"There oughta be a law."
There is. Not that the law matters to a Convicted Felon.

#12 | Posted by donnerboy

No there isn't

The president is immune

People need to get their brains around that fact

And he can pardon anyone he wants

The system we have created is pretty amazing when you think about it

People need to understand something very very basic

Our system of governance is no longer what it was

It was a system based on the rule of law with numerous unspoken agreements on what people should and should not do.

That is no longer the case

Prior to the trump SC decision there was at least the concept that a president could be held accountable, thus restraining his actions a little bit

Shame, if nothing else, would prevent the worst of the abuses

That simply no longer applies.

Our SC in all its infinite wisdom said a president cannot break the law

Yes, yes, supposedly limited to core functions.

But in reality, core functions means whatever the ---- the president wants it to mean

Well Mr. Truthhurts sir, you say, his co-conspirators would never, ever break the law because THEY would be held accountable

And I shake my head and say oh, naive sweet summer child. There is a thing called pardon.

We, in our infinite wisdom (or is it folly) gave the president unquestionable pardon power

So, think about it, pardon power-core presidential power.

He can pardon whoever he wants for whatever reason he wants including accepting obvious quid pro quo bribes for pardons

He has done that, repeatedly

He has blanket pardon THOUSANDS of criminals who committed the worst crimes our democracy could suffer-insurrection

There is little doubt this man will pardon more thousands on his way out the door preventing thousands more from receiving justice

These are the facts of a nation no longer ruled by law but by the whims of one person

So, when people say that is illegal, they naively miss the point

When the president does it, it isn't illegal

Not by him or anyone he will pardon

This is what the SC has created.

It is literally the opposite of what we fought our revolution over

So, once again, I must sincerely, from the bottom of my heart thank magat scum for what you have done to this country that I love(d)

No there isn't

The president is immune
That's beside the point. The Presidents so called "immunity" does not negate the law.
The president may be immune ATM (a discussion for another thread) but none of the government employees who worked on this are immune from being prosecuted for violating the Hatch Act.
So yes there is a law. It's called the Hatch Act.
There are also appropriation laws.
"No part of any appropriation contained in this Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes not authorized by the Congress."
The GAO Legal Principles (that interpret this law) classify prohibited government media into three distinct types: self-aggrandizement (puffery), purely partisan material, and covert propaganda.
Under the current Congress accountability is not here. But accountability is coming.

#16 | Posted by donnerboy

I'm sorry donnerboy but you are wrong.

We can have a discussion on the immunity decision, but since it is a SC decision it will (most likely) take an amendment to overturn.

You seem to ignore the pardon power

You seem to ignore a DoJ that is no longer apolitical

There is little incentive to investigate let alone prosecute people in this circumstance.

the president CAN withhold spending. The act of spending (not appropriating) is a core function. President cannot break the law regarding impoundment.

People don't understand that fact

Even without a political DoJ what incentive do they have to pursue any crime committed by the Executive?

If even if the dems overcome the longshot and take either the house or the senate, in what world do you envision the Piggy white house to work with them? They will ignore all subpeonas, they will refuse to testify, Piggy will drag it out and pardon anyone even threatened with prosecution.

No, donner, we are well and truly ------

We no longer live in a representative democracy, we live in a dictatorship

"And he can pardon anyone he wants"
And he most likely will. Assuming he makes it to the bitter end of his Presidency.
And I'm sure that will work out great for republicans. Like the J6 pardons have done for them.
Just ask them about J6 and watch them run for the elevators .

#18 | Posted by donnerboy

In what way have republicans paid a price for the j6 pardons?

I fully expect massive election interference in November, the election officials in many states refusing to certify and Johnson refusing to sit even more representatives

You think a texas election official will certify a Tallarico win?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

But there is a law and Trumpy violated it. And every government employee who works in these campaign ads violated those laws.
And I'm not ignoring the threat of pardons. I say indict them anyway and MAKE him pardon them. Holding Trumpy and his co-conspirators accountable is for another Congress. Not this one.
No, donner, we are well and truly ------
I get it. It feels hopeless sometimes. Because we are in the middle of HISTORY and hard to see how this will end. And using history as a guide it won't end well for the fascists.
I have been in battles before when it feels like I am losing the fight and the thing is ... sometimes it does feel like you are losing because you cannot tell from where you are. And you WILL lose if you give up things when the going gets tough. Then you push thru and win. Because you didn't give up. So don't give up. Our Democracy WILL prevail over fascism in the end. It just won't prevail as fast or like we wish it would.
Don't let them decide what America will be.
Anyway the fight has barely begun (Dems currently have no power) so don't give up now! The midterms are here and accountability IS coming. I expect it to be at least a bit painful for the Americans who participated in and supported the Great American FAFO. It will be painful for all of us to watch.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy

Couple of nitpicks

I don't believe Piggy can violate a law related to his core duties. Absolute immunity is, effectively, that condition

You say indict anyway. Who exactly will indict? Certainly not Piggy's DOJ. So, we are talking 2027, at the earliest. So, effectively immune

Fascists haven't always lost, plenty of nations today have fascist governments (Russia, Turkey, Iran, ---- even China) so to say that it won't end well for them is naive

Honestly it is hard to give 2 ----s when my vote has counted exactly nothing in federal elections since 1984 when I voted for the first time. to say nothing of the fact that democrats are more and more not representing my interests or desires for this country.

I think you are way to naive about accountability AND about the willingness of republicans to cheat and steal and dems lack of capacity to challenge them effectively

I am more and more hoping and praying for a depression. Maybe, just possibly, that will cure Americans of their ignorance and venality

Truth,

If you listened to the Jack Smith hearings today (I did) you would have seen and heard democrats ready to, dare I say, FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
#23 | Posted by donnerboy

You mean the special prosecutor who couldn't put piggy in jail?

That failure?

(Dems currently have no power)

I'll give you an example Donner

Last October and November the government was shut down and people were blaming republicans.

Instead of continuing to fight, dems surrendered because they didn't want to disrupt American's travel over Thanksgiving.

Americans were ready to suffer, we were ready to help each other out through the shut down.

Instead Dems caved

For what did they cave?

A meaningless promise to vote on medicaid funding.

How did that work out? We ended up in a war that will destroy the world's economy

Maybe they should have asked the people to sacrifice a little for a month or 2 and pressured the republicans to impeach and remove from office the most corrupt piece of ---- to ever hold public office in America.

Nah that promise of a vote was good too

And trust me this coming November will not be the blue wave people envision.

I was a little shocked to hear that the best the dems could expect was to pickup 5 to 15 seats in the house (gerrymandering and all)

LOL

Piggy as president and a war that will end civilizations and that is the best we can even hope for?

So, no, color me not impressed with a blue wave coming

cause, if you think the republicans will allow a thing like having few votes get in the way of them retaining power, well I just can't

And again, republicans are acting like they know the fix is in

THAT should tell you something.

The list of people I blame for piggy is not limited to Jack Smith or Garland or Biden. The people are much to blame.

My honest belief is we need another violent bloody civil war or a massive economic collapse, likely leading to break up of the country

Magat scum red states are irredeemable, that is a simple fact

They have chosen ignorant religious myths and regressive political systems over logic and ethics

The list of facts that run in the face of their beliefs is mind boggling. They always pick the worst possible political outcome for us. They refuse, absolutely, stubbornly refuse to see what the root cause of their problems are. It i past time to cut them loose and let them starve to death.

I, for one, am sick and tired of paying for their healthcare and basic standard of living. Of underwriting their hateful ideology. They want ignorance, let them and let them eat dirt

They have gained enough power over our country to prevent the majority of people's wishes to be enacted and it is time for that to end.

I have always held Lincoln as our greatest president, but I have begun to think winning the civil war was the absolute worst scenario in the long run. We could have a successful and prosperous nation with a failed state on our border instead of the leviathan on the path to self-immolation we are currently.

Anyone who voted for Piggy in 2024 is truly an evil turd.

I have been wrong before but I still have faith in the American People to, after trying every else, they will finally vote to do the right thing. As for them refusing to accept the results of the mid term elections or refusing to seat the elected representatives. I hope they do. That would be a perfect storm.
But, we'll see.

#28 | Posted by donnerboy

I am sorry Donner but you are wrong soo so wrong. Americans for the past 46 years have chosen poorly time and time again. the fact we have lasted this long is due to the underlying strength of our country following WW2, of the inherent strength of a multi-cultural democracy

But that is over, we are dying as a country because the regressive conservative movement has been allowed to fester for too long. they have spent decades preparing for this moment and their revolution is nearly complete. We are one significant tragedy away from the complete overthrow of democracy and the institution of a monarchal style leadership.

People don't understand that these people, fundamentally, do not believe in equality, do not believe in democracy, they are supremacists. they believe, to their core, that the common man should be ruled by an elite, that democracy is anathema to the human condition.

They have spent decades preparing the ground for this moment when all of the progress of the past 175 years can be thrown out. This is what they want. The majority of these magat scum are ignorant immoral ----- lead by evil oligarchs.

And the countervailing forces are too weak to do anything about it. We should have been demanding Piggys impeachment, we should have had general strikes across the land for weeks on end. We should be resisting these fascists.

Instead, we get No Kings koombayahs Yay us!

That'll show em

VOTE HARDER!!

THAT"ll show em

Meanwhile they have made Piggy a king and expect him to relinquish power.

Americans are morally bankrupt

And we deserve to suffer

I will be here come november to say I told you so

I disagree, I think we are nearer to collapse then many realize. Yes the pre-civil war time was bad, very bad, but there was cohesion even with the massive immigration and westward expansion on the horizon and despite the pain, the confederacy was never going to win.

We are at a point of collapse and the cohesive force is no longer there and 40trillion in debt and the world on the edge of the abyss does not speak to long term stability

People don't understand how dangerous the Iran war actually is and the dangers it both possesses and magnifies.

We are on the cusp of a massive economic disruption. Iran is thrusting itself into world power. We are bankrupting ourselves

People need to understand that our economy, our way of life relies on our government's ability to borrow money.

That relies on the dollar being the world's currency and the bargain we have made with most of the world, where we provide defense and they provide economic support including and most importantly buying our debt.

That is collapsing between Piggy's insane tariff policies, threats against allies and the utter embarrassment that the Iran war is.

The Iran war has shown, with indisputable evidence that America no longer has the military capability to protect our interests.

that is a massive sea change.

We can no longer project power.

Our bases, which until last winter were symbols of America's ability to project power wherever we chose, our now albatrosses, targets for cheap drones and missiles

Despite spending trillions our military is showing itself completely and utterly unprepared for modern warfare. Our enemies and allies are taking notes

And we have a Sec. of Def obsessed with testosterone, DEI and beards and NOT transforming the military to what it needs to be-securing the resources (i.e. rare earth metals) and developing weapons and strategies to fight this new war.

Our free market capitalist society is perfectly structured to cause our demise. Our military does not serve the nation's interest, but is driven by profits from a few industries. Their incentive is not to protect America but to generate profits, which means more complicated and expensive weapon systems. Systems which the Iran war have shown to be both useless and too little and all our country can do is double down on those systems, even though we are at China's whim on whether they will allow America to buy sufficient resources to build these systems.

So, with an unwinnable war, with a world wide oil market now controlled, in large part by a nation we are at war with, prices are skyrocketing. the markets are beginning to see this and long term rates are rising and there is NO PLAN to reverse that trend. There is no plan to lower global prices, which means energy and fertilizer prices will continue to rise, meaning the interest rates will rise because of the uncertainty of this economic hit. And as that interest rate increase so does our debt and we are quickly approaching a time when our debt will not be purchased, simply not purchased

I think most of the world is afraid of that happening and are buying it but soon it will become unsustainable.

And remember, Piggy has lost this war, there is NOTHING we can do to change that fact and after the election he will accelerate the war, he is holding off now to avoid yet another price shock before the election. But rest assured between the election and January the war will get really hot and I think there is a very good chance he uses a nuke or at least tries to. There are a host of reasons why he would during that time period.

But even with out a nuke, prices will continue to be out of our control, they are subject to Iran's control of the strait. the world will adjust to that toll, but Piggy needs to surrender, which he won't so the uncertainty will continue.

And the above doesn't touch on a couple of other major factors, the physical and actual disruption and shortages the war is causing AND the coming famine from the loss of fertilizer during 2 growing seasons. Many in the 3rd world will pay for this war with starvation, which will cause migration, which will cause unrest (unrest that will make what Europe saw in the 10's to be nothing).

We are depriving much of the 3rd world and many of our allies to simply not have fuel for their economies and we are seriously disrupting an incredibly fragile food growth and distribution network to poor countries.

No, the future does not look bright and dems maybe taking the house won't change that

And as an aside, the democratic party supports an evil genocide committing regime in Israel, without condition

That is gross and for many, including me, is a deciding issue. I, for one, will not support any candidate that supports giving any money or weapons to Israel.

So, yeah, don't be surprised on election night.