Sunday, September 15, 2024

Trump's Lie Is Another Test for Christian America

The accusation that Haitian immigrants in a small Ohio city are abducting and eating their neighbors' cats and dogs relies not on one falsehood but on a web of them. When we are willing to see children terrorized rather than stop telling lies about their families, we should step back, forget about our dogs and cats for a moment, and ask who abducted our consciences. That's especially true for those of us who, like me, claim to be followers of Jesus of Nazareth, who told us that on the Day of Judgment, "people will give account for every careless word they speak" (Mt 12:36).

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To sing praise songs in a church service while trafficking in the bearing of false witness against people who fled for their life, who seek to rebuild a life for their children after crushing poverty and persecution, is more than just cognitive dissonance. It's modeling the devil himself, whom Jesus called "the father of lies" (Jn 8:44). That's especially true when the lies harm another person. "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer," the apostle John wrote, "and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1 Jn 3:15).

The cruelty to Haitian immigrants - and with it, the implicit incitement of potential violence - is not [a] debatable issue. And Christians do not need to struggle to figure out what Jesus would have us do here. If we see children sheltering at home because they fear violence, we know that's wrong. And when we see that this fear comes from the incitement of hatred against those children because of where their parents came from, surely we can smell the brimstone.

It became Sunday while I was writing this. I truly wonder how many Christian ministers, priests, and preachers will one way or another mention Springfield tomorrow in their sermons and homilies.

I wonder how many prayers will be offered up for the suffering citizens of Springfield having to deal with the invasion of an immigrant hoard. Prayers asking for the Lord to remove the feral interlopers so that the city's 'real' citizens can get back to their lives before they came.

And I equally wonder how many prayers across America will be offered up for the well-being of the immigrant community being falsely accused and targeted for violence? Will they offer up prayers for the immigrant children - now being evacuated from their schools due to repeated bomb threats, and missing school days because of them? Will they pray for protection of the entire city - now under siege by the lies told and repeated by self-proclaimed Christian men, both running to serve in this nation's highest office?

It truly would be interesting to know how this dichotomy of viewpoints actually breaks down. Unfortunately, I have a very strong suspicion we already know which direction the outcome will tip. And it isn't likely to be on the side both Jesus and his teachings are.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-09-15 12:16 AM

"#14) The Antichrist is revealed by the falling away " 2 Thessalonians 2:3

A remarkable and yet often overlooked meaning behind this verse is that the "falling away" " or those that leave the faith " will be tied in with the revealing of the man of sin.

In other words, these two events are related, as those who fall away from the faith will fall TOWARDS the man of sin.

Thus, it is the falling away that reveals the Antichrist, as we simply need to look at those who have fallen away from the faith and see WHO they are gravitating towards.

It's not simply a falling away for the sake of leaving the faith, but a falling away FROM Jesus Christ and TOWARDS the Antichrist.

This is exactly what we've seen over the past few years with many Christians and their love affair with Trump.

While Trump's vileness would have been repulsive in any other politician, strangely Christians not only embraced him, but started talking about him as if he was a man of God.

Even worse, some Christians now consider Trump as the savior of America, putting him on the same level as Jesus.

But to those of us who are watching, their falling away from the faith helps us identify who the Antichrist is, as we simply need to observe WHO they are embracing instead of Jesus."

antichrist45.com

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 12:17 AM

Whatever they call themselves, the are not practicing "Christians."

That's the opposite of anything attributed to Christ in the Bible. Good Samaritan ring a bell? Matthew 25:31-46, etc etc

#3 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-09-15 01:25 AM

I'm not a Christian, but there are parts of a moral code in there that really resonate. Specifically, chunks of the Sermon on the Mount. This, for example:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits."
Matthew 7:15-20

#4 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2024-09-15 07:46 AM

Barry Goldwater, floor of the US Senate, 1981, on religion in politics (wiredpen.com), well worth reading in full.

The religious factors that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their positions 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on any particular moral issue, they cajole, they complain, they threaten you with loss of money or votes or both.

In the past couple years. I have seen many news items that referred to the moral majority, pro-life and other religious groups as "the new right," and the "new conservatism." Well. I have spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the "old conservatism." And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics.

The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength.

#5 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2024-09-15 08:45 AM

I love 2-3 and 4, and frankly I don't think that it would be controversial if Kamala used biblical quotes like the above, prefaced by her saying that there are very universal "virtues" and moral guidance articulated in those words - regardless of one's personal religious preference or having none at all - clearly and unambiguously labeling the anti-Christ-like actions, words, and behaviors coming from Trump and Vance are immoral and malevolently evil.

Democrats should hold up a mirror to Christian nationalists and show America that they aren't Christian in any sense of the word. In reality they're espousing nothing but unabashed fear and hatred towards some of God's less fortunate children, targeting them for abuse instead of opening one's arms to welcome the aggrieved strangers and offering them helping hands as others have done for us, instead of nothing but balled fists and unrelenting scorn simply for trying to provide better for themselves and their families coming out of a failed nation in disrepair, run by exploiters and thugs.

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-09-15 08:53 AM

People who lie as much as Trump does don't follow the Christian God:

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

#7 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-09-15 09:38 AM

I don't know who needs to hear this, but Christians don't make up fake stories about immigrants eating pets to try and terrify people into voting for them.
-Pastor John Pavlovitz

#8 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2024-09-15 01:37 PM

No follower of Jesus could possibly want to elect a man who tells horrible destructive and obvious lies for his own gain.

#9 | Posted by Tor at 2024-09-15 02:23 PM

Re 9

Then why do they?

#10 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-15 02:38 PM

They don't follow Jesus they honor him with their lips and trump with their hands.

#11 | Posted by Tor at 2024-09-15 02:46 PM

Overall, two-thirds of White evangelical Protestants say they have a favorable view of the former president, including 30% who have a very favorable opinion of him.

Roughly half of White Catholics (51%) express positive views of Trump, as do 47% of White nonevangelical Protestants and 45% of Hispanic Protestants.

Among Christians as a whole, 47% of those who attend church at least monthly say they have a favorable view of the former president. That's on par with the 46% of non-church-attending Christians who say the same.
Among White evangelical Protestants, 68% of regular churchgoers have a positive view of Trump " similar to the 64% among White evangelicals who don't attend church regularly.

That sure is a lot of Christians that have a "favorable view" of the convicted (and yet to be sentenced) felon.

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-15 03:28 PM

Surprising part tp me is that non-Christians have the same percent favorable view as Christians.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 03:33 PM

Tests for Christians? Nah, any purported Christian who supports their Orange Idol has given up on tests.

They're going full "I'll do whatever I want and hurt whomever I please 'cause Jesus dying for my sins is an infinite 'get out of jail free' card."

#14 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-15 03:44 PM

100 Bible Verses about Fake Christians

www.openbible.info

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 03:55 PM

They self identify as Christians, they go to church, they represent far more than a minority of the church. They are Christians, this is what modern Christianity is. No true Scotsman fallacy applies.

Just because they don't follow the most obvious passages of the bible doesn't mean that they aren't Christians. Christians haven't followed the word of the bible probably for the majority of their faith's existence. Old testament anyone? Before anyone says that Jesus made that irrelevant, explain this:

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

#16 | Posted by dibblda at 2024-09-15 07:36 PM

#16

I'll grant that they are Christians however that doesn't mean they follow the teachings of Christ. Not sure what to call the schism between the prosperity gospel Christians and the gospel of Christ Christians.

Maybe there could be branding like Christ and Christ Zero?

#17 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2024-09-15 07:44 PM

That was low and I should not have said that. While I hope my interpretation of the gospel is correct I don't know that I am anymore correct than anyone else.

#18 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2024-09-15 08:01 PM

@#16 ... ust because they don't follow the most obvious passages of the bible doesn't mean that they aren't Christians. ...

OK, let me ask a simple question...

How do we define real Christians nowadays?



#19 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-15 08:01 PM

"I'll grant that they are Christians however that doesn't mean they follow the teachings of Christ. "

I'll grant you that as well. Pretty obvious really.

"OK, let me ask a simple question...
How do we define real Christians nowadays?"

Do they define themselves as Christian? Do they represent the majority of the faith? They are Christians then.

If you are a Christian and disagree, and haven't changed your position, the church left you.

#20 | Posted by dibblda at 2024-09-15 08:11 PM

"Among Christians as a whole, 47% of those who attend church at least monthly say they have a favorable view of the former president."

That's hardly a majority going anywhere.

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 08:38 PM

- Matthew 5:17

A contract fulfilled is no longer in force; the Law was replaced by a New Covenant, Grace.

www.truegospelofjesuschrist.org(Hebrews%208%3A6b)

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 08:56 PM

Surprising part tp me is that non-Christians have the same percent favorable view as Christians.
#13 | POSTED BY CORKY

But in every other U.S. religious group large enough to be analyzed in this survey, large majorities have unfavorable opinions of Trump, including:
88% of atheists
82% of agnostics
80% of Black Protestants
79% of Jewish Americans

www.pewresearch.org

Link for 12 & this post.

#23 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-15 09:12 PM

#23

Atheists aren't a religious group. That's kind of the whole concept, not being religious.

#24 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-09-16 09:47 AM

Not to worry, Christians among us.

When Trump becomes Dictator, the new Trumpian Constitution will make the Ten Commandments legally unconstitutional and ancient ----------.

#25 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-09-16 11:45 AM

"Atheists aren't a religious group."

But they ARE "nonChristians".

And as such they do NOT have the same favorable view of Trump as Christians.

Which was the point.

#26 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-16 11:58 AM

"Among Christians as a whole, 47% of those who attend church at least monthly say they have a favorable view of the former president."
That's hardly a majority going anywhere.
#21 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-15 08:38 PM | Reply

I attend Church regularly and I have a decidedly unfavorable view of the 45th POTUS and my church doesn't ever mention electoral crap from the pulpit other than, maybe, to encourage people to register and vote (if that even counts).

#27 | Posted by anton at 2024-09-16 12:01 PM

Trump's unChristian views are overt and I think the majority of mainline Christians dislike him.

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2024-09-16 12:05 PM

"Among Christians as a whole, 47% of those who attend church at least monthly say they have a favorable view of the former president."

And (...checks notes)...

..ZERO percent could name three commandments Trump follows!

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-09-16 12:05 PM

The only mission ultra-Christins have had for many years and by way of many Presidents was to get rid of Roe V Wade. Trump accomplished that goal for them. It is their belief that God will forgive him for all the other transgressions, regardless how religiously egregious, he committed enroute to, and beyond, that goal.

And no amount of evidence to the contrary, in spite of what the bible says about beware of false prophets, is going to change their minds. The ultras truly believe that Trump is the living embodiment of God.

And God in Heaven is going to throw a big party when they all die and get there.

#30 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-09-16 02:19 PM

As per the post in #2, the predictions about the End Times from the OT and the NT have always included a large number of faux-Christians siding with the Antichrist, including some of their opponents being beheaded.

After all, it was the religious leaders whom he saved his toughest language for, calling them hypocrites and worse, who had him killed.

There are literally dozens of descriptions of the person, the character, and the actions of the Antichrist and his followers in those texts... ALL of which describe in detail one particular person on the world scene today.

Now, I don't even know if these are those End Times, but if that same person becomes Pres again, I think it likely; and possible even if he doesn't.

antichrist45.com

Also, if you want to know more, you can see it here; I was shocked by it's conclusion, not having previously come to the same scenario it presents, but it's quite interesting to me.

antichrist45.com

Both these links have a video with the Text version beneath. The first one is pretty obvious identifying the AC, the second one not so obvious, and not what I'd previously thought, but very intriguing if you're interested in 2 and 3 thousand year old writings that appear to possibly be relevant to the present.

(The videos do give a bit more evidence visually, but the facts are the same in the text.)

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-16 02:32 PM

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