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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, April 25, 2024

The Supreme Court is hearing oral arguments in the blockbuster case over whether former President Donald Trump may claim immunity in special counsel Jack Smith's federal election subversion case.

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Live at the thread link.

Currently, Trump lawyer getting slapped around, lol.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-25 10:42 AM | Reply

This is crazy listening!

#2 | Posted by YAV at 2024-04-25 10:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The rwing justices don't want to talk about THIS case, they want to talk about abstractions on what might happen in other cases.

They also want to paint scenarios, like, well what if the Pres held a Civil Rights sit in and that impeded the Electoral count.... ROFL!

These people are bought and are staying bought on the Right.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-25 11:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Oral arguments suggest that the Supreme Court may not totally resolve the Trump immunity case
From CNN's Tierney Sneed

The Supreme Court hearing so far is a mixed bag for both sides.

On the one hand, its seems clear that the court is unwilling to dismiss the case against Donald Trump outright, as he ostensibly is asking the justices to do, based on his sweeping theory of presidential immunity.

On the other hand, several justices appear skeptical of how the special counsel is framing the case.

It's possible they will render a ruling that could require several more months of lower court proceedings before the case against Trump can go to trial. That could put the possibility of a pre-election trial fully out of reach, raising the possibility that Trump will be reelected and make the case against him go away.

Updates at the link

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-25 11:57 AM | Reply

Supreme Court doesn't seem willing to give Trump absolutely immunity, but may not immediately green-light a criminal trial
From CNN's John Fritze

The Supreme Court appeared to be searching for a middle ground Thursday in response to former President Donald Trump's claims of sweeping immunity, unwilling to grant him the broad protections he has sought but also unwilling to give special counsel Jack Smith carte blanche to pursue his election subversion charges.

Trump's attorney, John Sauer, acknowledged that some of his client's actions following the 2020 election were private, and likely not entitled to immunity " an important concession that could help the special counsel.

But the justices also aggressively pressed Smith's attorney on his own position, suggesting they would likely send the case back to a District Court for more review " and, potentially, far more delay.

Michael Dreeben, representing Smith, came under heavy fire from several of the court's conservatives, including Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who questioned whether the laws Trump is accused of violating can be applied to a former president and whether an appeals court decision that found Trump was not entitled to immunity would have dramatic consequences for democracy.

Justice Samuel Alito pressed Dreeben on whether his position would "not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy."

Alito, a conservative, said the nation could look to other countries where, after an election, "the loser gets thrown in jail."

The court's liberals, including Justice Sonia Sotomayor, appeared to align behind Smith's position. "A stable democratic society needs the good faith that it's public officials," Sotomayor said.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-25 12:00 PM | Reply

What happens in Trump January 6 criminal case IF the Supreme Court delays it
From CNN's Katelyn Polantz

That will be the all-important question for the courts following this Supreme Court hearing.

With the justices appearing during oral arguments to congeal around the need to sketch out the lines of protection around the presidency for official acts, the high court seems poised to direct lower courts to work on the issues in the Trump federal criminal case around January 6, 2021, more.

But that could go in several directions. It could mean District Judge Tanya Chutkan makes decisions following this Supreme Court case opinion, and moves Trump quickly to trial, potentially even before the election. Another possibility is the Supreme Court's decision could set up a process for a trial potentially months from now, after additional appeals court reviews -- and, as Trump hopes, delays.

Not every legal question in a criminal case can be appealed before trial, and most questions could not delay a jury from hearing a case.
Presidential immunity is one of the rare questions the courts need to figure out before a trial. (The other relates to double jeopardy issues.)

In this case, if the justices send Trump back down to the trial court helmed by Chutkan, she may need to work out if the allegations in the indictment fall under official acts of the presidency or not.

Theoretically, Trump could then potentially appeal a decision. But for another round of appeals to be helpful to his delay strategy, Trump would need to convince appellate judges -- perhaps at both the DC Circuit Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court -- to put an emergency hold on his trial to prevent it from taking place. He may also need to convince the appeals courts they have the ability -- called jurisdiction -- to hear the legal questions again before a trial.

There are many ways this could go and every step could be a nail-biter for timing, from the Supreme Court decision in this case on.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-25 12:11 PM | Reply

And Kavanaugh brings up Obama being immune from his drone strikes ... . They'll be finding in favor of Trump.

#7 | Posted by Bluewaffles at 2024-04-25 01:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

They'll be finding in favor of Trump.
#7 | POSTED BY BLUEWAFFLES

They'll be finding in favor of Trump AND every current and future POTUS. That should scare you, yet my guess is you celebrate.

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-04-25 01:51 PM | Reply

And Kavanaugh brings up Obama being immune from his drone strikes ... . They'll be finding in favor of Trump.

#7 | POSTED BY BLUEWAFFLES

And Blue still has no idea what the case is about apparently.

#9 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-04-25 02:07 PM | Reply


And Blue still has no idea what the case is about apparently.

#9 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Its not about Trump being able to murder his opponents?

Questions About Assassinations Test the Limits of Trump's Immunity Claim
Three Supreme Court briefs from former military leaders and intelligence officials explore whether presidents may be prosecuted for ordering unlawful killings.
www.nytimes.com

#10 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-04-25 02:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Oh I understand Syco, but you and I both know that went horribly for Jack Smith today.

#11 | Posted by Bluewaffles at 2024-04-25 03:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Oh I understand Syco, but you and I both know that went horribly for Jack Smith today.

#11 | POSTED BY BLUEWAFFLES

Which hearing did you watch? Wasn't this one.

#12 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-04-25 03:32 PM | Reply

Its not about Trump being able to murder his opponents?
Questions About Assassinations Test the Limits of Trump's Immunity Claim
Three Supreme Court briefs from former military leaders and intelligence officials explore whether presidents may be prosecuted for ordering unlawful killings.
www.nytimes.com
#10 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

I would hope you know it's not.

That is only the logical legal conclusion of Trump's legal argument though.

#13 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-04-25 03:34 PM | Reply

The six justice verdict will be announced post election.

Should Trump win, they will conclude the president has the right to do whatever he wants.

Should Trump lose, they will conclude the president is not immune to the law.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-04-25 03:43 PM | Reply

Best summary:

"The idea that the founders that exited a monarchy only to create another monarchy is insane."

(Paraphrasing Joy Reid with a brilliant and obvious decimation of the male Supreme Court Trump myrmidon's arguments)

#15 | Posted by YAV at 2024-04-25 08:53 PM | Reply

The reason it went badly for Jack Smith today is because the fix was in, but don't take it from me. Here's a highly respected conservative judge on the topic:


@judgeluttig
@judgeluttig

As with the three-hour argument in Trump v. Anderson, a disconcertingly precious little of the two-hour argument today was even devoted to the specific and only question presented for decision.

The Court and the parties discussed everything but the specific question presented.

That question is simply whether a former President of the United States may be prosecuted for attempting to remain in power notwithstanding the election of his successor by the American People.

thereby also depriving his lawfully elected successor of the powers of the presidency to which that successor became entitled upon his rightful election by the American People -- and preventing the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in American history.

It is not even arguably a core power or function of the President of the United States to ensure the fairness, accuracy, and integrity of a presidential election.

Let alone is it a core power or function of the President of the United States to ensure the proper certification of the next president by the Congress of the United States. Neither of these is a power or function of the president at all.

In fact, the Framers of the Constitution well understood the enormous potential for self-interested conflict were the President to have a role in these fundamental constitutional functions.

Consequently, they purposely and pointedly withheld from the President any role in these fundamental constitutional functions.

To whatever extent the Framers implicitly provided in the Executive any role whatsoever in these fundamental constitutional functions, it was a limited role for the Executive Branch,

through the Department of Justice, to inquire into allegations of fraud in presidential elections and ensure that the election was free, fair, and accurate.

The former president's Department of Justice did just that and found that there was no fraud sufficient to draw into question the results of the 2020 presidential election.

The former president of course has refused to this day to accept that finding by not only his own Department of Justice, but also countless others of his closest advisors.

Whether undertaken in his or her "official," "candidate," or "personal" capacity, a President of the United States has never been and can never be immune from prosecution (after leaving office),

for having attempted to remain in power notwithstanding the election of that President's successor by the American People.

Consequently, there is no reason whatsoever for the Supreme Court to remand to the lower courts for a determination of which of the alleged criminal acts might have been personal and which might have been official.

Neither is a clear statement from Congress that a president is subject to prosecution under the statutes with which the former president has been charged necessary in this particular case.

As applied to the former president for the criminal conduct with which he has been charged, there can be no question but that Congress intended a President of the United States to come within the ambit of the statutory offenses with which he has been charged.

For the same reason, it would be ludicrous to contend that the former president was not on sufficient notice that if he committed the criminal acts charged, he would be subject to criminal prosecution by the United States of America.

To hold otherwise would make a mockery out of the "plain statement" rule.

#16 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-25 09:12 PM | Reply

But since the Court didn't stick to the case at hand and let Trump's attorney run wild, let's consider some of the "it's gonna be wild" crap he entertained:

Abby D. Phillip
@abbydphillip

For the record, Trump's attorney John Sauer argues before the Supreme Court that depending on the circumstances, assassinating a political rival could be considered an official act.

Alyssa Farah Griffin
@Alyssafarah

I was in the Oval Office with Trump when he said a WH staffer he believed leaked an embarrassing story about him should be executed.

We may want to take this line of argument from Trump's attorney extremely seriously.

#17 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-25 09:23 PM | Reply

I was unfortunately unable to listen to the argument today due to work priorities.

However, perusing the various threads and stories gets me pondering. How far can our country's democracy bend? How far can the nation's justice system warp itself before a critical mass of disruption occurs? By this I mean at what point is the corruption too blatant, too noxious for the people to stay ameliorated. I realize that the rightwing has it's armed mob allegedly behind it waiting in the wings for violent action at -------- word. But what about the ordinary American? What about the left wing? What about the majority of Americans who are sick and tired of the subversion through ill intent of this conservative fringe fanatic maniacal cabal? I realize most are asleep, most won't become aware until a year from now when a nationwide abortion ban is implemented or --------tarts arresting journalists and politicians. And that is if he WINS. If he loses the election, what then? Will America have to face a nascent civil war from disenchanted -------ites?

And at what point does the SC realize that ------- will eliminate them once they get in his way? Are they so naive to think that they will hold some power independent from -------- whims? ------- won't give 2 ----- when it comes to eliminating Chevron, but if the SC deigns to decide a case of Executive Privilege counter to -------- desires you think ------- would be averse to sending a mob against them?

Hitler came to power through democratic means, he then subverted all of the traditional power structures to his will-the courts, the parliament, the police, the armed forces, the capitalists, the industrialists, the churches, the conservative parties. All thought one way or another they could control him. ------- ha-------'s vision (hopefully not his competency), but failing to confront him will embolden him and now the SC is poised to prevent him being held accountable through delay and empowering him through immunity.

History will look back at today and it will not be kind.

#18 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-25 09:27 PM | Reply

But since the Court didn't stick to the case at hand and let Trump's attorney run wild, let's consider some of the "it's gonna be wild" crap he entertained:
Abby D. Phillip
@abbydphillip
For the record, Trump's attorney John Sauer argues before the Supreme Court that depending on the circumstances, assassinating a political rival could be considered an official act.
Alyssa Farah Griffin
@Alyssafarah
I was in the Oval Office with Trump when he said a WH staffer he believed leaked an embarrassing story about him should be executed.
We may want to take this line of argument from Trump's attorney extremely seriously.

#17 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Do they understand that if this is decided before January 20, 2025 that Biden could order ------- killed?

#19 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-25 09:28 PM | Reply

"How far can our country's democracy bend?"

Well, our democracy was born of slavery, and women who couldn't vote who were chattel property of their husbands.

So, all that is totally permissible.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-25 09:28 PM | Reply

Do they understand that if this is decided before January 20, 2025 that Biden could order ------- killed?
#19 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

By that logic, Biden could have them killed as well if he decided they were corrupt, right?

#21 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-25 09:32 PM | Reply

I weep for my children.

I am too old for the fight, I won't be on the front line, though I suspect that should ------- win I will receive a knock on my door by a pasty faced Pecksniff at some point. There will be no one too small to fall under his gaze.

#22 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-25 09:40 PM | Reply

It had become clear that alito is literally insane.

we need scotus term limits.

#23 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2024-04-25 09:43 PM | Reply

All five of the male Justices were clearly in Trump's camp, no matter what the facts are. They did everything they could to derail the focus on the actual facts of the case - even interrupting the women on the court when things weren't going well for Trump's attorney. This is why I called them "male Supreme Court Trump myrmidon's."

#24 | Posted by YAV at 2024-04-25 10:23 PM | Reply

Best summary:
"The idea that the founders that exited a monarchy only to create another monarchy is insane."
(Paraphrasing Joy Reid with a brilliant and obvious decimation of the male Supreme Court Trump myrmidon's arguments)
#15 | POSTED BY YAV

Justice Kagan today: "The framers did not put an immunity clause into the Constitution. They knew how to; there were immunity clauses in some state constitutions. They didn't provide immunity to the president. And, you know " not so surprising " they were reacting against a monarch who claimed to be above the law. Wasn't the whole point that the president was not a monarch and the president was not supposed to be above the law?"

twitter.com

#25 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-25 10:25 PM | Reply

All five of the male Justices were clearly in Trump's camp, no matter what the facts are. They did everything they could to derail the focus on the actual facts of the case - even interrupting the women on the court when things weren't going well for Trump's attorney. This is why I called them "male Supreme Court Trump myrmidon's."
#24 | POSTED BY YAV

Patriarchy.

#26 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-25 10:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#25 - Exactly. Now watch the 5 male "justices" run right over that. Trump's going to get his "win" from this - but it won't be the full immunity from everything he wants. It'll guarantee he'll be able to do whatever he wants if this country puts him back in the White House, though.

#27 | Posted by YAV at 2024-04-25 10:31 PM | Reply

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