertising.

#3 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-18 07:38 PM

How long will it take? Use 2020 as a template. [...]
#3 | Posted by et_al

Nah. Use 2000 as a template.

Only reason it didn't play out that way in 2020 was because of Trump's incompetence. The MAGAts have their plans down this go-round.

#4 | Posted by censored at 2024-10-18 07:45 PM

@#3 ... Use 2020 as a template. ...

I'm not convinced that is a valid comparison.

A lot of things have changed since 2020.

For one, people interested in disrupting the election have learned what did not work in 2020.

OK, that aside ...

Let me take a different approach and ask you a question....

How long do you think it may take for the outcome of the election to provide a definitive answer regarding who should be inaugurated on January 20, 2025?



#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-18 07:51 PM

"The process was not "too late" last time around."

Because Pence.

All that's needed is a VP who'll try to throw it to the HoR, and a compliant SCOTUS already used to contorting logic.

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-18 07:58 PM

@#6 ... All that's needed is a VP who'll try to throw it to the HoR, ...

In this case, the VP is VP Harris, one of the candidates.

So, will that result in more lawsuits questioning the outcome?


If so, how long will it take to resolve those lawsuits?

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-18 08:05 PM

@#1

While I do greatly appreciate the legal opinions you proffer, the aspect that concerns me about those legal aspects (in case you have not noticed) is...

What happens when they are challenged?

So, I agree with you about guard rails.

I also agree with you about the rule of law.

But the area where I diverge seems to be the legal proceedings to get to the end results above.

I do notice that you always seem to go quiet when I bring up that aspect, and you likely have a valid reason to do so.

But the silence does not negate my concerns.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-18 08:51 PM

All that's needed is a VP who'll try to throw it to the HoR ...

Not as informed as I thought. The ECRA eliminated that potential legal strategy. VP duties are "solely ministerial." www.ncsl.org Then there's the partisan political aspect.

Still not past; yeah whatever, been there done that, didn't work then, won't now.

#9 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-18 11:20 PM

#8

I don't know what to say. I assume folks comprehend a lawsuit is filed and is adjudicated in the normal coarse of business. That normal case is truncated with most post election legal challenges because of certification deadlines. Here are canvassing, certification, etc. deadlines for all the states and territories. (I did the search, I ain't readin' 'em fer ya.)

But the area where I diverge seems to be the legal proceedings to get to the end results above.

What about the "legal prceedings?"

#10 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-18 11:37 PM

Here are canvassing, certification, etc. deadlines for all the states and territories. www.ncsl.org

#11 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-18 11:40 PM

Bury MAGATs in a landslide.

Period.

#12 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-10-19 02:30 PM

"guardrails are already in place to prevent these partisan efforts from succeeding"

At this point I'll believe it when I see it.

But I won't be surprised if the election takes until December to decide.

It's happened before. (See the 2000 United States presidential election)

We are primed for Deja Vu happening all over again.

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-20 11:05 AM

Elections experts say it is possible for an ineligible voter to accidentally register to vote at the DMV, which could be a "mistake" by the applicant or the clerk.

As long as they fill out the form attesting to their citizenship, they can vote.

-Now that's some top level security!

#14 | Posted by commnotes at 2024-10-20 01:19 PM

www.msn.com

Michigan, a closely watched battleground state, has "one of the most bloated voter rolls in the nation" with 500,000 more registered voters than there are Michiganders of voting age,...

...since 2019 her office has removed about 800,000 people from the statewide voter roll and that another 360,000 would be removed in 2025.

#15 | Posted by commnotes at 2024-10-20 01:27 PM

The elections are being manipulated on the front-end by bogus registrations, during election by no ID requirements, and on the back-end with machine programming shenanigans and fill-in ballot creation.

Of course there's no evidence, just like there's no ID requirement or proof of citizenship requirement.
It's designed to preclude verification either way. Show me some 'evidence' that there are only citizens voting. You can't, see?

#16 | Posted by commnotes at 2024-10-20 01:38 PM

@#11 ... Here are canvassing, certification, etc. deadlines for all the states and territories. ...

And what happens if, say, a state board does not certify the results in time?

Does a legal process start? If so, how long does it take?

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-20 01:40 PM

It will be fine. Stop the unnecessary fearmongering.

We've got the same SCROTUS today that we had in 2020, the same SCROTUS that rejected the idiotic challenges last time around in short order. They're NOT set to do something different this time.

#18 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-10-20 01:46 PM

Of course there's no evidence

#16 | Posted by commnotes

But I'm really afraid you're going to need some.

Really; truly. And it breaks my heart.

#19 | Posted by Zed at 2024-10-20 01:56 PM

The elections are being manipulated on the front-end by bogus registrations

#16 | Posted by commnotes

Since evidence is not required, then I'm free to say that Trump is doing it. Right?

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2024-10-20 01:57 PM

"...just like there's no ID requirement or proof of citizenship requirement." -

#16 | Posted by commnotes at 2024-10-20 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Is that statement true?

Which, of course, completely overlooks the fact that a person must have ID or proof of citizenship when registering to vote.

Just another example of a MAGAt #4. Lying-by-omission.

#21 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-20 02:12 PM

#17

Good God. You're worse than f*****' Snoofy. www.google.com

#22 | Posted by et_al at 2024-10-20 02:38 PM

@#22 ... Good God. ...

So, according to the article, a legal process starts, resulting in possible delay.

Once again I will say that my concern is not that the results do not eventually be certified, but the delay and confusion that may occur.

Will the results eventually be certified? My opinion is yes.

But what about the delay and confusion until that result occurs?

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-20 02:48 PM

You're worse than f*****' Snoofy

Speaking of Snoofy.

Hope he's alright and just not visiting the DR anymore.

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-10-20 02:53 PM

@#24

At one point he said that he is taking time off until after the election.

#25 | Posted by lamplighter at 2024-10-20 03:03 PM

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