Wednesday, August 14, 2024

The Right's Plan to Fix America: 'Patriarchy 2.0'

Zack Beauchamp: JD Vance and like-minded conservatives are theorizing a kind of "neopatriarchy." by Zack Beauchamp Aug 13, 2024

Posted by Corky at 08:32 AM | 53 COMMENTS | permalink

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"Neopatriarchy can be distinguished from straight-up patriarchy primarily through its treatment of women. Unlike some Christian fundamentalists or alt-right scribblers, neopatriarchs do not assert that women are obligated to be homemakers as a result of divine commandment or natural law.

All they insist on explicitly is that women have lots of children, and that choosing to focus primarily on raising said children is no worse than having a career.

It's obvious why liberals and leftists would have problems taking this seriously.

If Americans are supposed to be having more kids, and American men are supposed to be more traditionally masculine, then who's supposed to be doing the work of raising all of these kids?

The answer, of course, is wives (as it's certainly not immigrants). Neopatrarichy may not explicitly call for a reversal of the feminist revolution, but that's basically what it's going for."

lots more at the thread link, including "Barstool Conservatives" and...

"With Republicans out of the White House, these divisions have largely been confined to posting wars. But should Trump retake the presidency, his administration would likely include prominent neopatriarchical voices " including Vance himself.

That would launch a high-stakes national debate over an issue some may have thought settled: whether the state should favor families with traditional gender roles."

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2024-08-13 03:56 PM

Oh, and...

"Mind your own damn business." | Tim Walz

www.google.com

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2024-08-13 04:00 PM

As a white male, this really pisses me off.
I HATE how the right has coopted white male hood,
and made it into a thing reviled by every other
ethnic and gender group in America.

Not all white males think this way...

these white males are racist. these white males are sick.

#3 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-08-14 08:48 AM

"Barstool Conservatives"

You know how you get 4 conservative men on a barstool?
Turn it over.

#4 | Posted by YAV at 2024-08-14 08:52 AM

When they say "fix it" they mean fix it for oligarchs like themselves.

The biggest farce is a robber baron real estate mogul who doesn't pay taxes and never worked a day in his life who rapes women and children and thinks he is above the law chose a VP who is a pretend hillbilly vulture capitalist who owes his success to billionaires is running on a platform of looking out for the middle class.

These two asshats haven't paid attention to the middle class one minute of their miserable lives.

They want to kill social security and medicare because their opinion is that only the wealthy should retire.

They want to kill the affordable care act because you don't deserve health care.

They want to kill the EPA because you don't deserve clean air, land and water.

They want to kill the consumer protection board because you don't deserve to be treated fairly.

They want to kill the department of education because you don't deserve to be adequately educated.

They want to kill the IRS because they want to commit tax fraud freely because only the middle class should pay taxes.

They want to kill the minimum wage because f**k you work three jobs to eat.

They want to kill the USDA because they don't care if you eat food infected with ecoli or listeria.

They want to kill $35 insulin because f**k you if you have diabetes.

They want to regulation who you can love, who you can marry, force you to carry your rapists baby, etc.

WE WON'T GO BACK.

#5 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-08-14 10:17 AM

You know how you get 4 conservative men on a barstool?
Turn it over.

If Lindsay Graham is under Trump you can get five on.

#6 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-08-14 10:18 AM

-As a white male, this really pisses me off.

What, the garbage in this article? Don't let yourself be pissed off by an article that really doesn't have any substance.

At least the author admits this is nothing even remotely new. It's at least a re-hash accusation from almost 50 years ago.

What's relevant is that there will always be a faction on the right who is concerned that the family is disintegrating. Which is true in part but the causes they point to are proven to be false in hindsight when you have the opportunity to go back and evaluate the predictions and assertions made at the time.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 10:29 AM

"At least the author admits this is nothing even remotely new. It's at least a re-hash accusation from almost 50 years ago."

The plot to overturn Roe v Wade was also 50 years in the making. And I believe the two are closely related.

If the concerns for my family's health were valid we would have universal health care and dental care and eye care and mental health care (and affordable child care) by now.

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 11:34 AM

-If the concerns for my family's health were valid we would have universal health care and dental care and eye care and mental health care (and affordable child care) by now.

That's being very harsh towards people who I think might really do have concerns for your family's health. They struggle with the challenges to give you what you want such as universal health care but that doesn't mean they don't have valid concerns.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 11:48 AM

"That's being very harsh towards people who I think might really do have concerns for your family's health."

Those people need to be treated harshly.

People are suffering and dying while those people that you say care about me and my family play political games with our lives.

Republicans efforts at undermining our health care and offering nothing but empty promises in return is simply criminal.

#10 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 12:08 PM

-Those people need to be treated harshly.

Now now now.....the democrats thought they were helping you when they passed ACA.

Don't go spitting in their faces because your family was denied " universal health care and dental care and eye care and mental health care (and affordable child care) by now."

Of course republicans aren't going to consider such things either but that's not the only reason why you don't have all these things you want.

But you probably can't accept that.

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 12:14 PM

"offering nothing but empty promises"

What? Two weeks is UP?

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-08-14 12:17 PM

-Republicans efforts at undermining our health care and offering nothing but empty promises in return is simply criminal.

what empty promises?

#13 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 12:25 PM

"the democrats thought they were helping you when they passed ACA."

You, of all folks, should know it happened just as the baby boomers would've started entering high-risk pools in ever-increasing numbers.

Back then, the bride's best friend survived cancer, and the husband lost his health insurance for taking so much time off to care for her. They had to get coverage through a high-risk pool, which cost over 10x the going rate at that point (450 v 5000).

In the meantime, almost any "pre-existing condition" could allow the insurer to refuse you. Guess what almost all boomers have.

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-08-14 12:25 PM

"what empty promises"

Bigger, better, cheaper, two weeks. Right after infrastructure week.

Take your pick.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-08-14 12:27 PM

14

Yeah, I know all that. so?

I'm not ragging on ACA. Donner is.

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 12:34 PM

-In the meantime, almost any "pre-existing condition" could allow the insurer to refuse you. Guess what almost all boomers have.

If you had no credible coverage prior, yes...that was how pre-existing condition exclusions were applied.

But most boomers have and had coverage so the exclusion isn't applied.

I'm assuming you knew that.....

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 12:39 PM

I'm not ragging on ACA. Donner is.

#16 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I never mentioned the ACA but since you brought it up ...

It's no wonder it hardly works. Republicans and the Trump administration have literally sabotaged it. And offered nothing to replace it or help make it better How has that helped my family?

...

Sabotage - deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage.

#18 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 12:53 PM

-It's no wonder it hardly works

It's doing what it was written to do.

It wasn't written to do more than it's doing.

Now, a lot of cheerleaders suggested ACA would get us closer to single payer/universal health care.

That was bunk and I called it just that at the time.

-I never mentioned the ACA

You complained you're being denied universal health care

#19 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 12:59 PM

Failures

The Lincoln Project

www.youtube.com

1 min

"Autograph my -----, Donald!"

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2024-08-14 01:30 PM

"It's doing what it was written to do."

After it was completely gutted and sabotaged by Republicans.

..

"I never mentioned the ACA"

You complained you're being denied universal health care

#19 | POSTED BY EBERLY

The ACA is not the same as universal healthcare.

As you have pointed out.

And we could have never gotten anything close to universal healthcare passed and you know it. We barely got a stripped down sabotaged version of the ACA passed. And you know that too.

And there is only one reason.

Republicans.

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 02:10 PM

-After it was completely gutted and sabotaged by Republicans.

when did they do that? link?

The republicans didn't cast a single vote for ACA.

What we received in ACA was a compromise between........fellow democrats.

You're so violated.......

This is no defense for republicans who didn't bother to support any of it nor write something better and then tried to repeal it countless times.

But what you don't like about ACA falls entirely on the shoulders of the democratic party...who got lobbied out the ass by the insurance industry and providers......

abcnews.go.com

You could remove the republicans entirely from Obamacare and you'd get.......the same Obamacare

And there are some great results from it......remember, you're the one complaining about your healthcare. not me.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 04:21 PM

I thought what we generally had was patriarchy 2.0.

A man leads his household and if he can't his wife does.

Whatever these creeps want for women it's not good.

#23 | Posted by Tor at 2024-08-14 04:31 PM

Come on Ebs, you've been showed the truth about GOP influence in the final ACA legislation for over a decade now because it was never hidden.

Set the health care record straight: Republicans helped craft Obamacare

While it is true that no Republican voted for the final bill, it is blatantly untrue that it contains no GOP DNA. In fact, to make such an assertion is like researching your ancestry and going no further back than your mother and father.

Not only were Republican senators deeply involved in the process up until its conclusion, but it's a cinch that the ACA might have become law months earlier if the Democrats, hoping for a bipartisan bill, hadn't spent enormous time and effort wooing GOP senators - only to find themselves gulled by false promises of cooperation. And unlike Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's semi-secret proceedings that involved only a handful of trusted colleagues, Obamacare, until the very end of the process, was open to public scrutiny.

Let's set the record straight. The Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (known as the HELP Committee), chaired first by Edward Kennedy and later by Christopher Dodd, held 14 bipartisan round-table meetings and 13 public hearings. Democrats on that committee accepted 160 Republican amendments to the bill. The Senate Finance Committee, chaired by Montana Democrat Max Baucus, was writing its own version of the ACA. It held 17 bipartisan round-table sessions, summit meetings and hearings with Republican senators.

It is always a mistake to infer from a vote on final passage of a bill in Congress that bipartisan cooperation was wholly absent from the process. You cannot assume that even a bill with no votes at all from the other party was not significantly influenced by the opposition at earlier stages in its development.

Hopefully, this is the last time we'll see the canard that the GOP had nothing to do with the content of the ACA as it was passed. The ACA was a bipartisan effort up until the point it wasn't because the GOP wanted to demagogue it as their means to win seats in 2010.

#24 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 04:38 PM

"But what you don't like about ACA falls entirely on the shoulders of the democratic party."

Not when Republicans refused to correct ANY of its flaws, for fear of being accused of voting FOR Obamacare.

Contrast that to the Republicans' screw-up regarding the farmers' exemption of 20% of gross profits from taxable income:

Republicans forgot the word "profits", so the law allowed a 20% deduction of gross INCOME, a world of difference.

Goal: $500,000 gross, $400k expenses = 100k profit. Less 20% for exemption, and the farmer would owe taxes on $80k.

Result: $500,000 gross less 20% exemption = $400,000 income. After $400k expenses, that's ZERO profit.

Oops.

Democrats voted to fix it on first ask.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-08-14 04:43 PM

24

Tony, I understand all of that. No argument from me. You're just confirming the fact that the ACA was passed without a single GOP vote. Did the GOP have a seat at the table for the creation of the bill? Absolutely. And was the original framework for ACA drafted by republicans? Yes.

Donner wants to argue the democrats wanted a single payer universal healthcare system and the ONLY reason why it didn't happen was the republicans.

That's completely absurd especially when you see where the money went from lobbying as ACA was being generated and voted on.

I'm guessing you missed that part..........

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 04:45 PM

-Hopefully, this is the last time we'll see the canard that the GOP had nothing to do with the content of the ACA as it was passed.

It will always be a matter of fact it passed without a single vote from the GOP...so it's hard to blame the GOP entirely for its flaws.

Can anybody concede that?

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 04:48 PM

It will always be a matter of fact it passed without a single vote from the GOP...so it's hard to blame the GOP entirely for its flaws.

Can anybody concede that?

Absolutely not! The GOP played politics with the ACA and rode it into the majority. The truth is the truth:

On the House side, the Republican leadership made it clear to members that they were not to cooperate in any way with the effort to create the health insurance program proposed by President Obama. McConnell, then the Senate minority leader, was equally disapproving of cooperation. Despite that, a few Republican senators, such as Finance Committee members Charles Grassley of Iowa and Mike Enzi of Wyoming, were in discussions with the Democrats until McConnell warned both men that their future in the party would be in jeopardy if they supported the bill.

By the summer recess in August 2009, Republicans like Grassley were back in their states and hearing from the Tea Party movement that cooperating with Democrats on health care reform was akin to trading with the enemy.

It may be politically useful for firing up your political base to accuse the other party of exclusionary tactics, but in most cases it just ain't so. Bipartisanship is encoded in much of the work that Congress does. Polarization is a much more compelling narrative, but it is rarely the whole story. (same link as above)

The modern GOP is famous for taking what should have bipartisan support - lifting the debt ceiling - and then turning it into a partisan issue to placate their base. Same thing with budget bills, defense bills, disaster relief, etc..

To my knowledge, I can't think of a single bill negotiation done under good faith by the Democrats where they pull all their support when it comes time to final passage. If anyone else can, please point it out for me.

#28 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:12 PM

On a tangent Ebs, your recollection of - or the media's framing - that the ACA received no GOP votes, ergo the "conventional wisdom" that entire contents belongs to the Democrats alone and any problems with it are the Democrats' own fault is analogous to how Kamala Harris has been portrayed as an empty pantsuit, inarticulate, dumb and undeserving of her station - which now has been blown out of the water by ease with which she changed the Democrats 2024 electoral momentum and energized and mobilized voters from coast to coast by projecting dominant leadership qualities and all she's learned from winning 5 different elections over her 20 year career as an elected politician.

You focus on the reality the ACA received no GOP votes, which is true. But many of the administrative problems within the ACA are only there because of concessions to the GOP as the bill was being negotiated in what Democrats thought was good faith, since the bill was written to help millions of uninsured Americans get more affordable health insurance.

Just like this moment, the GOP and Trump have the gaul to insist that the Democrats are the obstacle to "closing the border" when the truth is the very legislation negotiated by Sen. Lankford - and containing concessions by Dems that Republicans called "far better than our own bills" - was torpedoed by Trump's own calls, so Republicans AGAIN can use its failure as a weapon to defeat Democrats in 2024.

With the GOP, history ALWAYS repeats itself because the party is solely about power, not what's best for the majority of Americans, particularly those not voting for or donating money to GOP politicians.

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:35 PM

Let me get this straight Tony because I'm hoping I'm wrong here.

You're saying that a bill which passed with 100% democratic party votes and 0% republican party votes.......Whatever flaw that exists in this bill. Wherever it gives back too much to insurance companies, or drug companies, or health care providers, where it doesn't protect consumers enough, where it doesn't include a mandate, where it basically cements the insurance industry in place, where it doesn't have a public option, etc....I could go on but you get the flaws that have been pointed out by everyone since it's passage years and years ago.

All of the bill and what's wrong with it....represents ZERO blame to the democratic party and 100% blame to the republican party.

Again, let's recap how the vote went.....100% democratic party support and 0% republican party support.

Not trying exonerate the GOP For it's obvious shenannigans and bad faith negotiations.

But that's not good enough for Tony.

Tony wants the democratic party to accept ZERO blame for what's wrong with ACA.

This after the leadership of the democratic party slammed the actual democratic party when it was being passed for these very flaws we're realizing today??????

#30 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:36 PM

#28 Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:12 PM | Reply | Flagged funny by eberly

Funny? What did I say that's funny?

#31 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:37 PM

It will always be a matter of fact it passed without a single vote from the GOP...so it's hard to blame the GOP entirely for its flaws.

Can anybody concede that?

#27 | Posted by eberly

Can you concede it was made worse by concessions made to TRY and get GOP votes?

#32 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-08-14 05:38 PM

abcnews.go.com

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:38 PM

And we could have never gotten anything close to universal healthcare passed and you know it. We barely got a stripped down sabotaged version of the ACA passed. And you know that too.

And there is only one reason.
Republicans.

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 02:10 PM | Reply

Oh please. We could have had a public option if it weren't for that bastard Joe Lieberman. The rotten scoundrel.

#34 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-08-14 05:38 PM

-Can you concede it was made worse by concessions made to TRY and get GOP votes?

of course. I already have.

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:39 PM

-We could have had a public option if it weren't for that bastard Joe Lieberman. The rotten scoundrel.

It wasn't just Joe but you're right.

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:39 PM

"Absolutely not!"

That was funny....

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:40 PM

All of the bill and what's wrong with it....represents ZERO blame to the democratic party and 100% blame to the republican party.

NO! I never said that. What I got from you is the opposite: Because Dems were the only votes to pass the ACA, then the GOP holds no responsibility for what was in it, for better or worse.

Dems are far from perfect, and I don't believe that I ever made such an illogical assertion.

First, the framework of the ACA came from the Heritage Foundation and the only reason the Dems started with it was in deference to the GOP's complete opposition to a public option or a true universal healthcare system.

For the GOP to say that all the ACA's problems are the Dem's fault completely ignores their input in creating some of these problems with amendments Dems accepted because they thought they were negotiating with people who'd support their own amendments by voting for the final bill! Bigly mistake.

#38 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:42 PM

"It will always be a matter of fact it passed without a single vote from the GOP...so it's hard to blame the GOP entirely for its flaws.

Can anybody concede that?"

-Eberly

Absolutely not!
-TonyRoma

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:46 PM

Donner wants to argue the democrats wanted a single payer universal healthcare system and the ONLY reason why it didn't happen was the republicans.

That's completely absurd especially when you see where the money went from lobbying as ACA was being generated and voted on.

I'm guessing you missed that part..........

I did. But as mentioned above, there were Democrats that didn't support a public option too, so there was never a realistic chance of passing one in 2009.

And the ACA itself almost died when Ted Kennedy did. That is why the House version of the bill became law when the Senate bill was actually better but unpassable due to Scott Brown's election.

#40 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:48 PM

"if it weren't for that bastard Joe Lieberman. The rotten scoundrel."

Laura, you understand where Joe Lieberman was from, right?

And if it wasn't Joe Lieberman representing the great state of Connecticut, it would simply be someone else from that state representing the overwhelmingly largest lobbying special interest in that state, right???

#41 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:48 PM

Laura, you understand where Joe Lieberman was from, right?
And if it wasn't Joe Lieberman representing the great state of Connecticut, it would simply be someone else from that state representing the overwhelmingly largest lobbying special interest in that state, right???

Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:48 PM | Reply

It was because his wife was in the insurance industry. I understand Connecticut and their being the home of so many insurance companies. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility for quashing the public option.

#42 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-08-14 05:52 PM

-It was because his wife was in the insurance industry.

and like 200K voters...and millions upon millions of dollars ready to be spent on his opponent for his next election....

If you need a vote from a member of congress that hurts an insurance company...maybe don't expect it from a senator from Connecticut.

I mean it makes you seem insanely naive as to how the process works.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 05:56 PM

so it's hard to blame the GOP entirely for its flaws.

I missed that word too. It's absolutely true.

But going back, this comment was the one I answered to in defense of the Democrats: But what you don't like about ACA falls entirely on the shoulders of the democratic party...who got lobbied out the ass by the insurance industry and providers......

While there's no denying the lobbying, I was referring more to attempts to fix the flaws after the ACA passed. The GOP refused to help the Democrats fix problems because to do so would harm their jihad against it even though real Americans - including millions of their own voters - wouldn't be helped due to their own intransigence.

#44 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 05:56 PM

Oh and I forgot to blame Obama for making a deal with the healthcare industry to promise not to include the public option in the final product. He is to blame as well.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-08-14 05:58 PM

44

completely agree and admittingly I baited some of you into this debate with the "falls entirely on the shoulders of the democratic party". Sorry about that.

Donner was trying to completely absolve the democratic party.

As far as what the GOP is guilty of with regards to ACA.....zero argument from me.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 06:00 PM

It doesn't absolve him of responsibility for quashing the public option.

No it doesn't. But elected representatives often vote against their party when tasked with protecting one of their state's largest businesses from legislation directly threatening to it.

I don't agree with this, but I understand the realities of politics where election campaigns are funded by donors instead of by voters through a governmentally regulated funding mechanism.

Like Lieberman, Joe Biden often sided with pro-bank issues and legislation since banks are one of Delaware's biggest employers and campaign contributors.

Doesn't make it right, but it's true. You don't get elected by pissing on your state's top employers.

#47 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-14 06:03 PM

" But most boomers have and had coverage so the exclusion isn't applied."

Except 1) you could be refused by the insurance company, and
2) I was in an industry where going on and off coverage was common, since coverage was based on getting enough gigs.

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-08-14 06:14 PM

"Donner was trying to completely absolve the democratic party."

No I didn't and you still don't understand the difference. Obviously.

The Democrats tried and failed to pass comprehensive healthcare reform to make healthcare more affordable for Americans

Republicans tried and failed to prevent Democrats from passing anything to help Americans have access to affordable healthcare.

But Republicans were successful in sabotaging anything the Democrats did manage to pass.. in spite of those Republicans.

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-14 06:30 PM

-No I didn't

Yes you did.

But you aren't now ... ...

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2024-08-14 06:40 PM

Why are right wing "men" always so keen on proving what "men" they are.

Its almost as if they know the rest of us don't buy it.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2024-08-14 07:21 PM

Destroying the family structure has been a smashing success so why would anyone want to change that? Female happiness is lower than before the start of feminism - so, what exactly has been gained? The whole female-worker nonsense was the greatest con that Big Business could have imagined. They double the workforce destroying the wage scale and created a run for college-industry complex. Of course, the messed up kids as a result of broken homes is an unfortunate side effect, but that can easily be addressed by importing more illegals.

#52 | Posted by Claudio at 2024-08-15 01:17 PM

lol... Clodio's old man made him write that!

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2024-08-15 01:20 PM

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