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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 18, 2024

The Supreme Court has turned away a convicted member of the Jan. 6 mob who was barred from public office in New Mexico under the Constitution's "insurrection clause" seeking to reverse his disqualification.

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WHOOOOOOOOPS!

#1 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-03-18 01:12 PM | Reply

Couy Griffin, the founder of "Cowboys for Trump" and a New Mexico county commissioner, was convicted of entering restricted U.S. Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021. He was found guilty of a misdemeanor charge related to this incident, which led to his sentencing to 14 days in jail, a $3,000 fine, 60 hours of community service, and a year of supervised release.

So misdemeanor trespassing is all he was convicted of, not even charged with seditious conspiracy like some of the others.

An insurrection it was. Take note, Trumpers.

#2 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-03-18 01:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

An insurrection for anyone OTHER than the leader of the insurrection that is.

#3 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-03-18 01:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"We conclude that States may disqualify persons holding or attempting to hold state office," the justices wrote.
Looks legit.

#4 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-03-18 03:18 PM | Reply

Oh so the founding fathers intended for insurrectionists to be banned from state office but not the presidency? Yeah that makes sense.

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-03-18 06:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#5 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Yeah the distinction here is between state and federal.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-03-18 06:54 PM | Reply

Yeah the distinction here is between state and federal.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11

Yet its in the federal constitution that says insurrectionists are barred from office.

#7 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-03-18 07:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#7 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I'm not a fan of the SCOTUS ruling .

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-03-18 07:27 PM | Reply

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11

If trump were running for governor of florida they'd let him do that too.

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-03-18 07:33 PM | Reply

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#2 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-03-18 01:31 PM
An insurrection it was.

#3 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-03-18 01:40 PM
An insurrection for anyone OTHER than the leader of the insurrection that is.

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-03-18 06:52 PM
Oh so the founding fathers intended for insurrectionists to be banned from state office but not the presidency? Yeah that makes sense.
___

The Supreme Court has turned away a convicted member of the Jan. 6 mob ...
Couy Griffin, the founder of "Cowboys for Trump" and a New Mexico county commissioner, was [previously] convicted of...

Not "presumed but never tried / never convicted..." of "insurrection" against/in some random state. "Convicted" makes all the difference... or doesn't it? Hence, 9-0 on that particular issue.
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#10 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-18 10:16 PM | Reply

Oh so the founding fathers intended for insurrectionists to be banned from state office but not the presidency? Yeah that makes sense.

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Oh and don't forget, states regulation their own federal elections...except when it comes to disqualification of candidates for clear Constitutional reasons. They, and only then, Congress is required to act in an ambiguous way in order to disqualify someone they can also act in a Constitutionally specified way to remove the prohibition from.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2024-03-18 10:23 PM | Reply

#10 | Posted by CutiePie

Conviction was never required and IIRC was never mentioned by SCOTUS who justified their BS logic pretzel with a different bucket full of s&^%.

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2024-03-18 10:24 PM | Reply

I knew this particular SCOTUS had no respect for stare decisis but I never knew it was this extreme!

#13 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-18 10:47 PM | Reply

yeah, roberts lied. stare decisis my lily white ass.

#14 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2024-03-18 10:50 PM | Reply

I think Alito was quoted as saying the decision was "egregiously decided from the start".
/s

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-18 11:50 PM | Reply

"Yet its in the federal constitution that says insurrectionists are barred from office."

Yes, and had Trump been convicted of insurrection, he would be ineligible to hold future offices.

But he wasn't.

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-03-19 04:21 AM | Reply

"Conviction was never required and IIRC was never mentioned by SCOTUS who justified their BS logic pretzel with a different bucket full of s&^%."

Then insurrection becomes nothing more than a soft allegation that any state could use to knock any potential presidential candidate off the ballot.

I don't totally disagree with you. My understanding is that states legally control who is allowed on the ballots, and therefore could remove candidates for any reason.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-03-19 04:34 AM | Reply

Yes, and had Trump been convicted of insurrection, he would be ineligible to hold future offices.
But he wasn't.

#16 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Neither was this guy.

#18 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-03-19 10:12 AM | Reply

"Neither was this guy."

The difference is that this guy was running for a state office and denied by the state.

Like I said, I don't totally disagree with a state eliminating someone from the ballot, which seems to be in line with Federalist policy. It just gets tricky because it gives states the ability to eliminate candidates based on little more than perception, or even opinion.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-03-19 10:22 AM | Reply

"Neither was this guy."
The difference is that this guy was running for a state office and denied by the state.
Like I said, I don't totally disagree with a state eliminating someone from the ballot, which seems to be in line with Federalist policy. It just gets tricky because it gives states the ability to eliminate candidates based on little more than perception, or even opinion.

#19 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

But you are missing a key similarity. NEITHER was convicted of insurrection.

But 5 Conservative Judges mangled the 14th Amendment on the Federal level saying Congress must pass a law because somehow ONLY that portion of that series of Amendments is not self executing.

If it was, at least a civil suit could be brought. But not even THAT is allowed under their interpretation. 4 Justices even pointed out how ridiculous this standard is.

#20 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-03-19 10:30 AM | Reply

Yes, and had Trump been convicted of insurrection, he would be ineligible to hold future offices.
But he wasn't.

That wasn't the basis for their ruling so why are you pretending that's a legitimate barrier?

There was no law against insurrection when the 14th amendment was drafted and ratified, so the notion that a conviction for same was some implicit prerequisite is ludicrous.

#21 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-19 10:55 AM | Reply

There was no law against insurrection when the 14th amendment was drafted and ratified, so the notion that a conviction for same was some implicit prerequisite is ludicrous.

#21 | POSTED BY JOE

And importantly and always conveniently forgotten by insurrectionists is that the word used in the constitution is "engaged" not "convicted".

And words used in the constitution are very important. Like the word "infringed".

So it's ok to hinge and define our very lives (and our children's lives) and existence on the word "infringed" but not our country's on the word "engaged"?

That makes absolutely no sense.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-03-19 01:06 PM | Reply

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#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-03-19 10:22 AM |
It just gets tricky because it gives states the ability to eliminate candidates based on little more than perception, or even opinion.

Some may say a "slippery slope," but you have something there, it can actually simplify and speed up elections. Instead of clear (state and federacy) standards on who can and cannot hold the state and federal offices, and therefore be on the ballot - like age limits, citizenship, legal status, criminal history, etc. - we can just let the Governors or "election commissions" or state courts decide.

The hell with "democracy," let's go for efficiency - states' "election commissions" (I presume appointed by governors) will kick out the candidates they don't want on the ballot (let's say Trump is "senile, insurrectionist - January 6! Pence! Russia! Twice impeached!" and Biden is "old, senile, corrupt - Big Guy! Hunter! Burisma! Ukraine! China!")

For most states, like Colorado or South Dakota it's not important because they already know who will win and can just "let the voters decide" by going through the process and concentrate on other / local issues, so it would be mostly up to about "swing" and/or "mixed" states, which is how it is now, except the decision will already be made for voters, unless they want to write in "ineligible" candidate, and there can be upfront rules about acceptance/non-acceptance of these "rogue" votes.

Then we'll just count the states' votes total and be done and will know who our President is right after they secured their party's nominations - easy-peasy, nothing "rigged" about it, and the citizens know that when they vote for Governor (or whoever decides the ballot inclusion/exclusion) which party President (the actual candidate TBD later) they are voting for.

We'll know which party will be in the White House and govern the Senate, maybe House, well before "general" elections - eliminates the uncertainty, simple, efficient, no drama, no trauma, Putin-style.

I mean, we are not that far from that already - about half-dozen "swing" states will decide elections outcome - Trump not being on Colorado ballot wouldn't change outcome of the general election, which is why it was politically so nakedly partisan and, therefore politically stupid.

If / while we do that, maybe we can do something that really matters, and can cut corruption significantly - have an amendment that denies a single person (President and Governor) power of pardon and/or commutation - which they can use to either pardon themselves (TBD by SCOTUS) or promise pardon to people who may commit crimes on their behalf / for their benefit. I think we've seen enough of that happening... but neither major party even brings this up, apparently just awaiting their turn at the helm/trough, to use the way they see fit.

"It's good to be the King!"
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#23 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-19 10:07 PM | Reply

#23 - "federacy" = "federal"

#24 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-19 10:12 PM | Reply

Trump not being on Colorado ballot wouldn't change outcome of the general election, which is why it was politically so nakedly partisan and, therefore politically stupid.

^
Republicans did that.
Republicans brought the Colorado challenge.
Those Republicans are stupid like a fox.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-03-19 10:13 PM | Reply

You're right America SHOULD submit to the will of terrorists.

#26 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-03-19 10:16 PM | Reply

-An insurrection it was. Take note, Trumpers.

I think what should concern you is what the definition of an insurrectionist.

a criminal conviction appears to be the standard.

you all have been jacking yourselves off over the absence of specific wording that doesn't require a criminal conviction.

but that was likely always going to be standard.

Which is why so many states didn't dare keep Trump off the ballot.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2024-03-19 11:01 PM | Reply

"...was politically so nakedly partisan..."

It was...just not in the way you're thinking.

Much like the J6 hearings. Soooooo partisan.

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-19 11:01 PM | Reply

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#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-19 11:01 PM
Much like the J6 hearings. Soooooo partisan.

Exactly! Obviously, not mutually exclusive, so a very good example of "deciding" things and exercising the power of the governing body based only on the "identity politics" / partisanship.

Then again, some of these provide unexpected entertainment.

The soooooo partisan "Biden Impeachment Inquiry" has produced a "highly credible witness" ex-FBI informant Alexander Smirnov... who turned out to be a dis-informant working for Russian intelligence service.

That was a laugh riot! Who says politics can't be funny?
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#29 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-20 12:04 AM | Reply

Yeah. Nothing funnier than an ongoing coup attempt by Republicans.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-03-20 12:07 AM | Reply

" a very good example of "deciding" things and exercising the power of the governing body based only on the "identity politics" / partisanship."

No, that was based on evidence and testimony. Rs who refused to watch it, grumbling it was "too partisan", meant Democrats, rather than what it was: Republicans interviewing Republicans on the exact moment the latter chose following the ideal of being a Republican instead of following Trump.

#31 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-20 01:27 AM | Reply

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#31 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-03-20 01:27 AM
Much like the J6 hearings. Soooooo partisan. [taken and accepted as irony(?)]
- - - - Exactly! Obviously, not mutually exclusive...
- - - - - - - No, that was based on evidence and testimony.

The 2021-2022 J6 hearings were vice-chaired by Liz Cheney(R), assisted by Adam Kinzinger(R), and both were active in the MSM at the time... so were clearly bipartisan.

There was also a recent GOP [partisan] House committee "investigating the J6 committee" which was attempting to undermine the J6 committee conclusions and some of its witnesses.
www.nbcnews.com - House Republicans release report seeking to undermine Jan. 6 committee and star witness - NBC, March 11, 2024

I guess, the double irony in my response didn't quite come through. Oh well, happens... It's pretty off topic, anyway.
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#32 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-20 03:56 AM | Reply

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#29 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-20 12:04 AM
... The soooooo partisan "Biden Impeachment Inquiry" has produced a "highly credible witness" ex-FBI informant Alexander Smirnov... who turned out to be a dis-informant working for Russian intelligence service. That was a laugh riot! Who says politics can't be funny?

Still OT re thread, but in the same lane re "Biden Impeachment Inquiry" - another GOP "most credible [witness] by far," Hunter's former business associate Tony Bobulinski's emails and WhatsApp messages have just been released and it doesn't look good for Tony and the inquiry:

www.thedailybeast.com - Texts Reveal More Russia Ties for Key Anti-Biden Witness - March 20, 2024

Maybe someone cares to post a thread on that...
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#33 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-03-20 08:11 AM | Reply

a criminal conviction appears to be the standard.
you all have been jacking yourselves off over the absence of specific wording that doesn't require a criminal conviction.
but that was likely always going to be standard.
Which is why so many states didn't dare keep Trump off the ballot.

#27 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Actually No.

The Supreme Court said the opposite. A criminal conviction is NOT required but a law passed by Congress even on the Civil side is required according to 5 Justices or at least helpful according to all 9.

#34 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-03-20 10:15 AM | Reply

a criminal conviction appears to be the standard.
... Which is why so many states didn't dare keep Trump off the ballot.
#27 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Once again, for the folks in the waaaaay back:

It does not "appear" that criminal conviction is the standard. SCOTUS didnt say that. No court to consider the question has ever said that. None of the administrative bodies considering the question have ever said that. Dismissals have been based on standing, ripeness (he's not imminently "holding office" yet), and the SCOTUS ruling that individual states cannot enforce 14a3 as to federal candidates. The "conviction" standard is something rightwingers made up and you appear to have improperly internalized as valid.

#35 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-20 10:16 AM | Reply

34

My point is that a conviction would have changed the outcome. The lack of a conviction, although not required, would have been the standard or a threshold crossed that kept state after state from taking him off the ballot.

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2024-03-20 10:19 AM | Reply

My point is that a conviction would have changed the outcome.

No, it literally would not have. SCOTUS said states cannot enforce 14a3, period. If a state has no power to do something, the facts underlying that thing are irrelevant.

#37 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-20 10:22 AM | Reply

My bad. I didn't mean to take it down that road.

The ultimate decision by the SCOTUS was the "outcome".

Right or wrong, I should have just said that more states would have attempted to keep trump off the ballot had there been a conviction. That's a prediction on my part but I believe it would have emboldened more state authorities to take the steps taken by Colorado for example.

#38 | Posted by eberly at 2024-03-20 10:28 AM | Reply

#38 Fair enough. Were he actually convicted, he could be imprisoned up to 10 years, which might have reduced motivation to file ballot challenges in the first place.

#39 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-20 10:37 AM | Reply

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