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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, February 07, 2024

Johnny Harris and Binyamin Appelbaum write that in most countries filing taxes is free and easy. In the United States it's a billion dollar business. They introduce you to the companies that are profiting off of American's paying their taxes.

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In the United States it's a billion dollar business. They introduce you to the companies that are profiting off of American's paying their taxes.

$1B divided by millions of returns is not what it used to be. And most complicated taxes that can't be filed with EZ-forms and requiring professional help are from private SMBs/LLCs etc., same as in most other "developed countries."

Yes, it should be easy to file taxes.

It mostly is, for most households, with simple finances that don't involve tax-preferred strategies and special financial/accounting vehicles.

www.marketwatch.com - Most Americans feel they pay too much in taxes, AP-NORC poll finds - AP, Jan. 28, 2024

And yes, it should be free.

Why? You can ask IRS to prepare and calculate your taxes for free. Nobody is forced to hire an accountant to prepare and file tax return. People who choose to pay expect to pay "few hundred" dollars/euros/pounds/pesos to save more than a "few hundred" dollars/euros/pounds/pesos to take advantage of special incentives - like Earned Income Tax Credit or HSA or children education funds or deferred tax accounts etc.

That's how it works in the rest of the developed world, and it could very easily work that way here, too. It is absurd that America's tax system is so antiquated and complicated that most people must pay someone else to help them pay the government.

Not "must" - choose. And as more automation software becomes available, more free or cheaper services (for less complicated returns) are becoming the norm.

Could the tax system be a lot simpler than it is today? Sure, but Congress critters existence demands it to be more complicated because of generally higher tax rates and supposed "loopholes" that otherwise would prevent some / certain businesses and/or industries from investing in the USA. Just ask CFO of any midsize company.
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#1 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-02-07 11:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Most Americans feel they pay too much in taxes"

Must be the first group in history to feel this way.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 12:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You can ask IRS to prepare and calculate your taxes for free."

Some people can.

time.com
As of right now, Direct File is only available in states that have, or were able to develop, their own state tax filing solution. That means the pilot program is limited to residents who live in: Arizona, California, Florida, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, or Wyoming.

Direct File is also only available to taxpayers with certain types of income, and who are "claiming limited credits and deductions," according to the IRS. That means that taxpayers who itemize deductions, have business or gig economy income, and claim credits like the child and dependent care credit, will not be able to use Direct File.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 03:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Now if the all States would offer the same service.

In many states you still have to pay so, the work and cost is still there.

#4 | Posted by bat4255 at 2024-02-08 08:15 AM | Reply

I agree with everything said ...even.... lord help me....with snoofy ( lol )

but come on....the IRS is always the villain.

cross them and find out.

#5 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-02-08 09:18 AM | Reply

"Cross them"

You mean evade taxes. Yes they don't like that.

Most agents I have come across are just people who are trying to do their job the best they can in a fair and reasonable way.

Now I have had a few clients that wanted to play games with the IRS such as making appointments and then not show up, give them false information, start screaming at them in meetings, etc. When you waste the agents time they are going to take an adversarial position.

I had one person what wanted to hire me to help them with the IRS. They were a 1099 contractor (no withholding and subject to self employment taxes) for banks maintaining foreclosed on properties. They kept no records of their expenses or mileage, ignored letters and notices, when the IRS finally did manage to find them they asked for a list of banks they were currently working for...the person thought it was "cute" to give them a list of banks that they never worked with. I informed him they just committed perjury to a treasury official (a felony) and that I could not help them...they needed an attorney now. His complaint was that an attorney wanted thousands of dollars in retainers to represent them. Nothing like advertising that I don't like paying for people to fix the problems I made for myself.

#6 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-02-08 10:05 AM | Reply

"Most Americans feel they pay too much in taxes"

I can't blame them. The 2017 tax scam lowered the tax rate for billionaires to the point where they are now paying a LOWER tax rate than the middle class. First time in history.

However, most Americans are too stupid to understand what their tax dollars pay for. They are lead to believe that the majority of their tax money is spent on welfare for "lazy" people when in fact the bulk of the money is used to build weapons to blow up people around the world.

Most americans like knowing that their investments in the 401k are protected by the SEC, their prescriptions are safe due to the FDA, their food is safe due to the USDA, their roads are paved, their property is protected by police and fire, their travel is safe due to the FAA, their bank accounts are safe because of the FDIC, etc.

Most people just think that they should get these things for free.

#7 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-02-08 10:15 AM | Reply

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#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 12:53 AM | Reply
Must be the first group in history to feel this way.

Wouldn't know if it's the first time. But if it is, "there is no time like now." (someone here should be able to provide Youtube link.)

FTA: |-------
... poll from the University of Chicago Harris School of Public Policy and The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

Two-thirds of U.S. taxpayers say they spend "too much" on federal income taxes... About 7 in 10 say the same about local property taxes, while roughly 6 in 10 feel that way about state sales tax.

... The poll found that few U.S. adults have a high level of confidence that the institutions that ultimately use their tax dollars - whether the federal government or local school districts - spend those taxes in the best interest of "people like them." But people tend to trust governing bodies closer to home with their tax dollars slightly more: 16% are extremely or very confident in their local school district, compared to 6% for the federal government.

Adults who are 60 and older are more likely than younger adults to perceive taxes, generally, as fair.

... overall, public opinion about taxes and trust in government has declined. ... but the public has long typically trusted local government more than the federal government.
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#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 03:03 AM
time.com
As of right now, Direct File is only available in states that have, or were able to develop, their own state tax filing solution. ...

You didn't read further than that?
FTA:
|-------
What is IRS Free File?
Direct File is not to be confused with IRS Free File, a separate federal tax software that allows eligible taxpayers to file their federal tax returns for free. That program, which began in 2003, is part of a public-private partnership between the IRS and tax preparation companies, and provides taxpayers with two options. ...

Taxpayers who make an adjusted gross income of $79,000 or less can use the Guided Tax Software, which "lets the software do the work" after a user answers simple questions. The software also allows users to file taxes in Spanish.

Taxpayers can also choose the free file fillable forms option, which provides general instructions on how to file taxes, instead of completing the work for a taxpayer. ...
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And from IRS website www.irs.gov - IRS Free File: Do your taxes for free
|-------
IRS Free File lets qualified taxpayers prepare and file federal income tax returns online using guided tax preparation software. It's safe, easy and no cost to you. Those who don't qualify can still use Free File Fillable Forms.

Individual tax filers, regardless of income, can use IRS Free File to electronically request an automatic tax-filing extension.

Option 1: Guided Tax Software
(for Adjusted Gross Income(AGI) $79,000 or less)
Let the software do the work ...

Option 2: Fillable Forms
You do all the work using form instructions
Available for any income level ...
-------|

Like I said, it's not a "must" - it's a choice... If you have a simple tax return, with few deductions, you can do it yourself, use free or cheap software or free or cheap tax services. If you want it to be more complicated due to your chosen structure - you pay a pittance to get it done by educated professionals, who are doing for... gash, a p-p-p-profit.

Certainly, far from the "crisis" or burden that's "different from the rest of the developed world" that authors of the original NYT article claimed.
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#8 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-02-08 10:30 AM | Reply

Option 2: Fillable Forms
You do all the work using form instructions
Available for any income level ...

^
That sounds like work.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 10:44 AM | Reply

"Certainly, far from the "crisis" or burden that's "different from the rest of the developed world" that authors of the original NYT article claimed."

How much work do they have to do in those other countries? Is the burden different?

Holler back when you have my answer.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-08 10:46 AM | Reply

Years ago I was leaving home for the office one morning near Boston when there was a knock at the door.

Opening it I found an skinny red-headed Irish kid in a suit with a briefcase, early 20's, and sporting the biggest shiner you'd ever want to see.

He introduced himself as I remembered my forgotten appointment that morning with the IRS.

It looked like he'd had a really bad night, and I never got much more than a mumbled excuse about the black eye, but we went through my filing paperwork, and he turned out to be a fair guy.

But, I really had my doubts about how this was going to go when I first saw him, though, lol.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-08 10:59 AM | Reply

Oh boy, technology once again proves how incapable so many people are of personal responsibility. Prior to the Internet, doing your taxes was a much harder situation. But now that people have enjoyed the convenience so much, they feel they are entitled to getting things for free. You are paying for the convenience. If you don't like it, you can still do your taxes manually using forms available at the post office and other government locations and it costs you nothing. Problem solved.

#12 | Posted by humtake at 2024-02-08 11:50 AM | Reply

Six MLPs generating K-1s, two foreign [Canadian] companies with their tax withholding that needs to be 'recouped', dividends and distributions, Capital gains with some offset by selling off some stocks losses - so I will continue to utilize tax professionals services.

#13 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-02-08 03:05 PM | Reply

the IRS is always the villain.

cross them and find out.

#5 | Posted by shrimptacodan

Depends on how rich you are.

Which dems want to fix. Repubs dont.

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-02-08 08:35 PM | Reply

The rich have the benefit of more tax loopholes and
more tax accountants and tax lawyers.

The average Middle Class Joe, does not.

As a govy worker my paycheck gets absolutely
raped. But I grin and bear it, and pay all my
taxes (almost 15k in Fed alone last year), because
I know, that with my insurance, and my pension, I
have it better than 90% of Americans who still have
to 'earn a living'.

Not counting those w 'inherited wealth'. Those
trust fund babies out there.

#15 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-02-09 11:26 AM | Reply

"Most Americans feel they pay too much in taxes"

Most Americans don't pay enough. Especially at the top.

#16 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 12:50 PM | Reply

the IRS is always the villain.
cross them and find out.
#5 | Posted by shrimptacodan

Stop trying to cheat and you shouldn't have a problem.

#17 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 12:51 PM | Reply

-Most Americans don't pay enough. Especially at the top.

Well the top is not most.

So who, other than the top, doesn't pay enough?

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2024-02-09 01:28 PM | Reply

#18

It's difficult to pin down exact details. But IMO there should be some increases for everyone in the top +/-60 percent. But taxes for the top 10 percent should be raised substantially. And even more for the top 2 percent.

We cannot balance the national budget by spending cuts alone. Contrary to what CON's seem to think, it costs money to run a country. And those costs will go up every year.

Is that clear enough?

Every once in a while I like to post one of these internet challenges at balancing the budget. This particular one may not be the best, but most of them give you some idea of what would be necessary. And what's necessary is rarely popular with anyone.

Federal Balancing Act 2023:
An Interactive Budget Simulation

Here are links to others if you feel like checking them out.

#19 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 02:18 PM | Reply

www.google.com

#20 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 02:18 PM | Reply

I'm not happy about higher taxes either. But I still think they are necessary.

#21 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 02:23 PM | Reply

Fair enough, Whatsleft.

I would challenge you on the top 10% part....I wouldn't do anything to anybody outside the top 5%.

You can be earning $140K and make the top 10% but a lot of those people live in the highest cost of living areas....and $140K in NYC doesn't amount to much. I don't think we should be hammering those people with higher federal taxes.

I think the threshold should be above $500K before you start hitting folks with higher federal taxes. Again, because so many live in Cities with high cost of living and higher local taxes.....I wouldn't start increasing taxes on folks below $500K

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2024-02-09 02:34 PM | Reply

And BTW, my total yearly insurance bills are FAR higher than my total Federal taxes. And those bills increase at a rate well above inflation.

So why isn't insurance under more scrutiny?

THERE's something everyone should be able to get behind being frustrated about!

#23 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 02:34 PM | Reply

"I wouldn't start increasing taxes on folks below $500K"

Interesting. That's a pretty liberal view.

#24 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-02-09 02:37 PM | Reply

-So why isn't insurance under more scrutiny?

It falls under more scrutiny than most people would ever know.

all rate increases have to approved by your state's insurance department.

Same goes for endorsements that reduce coverage such as higher deductibles, exclusions, or any limitations that weren't on the policy before.

#25 | Posted by eberly at 2024-02-09 02:41 PM | Reply

-That's a pretty liberal view.

despite the unnecessary arguing about taxation on this board, the facts are fairly clear on who pays taxes and how much.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2024-02-09 02:44 PM | Reply

"the facts are fairly clear on who pays taxes and how much."

The progressive Federal Income Tax, probably.
The bulk of the tax burden, not so much 'round these parts!

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-09 04:07 PM | Reply

"the facts are fairly clear on who pays taxes and how much."

True. But there are larger aspects of the equation that are always ignored.

For example, payroll taxes represent a 2% bond with an average 25 year maturity. That's a lousy average for an investment, relatively speaking.

Meanwhile, and upfront tax cut represents 6%-8% compounded constructive use of the money. Average that out over 25 years, and the tax cut is MUCH more attractive than the payroll tax investment.

Where is that in the equation of who pays?

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-02-09 04:15 PM | Reply

^#28
"MUCH more attractive"

...should be much more valuable, to the tune of 3-4 times as much.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-02-09 08:56 PM | Reply

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