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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, June 07, 2024

Bruce Maiman: I don't believe that all people are dumb. I believe that some folks are unaware or willfully or unwillingly ignorant and that's just plain stupid. Go to YouTube. Type "Americans are stupid" in the search box, but if you laugh, be advised: Surveys repeatedly show that ignorance, willful or otherwise, is widespread in American history, basic civics and current events.

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Unawareness, either due to incuriousness, obliviousness or laziness, seems a microcosm of who we are today, a society that, as it moved forward, became dumber - OK, less informed.

A scary thought here is that those folks may not even know how unaware they are. Instead of willfully ignorant, a choice, they're unwittingly ignorant - ignorant of their ignorance. Or, ignorance is bliss. And again, not necessarily because they're stupid.

Funny, one of my conservative acquaintances couldn't resist trashing Biden's executive orders to address the border. He texted, "It's official, as suspected. Joe's move on the border crisis = strictly to try and get votes come Nov. If it wasn't election year he wouldn't have done anything."

I asked: How is that any different than Trump getting lawmakers to quash a bipartisan border bill earlier this year to prevent Biden from getting an election-year win so Trump would have a campaign issue?

His response: "Because Joe has to go."

Classic invincible ignorance fallacy. That's the fallacy of defending one's position while refusing to consider immutable contradictory facts to the contrary. "I don't care what the experts say; no one is going to convince me that I'm wrong." Sometimes, it's just, "Fake news!!"

Sound familiar?

Here is the fine point of it: Our political culture is a reflection of our general culture. If we don't know what our Constitution says about the separation of powers, if fully half of us mistakenly believe Trump was better at handling immigration without considering how the pandemic slowed border migration to a trickle, or if faithful legions continue to insist that the 2020 election was stolen, it affects how we decide to govern ourselves.

Bad enough we forget the past; worse still is when we refuse to comprehend the present and its consequences for the future.

What matters most is not what we think but how we think.

Will we as a nation learn to dismiss tonsorial talking-point artists and shrill performance politicians and relearn to revere the learned? Will we ever tire of empty sloganeering and yearn for reflective thought and honest, intelligent dialogue?

Not in the age of Trump and probably never since the very existence of today's GOP is based on voter ignorance, anger, and outrage mostly directed at fellow citizens who dare to want a more inclusive public and private sphere than the rabblerousers.

For those of us who were paying attention back in the mid 2010s, our predicament today has been exacerbated by Russia's ongoing destabilization of democracy worldwide. And in America they particularly found fertile mental ground to plant their flags of distrust and propaganda through the use of the rightwing mediasphere created after the fall of the Fairness Doctrine and the rise of AM radio as the home for half-a-century's worth of grievance towards both Civil and Equal Rights for those groups of Americans previously disenfranchised.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 05:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"That unawareness, either due to incuriousness, obliviousness or laziness, seems a microcosm of who we are today, a society that, as it moved forward, became dumber " OK, less informed.

A scary thought here is that those folks may not even know how unaware they are. Instead of willfully ignorant, a choice, they're unwittingly ignorant " ignorant of their ignorance. Or, ignorance is bliss. And again, not necessarily because they're stupid."

Oh for ----- sakes....talk about being selfish. Not everyone is required to give a ---- about everything you worry about all day every day. BTW, I'm not talking to Tony...I'm talking to the author.

Some of the happiest, successful, productive people I know are people who the author would consider "oblivious, lazy, or stupid".

They are simply not interested in swimming through the river of sewage that is national politics.

And people who ARE all about national politics????? They aren't the beacons of intelligence they think they are. They're just obsessed. And they likely have not a clue what's going on their own back yard. With their school boards, city councils, etc.....they are stupid enough to think that stuff doesn't affect their lives as much as who lives at 1600 Penn.

You can only spin so many plates at once.

and life is short enough.

grow the ---- up.

#2 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 05:44 PM | Reply

Ignorance is bliss.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-06 06:10 PM | Reply

Beverly crawls out from under her MAGAT loving rock to sing the praises of morons.

Great.

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-06-06 06:20 PM | Reply

#2

Did you read the entire article Ebs? The author in no way makes any case that every single American should be immersed in the daily minutiae of politics. His point is the opposite. Many Americans not only don't pay attention to what happens in the political sphere, the majority aren't even knowledgeable about the basic tenets of the US Constitution including their own rights and responsibilities as citizens.

Our democracy depends upon its citizens knowing and understanding the basics of governing and government. Poll after poll shows that this understanding simply doesn't exist anymore as it did generations ago.

In a 2009 survey of 1,000 adults by the American Revolution Center, a nonpartisan educational group, 60% knew that reality TV's Jon and Kate Gosselin had eight kids. But more than one-third didn't know in which century the American Revolution had occurred, and half believed that either the War of 1812 or the Civil War preceded it.

Ninety percent of those survey participants said knowledge of the American Revolution and its principles is extremely important, yet 83% failed a basic test on knowledge of our founding, with an average score of 44%.

A dozen years later, the Institute for Citizens and Scholars, also a nonpartisan educational institution, found that while two-thirds of participants could name all three branches of government, nearly one-fifth couldn't name any.

Only 1 in 20 could name all five freedoms protected by the First Amendment (speech, religion, the right to assembly, freedom of the press, and the right to petition the government). Over a fifth said the First Amendment protected the right to bear arms. (Nope. Second Amendment.)

How can you cherish or work to protect freedoms if you don't know them? How does one hold the elected accountable if one does not understand the nature and prerogatives of each branch and how the power of each is kept in check?

Over half said Facebook is required to let all Americans express themselves freely on its platform under the First Amendment. (It is not.)

You want worse? A 2006 National Geographic-Roper Survey of 18-to-24-year-olds found that only 14% of participants could find Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and Israel on a map - a map, by the way, that had the countries lettered on it.

The article isn't about internalizing each and every political machination each and every day. It's about our lack of teaching and reinforcing the fundamental knowledge of citizenship grade school children used to learn. People shout on and on about their "rights" yet most cannot even name them, much less understand the nuance and complicity centuries of jurisprudence has added to the mix. Nor do the majority of Americans ever mention their personal responsibilities as citizens - such as garnering a rudimentary understanding of salient facts and pressing issues before choosing which candidates to support.

The very complaints about our current national politics are based on the fact that people who should know better have allowed them to fall into such pathetic condition - nominally because they can count on lemming-like tribal behavior even in the face of criminal convictions and outright fraudulent actions.

This topic comes back to the words of Ben Franklin uttered at the birth of this nation as one governed by laws and regulations agreed upon by the governed: "It's a republic, if you can keep it." Keeping it demands an informed citizenry, something current research shows that we no longer have.

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 06:22 PM | Reply

"the majority aren't even knowledgeable about the basic tenets of the US Constitution including their own rights and responsibilities as citizens."

that's been going on for decades BEFORE the author was born.

That's not what's eating at him and what he's bothered by as being so uninformed.

It's about ..........Trump.

There are dumbfuqs everywhere. But they were dumbfuq's before Trump. This author doesn't think so. He believes ignorance started with Trump.

Maybe he should consider himself in the dumbfuq crowd he's referring to.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 06:32 PM | Reply

"Our democracy depends upon its citizens knowing and understanding the basics of governing and government."

says who?

Seriously......says who? when were we so all "knowing and understanding of the basics of governing and government"

when was that?

careful here....you're about to pick up a MAGA hat and wear it.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 06:34 PM | Reply

"Beverly crawls out from under her MAGAT loving rock to sing the praises of morons"

People like you ARE THE REASON smarter and more productive people than you'll ever be don't bother with national politics.

#8 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 06:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"the majority aren't even knowledgeable about the basic tenets of the US Constitution including their own rights and responsibilities as citizens."

Thats not new, I think people started tuning out after Nixon disgraced himself.

What is new is that dumb people can find each other on their smartphone internet now.

#9 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2024-06-06 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Now that the media is completely commercialized, and news is for profit not for enlightenment... and now that much of the news is partisan rhetoric rather than journalistic and historic fact, the old saws from the old anti-democracy writer H.L. Menken is more apt than ever:

"The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth."

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

"No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

more

www.bookey.app

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2024-06-06 06:38 PM | Reply

-What is new is that dumb people can find each other on their smartphone internet now.

technology is a factor. you can filter out important information for whatever you want. You can't be forcefed news and information and facts. replace it with garbage in....which is leads to garbage out.

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 06:39 PM | Reply

"You can't be forcefed news and information and facts."

That makes it worse.

Most people line up at the trough with the Facts or Alternative Facts they prefer.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-06 06:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's about ..........Trump.

Yes and no. The first polling cited was from 2009 - when Barack Obama was President and before Trump entered the political zeitgeist.

However, I'll concede that Trump has become the leader of the under and uniformed - raking in billions of dollars and filling his own bank accounts with dubious fundraising pleas to assuage his endless grievances.

So in no way does this author think this started with Trump. It didn't. As a matter of fact, the final paragraph implies that we as Boomers bear responsibility for allowing this to happen on our watch. And I tend to agree. We allowed the unimportant primacy over the important. The health of our democracy was our duty to protect and nurture like any healthy mature plant passed from each generation to the next. We let the diseases of disinterest, willful ignorance, and neglect take root and now our plant is in critical condition, possibly terminally. We have no one to blame but ourselves should we lose what Franklin wondered if we'd be able to keep.

#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 07:10 PM | Reply


Our democracy depends upon its citizens knowing and understanding the basics of governing and government.

This is a problem of the education system. I would argue that the knowledge has decreased as the test scores have decreased. My daughter doesn't have a civics course.

The schools in the US have exchanged learning important ideas, with trivial facts.

By Abandoning Civics, Colleges Helped Create the Culture Wars.
www.nytimes.com

I am sure you'll disagree, but the evidence is overwhelming.

#14 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-06-06 07:11 PM | Reply

I am sure you'll disagree, but the evidence is overwhelming.

I don't disagree at all! But we may disagree as to why this has happened, and to me it's an "us" problem, not necessarily a partisan one.

To me, we deemphasized the things that don't specifically lead to future financial success trying to insure that kids grow into the gainfully employed instead of welfare recipients. I think civics became like art classes. Cute, but not necessary for most. And let's not forget that we can't even agree on what American history is anymore particularly if it shows white Americans in a less than positive light for coming to this continent and eventually taking it over by hook or crook from the true first Americans - the indigenous peoples who were already here. Nope, too controversial now that Black Americans, Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans (et._al.), have the opportunity of truthfully recounting their own unique experiences as immigrants to America, none of them based on being the oppressors instead of the oppressed. But that's now considered woke.

So civics has become just another third rail that we intentionally avoided too much to our own detriment.

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 07:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We have no one to blame but ourselves should we lose what Franklin wondered if we'd be able to keep.
#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 07:10 PM

So, I personally should accept any blame for Citizens United? Granted "Citizen" is in the title..

It's strange that Fox is still permitted to exist as a non-stop disinformation campaign. Again, we are what we "keep"?

#16 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-06-06 07:41 PM | Reply

#16

I couldn't agree more. The most frustrating thing of all to me is that this has never been an argument about "left" or "right," it's always been a disagreement about right and wrong. All I want is for people to viscerally and internally understand the objective truths, facts, and history that has brought us to today. I don't want to tell others how they should feel about those things, simply that we can agree that x or y actually happened, and z came out of the events.

The invincible ignorance fallacy has been subsumed into today's GOP's DNA. It is impossible to have an intelligent discourse or negotiation when one side refuses to accept documented and annotated facts and truths while simultaneously espousing fantasies and embellishments untethered to reality.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-06-06 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#8 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I could buy you 10 times over, you Kansas ----.

#18 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-06-06 08:36 PM | Reply

#14 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

They taught civics in jr. high and high school, Russian stooge.

Go ---- yourself, you phony -----

#19 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-06-06 08:37 PM | Reply

Legallybeenrapedonthrretort,

I don't know how many times I assaulted you under your previous handles but you deserved it all.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-06 10:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Two triggers, one thread

What's with eberly's thin skin?

The dude must be translucent with skin so thin!

This jackass is compensating, but for for how many things is the real question

#21 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2024-06-06 10:36 PM | Reply

#20

Assaulted? You're a douche. A flea is more dangerous.

#22 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-06-07 01:32 AM | Reply

-Assaulted?

what other excuse can you muster for being what you are....which is a 2-bit spit wad thrower who can't come within a hundred miles of actually discussing an issue.

You're not capable of doing it, are you?

Neither is Chieftut.

which is why you both have changed names more times than you can count.

Hell, it's possible you ARE the same person.

which is funny...with all the bitching about Bellringer being Jeff....right in front of the same posters bleeding out over that stands ---- for brains morons like you and they KNOW you guys have changed handles probably 10+ times and they don't care.

And why is that?

Because you guys don't matter to anybody.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2024-06-07 09:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

^
So fragile

#24 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2024-06-07 12:00 PM | Reply

Like welfare costs to inner cities?

#25 | Posted by THEBULL at 2024-06-08 01:51 AM | Reply

See, the problem is that you ------- think anything that any of us say matters because other people can read/hear what we say and think now.

Remember way back when if you wanted to "put your opinion out there" you had to write a letter and physically mail it and all that?

And then if the editor you sent it to thought you were retarded, like many of the folks who were trained in their capitalist designed public schools to be, they could just throw the letter away.

Yeah.

Any chance we can we go back to that??

#26 | Posted by tres_flechas at 2024-06-09 12:26 AM | Reply

First off there is nothing NPR says or publishes that is objective. It has been vetted and approved by Democrats. The barometer of truth and news was set in Oct 2020 with Biden laptop lies.

There was a study done that 87 % of NPR employees are left wing Ds. 0 Repubs. It is is a propaganda organization subsidized by taxpayers. It is very similar to public schools where they teach boys to be girls and other controversial Dem stuff and union of group think and political activism.

Democrats would never win elections if not for rigged biased media and journalism schools. That DEI and DEMOCTACY they like touted never includes political demographics.

www.msn.com

#27 | Posted by Robson at 2024-06-09 07:50 AM | Reply

#27 | POSTED BY ROBSON

When people speak of ignorant Americans, they are talking about people like you. Your above post, which is frankly stupid, underlines this.

But I don't underestimate you, ROBSON. The stupid are dangerous en masse. There are a lot of people like you.

#28 | Posted by Zed at 2024-06-09 08:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ignorant voters are why we have this disastrous corpse currently occupying the White House.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-06-09 11:05 AM | Reply

#29

Says the -------- who used ivermectin to turn his own father into a corpse.

#30 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-06-09 11:19 AM | Reply

Ignorant voters are why we have this disastrous corpse currently occupying the White House.
#29 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

^
Don't be a Johnson, vote for Johnson!

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-06-09 11:22 AM | Reply

#29 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Did I mention that you people are dangerous in groups?

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2024-06-09 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's Ignorant!
southpark.cc.com

#33 | Posted by look_inward at 2024-06-09 12:33 PM | Reply

There was a study done that 87 % of NPR employees are left wing Ds. 0 Repubs.

#27 | POSTED BY ROBSON AT 2024-06-09 07:50 AM | FLAG:

Wtf is the other 13% then?

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-06-09 12:43 PM | Reply

Are we really going out on the limb that says the parties that can't get more than a combined 3% of the vote are 13% of NPR employees? That's statistically implausible.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-06-09 12:44 PM | Reply

"state-affiliated media"

#36 | Posted by look_inward at 2024-06-09 02:44 PM | Reply

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